nosapphire

There was Noro on the SoA December (the cruise before the Christmas cruise). It escalated to about 20 cases a day - the cabin TV suddenly had a channel dedicated to Noro. First one that popped up when the TV was switched on. They got it under control by, among other things, enforcing handwashing at the restaurants; by enforcing, I mean 2 members of staff standing there making sure that everybody actually washed their hands, not just held their fingertips under the tap for a couple of seconds. The queues, as you can imagine, were horrendous. But - the fact that staff had to be detailed to make sure passengers did wash their hands before eating does sort of highlight why so many cases of Noro so quickly. Other control methods: No self-service for anything, anywhere - even the coffee machines in the library had a member of staff to use and supply.(Suprising how many passengers really did not grasp the concept of waiting to be served, instead trying to reach round to grab things themselves). No books. No covers on the menus (saves wiping them down between users). Tables at dinner laid for basic use (rather like the lunch buffet tables) - looked very bleak. Salt/pepper sachets. Tables cleaned (including new tablecloth) immedately after diners left. Chair arms and back wiped. Anything that used shared equipment closed - no games/card room/crafts (I was devastated when they removed the ping-pong). Main doors to the public toilets propped open so nobody had to touch them. Housekeeping constantly cleaning everything - handrails (including the gangway), lifts, lift buttons, playhouse/public room seatbacks and arms. (Formal night cocktail party was in all venues, rather than one -officers walking around had to keep dodging housekeeping spraying and wiping everything). It was a case of "if somebody might touch it - bleach it" Entire ship smelt faintly of bleach. Tour coaches fumigated and seat backs/arms wiped before anyone boarded. Shuttle coach the same between each shuttle. The crew were truly heroic; within 6 days they had got things back to a "normal" lever of Noro, and some things started to come back for use. I'd prefer "obsessive" handwashing if it keeps the ping-pong open....

As everybody else has already said, yes - you still need insurance. The plus factor is that for a Brit, insurance for a round Britain cruise should be very cheap.

I have never needed to carry out a transaction on board, but I can tell you that when first logging in, my tablet/Norton security always warns me that it is not a secure network (i.e, it is a public network). Your problem may be if your provider wants to send a one-time code to your mobile by text. Can you not arrange to make payment early, before you cruise? The specific payment date is usually the latest payment date, most companies will accept an earlier payment.

I believe lounge suit and tie is acceptable on formal nights (husband accepted in MDR on both Discovery and Adventure in 2023). Only a few full-on evening gowns seen (much admired) - cocktail-type dress, or trousers/skirt with a dressy top was the norm. It was evident that everybody made an effort, but there was a big enough mix that nobody felt over-dressed or under-dressed. (It was also apparent that, regardless of what was on top, many ladies were firmly staying with comfy shoes. Quite right, too).

I have seen the police vans lined up at some Canadian cruise terminals. When we asked a terminal worker what was going on, he "reassured" us that it was routine - the "big ships" always had passengers to be arrested on arrival. (Not sure if the one they were waiting for that time was Celebrity or RCL). So the bad behaviour does go on, has been happening for years, and cruise ships are well versed in handling it. Not spotted any brawls on Saga yet, but I have occasionally seen some rather undesirable behaviour from people who appeared to have over-imbibed. I would hesitate to claim that all Saga passengers have very good manners. Most do, some are atrocious. And sad that during Noro outbreaks staff are needed on supervisory duty to make sure all passengers wash their hands before entering food venues.

My impression is that Saga do not have a "fixed" list of included wines; it varies, probably depending on who made the last order. It is correct that a high precentage of them are wines found on the upper-middle shelf at major supermarkets. This, to my mind, is a pretty clever way of choosing the included wines. Supermarkets need high turnover, so will prioritise wines that they know people will continue to buy. It would be reasonable to suppose that a majority of cruise passengers will find the same wines perfectly acceptable as included wines. Most people on the cruises we have been on seemed quite happy. Once we were next to a table with some chaps who, from the bits of conversation we overheard, were rather fussy about their wines. They asked for the wine list, and sounded disappointed that the varieties they expected were not listed. "Might as well suffer the included plonk" said one. The included plonk was offered, accepted, duly poured. Sipped. Paused. Sipped. Paused. "Actually, this is pretty good" - said in a tone of immense surprise. Think they happily worked their way along the included wines for the rest of the cruise.

The standard price increases as you go up the decks (you do get a better view from the upper decks). Are the cabins on E deck shown as grade-L? This grade is at each end of the deck, and not available when the cruise first goes on sale (I think they are held back for entertainers), any unused L-grades get offered for sale nearer to sailing date. Reason I asked is because E deck usually gets sold out quite quickly - it is a popular position. You may sometimes hear people talking on the promenade when you are on the balcony, but the sound insulation on the new ships is very good, we have been on E deck (aft and midships) more than once (by choice) and no noise in the cabin. Very steady position, too.

The majority of surveys are issued by third-party organisations (usually market research companies) contracted to run a survey, collate the results, and present the collated findings to the company that employed them. The third party rarely has any in depth knowledge about the subject itself, or which countries they are sending the surveys to, which can explain why the questions sometimes seem a bit odd. Somewhere at the very end should be (in teeny-tiny print) the name of the company collecting the information "on behalf of..."

Adventure in December, Explore Ashore general tours advice flyer in cabin included the words: "Please note that we do not provide paper maps on board. ... a digital map as well as port information is displayed on your TV... we suggest that you take a picture of this before heading ashore". And indeed - no paper maps provided. Apart from the fact that the digital map did not include any street names (so immediately useless), and only covered a very small area anyway, you had to scroll the TV screen down to get the entire map visible, which makes it rather hard to "take a picture" as suggested. I think that this is a fairly new idea, probably to save costs, and certainly dreamt up by somebody somewhat detached from reality. Whether or not it stays this way, or whether or not the passenger complaints will bring back a more useful form of information - no idea. But (my opinion) one thing that has deteriorated dramatically on the "new" ships is the general information given for port days. Not nearly as user friendly as used to be. Bottled water still handed out to everybody at the gangway, though - so not all bad.

Yes, it would make much more sense to email everybody with the details and a note on the email saying "wait for our call" (rather like the advance registrations). Would save the Saga people from having to go through the revised itinerary each telephone call,as well. Being fair, when they telephone people individually about a changed/cancelled cruise, that is part of their procedure for trying to give people the best opportunity to switch to a different cruise (or get a full refund). I understand that other lines simply cancel the booking and let the cancellee join the general scrum if they want to rebook. So I think that the Saga way is better in this instance.** SEE BELOW Just gets frustrating that on the one hand they seem to want everybody to get technical (I am still muttering about the "take a photo of the port map from your TV screen" - such a stupid idea) and on the other they don't make full use of available tech when it would help people. ** NOTE: I can probably give an update about this later in the year. Booked on the "Israel and Ancient Egypt" cruise (booked before the current situation started) and for some odd reason now suspect this may not go ahead quite as per the proposed itinerary.

I asked the rep on the Adventure first part of December when those who had pre-registered would get the 2025 Summer notices, and she said, "probably March-April" - then added, "but they don't tell us these things". Which does not surprise me - 2 years ago, having a live-chat (with a live human, not a bot) I ended up being told that the live chat on the Saga cruise sector can only quote from the brochure and the website; they have no direct link to the cruise department, so can only give you answers that you could have found out yourself. Always amazes me why Saga do not make better use of their (usually) excellent staff.

On the Rose and the Ruby, stacks of the day's newspapers were brought into the embarkation waiting lounge (I recollect the Mail, Times and Telegraph). Stopped when they got the (larger) Sapphire. The tea/coffee/fruit juice/pastries are still there, though. Mid-morning announcement on the last cruise that departure tag calls would ONLY be given in the designated lounge, evidently lots of people had gone straight to the Living Room in the hopes of sneaking off early. Bit pointless if the luggage is not already put out (or, if included transport, your car not there). Think that when you reach Sapphire level it may get an earlier disembarkation - Gold definitely doesn't. We are Gold, shared with 2 first-time-with-Saga. They were an extremely nice couple, but not sure how they viewed Saga; they did say the food was better than Fred Olsen, but this came across rather as being "damned with faint praise" - especially as when we said," how was your cruise"? there was a very long pause before they said, "nice".

Discovery - Deck E aft, luggage tag 7, time 08:30. Adventure - Deck B forward, luggage tag 27, time 10:05. I always assumed that priority would be given to anyone who had trains/coach/ferry/plane to catch, then the others fitted around them. Worked pretty smoothly both times around, though. ++ Somebody decided "included excursions" would look really good in the advertising, without worrying too much whether they would offer any added value to the passenger. They don't. Far better how they did it in the "old" days, with much more port information given out on the Today programme plus a paper map to take ashore. ++ Food - I don't think the food itself has deteriorated overall; I can recall a few meals that did not hit the mark long before the new ships came along, but to my mind the overall quality and variety is still very good. Where it may suffer is when people start comparing with the real luxury lines (sorry, Saga - I may still love you but you are not a "Luxury" line) and it sounds as if Cunard offer a more adventurous dining experience. The overall deal with Saga - for all their faults - still suits me, and many others, this does not mean they are better, or that I think other lines are in any way worse.

Have you tried writing to Mr Blanks (or one of the other directors) via the registered office address? Link below is for the company set up for the Spirit of Discovery. https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09839927 Sometimes (not always) that route bypasses the secretarial staff and gets directly to to intended recipient.

Our first cruise was June 2003, our first Saga cruise was July 2006. Pretty much every cruise we have been on, Saga or others, there is somebody grimly shaking their head and muttering about standards slipping, service not what it used to be. I don't know if it is rose-tinted glasses making the previous cruise seem better than it was, or simply the fact that all companies in all businesses are constantly trying to cut costs, with some cost-cutting being more noticeable and less desirable than others - but certainly I recall a reall crescendo of complaints about the dinner service on the Saga Sapphire back in 2015. (As far as I was concerned it was all fine). It does sometimes seem that many people want haute cuisine food, but to be delivered at the same speed as a burger bar. Yes, I think some things are not as good as they used to be. Some things have improved. As far as the food goes, Saga (to the best of my knowledge) do not have a fixed menu or a fixed recipe system, it is up to the chef on each ship to decide what is to be served and how it is to be cooked. Add to this the natural variation in different supply batches, and would explain why sometimes the food is not/does not seem as good. On the Discovery in June this year I had an "always available" steak, which was tender but totally tasteless. On the Adventure this month I had another "always available" steak, which was both tender and a burst of excellent flavour (got onion rings on the Adventure, too). ++++++ The shared transport - no problems outward or return. There are not enough Saga/Titan vehicles to carry everybody, much transport has to be subbed out,which may get re-subcontracted. The Saga website FAQ does indicate that for shared transport a people carrier/MPV will be used, so if a saloon car turns up for a shared journey then something has gone wrong at the re-subcontracting stage and an urgent call to Saga (instead of getting in the car) is needed. I find it difficult to believe that Saga would knowingly use Uber, hope anyone who got Uber has made a formal complaint and demanded an explaination. +++++++++ The magazine - while it does not affect me, I think that it may go down as one of the most short-sighted decisions made by Saga (and they have made quite a few over the years). I doubt that the perceived savings will be anything like enough to make the fallout worthwhile - I heard that there was a class action for breach of contract going on. +++++++++++ The comments about Sandnes instead of Stavanger. There were quite a lot of other comments about this,affected quite a lot of lines, not just Saga.(think there was a thread about this on the HAL forum, plus people on Fred Olsen were asking on Tripadvisor. And same thing last year happened to Cunard.I think it is something to do with how many ships are expected at any one time. ++++++++ Debt - anyone who purchased a couple of brand new ships just before the world closed down is going to have a stonking debt to somebody. I think Saga renegotiated the mortgages to allow a longer payment period. Not heard anything about any more new ships, river or ocean. ++++++++ The comment about car insurance surprised me - 2 years ago somebody drove into the side of our car and we took it to our local independent specialist. We said we had still to notify the insurance and argue for it being done outside of their insurance network, and when we told him it was Saga he said "Saga are normally pretty good to deal with". Once we had submitted details and got the claim reference, the independent handled the entire claim directly with Saga. No problems. Which has nothing whatseover to do with the cruise arm, anyway. ++ Yes, I think that there is indeed a lot of cost cutting going on.All companies do this (they call it "efficiencies") Whether it is affecting standards - not sure. Some certainly do; what bright spark thought telling you to take a photo of the map on your TV was a substitute for a printed paper map? Especially when the TV map does not even have road names!

I'm not surprised you are puzzled. I'd be puzzled too if I read that comment without the sudden realisation that I had posted the comment without remembering that 2024 (release date) comes after 2023(now) and before 2025(sailing dates). How can I forget a whole year in between?! Sorry.

That really doesn't sound right - the 2025 cruises they have reelased are departure dates January - March, with both ships returning early/mid April. So (a) there are not going to be any departures in April, or (b) they hope that the pre-regs will fill the early cruises so they don't need to worry about the general release, or (c) the agent has given the wrong dates. I am assuming (c).

I think the pertinent phrase is "require assistance". The majority of people who genuinely need assistance will say yes, simply because they know they will otherwise find it difficult to get from shoreside to the ship and their cabin. I think it highly unlikely that anyone will be refused boarding simply because they have an undeclared walking stick but are capable of moving to/from the ship and up/down stairs without anyone helping them. And those who just turn up and ask for assistance purely to get in front of the embarkation queue - let's hope they are indeed refused boarding.

May be able to sift some at check-in, who will have the best opportunity to see how people are moving when they arrive,and will (should?) have the records of whether assistance has been requested or not. It may not be so much a case of establishing for every passenger whether or not they are able, it is: (a) having the right to deny boarding for those who have not declared but are evidently not capable of getting around without assistance in an emergency (even with those who use a walking stick, it is generally obvious who needs the stick to be able to move around and who uses the stick for a bit of extra confidence) (or to prod queue jumpers...). and (b) if there ever is an emergency, being able to demonstrate afterwards that they have taken every reasonable precaution to make sure they did not have more non-mobile passengers than the ship should be carrying. As for the queue jumpers, having to fill out all the details prior to boarding or risk being refused should deter quite a lot of them. Hopefully.

For those who are wondering if their Nordic walking pole will be treated as a walking stick/mobility aid, if it was not a tongue-in-cheek question, the Gov.Uk link (scroll down to 4.1) makes it quite clear the difference between a mobility aid and a non-mobility aid. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/assistive-technology-definition-and-safe-use/assistive-technology-definition-and-safe-use The information posted about P&O requirements seems clear to me - if there is an emergency, are you able to go up and down stairs without assistance? My interpretation: The 121 is the minimum recommended assistance for those who use a walking stick; it is not a compulsory requirement. If you use a walking stick BUT can make your own way up and down stairs without anybody helping you, then you do not need assistance. Regardless of whether or not you use a walking stick or anything else, if the lifts being out of operation leave you stranded, then you need assistance. I wonder if some of these changes are less to do with people abusing the system and more to do with the recent bad weather (including the widely publicised roll of the Saga ship) highlighting what a disaster it could be in a real crisis if the ship crew were unaware of how many passengers they had on board who said "no" to the assistance question - but were basing their answer on the assumption that they would not need to use the stairs.

It is a legal requirement for the captain or vessel owner (doesn't matter which) to report such incidents to the MAIB, who will then decide whether an investigation needs to be carried out. It is rather like an inquest: What happened?, what was the cause of it happening?, should there be any recommendations given to prevent it happening again?. Many reports of past investigations are extremely interesting, and are written in straightforward terms (they must be - I could understand them). It is not a legal inquiry, although if somebody or something was at fault it will be included in the report. Some of the investigations have uncovered safety defects in manufacture, in maintenance, or in common procedures, and advice has been issued accordingly to ports, operators,manufacturers etc. Link attached for information - it will be quite some time before the SoD report comes out, but if anyone is interested there are some other cruise lines/ships incidents listed (you'll have to go through a few pages to get there) including the Saga Sapphire. https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports

You will not have any problem by the lifts, that is a good upgrade. Moved to a good position midships, deluxes, and the lifts are in a lobby so not actually by the cabins. We have been close to the lifts and heard nothing at all - sound insulation on SoD is very good. Have a great cruise.

According to the Lisbon Port website, the expected time of departure for SoD is 18:00 on 13th November (Monday).

Maybe that is where the official "signing off" bodies are at the minute?

Purely an idle thought.. tongue in cheek. I wonder if modern ships are like modern cars. You know, when the car starts hectoring you before you've even started the thing (fasten seatbelts, check tyre pressure, check rear seats..) (I'm almost expecting, "did you wash behind your ears?") So I wonder if up on the bridge the ship is giving a constant stream of reminders and and "have you done thises". Do you think that the ship computer gets shouted at as much as some cars (or automatic check-outs) "Yes,yes, I know - wait a minute, do"