Vancouver (YVR) Saturday Chaos

[ceilidh1]

PD - good points on this gentlemen's rant - after eight years you would think that DHS would be getting better but they seem to be making more work and longer delays the norm - like requiring passports for everyone entering the US - ignorance isn't usually accepted in a court of law as a viable defense but I quess this gentlemen feels it is okay in a security laden world. The Director of Homeland Security Janet N was in Vancouver recently on security matters - wonder how long she waited at the airport or land crossing to get cleared or did she just present a diplomatic one and get waved through. Perhaps if a few more DHS personnel had to use the same system as the rest of us there wouldn't be so many lineups etc.

 

That's my rant for this evening - I am getting sick and tired of having people complain about security delays in Vancouver and YVR because a foreign government has basically said do it or else.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

 

 

Very well said! Yes, the lines are a pain and an inconvenience but, at the end of the day, they are there because the US DHS is trying to keep YOUR country safe! I have the same rant about the pre-clearance at Canada Place (and have mentioned the lines many times on these boards) - it is the DHS that mandates this, not the cruiseline, not the airport, and not Canada. If you want to rant at anyone, try going to those that are responsible...

[SnrCroozer41]

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your trip through YVR, but I'll take the time to explain how it all works, and why it takes a while. Along with a list of addresses to write to;

 

Firstly, a slight correction, the order that it happen is;

 

1. Check In
   
2. US DHS Immigration & Customs
   
3. Security
   
4. Drop Luggage
   
5. You are now in the pre-clearance area of YVR (and contrary to the US DHS sign, you are not in the USA)
   

 

Why? The USA insists that major Canadian airports create an area to pre-clear USA entries, and hold those people in a secure (similar to cargo in bond) area, without access to the rest of the airport. Generally the lineup (#2 above) is the killer, this is the US DHS' C&I line up. The USA often do not provide enough agents; these are USA govt employees over which the airport and Canada have little control. Also, you had to drag your luggage, because the USA DHS insists you have it with you when you're inspected, again something Vancouver has no control over.

 

After that, it's only minimally different from a normal check-in, other than you have to drop your luggage still. I'm surprised that the security lineup took a long time, normally that's very quick as it only needs to deal with the slow pace that the USA DHS clears toward it.

 

 

People to write to;

 

United Airlines (they really ought to know that the lineup is long and suggest a free baggage cart)

(800) 538-2929 or

UNITED AIRLINES

CHICAGO, IL

USA

Department of Homeland Security (slow C&I line)

U.S. Department of Homeland Security

Washington, D.C. 20528

USA

Vancouver Airport Authority (slow security line, or lack of free luggage carts)

YVR

P.O. Box 23750 Airport Postal Outlet

Richmond, B.C. V7B 1Y7

 

 

Couldn't have said it better myself! When people are angry and frustrated it is natural to use a shotgun approach and blame everybody. Reality is that none of this is the fault of the Vancouver Airport Authority (I live in Metro Vancouver). The criticism should rightly be levelled at the USA Govt and its agencies (DHS etc). Vancouver is one of several airports where you can get pre-clearance if heading to the USA. I prefer it at the front end rather than at my USA destination. Vancouver Airport remains top notch!

[Urban trekker]

"Once you got through Customs, the line for security was the worst I have seen in years. We waited over 45 minutes in line to go through security. The reason that it took so long was they were going through many bags and searching people extremely slowly (either they just don't know what they were doing or they were on a work slowdown - every other bag that goes through the xray machine does not then have to be manually searched

 

Nice try - that's not the Airport's problem but the problem of the DHS.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[tetleytea]

Easy to blame DHS, but Canada is who allowed it. Contrary to what DHS think of themselves, Canada is who is in charge when you're on Canadian soil. From my perspective, I really don't care whose fault it is anyway. If Vancouver is an awful airport at this, then Vancouver is an awful airport at this. Personally my beef is with Denver, but that's just me.

[dadinatorl]

Customs people were obviously DHS. Security people were NOT DHS, they were some private security outfit.

 

In fact, when going through the whole process, the only DHS employees you actually see are the Customs people.

 

Funny how all the operations DHS runs in the US operate so much smoother than things at the Vancouver Waitport, but some people want to say that all the problems that exist at the Vancouver Waitport are caused by DHS.

 

Makes you think, doesn't it?

[SnrCroozer41]

Easy to blame DHS, but Canada is who allowed it. Contrary to what DHS think of themselves, Canada is who is in charge when you're on Canadian soil. From my perspective, I really don't care whose fault it is anyway. If Vancouver is an awful airport at this, then Vancouver is an awful airport at this. Personally my beef is with Denver, but that's just me.

Actually both governments are equal contributors as the pre-clearance process results from a bi-lateral agreement between USA and Canada so one has to assume that the introduction of pre-clearance at certain Canadian airports is something deemed to be a benefit and desirable for both countries and their citizens who travel between both countries but I know it ain't perfect.

[kittyspite]

We arrive on Sept 19th in Vancouver. Our plane doesn't leave until 3:09pm on Delta. We are taking the city tour with Princess and Princess will drop us off at the Airport at at 12pm. Can we use the EZ check in for this? We are going to go to the Purser's Desk as soon as we embark. It would be great if we could use this feature since Princess will drop us at the airport anyway. Since we are arriving at the Airport 3 hours before the flight, that should be enougj time to get us through customs and security. Also leaving late in the afternoon should give us some leaway. There are 3 ships that come in that day.

 

If we can't use the EZ check in, you can be sure we will get carts to carry our luggage.

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

Smiles........Kitty (Nan)

[gertz]

Lets slow down here I wouldn't blame all this on the homeland security. There is plenty of blame to go around and sounding off to shoot someone is IMO out of line.:eek:

With all due respect to my Vancouver friends and PD you are one of my most respected sources.

I have been through this airport many times and have never been held up extraordinary long by either US or Canadian Customs.

But you are held up by people collecting fees and two sets of customs agencies and on Saturday which is probably their busiest day. Put it all together and it is called wait.

However, to be fair at times FLL will have way more than 4 ships at a time there and you don't find this.

I agree YVR is a world class airport but it no better or worse than a lot of other world class airports.

Jack

for the lovely

[LisaH]

Also be vigilant on getting signed up for EZ check in the first two days of your cruise if you intend to use it. I inquired on embarkation and was told that a form would be dropped in our room.

 

By the afternoon of day 3 I hadn't received it. So I went down to the purser's desk and was told that it had to be in by noon on day 3 and it was a hard deadline. That they had to have everything faxed to the 3rd party that handles EZ check by then with absolutely no exceptions.

 

Fortunately we were on a Monday, were the first one's off the ship and actually received our bags over 3 hours prior the departure of our flight. So we had to wait around until they would let us check in.

 

Oh my gosh - the SAME thing happened to us. And we arrived back on a Monday as well. Now that is the first thing we check when we arrive - go to the purser's desk and inquire about whatever direct luggage service that cruise is offering.

[PennyAgain]

We arrive on Sept 19th in Vancouver. Our plane doesn't leave until 3:09pm on Delta. We are taking the city tour with Princess and Princess will drop us off at the Airport at at 12pm. Can we use the EZ check in for this? We are going to go to the Purser's Desk as soon as we embark. It would be great if we could use this feature since Princess will drop us at the airport anyway. Since we are arriving at the Airport 3 hours before the flight, that should be enougj time to get us through customs and security. Also leaving late in the afternoon should give us some leaway. There are 3 ships that come in that day.

 

If we can't use the EZ check in, you can be sure we will get carts to carry our luggage.

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

Smiles........Kitty (Nan)

 

But that late in the cruise season Nan there won't be huge crowds at the airport.

[kittyspite]

Oh my gosh - the SAME thing happened to us. And we arrived back on a Monday as well. Now that is the first thing we check when we arrive - go to the purser's desk and inquire about whatever direct luggage service that cruise is offering.

 

I have a friend that I visit in Ft. Lauderdale and I come in and leave out of FLL. Sometimes I just go through, but there have been times when I have waited over 1 1/2 to get trhough secruity. One time I had waited in line for over an hour just to check in. They did come around and asked if we had to check luggage and when our flight would leave. I just had carry-on and my plane was due to leave in a hour, so they just checked my through and took me through security and I was at the waiting area with time to spare.

 

Sometimes the San Diego airport is horrible. I always try to be sure I am at the airport at least 3 hours ahead of time.

 

Yes, it is a pain in the butt to have to go through all these lines, however, better safe than sorry later on. I don't know what the solution is, but this is the way it is. Just be prepared when you go to any airport especially if you are in another country.

 

Smiles..........Kitty (Nan)

[LisaH]

I have a friend that I visit in Ft. Lauderdale and I come in and leave out of FLL. Sometimes I just go through, but there have been times when I have waited over 1 1/2 to get trhough secruity. One time I had waited in line for over an hour just to check in. They did come around and asked if we had to check luggage and when our flight would leave. I just had carry-on and my plane was due to leave in a hour, so they just checked my through and took me through security and I was at the waiting area with time to spare.

 

Sometimes the San Diego airport is horrible. I always try to be sure I am at the airport at least 3 hours ahead of time.

 

Yes, it is a pain in the butt to have to go through all these lines, however, better safe than sorry later on. I don't know what the solution is, but this is the way it is. Just be prepared when you go to any airport especially if you are in another country.

 

Smiles..........Kitty (Nan)

 

We flew in and out of FLL on our last cruise and used RCCL's luggage valet - it worked like a champ. We had a long wait at the airport but that is less stressful than worrying about making an early flight - in my opinion.

[kittyspite]

We flew in and out of FLL on our last cruise and used RCCL's luggage valet - it worked like a champ. We had a long wait at the airport but that is less stressful than worrying about making an early flight - in my opinion.

 

I am the same way. We leave for our cruise on Sept 2nd out of San Deigo. Our flight doesn't leave until 10:30am so we don't have to be there unitl around 8am. We will be missing the really busy time of 6-8am. We will arrive in Anchorage at around 5pm and then Princess will take us to the hotel. Our cruise tour doesn't start until the 4th, but we wanted to see some of Anchorage and go to the Native American Herritage Center on the 3rd. I am really looking foward to the cruise tour and cruise. But with all this going on at YVR, I am glad that I read this thread and will be prepared when I get there for a long wait if I am not able to get the EZ check in. Since we get in on Saturday and if we are delayed we still have Sunday to get home.

 

Smiles........Kitty (Nan)

[ceilidh1]

I live in Vancouver and have family in Canada, the UK, and the US - that makes for a LOT of flights out of YVR. When I fly domestic or International, it's a breeze - check in, drop bags, no lines! When I fly US I have learned (the hard way) to ALWAYS get to the airport at least 3 hours before my flight...if this were truly a Canadian/YVR issue then you would experience problems with all destinations, not just to the US.

 

I will also add that I have tried, on occasion, to "cheat" the system when flying to the East Coast of the US. That is, fly domestic out of YVR to Toronto/Montreal and then connect for the US. BAD MOVE!!!!! If you guys think that pre-clearing in YVR is tough, you should try connecting in Toronto or Montreal and pre-clearing there! You have to get off the plane, collect your luggage, and THEN go through DHS customs and immigration - you're pretty much guaranteed to miss your conncecting flight!

 

All that being said, as someone else mentioned - I would much rather do all the lines and waits at the beginning rather than after a long/tiring flight when I land. These days, lines are a part of flying - if you don't like it, don't fly!:D

[kittyspite]

But that late in the cruise season Nan there won't be huge crowds at the airport.

 

Thanks PennyAgain! You always give good advise and I love the information that you have given in your posts. BTW I use to live in Ft. Worth many years ago.:eek:

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)

[LisaH]

I am the same way. We leave for our cruise on Sept 2nd out of San Deigo. Our flight doesn't leave until 10:30am so we don't have to be there unitl around 8am. We will be missing the really busy time of 6-8am. We will arrive in Anchorage at around 5pm and then Princess will take us to the hotel. Our cruise tour doesn't start until the 4th, but we wanted to see some of Anchorage and go to the Native American Herritage Center on the 3rd. I am really looking foward to the cruise tour and cruise. But with all this going on at YVR, I am glad that I read this thread and will be prepared when I get there for a long wait if I am not able to get the EZ check in. Since we get in on Saturday and if we are delayed we still have Sunday to get home.

 

Smiles........Kitty (Nan)

 

You will have a GREAT cruise. We did Alaska in 2007 on the Island Princess with a 3-day land tour first and then the southbound to Vancouver. We had a 1:40 flight out of YVR and did not have US Direct for reasons cited earlier. It took us approx two hours to get through all the various lines - maybe a tad longer. We got to the gate with about 2 1/2 hours to spare which was not too bad. Just make sure to ask for US Direct EARLY!!!

 

Have a GREAT time. :)

[kittyspite]

You will have a GREAT cruise. We did Alaska in 2007 on the Island Princess with a 3-day land tour first and then the southbound to Vancouver. We had a 1:40 flight out of YVR and did not have US Direct for reasons cited earlier. It took us approx two hours to get through all the various lines - maybe a tad longer. We got to the gate with about 2 1/2 hours to spare which was not too bad. Just make sure to ask for US Direct EARLY!!!

 

Have a GREAT time. :)

 

Thanks! Just hope we can get the EZ Check in for our return trip. If not, then I am prepared and we will still get to the airport 3 hours before our flight. Also, as PennyAgain says, we are late in the season so we shouldn't have too much of a problem.

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)

[georoc01]

Thanks! Just hope we can get the EZ Check in for our return trip. If not, then I am prepared and we will still get to the airport 3 hours before our flight. Also, as PennyAgain says, we are late in the season so we shouldn't have too much of a problem.

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)

 

 

I am sure you will too. BTW, getting more than 3 hours prior does you no good as they had someone at the check in that won't let you que up till its 3 hours prior.

[kittyspite]

I am sure you will too. BTW, getting more than 3 hours prior does you no good as they had someone at the check in that won't let you que up till its 3 hours prior.

 

Our plane leaves at 3:09, we will get to the airport at 12pm so that is 3 hours ahead of the flight. So we should be ok to que up. I am just gong to be prepared to wait in line a long time.

 

Smiles........Kitty (Nan)

[dadinatorl]

FYI, when we got there 3 hours ahead of time last Sunday, they just put us on a separate line for about an hour and had us stand there. If someone showed up with an hour until their flight, they just pushed them straight through to Customs.

 

People were complaining that they tell you to come to the airport at least 2 hours in advance and if you follow the rules, they just make you await at the Vancouver Waitport.

 

On the other hand, if you show up an hour before your flight, they push you right through.

 

Everyone was complaining that we were being punished for following the rules.

 

Be prepared for one of the worst airport experiences of your life.

[red knight]

So you stand in line to get through Airline Checkin (Airline Rules not YVR rules) then line up to go through Customs (US DHS Rules not YVR rules) then through Security. The Security people must enforce USDHS rules, so even if they are a private firm checking people and bags it is still not YVR's fault! If I fly from Vancouver to say Montreal, I do not have to take off my shoes yet if I fly to anywhere in the US I do. Same airport differant rules. Our airport bends over backwards to build a nice facility yet it is their fault when you have to abide by US Airline rules and US DHS rules? Can you please explain that to me? Maybe you would prefer about a 3 hour bus trip to Seattle and stand in a lineup there for a couple of hours? Give your heads a shake.

[Snake_Bunny]

Since I will be flying to Toronto after my cruise, will I avoid most of these lineups (e.g. customs)? Or will I be in line for security etc. for just as long as the Americans?

[dadinatorl]

So when I fly back from Meixco and there are these USDHS rules that have to be followed - no problem.

 

and when I fly back from anywhere in teh Carribean and there are these USDHS rules that have to be followed - no problem.

 

and when I fly back from Europe and there are these USDHS rules that have to be followed - no problem.

 

But when I fly back from the Vancouver Waitport, I have the worst possible lines and delays, then it is the fault of the USDHS rules?

 

I loved Vancouver, but I just feel bad that when the Olympics come, the big news story may not be the beautiful games that I am sure will be put on, but may be the monumental delays at the Vancouver Waitport.

[kittyspite]

So you stand in line to get through Airline Checkin (Airline Rules not YVR rules) then line up to go through Customs (US DHS Rules not YVR rules) then through Security. The Security people must enforce USDHS rules, so even if they are a private firm checking people and bags it is still not YVR's fault! If I fly from Vancouver to say Montreal, I do not have to take off my shoes yet if I fly to anywhere in the US I do. Same airport differant rules. Our airport bends over backwards to build a nice facility yet it is their fault when you have to abide by US Airline rules and US DHS rules? Can you please explain that to me? Maybe you would prefer about a 3 hour bus trip to Seattle and stand in a lineup there for a couple of hours? Give your heads a shake.

 

I know that I hate lines, etc., however, I am not going to waste my energy on getting angry becasue of rules, be they US rules or what ever country I am in. Go with the flow, it is much easier on your blood pressure.

 

I remember the first time I flew after 9/11. It was on the 18th of September and I was flying from San Diego to San Francisco. The security lines were unbelievable and they counted every 10 passengers to be searched, even the bags. Well, guess what? I was number 10. Yes, I had to take off my shoes, and be patted down, they asked permission to look in my purse, I said ok, then they asked permission to open my carriy on, (this was before they had women TSA agents) Well, I told the young man yes by all means go ahead, but I packed in a hurry so all my lacy underwear was on top. You never saw someone turn so red in your life. Of course it wasn't on the top, but I had a good laugh. His response to me was that he wished more people were like me and would take it in stride. I just told him, hey, it is for MY safety and other passengers safety.

 

It is just so much easier to just go with the flow, instead of getting all hot and bothered over something you can't change in a heartbeat.

 

I travel extensivly all over the world. Security is here and it will stay here. Yes the US doesn't have that much experience with Security, however, they will learn. I always set the alarm off as I had a hip reolacement in 2004 at a very young age. It always goes off in American Airports, but not in European Airports. I know the drill and just do what I am suppose to do. No big deal.

 

Smiles......Kitty (Nan)

[Urban trekker]

"may be the monumental delays at the Vancouver Waitport"

 

I doubt that the elite US athletes will do any waiting at all - they we be given preferential treatment by the Olympic organizers and USDHS personel - I am sure you wouldn't want to be around the airport when all the metal detectors start going off as those silver and bronze medals have to be scanned - oh I forgot - the gold medals - won't be a problem because us Canadians are laying claim to them.

 

The European and athletics from countries other than the US won't have to wait unless they are flying into US Cities because they don't have to now.

 

And unlike with 6000 cruisers trying to get through customs and security to catch the earliest and in many cases cheapest flights home most of the participants and their supporters will be staggering their departure times and days.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis