Corporate mindset: X vs. HAL

[lysolqn]

To me, the CEO's comments are more of a commercial than a business plan. They have to fill these ships with paying customers. I don't think there are many alternatives other than a competitive pricing policy to get people on board.

 

My thoughts exactly! Mr. Hanrahan's statement is much more likely marketing spin than it is a working business plan. A full ship of 2000 pax paying half-price (for argument's sake) generates the same fare revenue as a half full ship of 1000 pax paying full price. Either way, the company is taking a hit and at some point the product will be compromised. The advantage to sending out a full ship of pax paying half-price rests with onboard revenue. If onboard revenue is as important to profitability as we've been led to believe it is during the thirty years we've been cruising, than the more pax you have onboard (regardless of the fare they've paid), the greater the revenue generated onboard should be. Besides which, X doesn't seem to be afraid of hurting "pricing integrity" or adversely affect[ing] the brand image" when it offers its weekly Tuesday "specials" or lowers prices as sail dates approach for ships where unsold berths remain plentiful.

[Veronica13]

In any economy there are two types of consumers - people who are looking for the cheapest price and those who want a very good product at a reasonable price (value).

 

The latter was the key to Celebrity's success in the past because its passengers felt that they got a much best product for a slightly higher price. Then Celebrity decided to expand their share of the market by competing on price, even before the economy slipped, and is now considerably less expensive than most of the other mass market cruise lines. If Celebrity continues to cater to the former, they will be attracting passengers who will literally jump ship whenever a competitor has a lower price. At the same time their traditional passenger base will erode if they feel that the Celebrity product is not what it use to be, and other cruise lines offer a better "value"

 

As bad as the economy is, it will recover, but once a company earns a reputation for cutting corners, it is very hard to turn that image around.

 

With this in mind, I think Celebrity should charge enough so they don't have to cut corners, even if it means not sailing at full capacity.

 

I realize that Celebrity is still more formal than other mass market cruise lines, as well as most of the luxury ones, and for some people that is so important that they will overlook everything else. However, that segment of the market is not as great as one would think from reading these message boards. After all, if it was Celebrity would not need to cut their prices to fill their ships.

 

Exactly what I was trying to say, but put much more nicely:D

I've been cruising 31 years (they didn't have message boards back then - and frankly until I started my own business, didn't have time for them).

 

Bottom line - I have no horse in this race. I "disowned" Celebrity in early 2008. Was no longer my taste. But I WAS a loyal Elite member for over a decade.

 

At this point, I should keep my opinions to myself, since most are Celeb newbies and comment on the lines I WILL be cruising, Oceania and Regent. According to their customer service staff, they are getting "unprecedented" numbers of X X'ers (ha) and are happy to welcome us aboard.

 

BEST TO ALL AND HOPE EVERYONE FINDS WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR.

[richsea]

I have enjoyed sailing Celebrity since before the RCI takeover, but if the passengers on board were anything like some of the snobs that frequent these boards, my first Celebrity cruise would have been my last!

[ocngypz]

In a perfect world perhaps, but that's not what I'm seeing in Celebrity's reservation system.

 

I just did an Infinity Alaska booking.. 11 nights SFO-YVR on a resident rate. Cat FV..........per diem is $110 per day.

 

If that's not firesale, I don't know what is.

 

It's all alot of smoke up one's skirt. Every revenue management deparment is tasked with filling the ship. How they go about it... and on what timeline.. is different.

 

I've seen that Carnival Corp owned lines are much more aggressive in filling their ships.. and filling them earlier. Whereas RCI owned lines are not as aggressive in filling their ships as quickly as possible.....and then have to firesale at the last minute. If you live within driving distance, it works fine. However, if you have to fly (such as Alaska which has an airlift problem)...........it becomes problematic. The other problem with last minute firesales is the per diems are frequently less than the least expensive per diem sold on the competing lines.

 

Revenue management is a very delicate balancing act. Suffice to say.....if you don't get them on the ship......you make zilch.

[cruiseyguy]

Veronica13-You've made similar comments about other lines on their boards (Regent comes to mind). If cruising is no longer up to your standards perhaps a land vacation is in order.

 

In today's economy any businessman who stands on "principle" at the expense of profits will soon be bankrupt. Same holds true for cruise lines that refuse to lower prices to fill their ships because doing so might affect their "image."

[Sky Sweet]

It appears that whenever a mass market cruise lines cuts back on something without serious consequences, the other mass market cruise lines eventually do the same. That is the main reason why all of the mass market cruise lines today are more alike than different. In my opinion, even if Celebrity feels the need to cut corners to compensate for their low prices, they should focus on doing at least one thing significantly better than the other mass market cruise lines to distinguish themselves from their competition.

[cvaty]

 

At this point, I should keep my opinions to myself, since most are Celeb newbies and comment on the lines I WILL be cruising, Oceania and Regent. According to their customer service staff, they are getting "unprecedented" numbers of X X'ers (ha) and are happy to welcome us aboard.

 

BEST TO ALL AND HOPE EVERYONE FINDS WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR.

Counter question,if some of the newbies don´t post anymore are you going to cruise again with Celebrity?!!!

[usha]

Exactly what I was trying to say, but put much more nicely:D

I've been cruising 31 years (they didn't have message boards back then - and frankly until I started my own business, didn't have time for them).

 

Bottom line - I have no horse in this race. I "disowned" Celebrity in early 2008. Was no longer my taste. But I WAS a loyal Elite member for over a decade.

 

At this point, I should keep my opinions to myself, since most are Celeb newbies and comment on the lines I WILL be cruising, Oceania and Regent. According to their customer service staff, they are getting "unprecedented" numbers of X X'ers (ha) and are happy to welcome us aboard.

 

BEST TO ALL AND HOPE EVERYONE FINDS WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING FOR.

I'm curious. Did you "disown" Celebrity primarily for its new smoking policy?

And since, as you say, you have "disowned" Celebrity, why do you continue to post so often on the Celebrity board? Just wondering....:cool:

[emeraldcitycruiser]

And since, as you say, you have "disowned" Celebrity, why do you continue to post so often on the Celebrity board? Just wondering....:cool:

 

I was wondering the same thing!

[Rick-cruiser]

Cruises, on all cruiselines, do seem to have a different passenger “base” than it had several years ago. But I do not think that it has anything to do with the personal income or “class” of the passengers.

When we first began cruising in 1987, taking a cruise at that time was still relatively uncommon. It really wasn’t any more expensive than a good land-based vacation, but it just wasn’t as popular and it hadn’t caught on yet. Whenever somebody asked where we were going on vacation and we said a cruise, their eyes would light up and they wanted to know everything about it.

Because cruising was still uncommon and “special”, it seemed that the passengers recognized this, and their attitudes and behavior onboard reflected that. There was MUCH less complaining and jadedness back then… and everyone seemed to be so much more appreciative and “starry-eyed” – just to be onboard and experiencing these new and exciting things.

Today, there’s a lot more “taking for granted” aboard the ships. Cruises have become much more common, and many people have been on 20 or 30 of them…. or more. The lines at the Customer Relations desk are never-ending with people complaining about this and that… Taking a cruise is not as “special” as it once was, and a lot of people’s behavior onboard reflects that.

So I think when people on these boards complain about the passenger “base” changing, it has more to do with the popularity of cruises themselves, and less to do with the passengers’ income or “class”.

- Rick

[usha]

Today, there’s a lot more “taking for granted” aboard the ships. Cruises have become much more common, and many people have been on 20 or 30 of them…. or more. The lines at the Customer Relations desk are never-ending with people complaining about this and that… Taking a cruise is not as “special” as it once was, and a lot of people’s behavior onboard reflects that.

- Rick

I do see (and hear) a lot more complaining going on during our cruises than ever before. It's really too bad.

I'll tell you what, though. Our next cruise is gonna be my 28th, and I'll still be the giggly, grinning little idiot, jumping up and down, skipping my way up the gangway to the ship!:o

[usha]

This doesn't make RCI's cruise products any worse (or better) than Carnival's. But its pretty evident that RCI 'speaks with forked tongue'.

You mean, "RCI SPEAK with forked tongue".;)

[woodofpine]

Cruises, on all cruiselines, do seem to have a different passenger “base” than it had several years ago. But I do not think that it has anything to do with the personal income or “class” of the passengers.

When we first began cruising in 1987, taking a cruise at that time was still relatively uncommon. It really wasn’t any more expensive than a good land-based vacation, but it just wasn’t as popular and it hadn’t caught on yet. Whenever somebody asked where we were going on vacation and we said a cruise, their eyes would light up and they wanted to know everything about it.

Because cruising was still uncommon and “special”, it seemed that the passengers recognized this, and their attitudes and behavior onboard reflected that. There was MUCH less complaining and jadedness back then… and everyone seemed to be so much more appreciative and “starry-eyed” – just to be onboard and experiencing these new and exciting things.

Today, there’s a lot more “taking for granted” aboard the ships. Cruises have become much more common, and many people have been on 20 or 30 of them…. or more. The lines at the Customer Relations desk are never-ending with people complaining about this and that… Taking a cruise is not as “special” as it once was, and a lot of people’s behavior onboard reflects that.

So I think when people on these boards complain about the passenger “base” changing, it has more to do with the popularity of cruises themselves, and less to do with the passengers’ income or “class”.

- Rick

 

 

This is one of the finest, most nicely expressed, and astute a group of observations that I've seen on CC in a while.

 

With no offense intended to the hosts or forum. The entire notion of being a constant cruise 'critic', with internet information overkill and re-hashed experiences (good,bad, or indifferent) flooding cyberspace, all has to be a factor in the public plucking of the bloom off the rose.

[hubofhockey]

Welcome Ljberkow. I believe you will enjoy your Solstice cruise next summer, although I have never been on that Celebrity ship. Those Med cruises are typically so port intensive that any ship will do. You'll be plumb tuckered out after a day at Florence, Amalfi, Athens, etc.

 

The current economic situation has given us a time where those who can cruise are looking at price and value. Many people are choosing different lines. I have always felt that Celebrity was the best value for what is important to DW and I.

 

FWIW, I sailed on Princess last fall for the first time. Comparable to Celebrity, but different. I suppose you could make a list of 100 items to compare the lines, and find slight differences on 70-80% of those items. Nonetheless I had a great cruise, and a new experience which was great.

The same is true for HAL. Alike, but somewhat different.

 

Enjoy your cuises.:)

 

Thanks KT!!!! I haven't definitely decide on Celebrity yet. My wife has a say in this one. She may want the RCI Voyager of the Seas. But the Solstice ship and itinerary look better to me.

 

I cruise on different lines for different reasons. When the kids were younger, I thought Carnival and RCI were better choices and I have no problem with either line (I would only go on a newer ship on Carnival though). To be honest, price never prevented me from going on a Celebrity cruise. Besides the price, I like the great selection of specialty restaurants on the Solstice. I hope they're good.

 

This one is a special anniversary present for my wife (and me;)) while the kids will be away at camp.

[richsea]

You mean, "RCI SPEAK with forked tongue".;)

 

Ah!!! Jay Silverheels,who played my favorite TV character, Tonto, way back when! Could never figure out why he got knocked out by the bad guys in every episode of the Lone Ranger.

 

And I agree with you regarding the excitement of going on a cruise. There is nothing like the feeling one gets boarding a ship......it's still a thrill!

[Sky Sweet]

Thanks KT!!!! I haven't definitely decide on Celebrity yet. My wife has a say in this one. She may want the RCI Voyager of the Seas. But the Solstice ship and itinerary look better to me.

 

I cruise on different lines for different reasons. When the kids were younger, I thought Carnival and RCI were better choices and I have no problem with either line (I would only go on a newer ship on Carnival though). To be honest, price never prevented me from going on a Celebrity cruise. Besides the price, I like the great selection of specialty restaurants on the Solstice. I hope they're good.

 

This one is a special anniversary present for my wife (and me;)) while the kids will be away at camp.

 

Hi Ljberkow :)

 

Last June my husband and I took a cruise from Barcelona to the Greek Isles/Turkey on Royal Caribbean's Brilliance of the Seas, which was one of our best cruises to date.

 

One of the reasons why we chose that ship over a similar itinerary on Celebrity was that it offered an anytime option dining. If you enjoy late seating, Celebrity's assigned seating will not be a problem for you. However, late seating is too late for us and early seating is too early for a port intensive Mediterranean cruise. With anytime dining we were able to select our dinner time each night based on that day's schedule. At first I was a little bit apprehensive about trying anytime dining, but now I won't consider a port intensive cruise in Europe that does not have that option.

[cruzeluver]

Well I am one of those "newbies" to X that has come along to diminish the experience for all of the loyal X'ers! :p

 

Actually, the reason we have chosen X this time around is not so much about price, but about value and the type of cruise experience we wish to have. This will be cruise number seven for us, and all previous cruises have been great. However, when we started researching this time out, we decided we were willing to pay a little more for a more "refined" level of service, shipboard amenities, food and (for lack of a better word) a less noisy ship.

 

No regrets about past cruises on NCL, RCCL and Carnival, all have been wonderful. we just decided to look for something different. I have no doubt we are going to love the Celebrity experience. Funny, but I am just as excited about cruise number seven as I was about cruise number one.

[Sky Sweet]

I think the main difference between newer cruisers and people who have cruised for a long time is expectations based on their previous experiences at sea.

 

When my husband and I took our first cruise 35 years ago, it was truly an all inclusive vacation, so we are probably more phased by paying extra for things that were once included. On the other hand, if someone always had to pay extra for these things it wouldn't bother them as much.

 

The same is true for the main dining room. When we took our first cruise, it was the only place to eat, so all of the ships resources were devoted to providing a premium dining experience in that venue.

[cvaty]

Veronica 13 – This is probably one of the first times I've responded directly to someone. I try to keep my posts more general – direct responses usually don't turn out well. But I just have to ask a few questions in response to your statements:

 

You seem upset that Celebrity's lowering prices has brought all these 'New people' on Celebrity CC.

Denny

Many people are cruising as well based on a certain itin.

[cpj]

All true. The price cuts started years before the recession, hence my ability to afford CC verandas solo now. I wish they had kept the prices the same, as you say kill over "hidden" sales ripoffs on board and kept the QUALITY.

 

Like you say, chicken and egg....kill quality experience and lose loyality or maintain full ships. Seems like a short term, bad business decision. While it may keep them "afloat" for awhile, what happens when the recesssion ends and they are left with a spoiled rep? IMO

 

In my company, I maintain my premium prices for a premium service. Will I suffer in the short term? Yup. But my loyal clients will still be there when this all shakes out.

How true that is. Celebrity has made some poor long term business decisions lately, and in time it will come back to to haunt them. There discounting like everyone else,and it reflects in there product. They are no better then any other mass market line except for NCL. Im sure the Celebrity defence team will flame this post. I use to love celebrity but they are different today from 10 years ago. I also know the prices are a lot lower today and they have to cut some some corners but do not pretend there as good as they use to be. THANK YOU

[hubofhockey]

Hi Ljberkow :)

 

Last June my husband and I took a cruise from Barcelona to the Greek Isles/Turkey on Royal Caribbean's Brilliance of the Seas, which was one of our best cruises to date.

 

One of the reasons why we chose that ship over a similar itinerary on Celebrity was that it offered an anytime option dining. If you enjoy late seating, Celebrity's assigned seating will not be a problem for you. However, late seating is too late for us and early seating is too early for a port intensive Mediterranean cruise. With anytime dining we were able to select our dinner time each night based on that day's schedule. At first I was a little bit apprehensive about trying anytime dining, but now I won't consider a port intensive cruise in Europe that does not have that option.

 

That certainly is something to consider. But one of the things I like about the Solstice is the several alternative restaurants. Right now, I'm deciding between the Voyager of Seas 7-day Med (Barcelona-Italy-Nice,FR) and 11-day Solstice (Italy-Turkey-Greece). NCL has a similar itinereary to the RCI one. But I have heard that NCL is a love/hate thing and I won't risk that on a huge Med vacation.

 

I don't understand how this will come back to haunt Celebrity if, overall, they have a net increase in revenues and passengers. This isn't about snob appeal. All other lines wish they were as profitable as Carnival, despite what some may actually believe. This is a business and not a social club.

[Veronica13]

I was wondering the same thing!

 

I thought it was obvious. With so much Celeb experience, I try to HELP others with less experience. But I've just finished unsubscribing to my last Celeb thread. Too many gang bangers and I don't need it.

 

Am I done with Celeb? Absolutely!! Do I try to share knowledge when I can? I still do in the real world, but here, no longer.

[Sky Sweet]

That certainly is something to consider. But one of the things I like about the Solstice is the several alternative restaurants. Right now, I'm deciding between the Voyager of Seas 7-day Med (Barcelona-Italy-Nice,FR) and 11-day Solstice (Italy-Turkey-Greece). NCL has a similar itinereary to the RCI one. But I have heard that NCL is a love/hate thing and I won't risk that on a huge Med vacation.

 

I don't understand how this will come back to haunt Celebrity if, overall, they have a net increase in revenues and passengers. This isn't about snob appeal. All other lines wish they were as profitable as Carnival, despite what some may actually believe. This is a business and not a social club.

 

Hi Ljberkow :)

 

Our12 night Mediterranean Cruise on Brilliance of the Seas included Rome, Florence, Naples, Nice, Mykonos, Santorini, Athens, and Ephesus. Based on our experience I would pick the longer itinerary which includes the Greek Isles and Turkey because they were the best parts of our cruise and are much closer to their gateway ports. In fact Santorini, Greece and Ephesus, Turkey were two of our favorite ports from all of our cruises.

 

There is so much to see in Florence and Rome and they are so far from their gateway ports that they are more suited to a land based vacation than a cruise. In fact, I spent almost a week in Rome a number of years ago during a land based vacation and could have easily spent more time there.

 

If you don't mind spending the extra money for a specialty restaurant on most nights, that is a good way to deal with the problem of early seating being too early for port intensive European Cruises. That is what we use to do on port intensive itineraries before we discovered my time dining on Brilliance of the Seas. In fact, as our Mediterranean cruise progressed a number of people who had assigned seating changed it to my time dining.

[Cruise Junky]

Hi Ljberkow :)

 

If you don't mind spending the extra money for a specialty restaurant on most nights, that is a good way to deal with the problem of early seating being too early for port intensive European Cruises. That is what we use to do on port intensive itineraries before we discovered my time dining on Brilliance of the Seas. In fact, as our Mediterranean cruise progressed a number of people who had assigned seating changed it to my time dining.

 

On our Millennium Med. Cruise we only found ourselves making it to the dining room 50% of the time for the exact reasons you stated. It was much easier on Princess with Anytime Dining.

[richsea]

I thought it was obvious. With so much Celeb experience, I try to HELP others with less experience. But I've just finished unsubscribing to my last Celeb thread. Too many gang bangers and I don't need it.

 

Am I done with Celeb? Absolutely!! Do I try to share knowledge when I can? I still do in the real world, but here, no longer.

 

It's not what you say, it's how you say it.