BermudaBound2014

Haha.. I was thinking the same thing. It's a a very short puddle jumper flight from Spain to Morocco. Of course, transferring through Johannesburg would offer the most airline miles.

Certainly possible. It's also possible that NCL is not keeping up with the changes. The situation is still quite fluid. I suspect it may have something to do with one of the ports requirements that Jade is visiting, but I can't find any confirmation. I noticed one of the Athens departures stops in Italy, but Italy is also wide open right now (no vaccination or testing required).

I actually thought it may have to do with one of the ports, but it looks like Jade Athens departures visit Israel and Turkey and neither of those require testing or vaccination either. What is your exact itinerary? I can check to see if it's a port requirement. Isreal Effective May 21, 2022, Israel is officially discontinuing all entry requirements, including the requirement for foreign tourists to show proof of vaccination. A passenger locator form is still in effect, but Israel had a version of this form pre-pandemic as well. Turkey New entry as of June 1, 2022 Turkey has removed all their covid-related entry requirements effective June 1, 2022. Masks are also removed in all public indoor places, including public transit, but will stay in place for hospitals.

Except Greece does not require vaccination or testing. Entry Restrictions to Greece Relaxed: As of May 1, 2022, travelers entering Greece are no longer required to display a certificate of vaccination or recovery from COVID-19, or evidence of a negative test result from SARS-CoV-2 infection. https://gr.usembassy.gov/covid-19-information/

Testing is required from the USA only because cruise lines have opted into the CDC guidelines. These too will change. The CLIA called for a review of the CDC requirements 3 weeks ago stating it is unfair to hold cruise lines to different standards. Remember, Cruise lines are Voluntarily operating under the CDC standards. I suspect if change doesn't happen reasonably soon, that too may change. Things are still very fluid in the cruise industry. The Pre-testing rules are costing the cruise industry millions of dollars. When it all shakes out, follow the money. "If money can be the reason why testing and vaccination requirements don't exist in hotels, airplanes, theme parks, concerts, and sporting events, then money should be a viable reason to consider dropping the testing requirement before taking a cruise" https://www.thestreet.com/investing/cruise-lines-call-for-cdc-to-change-covid-testing-policy

It matters. Cruise lines are no where near 'starting to sail at capacity'. Sure there are some cruises on very popular itineraries, sailing at very popular times, which are popularly priced, from popular ports which are being reported as at capacity. For example, Carnival is reporting high occupancy on may of it's summer voyages, while it's other brands are suffering with less than 50% occupancy being reported. But the reality is that the legal filings with the Securities Exchange Commission indicate that, on average, cruises are sailing at far less than capacity. CCL just hit 69% capacity in 2nd quarter. NCLH stated they 'hope' to get to 65%. We've got a long way to go. I realize I'm a broken record here, but covid protocols must end if the cruise lines have any chance of tackling the debt they have racked. Testing will be the first to go, then vaccination requirements. If vaccination requirements aren't eliminated entirely, more 'work around' options will be offered for those who are unvaccinated. It's inevitable.

I would be proactive in getting these flights reticketed asap.

Silly and misleading. We all know that regardless who books the tickets, trouble-free travel is never a guarantee. The more intelligent question to ask is: "What are my options when trouble comes knocking?" A great example is taking place this very moment. Scandinavian Airlines SAS filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection yesterday and has grounded 78% of it's flights including most to/from the USA. I double checked and NCLair does contract with SAS airlines. The issue for cruise passengers currently stranded in Copenhagen is that SAS will not work directly with them to find flight alternatives. Instead, they are being asked to contact the cruise line air program directly. As you can expect, this is leading to additional frustration and delay. Of course, there are benefits to purchasing air thru a cruise line, but it's important to weight both the pros and cons. For me, in the current environment, I would not give away decision making power especially when it comes to air travel.

I never made any such claim.. 🙂

Do you have any type of link to support this position? What I'm seeing still shows HAL skewing much older than both Celebrity and Princess. I am looking at data from 2018. I think 2019 would be better data. Any data since the resumption is pretty much irrelevant since HAL has not resumed it's normal itineraries (which also skew older). PS: This isn't a slam on HAL or it's customers. HAL has done a great job marketing toward a younger audience. I'm just talking demographic facts with no judgement other than from a business seat.

I want to control my own reservation at this point. SAS just filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and there is lots of talk across social media about guests not being contacted by the cruise line with alternate flights. Overall very poor communication (which is somewhat expected since they just filed today and 60% of planes are on the ground). I wouldn't want to be held hostage to a NCL 1-800 line that may or may not be answered. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62048800

Productive or not, HAL knows it's customer ages and HAL appears to also be fed up with that image which is why they have entire marketing teams studying the age of their passengers and making changes onboard to attract a 'younger' demographic. Heck; there are entire University Courses being offered in how to 'Market to Millennials'. Demographics matter.

This thread is pretty doom and gloom. I am also pretty gloomy when it comes to the cruise industry but I would advise you to just double check with the credit card company you put the deposit down on to see if you are protected in a worse case scenario. Credit cards are known to have little niggles which give them lots of room to not fulfill under FTC laws. That should help you swing more to being excited again :).

OMG.. if this hits the financial news cycle the cruise industry is doomed 🤣

@iancalof course. It's pretty common knowledge in the industry that HAL is attempting to attract a younger crowd so that it can bob and weave more effectively. This article was interesting: https://thepointsguy.com/guide/holland-americas-rotterdam-isnt-grandparents-cruise-ship/ With that said, it's also common knowledge that HAL sails with an older crowd (on average) and, as such, will use this demographic information as it responds to the pandemic. "Another factor that could hold Holland America back until the coronavirus crisis comes to end is the older demographic of its customer base. The line typically draws a lot of travelers over the age of 55, with many in their 60s, 70s and 80s. Travel agent groups that track age spreads say Holland America passengers can be 15 years or more older, on average, than passengers on Royal Caribbean or Carnival ships." https://thepointsguy.com/guide/holland-america-capacity-cuts/

For clarity, that should read ... "making it more and more difficult to use/obtain Stockholder OBC".

From CLIA, 2019. Pre covid. Data for HAL will be skewed younger post covid since they aren't running all their longer itineraries. Who said anything about princess? You may want to reread post #144 😉 Sure, fine. Let's use 57 as the average age of HAL passengers. That is still a full decade older than the average cruise passenger (which is 47). Thanks for making my point, again ;). Why do you keep comparing to Princess? I mentioned nothing about Princess, I stated that HAL demographics would "lean toward" less tech savoy experiences and even mentioned that was a guess. For reference, this was the post you quoted in both responses above. Again, thank you for making my point :). Happy cruising.

NCL is actually pretty generous in how the OBC can be used. One of the only exclusions is Gratuity. It has been reported that CCL (Carnival, Princess, HAL, Cunard, etc..) is tightening up the rule and making it more and more difficult to use/obtain OBC.

I don't mean for this to sound derogatory to anyone thinking of investing, but 100 shares on NCL is only pricing $1,250 today. If you can't afford to lose that you really shouldn't be dabbling in this volatile market, especially just to get a $100 (or $250) OBC. To put it another way, In the last 6 months this stock has lost approximately 50% of it's value, so a $1250 investment would have lost approximately $625 to gain $100 (or $250) in OBC. Of course, if you feel NCL is in good financial state and want to invest in the company that's entirely different (not anything I would consider, but I'm just a nobody on the internet). PS: @KKB I didn't think shareholder credit could be used for gratuity but I could be getting the rules confused between companies.

Actually you are both wrong. Much of the world has "moved on" and have removed all covid protocols entirely. As mentioned in the above post, 72 countries are wide open today and the list grows daily. @BirdTravels and @PC Skier you may want to bookmark this page. I know it's difficult to keep up because protocols are so fluid but things are moving toward zero covid restrictions https://www.traveloffpath.com/countries-without-any-travel-restrictions-or-entry-requirements/ To make my point, four additional countries have been added to the list so far in July (and it's only July 5th). - Australia -Portugal - Mauritius - Trinidad and Tobago

Sure, HAL is trying to attract a younger crowd, however according to the CLIA the average age of HAL cruiser is 64 well above the average age across all lines (47.6). That is why my post specifically stated “lean toward” 😉

Many of the islands that cruise ships visit stopped requiring vaccination and testing long ago. It does get murky if travelers are non USA citizens. This list was updated June 30th. The list of islands no longer requiring any testing (or vaccination) for entry is growing daily. Islands with No Vaccine Requirement and No testing requirement: Bonaire All of BVI islands (Tortilla, Virgin Gorda, etc..) Cayman islands Curacao Dominican Republic Dominica Grenada Haiti Jamaica Puerto Rico Mexico St Lucia (unvaxed over 5 do require tests) All of USVI (testing is required if not vaxed and over 5). https://www.travelweekly.com/Caribbean-Travel/Caribbean-readies-for-a-wave-of-reopenings

Interesting concept. It would seem to me that the demographics of HAL cruisers would lean toward less tech savoy experiences, but that's just a wild guess on my part. The new partnership with MGM casino online gaming deal is being launched on HAL so that should be a good indicator. I do like thinking outside the box. "Through this partnership, gaming will be available on more than 50 ships ported in the U.S. spanning Carnival Cruise Line, Holland America Line and Princess Cruises." https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/betmgm-and-carnival-corporation-partner-to-offer-cruise-ship-gaming-301569556.html

I don't think a total liquidation of CCL is in the future, but I can see them selling off several brands. Downsizing and becoming leaner and more efficient will help with that 35 Billion dollars of debt they have racked up. I think the Saudi sovereignty is a solid buyer. There are others. Private equity and hedge funds rule the world ;-). I do not hold FCC in any company at the moment, but different strokes. Only time will tell. 🙂

I know people who absolutely refuse to get a booster due to reaction from first vaccine and it's ineffectiveness against current variants. I totally get that cruising right now is fluid and people booking must be ready to roll with changes, but I wound not want a booster a week before travel. Perhaps, people who refuse boosters are already not choosing to cruise and that is contributing to low occupancy. Makes sense. Any idea what country? The only place I see with a new booster requirement is Bali.