"Big U" Update

[Philly Steve]

Now I have been told by a neutral source that the interior of the ship is gutted. Many of the mechanical gubbins have been taken to use on other ships. So redoing this ship will almost be like starting with a pile of steel plates and building a new ship. Doc

 

Been aboard twice during her Philadelphia lay up and Crystal will have a blank canvas for development. Even the cabin walls have been taken down.

 

The addition of upper deck staterooms was a given, even when NCL was looking to return the ship to service. While this may compromise the appearance of the ship, hopefully it would help keep her in service for years to come as it did with France/Norway.

[JimandStan]

Been aboard twice during her Philadelphia lay up and Crystal will have a blank canvas for development. Even the cabin walls have been taken down.

 

I agree, but Norwegian had the ship in that condition also (i.e after the Asbestos abatement) and could not make the math of a return to service work.

[Philly Steve]

Ah, one of my favorite spaces; the movie theater (pic on the right). Thanks for posting! :):)

[rsachek]

I think it is pretty widely accepted at this point that NCL only bought the SSUS (and the Independence) to prevent competition on their inter-Hawaii route under the Jones Act and were never truly serious about a return to service. Of course, NCL America and its predominantly American crew was not exactly a great success and they have now pared down to just one ship. So what is Crsytal's angle that would compel them to spend more than purpose built new construction? Just the nostalgia factor?

[modelman]

Well from others that work at NCL, they actually came up with complete designs to put the ship back into service. The fact that NCL America had teething problems certainly did not help, but they also were designing a ship for 2400 passengers not 800, so that was a completely different animal. They had to be able to fill her at different per diems and make economic sense, Crystal is a different model, so we will see how it works out with them. But truth be told, Tan Sri Lim Kok Thay, has a soft spot for this ship, and wanted it to work with NCL, and now is trying with Crystal.

 

[Philly Steve]

Yes, the upper deck balconies are likely. We saw the same with the France_Norway. But if it leads to new life is it a bad thing? There will be a spirited debate.

[George C]

Just noticed a very large thread on CC on Crystal board on this

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310741

[Philly Steve]

Just noticed a very large thread on CC on Crystal board on this

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2310741

 

It's great to see such an active discussion on that forum.

 

Hoping to retire this thread if Crystal moves ahead with The Grand Plan. :cool:

 

In the meantime, thanks to all who have posted here, keeping the SS United States relevant and yes, that includes those naysayers who felt the ship had no chance at all for a second life.

 

It's not over yet.

[DocF]

It's great to see such an active discussion on that forum.

 

Hoping to retire this thread if Crystal moves ahead with The Grand Plan. :cool:

 

In the meantime, thanks to all who have posted here, keeping the SS United States relevant and yes, that includes those naysayers who felt the ship had no chance at all for a second life.

 

It's not over yet.

 

The most relevant part of all your posts to date is "It's not over yet." I sincerely hope that Crystal decides that there is economic justification to rebuild the United States into a new and functional cruise ship. I hate to see the efforts that the conservancy have put forth be for naught.

 

Doc

[Philly Steve]

Robert Hudson Westover, one of the original proponents to save the ship has a bitter assessment of the new effort..

 

http://rhwestover.blogspot.com/

 

I'm inclined to believe that many said the same thing about the France before her conversion to the Norway. Our first cruise was aboard Norway and despite her different look, I knew I was sailing aboard an historic ship.

[DocF]

Do I detect the smell of very sour grapes in Mr. Westover's blog?

 

I would hope that the United States has a future. It would be a great tribute to my late friend Russ Powell, who did the takeoffs for this ship's construction while he worked at Newport News Shipbuilding.

 

Doc.

[chengkp75]

Do I detect the smell of very sour grapes in Mr. Westover's blog?

 

I would hope that the United States has a future. It would be a great tribute to my late friend Russ Powell, who did the takeoffs for this ship's construction while he worked at Newport News Shipbuilding.

 

Doc.

 

I think that any "sour grapes" on Mr. Westover's part are due to the philosophical differences between the Foundation and the Conservancy. The Foundation fought NCL over whether NCL could remove the power plant from the ship, as the Foundation felt that the power plant was the one feature that made the SSUS historical. This is why I was surprised to see the Conservancy agree to Crystal's plan. I was not aware of the differences in viewpoint between the two organizations. Apparently, the Conservancy is interested in saving the profile (the look) and the name only. I personally feel that the Foundation is correct that the power plant is the historical artifact, but I also know that no one could actually operate the ship with the original power plant.

 

As much of a supporter of the US Merchant Marine as I am, and a quixotic striver for a US cruise industry, I feel much the way Mr. Westover feels, since everything that made the US unique and glamorous has either been stripped out years ago (the interior) or will go with the refurbishment (the power plant). To me, it's like the guy who wants to build the Titanic II. You get a replica.

 

JMHO.

[George C]

Has anyone heard any new updates on SS United States?

[Conte Di Savoia]

Not too much to report other than this link from the SS United States Conservancy posted back in early June: http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/15073-crystal-continues-its-assessment-of-the-ss-united-states.html

Reading between the lines, I think it doesn't sound very hopeful, but that's my mantra...."You can never be too pessimistic". The cost of replacing her engines is likely to be extremely high.

[Philly Steve]

Not too much to report other than this link from the SS United States Conservancy posted back in early June: http://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/15073-crystal-continues-its-assessment-of-the-ss-united-states.html

Reading between the lines, I think it doesn't sound very hopeful, but that's my mantra...."You can never be too pessimistic". The cost of replacing her engines is likely to be extremely high.

 

Yes, the news is not good but the SS United States Conservancy says the fight is NOT over.

 

Crystal Cruises completed its six month study and while it found the hull to be seaworthy, it would cost too much to bring the ship up to modern standards.

 

It's back to "Plan B," which is to move the ship to New York and use her as an education, retail an possible hotel complex. Since we don't know much about that effort which had been ongoing for over a year, it's hard to say if they have to start all over again.

 

First, Norwegian Cruise Line, now Crystal strikes out on returning the ship to service. It's safe to say she will never sail again?

[loubetti]

I could have told Crystal for free what the results of the survey would be in about 5 minutes!

 

For 800 million $ you could build a new one, and even make her an ocean liner, while getting rid of her antiquated power plant. Of course, what about all those balconies you would need to put on? She simply would not be the "Big U". Once she was gutted out, she was done for. She is not the Queen Mary at Long Beach, or the Rotterdam V in Rotterdam. I love the ship, but the clock is ticking, and save for a miracle, Alang or similar awaits her.

 

The time to have saved the Big U was in 1984, before she was auctioned off, and later gutted out. That was her "Queen Mary" moment. It's over now, and we had best get used to it.

 

Anyone want a Big U deck chair? I have mine up for auction at Ebay. ;)

[Philly Steve]

Lou, it's true the latest efforts come twenty years too late for those who dreamed of a return to sea.

 

We have seen so many setbacks but hope is still alive.

 

Good luck with your auction. Big U items are still hot. :cool:

[chengkp75]

Yes, the news is not good but the SS United States Conservancy says the fight is NOT over.

 

Crystal Cruises completed its six month study and while it found the hull to be seaworthy, it would cost too much to bring the ship up to modern standards.

 

It's back to "Plan B," which is to move the ship to New York and use her as an education, retail an possible hotel complex. Since we don't know much about that effort which had been ongoing for over a year, it's hard to say if they have to start all over again.

 

First, Norwegian Cruise Line, now Crystal strikes out on returning the ship to service. It's safe to say she will never sail again?

 

Yes, you can say with 100% certainty that the SSUS will never return to service. Replacing the engineering plant was never the major difficulty, it was what Crystal's team found out: redesigning the stern.

 

While NCL's plan would have involved tremendous cost to change from a 4 screw to 2 screw plant (you can't just remove one set of propellers and seal them off, you need to move the remaining shafts to a more efficient location between the old inner and outer shafts), one thing they did not have to deal with that Crystal does is the SOLAS Safe Return to Port requirements.

 

This, which became effective in 2010, requires two rudders instead of the SSUS's one, and then redesigning of the "cruiser stern" to accommodate these two rudders and associated steering gear, and what effect this redesign of the stern section would have on the hydrodynamics of the hull and propulsion plant.

 

Anyone paying $800 million for 3/4 of a hull for a cruise ship is only going to do it with the express purpose of losing money.

[loubetti]

Also, does anyone realize that Susan Gibbs takes a substantial salary from the SS United States Conservancy? So, guess where some of your donations go?

 

Thus, saving grandpa's legacy while making good money doing it? I would not donate a red cent to this organization.

[Philly Steve]

Yes, you can say with 100% certainty that the SSUS will never return to service. Replacing the engineering plant was never the major difficulty, it was what Crystal's team found out: redesigning the stern.

 

While NCL's plan would have involved tremendous cost to change from a 4 screw to 2 screw plant (you can't just remove one set of propellers and seal them off, you need to move the remaining shafts to a more efficient location between the old inner and outer shafts), one thing they did not have to deal with that Crystal does is the SOLAS Safe Return to Port requirements.

 

This, which became effective in 2010, requires two rudders instead of the SSUS's one, and then redesigning of the "cruiser stern" to accommodate these two rudders and associated steering gear, and what effect this redesign of the stern section would have on the hydrodynamics of the hull and propulsion plant.

 

Anyone paying $800 million for 3/4 of a hull for a cruise ship is only going to do it with the express purpose of losing money.

 

All, very good points. The demands on a redesign of the stern was too much to overcome in returning the ship to service.

[Philly Steve]

Also, does anyone realize that Susan Gibbs takes a substantial salary from the SS United States Conservancy? So, guess where some of your donations go?

 

Thus, saving grandpa's legacy while making good money doing it? I would not donate a red cent to this organization.

 

Yes, people were paid for their service. Susan has been a tireless voice for saving the ship. Every organization needs a point person. Perhaps an all volunteer effort would have failed long ago?

[loubetti]

Well, Steve, the paid one continues to fail also. :(

[George C]

But "she is not dead yet"

[Philly Steve]

Well, Steve, the paid one continues to fail also. :(

 

I guess the paydays will continue, thanks to Crystal. Solid plans for NYC would make it all good. Still hoping.

[Philly Steve]

But "she is not dead yet"

 

It's amazing to think how long the ship has been idle now.

 

I do hope the SS United States Conservancy will re-think Philadelphia as a final home, given the city has a new mayor and administration at City Hall.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Philly Steve