So, What About Mexico Now?

[swalm22]

If this nasty bug create an epidemic it will not stop by Mexico in fact it's allready in Europe ( official today in Spain and UK ) some other countries are still in investigation announce tonight by TV news. If we are lucky, this virus can also die out in a few weeks. People should also be carefull to use all kind of medicine, allway's advice the doctor because by wrong use of medicine it can mutate and that's more dangerous. By the way at this moment there are no medicine against this flu. Wel just I write this reply I hear on the radio it's hanging already a few kilometer from my house.:(

[SonomaDriver]

Swine flu cannot be spread via pork consumption....it's unlikely that folks who are otherwise healthy would catch swine flu at a port call but you never know.

 

The outbreak is not concentrated at the sea ports in Mexico but that could change fast. I'd likely cancel if I could and if you are on-board a ship headed to Mexico, enjoy the on board pool and facilities instead...especially if you are older and/or immunocomprimised.

[mamaofami]

 

The outbreak is not concentrated at the sea ports in Mexico but that could change fast. I'd likely cancel if I could and if you are on-board a ship headed to Mexico, enjoy the on board pool and facilities instead...especially if you are older and/or immunocomprimised.

 

 

All it takes is one passenger or one crew member to get off and bring the flu bug back on board.

[pms4104]

All it takes is one passenger or one crew member to get off and bring the flu bug back on board.

Your computer or this site must have burped ... the post you quoted was not miine but SonomaDriver's. I do agree, however, that all it takes is one sickie to infect untold numbers.

[sail7seas]

If this nasty bug create an epidemic it will not stop by Mexico in fact it's allready in Europe ( official today in Spain and UK ) some other countries are still in investigation announce tonight by TV news. If we are lucky, this virus can also die out in a few weeks. People should also be carefull to use all kind of medicine, allway's advice the doctor because by wrong use of medicine it can mutate and that's more dangerous. By the way at this moment there are no medicine against this flu. Wel just I write this reply I hear on the radio it's hanging already a few kilometer from my house.:(

 

It is true there is no preventative vaccine but there are effective treatments.

 

Both Tamiflu and Relenza are good medicines for this flu. The U.S. govenment stockpiled millions of doses and they are starting to distribute some of the stockpile.

[gentlemancruiser]

We were originally booked on a 5-night cruise which included Cozumel leaving in another week. Thankfully, we canceled some time ago.

 

But it's hard for me to believe that cruiselines will defy the government "suggestion" and continue to include Mexican ports. All we need is ships full of passengers exposed to Swine Flu and arriving back on Florida soil, getting on planes and returning home to dozens of states. The very thought is absolutely insane!!!

 

I can't believe they can't divert to other ports just as they would do with a hurricane threat. Otherwise, they're just asking for trouble.

 

RCL stock was way down today as well. The lower market in general is blamed on this flu scare.

 

Still, I sure hope the cruise lines wise up and stay away from Mexico. If not, an awful lot of people will be asking for their money back.

 

To cancel a cruise, I'm almost certain, would require the cruise line to submit an insurance claim to their insurers to provide for the lost revenue. For a claim to accepted the line would need to have a very strong case to justify the HUGE loss in revenue. A Hurricane has a DEFINITE potential to put both and it's passengers directly into harm, it also affects a smaller region and ships can move around to different ports. When Norovirus reaches a level at which it cannot be controlled, the CDC can demand that the cruise line cancel the sailing until the virus can be controlled.

 

At the moment Mexico does have the most cases and appears to be a base for the flu, however the EU has warned against traveling to the US, should cruise lines stop visiting the US?. At last count according to the CDC there was 40 cases in the US alone.

 

The CDC has not prohibited anyone from traveling to Mexico, US, Canada, Spain or Scotland.

 

It's way too soon for a cruise line to be able to cancel a cruise. You'd also have to consider the ships that are sailing from LAX and SAN, where would they go if they couldn't go to Mexico????? Canada has 6 confirmed cases so you can't be 100% safe here either.

 

There is not enough information about this virus right now, to be able to make changes like you've suggested.

[YXU AC*SE]

What some ppl seem to forget amonst all the drama, angst, and hype, is that influenza (all strains) already kills an annual average of 41,400 US citizens a year. How many cruises ports should we cancel for them?

 

 

 

Source:

American Journal of Epidemiology:Mortality due to Influenza in the United States—An Annualized Regression Approach Using Multiple-Cause Mortality Data

 

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/163/2/181

 

 

Scott.

[AZjohn]

So here is what is going through my head (yes, a dangerous place to be:rolleyes:…lol). I’m scheduled to go to San Carlos, Mexico a week from Friday for a scuba vacation (not a cruise). I haven’t cancelled anything yet and going to wait until more information is uncovered from this whole event before making any change in plans.

What I figure the cruise lines have to be thinking about is what happens if one of their ships who has been in Mexico comes back to the US and has a couple of passengers on it who have this flu? Does the US radio the ship and say “why don’t you anchor a couple of miles off shore and just wait to see how many others on the ship get infected”? Because I got to believe that there is a hibernation period (or whatever you call it) that the disease doesn’t manifest itself for a while (a day or two???), but yet the people walking around with it are contagious and don’t even know it.

This is what I think everyone is concerned about and I got to think the governments are right now trying to figure if containment to the very serious degree is going to be necessary or not. And I don’t think any cruise line will want one of their ships quarantined for any period of time.

John

[sail7seas]

Yup, John. You and I think alike as that is exactly what I was thinking. All it will take is one person coming down with flu. Even though they won't know for sure if it was plain, usual flu of the year of was it swine.

 

 

 

 

What some ppl seem to forget amonst all the drama, angst, and hype, is that influenza (all strains) already kills an annual average of 41,400 US citizens a year. How many cruises ports should we cancel for them?

 

 

 

 

Sure, people die every year from flu without question. But the State Department and Homeland Security don't put out travel adviseries. That is what changed the terms of this whole situation IMO

 

Perhaps it's CYA but what do I know?

Perhaps it will be CYA that will force cruise lines to cancel calls to Mexico. I think if it was the Caribbean vs.west coast of Mexico, they would have already written new itineraries. But, where are they going to take folks on 7 day cruises if they can't go to Mexico?

 

 

[Paul123]

Early days but things are beginning to happen worldwide. Fasten your safety belt and hang onto your hat!

 

Source: Reuters

</SPAN>* Russia, China ban pork imports from Mexico, U.S.

* Six countries also slap on bans from some parts of U.S.

* WHO says no danger of swine flu from contact with pork

* Russia ban also affects U.S. beef, poultry

* Producers worried about hit to consumer demand (Adds comments from Mexico trade group, U.S. pork group, information about impact on U.S. beef and poultry)

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

 

Just some facts beyond the media 'hype'.

 

Population : Mexico (2006 Census / Estimate) : 108 Million.

 

Population : Mexico City / Metro Area (2005) : 19.2 Million.

 

Current Fatalities from the flu in Mexico (as reported 4/27/09): 145

 

Do the math and make a judgement whether or not it will meet your particular 'comfort level'. There's also lot's of 'noise' (and realities, in fact) regarding the drug wars on the border towns. Compound that with a 6.0 earthquake in Mexico City today.

 

Personally, I love Mexico but I'm not a big fan of Mexico City (or any major urban area / tourist trap worldwide for that matter.)

 

I certainly would not be troubled going on a Mexican cruise in the next few weeks (end of the cruise season actually for Mexico / the Caribbean).

HAL will not put you in 'harm's way'.

 

I think with the current 'hubbub' it would be a great time to find some wonderful deals on leisure time activities in Mexico. It's a beautiful counrty that's populated with beautiful people.

 

Be & remain well.

 

Bob:)

[bellebaby]

Most recent (6 p.m.) from Princess:

 

....Six Princess ships are currently scheduled for calls in Mexican ports through next month. In light of the CDC's recent travel health warning for Mexico, we are now reviewing our itinerary options, and further information on changes will be available tomorrow....

 

I suspect we will see this from other lines, including HAL.

 

B

[AZjohn]

Most recent (6 p.m.) from Princess:

 

....Six Princess ships are currently scheduled for calls in Mexican ports through next month. In light of the CDC's recent travel health warning for Mexico, we are now reviewing our itinerary options, and further information on changes will be available tomorrow....

 

I suspect we will see this from other lines, including HAL.

 

B

Yep, still give them 48 hours to come up with a game plan. Trust me, I really hope this whole thing doesn't develope in a "worse case" scenario.

[Nutrioso]

I'm confused because Janet Napolitano of Homeland Security has advised against travel to Mexico. But the CDC does not take that stance. CDC only says to avoid the capital city and to take the usual sanitary precautions. Who to believe? Personally, if I had a cruise to Mexico booked for sailing in the next couple of months, I would continue with my plans. But how do you really know how to make a decision with conflicting advice? ----Penny

[Sundagger]

Here is the latest update from the HAL website:

 

Swine Flu Update - Mexico Cruise Itineraries

April 27, 2009 8:45pm PDT

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a Travel Advisory recommending against non-essential travel to Mexico due to concerns regarding swine flu. Our office and others in the cruise industry are discussing this Advisory with the CDC as it is not exactly clear how and to what extent they intended it to apply to cruises, and in particular cruises already in progress.

 

Under the circumstances, however, Holland America Line has decided to cancel the Tuesday, April 28, call aboard ms Ryndam in Mazatlan. We hope to have clarification from the CDC during the day Tuesday, April 27, at which time we will advise regarding the remaining port calls on ships cruising Mexico.

 

There have been absolutely no reported cases of swine flu on any Holland America Line ship. At Holland America Line, the safety, comfort and security of our guests and crew are our paramount concern.

[5waldos]

Imagine what is happening in the CDC and the State Department and in health departments around the country. They are dealing with an emerging crisis that is changing by the hour across the country and the world. I think they are doing a rather good job of getting out information and if web sites take some time to get caught up to date- imagine what it was like in 1917 when it might take weeks to find out anything. Complaining because things are delayed by several hours seems harsh.

[TMJplus1]

This panic is starting to feel ridiculous. Remember a few years ago when we were all going to die of SARS? If you are traveling/cruising to Mexico in the near future, take all necessary precautions (hand-washing being paramount) and enjoy yourselves. You could very well catch a cold or some other virus while you're down there but, of course, that will not be reported on the national news.

 

Please, let's take a deep breath and THINK and be rational here. If I had a cruise booked to Mexico next week I'd happily take it and would just be very careful to avoid contact with anybody who seemed to have flu symptoms. The cruise industry is already hurting - let's not deal it yet another blow.

[HeatherInFlorida]

To cancel a cruise, I'm almost certain, would require the cruise line to submit an insurance claim to their insurers to provide for the lost revenue. For a claim to accepted the line would need to have a very strong case to justify the HUGE loss in revenue. A Hurricane has a DEFINITE potential to put both and it's passengers directly into harm, it also affects a smaller region and ships can move around to different ports. When Norovirus reaches a level at which it cannot be controlled, the CDC can demand that the cruise line cancel the sailing until the virus can be controlled.

...................... .............

 

I'm not sure why you quoted a post of mine in your post. I have NEVER suggested any cruise line cancel a cruise. I was clear that a port could be switched or eliminated.

 

For the record, bringing 2000 passengers to a port where a flu virus is running rampant and can be contracted simply by someone coughing in your face IS putting passengers directly in harm's way ....

 

This panic is starting to feel ridiculous. Remember a few years ago when we were all going to die of SARS? If you are traveling/cruising to Mexico in the near future, take all necessary precautions (hand-washing being paramount) and enjoy yourselves. ..................

 

While I completely agree with your premise and well remember how everyone went into a panic about SARS, simply washing your hands after visiting Mexico will not be sufficient to avoid this flu. This is a respiratory illness, someone coughs in your face and it's on you. Washing your hands isn't going to do anything.

 

The fact that no passenger has yet become ill on one of HAL's ships means zero. The girls in NY who contracted Swine Flu in Mexico were not ill until they arrived home. But everyone on the plane they returned home on could possibly be infected. These viruses are spread through people traveling on planes.

 

All that said, I do think that as usual the media has over-reacted and are turning this into sense of panic among some where none should exist.

 

But that doesn't mean that cruise lines shouldn't take the simple precaution of diverting their ships to different ports just to be on the safe side.

[MadManOfBethesda]

The CDC has not prohibited anyone from traveling to Mexico, US, Canada, Spain or Scotland.

 

Just as an fyi - the CDC can't prohibit anyone from traveling anywhere at anytime. They merely issue alerts and advisories to recommend what people should or should not do.

[sail7seas]

Don't forget the obvious that some guests will be at higher risk of serious illness than others and some of them are often found on HAL ships..... all ships, all cruise lines. They're the ones with the most time for cruising often. The more senior and retired.

 

 

Each guest has to decide for themselves what risk they are willing to take. There is NO chance at all I would sail to Mexico right now.

 

I'm looking at Nova Scotia as I believe one case has been reported there. If it is isolated, great. I hope so.

 

We are awaiting news this morning near Boston about a young brother and sister who came home from Mexico over the weekend with flu like symptoms. They have been tested for swine and results are yet to be announced. The community they live in is about 40 minutes from my home.

 

How bad this will all get remains to be seen but to bury ones head in the sand and call concerned people alarmist is a bit foolhearty IMO People have died in Mexico in considerable number. To date, it seems the cases in the U.S. have been mile and patients seem to be recovering nicely. No one can promise that will continue.

 

Use good sense and not hysteria but denial is not helpful IMO

[sizzle_sisters]

Washing your hands isn't going to do anything.

 

I'm sorry but that is incorrect information. This virus is able to live on inanimate surfaces. If you touch something that has the virus on it and you touch your nose or mouth, so can infect yourself. Yes, the main mode of transmission is resp droplet in coughing, sneezing etc.

You can read for yourself here

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/key_facts.htm

[fridayeyes]

I will be boarding the Ryndam on Monday for a repo leg sandwiched between Mexican Riviera and Alaska itineraries. There are several pax staying doing the repo segment as a B2B with the cruises on either end.

 

Though I am a tad concerned, I am still going on my cruise. I expect the following.

 

1) I would not be surprised if we were under Code Red even without Noro.

 

2) I will be proactively taking hand sanitizer with me and I will use an abundance of caution.

 

3) I may bring aboard a packet of Lysol or bleach wipes and sanitize my cabin surfaces.

 

Unfortunately, I have been having a devil of a time with asthma this allergy season, so I will probably get the evil eye if I should happen to cough. So note to my fellow cruisers - please don't pitchfork the lady with the inhaler! It's just asthma! Maybe the sea air will clear it out for me. One can always hope

[YXU AC*SE]

Use good sense and not hysteria but denial is not helpful IMO

 

I'm not sure anyone is denying anything. The fact is that already over 41,000 ppl in the US die annually from influenza. According to the CDC, there are 64 laboratory confirmed cases of influenza A/H1N1 infection in the US, and only 18 within Mexico, as confirmed by the Government of Mexico. Contrast that with 37,248 ppl who died in traffic accidents in 2007 per NHTSA (source: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx). The CDC hasn't issued advisories recommending against all non-essential automobile travel?

 

I think our 'if it bleeds, it leads' media culture (and our own media consumption habits) need to take some accountability for contributing to the current state of hysteria.

 

Scott.

[gatour]

One of the other cruiselines (I believe Princess) is going to San Diego and Catalina island instead of its normal Mexican ports.

 

Carnival is supposed to make a decision at 5pm today.

[rubytue]

I'm not sure anyone is denying anything. The fact is that already over 41,000 ppl in the US die annually from influenza. According to the CDC, there are 64 laboratory confirmed cases of influenza A/H1N1 infection in the US, and only 18 within Mexico, as confirmed by the Government of Mexico. Contrast that with 37,248 ppl who died in traffic accidents in 2007 per NHTSA (source: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx). The CDC hasn't issued advisories recommending against all non-essential automobile travel?

Although I don't disagree with you, I don't believe either of these things you talk about (flu or automobiles) have an 8% mortality rate (last I calculated, based on figures from Sunday). Of course, thats the rate seen in Mexico, not the US. Why? No one knows at this point.

 

I've seen some in the thread comparing to the the SARS hysteria. Well, one thing to keep in mind is we, as laymen, have no idea if part of the "hysteria" and travel precautions that surrounded the SARS scare actually contributed to the fact it never turned into a pandemic. Had those measures not be implemented, had people not been made aware, then perhaps it would have gone crazy. No one knows. That said, all indications to those in public health is that this very well could be the pandemic we have been preparing for. Even the WHO raised up to level 4 on the pandemic alert scale.

 

Personally, I do not want to get this, or any, flu. Nor do I want to get norovirus. I've had them both. You feel like a freight train ran over you and its very unplesant, risk of death or not. OTOH, I qualify as immunocompromised due to lymphatic cancer (even though I have been in remission for 5 years :D) and have lung damage from said treatments. Me? I'm not hiding in my house in fear, but you won't see me in Mexico City or near the school in NY, etc.