Route planning info for 2010 - JFK alert (and JetBlue)

[FlyerTalker]

It has been announced that JFK's longest runway (13R/31L) will be completely closed for four months in 2010. The closure is scheduled for March through June, and is part of a rebuilding project.

 

13R is the usual departure runway for flights, especially international ones, and is the scene of the nightly "lineup" as international flights queue up for takeoff. With this closure, there will be significant impacts on system performance at JFK. The FAA and individual airlines have not yet announced any specific actions to mitigate the effects of the closure.

 

My personal take: During that period, I would avoid using JFK as my international gateway. If I had to go through JFK, I'd be sure of having plenty of extra connecting time. Also, if departing JFK, I'd want extra time at a Euro connection point, as flights may very well be delayed arriving at CDG/AMS/FRA/LHR etc.

 

This would also apply to JetBlue flights connecting through JFK - have plenty of time built in.

 

Of course, airlines may start to amend schedules to factor in additional delay times. Still, just a heads-up if you are starting to plan/purchase for 2nd quarter international (or JetBlue) trips.

[NHBob]

Thanks for the warning, FlyerTalker. Having experienced some of the lengthy JFK departure delays during the afternoon/evening departures peak, I shudder to think about what will happen with 13R/31L shut down! I would think it unlikely that 4L/22R can fill the gap, even with favorable winds, although its 11,000 ft+ length should be ok for most departures.

 

Speaking of which, FlyerTalker or somebody, any idea of what percentage of departures need 13R/31L's full 14,000 ft length? Just curious.

 

Guess I should be thankful that since retiring to New England my usual international gateway is Boston Logan, which, by the way, has turned into a pretty nice airport (until it starts to snow!) since completion of their major construction program and with Ted Williams Tunnel connecting the airport with downtown Boston.

 

Bob

[vjmatty]

Thanks for the warning.... we are sailing out of San Juan in April and often fly via Jet Blue through JFK so I appreciate this information.

[AZjohn]

Thanks as always for the info FlyerTalker;)

John

[Nevertoolate]

I have been reading that one runway (the longest, I believe) will be shut down for March, April, May and June of 2010. Makes it difficult for those who already have flights into JFK next year (we are in March).

Does anyone know just which airlines fly from that Runway and has there been any news as to which other airport will take over the excess flights that can't be accommodated on JFK's other runways? Sorry, don't know the runway's number.

Any information will be appreciated.

[FlyerTalker]

THIS THREAD mentioned this closure.

 

There is no "this airline flies from this runway", at JFK or otherwise. Aircraft are assigned runways due to operational considerations, including overall takeoff demand, ground traffic situations, landing operations and other factors. If possible, controllers send planes a short ground distance, mostly to move aircraft out and up as quickly as possible. But that isn't always true.

 

Also, if you have a fully loaded "heavy", you will be usually assigned to the longest operating runways due to takeoff requirements. Wake turbulence issues also come into play.

 

There is no announced plan for "excess" to be offloaded elsewhere. At this point, they are just going to try to fit 10 pounds of "it" into a 5 pound bag. Expect delays.

 

If you are curious, here is a LINK to the airport diagram for JFK. The affected runway is the one that runs vertically on the left side of the diagram (labeled with 13R and 31L at the ends of the dark black lines).

[FlyerTalker]

And for those wondering why it's a four month project, that runway is a bit over 2 and 3/4 miles long!

[Nevertoolate]

FLYERTALK; thanks. We have our reservations with enough time to get from one airport to another if necessary. Hopefully, the only problem will be a flight delay.

[FlyerTalker]

FLYERTALK; thanks. We have our reservations with enough time to get from one airport to another if necessary. Hopefully, the only problem will be a flight delay.

You don't mention your itinerary, so I hope your thought of getting to another airport would only be a connection through LGA vs JFK. No overseas flights from LGA, so you would have to get to EWR which is no picnic from JFK. Belt Parkway to the Verrazano Bridge across Staten Island to the Goethals Bridge to the NJ Turnpike. 40 plus miles.

[fbgd]

And for those wondering why it's a four month project, that runway is a bit over 2 and 3/4 miles long!

 

It's not until you stand on a runway you realise how vast the large ones are. A short distance from where I grew up was a USAF base that became decommissioned whilst we were there. It was 12,000ft long by about 150ft (maybe even 300ft) across. We got to drive down it to visit one of the hangars and despite going 140mph you had no real sensation of speed because all you saw was tarmac in every direction!

 

I also remember seeing the BBC soapumentary 'Airport' about a day in the life of LHR. They followed a group of people who'd resurfaced the south runway in sections during the night when the airfield was closed. There was a great shot of them all vacating the runway with their equipment and in the background you could see all the awaiting aircraft coming in. :D

[vjmatty]

Further confirmation of my decision to pay a few dollars extra to fly CO to SJU next April out of EWR. Partially because I prefer CO and also because it is a nonstop flight, but JFK is so prone to delays I can't even imagine it getting worse :eek:

 

In fact, next August we fly to Hamburg.... while it may be past the scheduled time of construction, I am not going to assume it will be done in time for our trip, at least not from what I have learned over the years about work schedules. Probably another EWR or a BOS flight for me :)

[kenish]

One big factor is weather- just 5-10 knots of tailwind is very critical for an airliner and requires using a different runway. Also there can be a thunderstorm or some other weather issue in the general airport area that shuts down arrivals or departures from certain runways.

 

Something not mentioned is the possibility of passengers being bumped from longhaul flights out of JFK. Even though a flight may be fully capable of using a shorter runway there is a minimum runway length required for safety. If a shorter runway doesn't meet that requirement, fuel and/or passengers have to be left behind. Normally passengers and cargo will be left behind as that is far more economical for the airline than an extra fuel stop.

[scottbee]

Further confirmation of my decision to pay a few dollars extra to fly CO to SJU next April out of EWR. Partially because I prefer CO and also because it is a nonstop flight, but JFK is so prone to delays I can't even imagine it getting worse :eek:

 

In fact, next August we fly to Hamburg.... while it may be past the scheduled time of construction, I am not going to assume it will be done in time for our trip, at least not from what I have learned over the years about work schedules. Probably another EWR or a BOS flight for me :)

 

Bad news for you, EWR is the worst, and JFK the best of the 3 big NY airports, when it comes to delays according to US DOT.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/slideshows/americas-worst-airports-2008/1

 

This website of the FAA has a good link where you can lookup airport delays in [near] real time. http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/nemap.jsp

[vjmatty]

Bad news for you, EWR is the worst, and JFK the best of the 3 big NY airports, when it comes to delays according to US DOT.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/slideshows/americas-worst-airports-2008/1

 

This website of the FAA has a good link where you can lookup airport delays in [near] real time. http://www.fly.faa.gov/flyfaa/nemap.jsp

 

Meh....I've been flying for all of my 41 years and have actually had more problems with JFK, but I guess it's the luck of the draw. I have also flown out of JFK more frequently, so that might be part of it.