RCCL Pricing

[DON M.]

Ok, but the bottom line is that RCI is not at fault that the only time teachers have to travel is the highest priced/ high demand season ( summer). Hey, our cruise to Bermuda in July '01 from NYC cost more than out 10 day cruise to Hawaii this past Christmas (and airfare was included)!:eek:

 

It is not that pricing has increased all that much as much as the big discounting is gone. On our trip to Alaska our agent got a price for us that was outrageously low. No matter who we talked to on the cruise no one had a price so good. So does that mean the prices were different? NO it was the discount we got. The company we used had a high volume discount.

For whatever reasons it still depends on the cruise. If I booked our July cruise now instead of last June, even with the "big discounts" received now, the same cruise would cost 25% more regardless who I booked it with. RCL has raised prices in the last 6 months, maybe not on every cruise but on many.

[beachchick]

Sorry, but I've got to take us OT again for a minute.

 

Teachers don't go to college for 4 years; they get a 4-year degree, then do a 5th year, and then do student teaching. All teachers are required to take continuing education every year. Do you do this in your job?

 

Teachers' salaries in San Francisco or Santa Barbara (an extremely pricey city) are really not much higher than anywhere else. Starting salaries in some areas are more like $25,000-$30,000. And what other high-education career do you know where $60k as a maximum after working for 15 years or more would be considered "high"? Engineering? The law? Medicine? I don't think so. Oh, and to get that $60k, most teachers need at least a Master's Degree. Are you honestly comparing a customer service rep to a teacher? That's definitely apples and oranges. And who they are or who they are supporting is irrelevant to the discussion. That goes back to "men with families should make more than single women for doing the same job"--I hope we have moved or at least are moving beyond that little stereotype.

 

Yes, there are some bad teachers with tenure, but tenure is the only way to ensure that good teachers don't lose their jobs because some parent just will not hear that their little darling is not perfect and needs help or discipline. Those parents, and believe me they are legion, go to the principal or school board and demand that the teacher be disciplined or fired rather than admitting that their child could be the problem.

 

I think some people see only what they want to see when it comes to teachers--if you don't see someone working, they must not be. Yes, teachers get more time off overall than most professions. But they don't get paid for it and much of their work is done out of the public eye, so to speak. If you go to your child's school activities, take a look around at how many teachers are there. Do you think they are there for fun? No, they are there to chaperone or assist (in other words, work).

 

Okay, I know that I won't change most people's minds. The only way to know what teaching is really like is to be a teacher or live with one.

 

Off my soapbox; back to our regularly scheduled pricing discussion.

 

beachchick

[xpcdoojk]

Sorry, but I've got to take us OT again for a minute.

 

Teachers don't go to college for 4 years; they get a 4-year degree, then do a 5th year, and then do student teaching. All teachers are required to take continuing education every year. Do you do this in your job?

 

Teachers' salaries in San Francisco or Santa Barbara (an extremely pricey city) are really not much higher than anywhere else. Starting salaries in some areas are more like $25,000-$30,000. And what other high-education career do you know where $60k as a maximum after working for 15 years or more would be considered "high"? Engineering? The law? Medicine? I don't think so. Oh, and to get that $60k, most teachers need at least a Master's Degree. Are you honestly comparing a customer service rep to a teacher? That's definitely apples and oranges. And who they are or who they are supporting is irrelevant to the discussion. That goes back to "men with families should make more than single women for doing the same job"--I hope we have moved or at least are moving beyond that little stereotype.

 

Yes, there are some bad teachers with tenure, but tenure is the only way to ensure that good teachers don't lose their jobs because some parent just will not hear that their little darling is not perfect and needs help or discipline. Those parents, and believe me they are legion, go to the principal or school board and demand that the teacher be disciplined or fired rather than admitting that their child could be the problem.

 

I think some people see only what they want to see when it comes to teachers--if you don't see someone working, they must not be. Yes, teachers get more time off overall than most professions. But they don't get paid for it and much of their work is done out of the public eye, so to speak. If you go to your child's school activities, take a look around at how many teachers are there. Do you think they are there for fun? No, they are there to chaperone or assist (in other words, work).

 

Okay, I know that I won't change most people's minds. The only way to know what teaching is really like is to be a teacher or live with one.

 

Off my soapbox; back to our regularly scheduled pricing discussion.

 

beachchick

Aww, here we go.... I really don't think I have unfairly generalized. Please don't internalize. :eek: There are great teachers, not great teachers and bad teachers. Just as there are with every profession. The OP was complaining about a fallacy. Then they complained that they could not afford to take two cruises because of RCI. Many people in all professions can not afford to take two cruises a year. I feel that many of those people are just as deserving of my respect as that of a teacher. We all make choices, we are all capable of making new choices. Is there a single profession that uses guilt on the rest of society in order to get our tax money than the teaching profession?:D I think teachers perform an absolute crucial element of our society. So do trash collectors. ;) Peace to all, and have a happy thanksgiving, and trust me I do appreciate all that teachers do. :cool: No, I don't envy them their tasks, nor do I trivialize them.

 

jc

[lovetocruiserccl]

Of course, it is a bad stereotype, but nobody held a gun to any teachers head and said you must be a teacher. I do hope you are not going to try to convince me that as a group that teachers don't get more time off from work than most working Americans.:confused: ;) I know it is tough getting a couple of weeks off at Christmas every year, and then getting spring break off, and whatever pittance of time off in the summer. I don't mean to be mean, but come on. There is an upside to not being able to afford two cruises a year! :p

 

jc

 

Since, teaching is probably the number 1 profession the USA, I am going to be getting hammered, here! :D

 

Yes you are. Teachers are not the number 1 profession in the United States society has it set up that sports figures and entertainers are. I'm not trying to take anything away from them. But teachers and educational staff have to put up with a lot of drama in their lives. We have to be responsible for children that are not our own. We are held responsible for their learning or lack of. No Child Left Behind. We have to fear what the day brings. Will we survive the day. Who will be killed today. Let's not talk about special education. Live a day in my shoes. We need the time we have for mental health.

 

You have no idea of what a educator has to deal with on a daily basis. So if we do get a few extra days off to take a vacation we have to save hard for it. If you took a poll today ask how many teachers have two jobs you would be overwhelmed. Then you have to take in consideration that just because you take two cruises a year we are not staying in the royal suite.

Ever hear of a inside cabin. As my students say "You don't have Bling-Bling.

(cash, cars, gold and diamonds)

 

So I take a seven day cruise once a year. I work two jobs and summer school so I can have seven days out of a year to do nothing but me. Don't assume all teachers are rich. We are not.

 

To all educators try to go on every cruise you can to relax, breath, and clear your head because we have to educate the next sports figure or entertainer.

[bUU]

lovetocruiserccl: I am sure it wasn't your intent, but please recognize that you have left your assertions hanging in such a way that someone could reasonably infer that choosing the teaching profession is conceptually masochistic. The teachers I've met are very intelligent people, and don't seem to be the type to choose a profession that is patently and unambiguously less rewarding overall than the alternatives available to them.

 

I'm not really sure I see the point of all this discussion about teachers, in the context of cruise pricing. Many folks in many professions find themselves in challenging personal situations. Probably the best example are ER nurses! Relatively low-paid, as compared to the amount of training necessary and the difficulty of the work. A high-risk work-environment, both medically and from a violent crime standpoint. And don't get me started about our troops in Iraq, some making less than $15K per year, for putting their lives on the line for us. I don't see any relevance to any of that to the issue of pricing for non-essentials like vacations.

[lovetocruiserccl]

That was not my point. My point was that individuals assume that teachers make a ton of money. And we are not comparing the war because being ex military (Desert Storm) that has no place in this discussion. I know about the military being from a military family. My response was from the shoes I walk in everyday. And how I feel.

 

It was the fact that we do work hard in our profession and not comparing it to anyone one else the nurse, the doctor, or the janitor at the school.

The topic was vacation time. We deserve it and what we do with it is up to us. That fact of the matter is when cruises are available to us the prices are higher. Christmas, Springbreak and July And August. And if we want to go we have to pay the price.

 

Peace, Love and Happiness

Everyone have a Wonderful, Blessed and safe Thanksgiving.

[bUU]

My point was that war, nursing and teaching have nothing to do with this discussion (of pricing). I'm not sure I made that clear enough.

 

I cannot imagine anyone suggesting that teachers make a ton of money. I have to agree with your incredulousness in that regard, but I'm not sure I understand precisely which poster actually suggested that.

[DON M.]

My point was that war, nursing and teaching have nothing to do with this discussion (of pricing). I'm not sure I made that clear enough.

 

I cannot imagine anyone suggesting that teachers make a ton of money. I have to agree with your incredulousness in that regard, but I'm not sure I understand precisely which poster actually suggested that.

It was suggested by XPCDOOJK, a person who believes teachers make to much,have to much time off, and took this issue to where it is now.

[DON M.]

Sorry, but I've got to take us OT again for a minute.

 

Teachers don't go to college for 4 years; they get a 4-year degree, then do a 5th year, and then do student teaching. All teachers are required to take continuing education every year. Do you do this in your job?

 

Teachers' salaries in San Francisco or Santa Barbara (an extremely pricey city) are really not much higher than anywhere else. Starting salaries in some areas are more like $25,000-$30,000. And what other high-education career do you know where $60k as a maximum after working for 15 years or more would be considered "high"? Engineering? The law? Medicine? I don't think so. Oh, and to get that $60k, most teachers need at least a Master's Degree. Are you honestly comparing a customer service rep to a teacher? That's definitely apples and oranges. And who they are or who they are supporting is irrelevant to the discussion. That goes back to "men with families should make more than single women for doing the same job"--I hope we have moved or at least are moving beyond that little stereotype.

 

Yes, there are some bad teachers with tenure, but tenure is the only way to ensure that good teachers don't lose their jobs because some parent just will not hear that their little darling is not perfect and needs help or discipline. Those parents, and believe me they are legion, go to the principal or school board and demand that the teacher be disciplined or fired rather than admitting that their child could be the problem.

 

I think some people see only what they want to see when it comes to teachers--if you don't see someone working, they must not be. Yes, teachers get more time off overall than most professions. But they don't get paid for it and much of their work is done out of the public eye, so to speak. If you go to your child's school activities, take a look around at how many teachers are there. Do you think they are there for fun? No, they are there to chaperone or assist (in other words, work).

 

Okay, I know that I won't change most people's minds. The only way to know what teaching is really like is to be a teacher or live with one.

 

Off my soapbox; back to our regularly scheduled pricing discussion.

 

beachchick

I have been reading the various discussions about

teachers. I am Don M.'s wife. I've taught for more than 28 years. We need

a break for mental health reasons. We work more than 8hours per day.

Grading papers and planning at home for an extra 15 hours or more per week. Beachchick, no matter what we say, there will always be those

individuals who believe what they do is always harder and more important

than what teachers do.

[bUU]

It was suggested by XPCDOOJK, a person who believes teachers make to much,have to much time off, and took this issue to where it is now.

I agree that that is shocking. I wouldn't have known, though, because I don't see his messages. Thanks for filling me in.

[ssantow]

I would have never guessed from the topic of this thread that it was all about teachers and how much they make ...etc

[xpcdoojk]

Funny, Bicker if you want to have a clue you need to read all of the messages, because either Don or his lovely wife, have completely mischaracterized what I said, and I don't like it.:mad:

 

So, DonM, why did you do that, if you can't win an discussion on its merits I think blanket misquoting is pretty pathetic.:mad:

 

I do not think teachers are over paid or have too much time off. I do think that they make decisions to become teachers and with decisions there are always consequences. If you feel that you don't like the consequences you have to make more decisions, that is all I have said. Bicker made excellent points about nurses, soldiers and other low pay professions. Surely we are not going to try to prove that teachers are more important than these other professions? Do you teach your students that there are consequences for their own decisions, or do you teach them that the world owes them something no matter what they do? :rolleyes: Of course, you don't. So, play fair and don't mischaracterize what others say, and I won't have to consider you an unethical person.:mad:

 

jc

[BADBUOY]

It was suggested by XPCDOOJK, a person who believes teachers make to much,have to much time off, and took this issue to where it is now.

Personally I don't understand what all the fuss is about. Why is it wrong for a person to state a personal opinion on whether a profession makes to much money, gets too much time off etc? If teachers don't think they have it good ..THEN GET OUT and do something else. And if the rest of you think that they are lucky by getting so much time off and if you believe they are all well paid then BECOME A teacher. Quit the whining and get back on topic.:mad:

 

BD

[Robinob]

Exactly, so. Despite announcements to the contrary!:D

 

Yes being a teacher has its drawbacks, and I would feel real sorry for you except that most employees don't get 2 to 3 months off in a row, in order to take a really great vacation. I would love to take the summer off, get in my car, drive all over the country, camp, fish, play for a couple of months. Also, despite not being a teacher I have never been able to take 2 cruises a year. I can manage one nice long vacation a year max. I do take lots of little trips, but big vacation is a one time a year deal!

 

jc;)

 

 

A majority do not get to take off 2-3 months in a row. Most, a great majority, work summer programs to supplement their income. School administrators work during the summer. We , too, would like 2-3 months off.

[Robinob]

Of course, it is a bad stereotype, but nobody held a gun to any teachers head and said you must be a teacher. I do hope you are not going to try to convince me that as a group that teachers don't get more time off from work than most working Americans.:confused: ;) I know it is tough getting a couple of weeks off at Christmas every year, and then getting spring break off, and whatever pittance of time off in the summer. I don't mean to be mean, but come on. There is an upside to not being able to afford two cruises a year! :p

 

jc

 

Since, teaching is probably the number 1 profession the USA, I am going to be getting hammered, here! :D

 

 

Sounds like you are envious. Go back to school and become a teacher!!!!!Then you can make that 35K starting salary, keep 25-30 darlings attentive, deal with crazy parents etc., etc., etc., .....and go on two cruises per year. (I go on one) I never justify my career to anyone. I love what I do and all the teacher bashers should try it!

[BADBUOY]

Sounds like you are envious. Go back to school and become a teacher!!!!!Then you can make that 35K starting salary, keep 25-30 darlings attentive, deal with crazy parents etc., etc., etc., .....and go on two cruises per year. (I go on one) I never justify my career to anyone. I love what I do and all the teacher bashers should try it!

Are you bragging or complaining???

[DON M.]

Funny, Bicker if you want to have a clue you need to read all of the messages, because either Don or his lovely wife, have completely mischaracterized what I said, and I don't like it.:mad:

 

So, DonM, why did you do that, if you can't win an discussion on its merits I think blanket misquoting is pretty pathetic.:mad:

 

I do not think teachers are over paid or have too much time off. I do think that they make decisions to become teachers and with decisions there are always consequences. If you feel that you don't like the consequences you have to make more decisions, that is all I have said. Bicker made excellent points about nurses, soldiers and other low pay professions. Surely we are not going to try to prove that teachers are more important than these other professions? Do you teach your students that there are consequences for their own decisions, or do you teach them that the world owes them something no matter what they do? :rolleyes: Of course, you don't. So, play fair and don't mischaracterize what others say, and I won't have to consider you an unethical person.:mad:

 

jc

First, you admit its a bad sterotype, and then when you get responses saying why it is,you get upset. No one EVER said their teaching job is more important than any other job, everyone including pro basketballs A. Iverson at 7 mil per year believes they are underpaid, its the American way. You referred posters to a web site about U.S. median incomes, you still haven't answered my question has to the point of that.

[xpcdoojk]

First, you admit its a bad sterotype, and then when you get responses saying why it is,you get upset. No one EVER said their teaching job is more important than any other job, everyone including pro basketballs A. Iverson at 7 mil per year believes they are underpaid, its the American way. You referred posters to a web site about U.S. median incomes, you still haven't answered my question has to the point of that.

I would have thought my point was abundantly clear to anyone that read my postings. Until, you quit mischaractarizing what other posters post, however, I feel no compulsion at all to play with you.:mad:

 

Robinob, I am happy that you enjoy your profession. Clearly, not all teachers get all summer off, but again, they get more time off than most working Americans on average, wouldn't you agree. Not everyone, of course. But on average. You do understand averages, because Don M doesn't seem to understand what the median means......:D

 

jc

 

Thanks Buddy for getting my back!:D

[DON M.]

I would have thought my point was abundantly clear to anyone that read my postings. Until, you quit mischaractarizing what other posters post, however, I feel no compulsion at all to play with you.:mad:

 

Robinob, I am happy that you enjoy your profession. Clearly, not all teachers get all summer off, but again, they get more time off than most working Americans on average, wouldn't you agree. Not everyone, of course. But on average. You do understand averages, because Don M doesn't seem to understand what the median means......:D

 

jc

 

Thanks Buddy for getting my back!:D

 

Lets play. I understand median and i also understand it has no relevance to "higher cruise prices in the summer". If you have complaints about your job, I would never say "no one put a gun to your head". Do teachers get alot of unpaid vacation time - yes they do- so what?

[BADBUOY]

I would have thought my point was abundantly clear to anyone that read my postings. Until, you quit mischaractarizing what other posters post, however, I feel no compulsion at all to play with you.:mad:

 

Robinob, I am happy that you enjoy your profession. Clearly, not all teachers get all summer off, but again, they get more time off than most working Americans on average, wouldn't you agree. Not everyone, of course. But on average. You do understand averages, because Don M doesn't seem to understand what the median means......:D

 

jc

 

Thanks Buddy for getting my back!:D

jc - Always looking out for you big guy. ;)

 

Just a question for the teachers - Why are you so defensive when someone mentions that you get more time off then the average American worker? It really comes across as having a chip on your shoulder. I have a good friend that a firefighter on an emergency response team. Often he gets to have an entire night's sleep at the firehall - get's up in the morning and goes to work at his second profession as a carpenter. He's never defensive when it's brought up in fact he's proud of the fact. You folks need to respond to the question in a more positive way highlighting the great work you really do for our kids and communities.

 

Buddy ....oouuuttttt ...for the weekend.

[Robinob]

jc - Always looking out for you big guy. ;)

 

Just a question for the teachers - Why are you so defensive when someone mentions that you get more time off then the average American worker? It really comes across as having a chip on your shoulder. I have a good friend that a firefighter on an emergency response team. Often he gets to have an entire night's sleep at the firehall - get's up in the morning and goes to work at his second profession as a carpenter. He's never defensive when it's brought up in fact he's proud of the fact. You folks need to respond to the question in a more positive way highlighting the great work you really do for our kids and communities.

 

Buddy ....oouuuttttt ...for the weekend.

 

 

Because we are tired of constantly being berated for our schedules, salary, "easy job", and so on. There are adages about our profession that many would not tolerate in any other career. e.g.. "Those who can, do, those who can't teach", to name one. It is never ending. It is not being defensive simply being tired of all of the ridicule. The only people, that I have come across, that appreciate what I do are those who see it first hand. OK enough of this. I guess attorneys can also go on a rant about the negativity that surrounds their profession.

 

I am cruising on July 15th on VOS. Anyone else?

[DON M.]

jc - Always looking out for you big guy. ;)

 

Just a question for the teachers - Why are you so defensive when someone mentions that you get more time off then the average American worker? It really comes across as having a chip on your shoulder. I have a good friend that a firefighter on an emergency response team. Often he gets to have an entire night's sleep at the firehall - get's up in the morning and goes to work at his second profession as a carpenter. He's never defensive when it's brought up in fact he's proud of the fact. You folks need to respond to the question in a more positive way highlighting the great work you really do for our kids and communities.

 

Buddy ....oouuuttttt ...for the weekend.

To answer your question about teachers and time-off, most get defensive(including my wife) because of the misconception its a 7-4 job, because of perceived "jelousy" and if you read the many posts from teachers, they do talk about the work done for the kids and the communities. Why would anyone even "mention" the time off a teacher gets unless that teacher is complaining, and thats an entirely different issue.

[tmt9367]

Do have any idea how many people don't teach because they know teachers are often underpaid (IMO always--I think good teachers should make 6 figures as a minimum; teaching our children is slightly more important to me than watching someone play basketball) and usually get very little respect? beachchick

 

Beachchick, do the math! Can you imagine what our property taxes would be if most teachers made $100,000 a year!?! How many people would like to see their property taxes triple? Not me, I don't even have any kids!

 

I agree with JC about "no one held a gun to their head" when it comes to being a teacher. I have a BIL and a SIL that are teachers here in Florida and all they do is complain about their wages. Do either one of them get a job during the summer? NO! Why go to college to get a job that doesn't pay well and then complain about it all your life. You knew there wasn't any money in it before college. Take your degree and do something better with it.

 

S

[tmt9367]

Here in Florida, public school kids have to attend school 180 days a year by law. Let's say teachers work 20 days a year when kids are not in class. That's 200 work days a year. Most Americans work 51 weeks a years, 5 days a week on average. That's 255 work days. So by my calculations, teachers are off about 2 months more a year than most Americans. Pretty sweet, huh?? :confused:

 

S

[DON M.]

Beachchick, do the math! Can you imagine what our property taxes would be if most teachers made $100,000 a year!?! How many people would like to see their property taxes triple? Not me, I don't even have any kids!

 

I agree with JC about "no one held a gun to their head" when it comes to being a teacher. I have a BIL and a SIL that are teachers here in Florida and all they do is complain about their wages. Do either one of them get a job during the summer? NO! Why go to college to get a job that doesn't pay well and then complain about it all your life. You knew there wasn't any money in it before college. Take your degree and do something better with it.

 

S

I think you would be hard pressed to find very many people who do not complain about many aspects of their jobs, including salary. When's the last time you heard anyone say "Iam overpaid". I agree, you have to enjoy and take satisfaction in what you do regardless of salary or find something else. Just like when Babe Ruth was asked how he feels about making more than the President, " yes but I had a better year". Can anyone explain how taxi drivers in Las Vegas make more than teachers- no- that's just the way it is, but not to many teachers want to drive taxis.