ChutChut

3 hours ago, Red Haired Lady said:

The US CDC does not have jurisdiction outside the US.  But I am wondering if the cruise lines would still follow the guidelines.  

It's questionable whether the CDC even has authority to institute these types of limitations. 

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

No. Test cruises are only required if the cruise lines do not choose to proceed with vaccinated sailings.  Something tells me that short of "ok you guys, off you go no requirements or protocols" would be a "joke".  So predictable.

Florida won't permit vaccine certs. so cruises will have to conduct the simulations. However, I suspect CDC, Florida, etc. will come to some compromise soon.

On 5/2/2021 at 7:00 AM, Steelers36 said:

IF cruises are with vaccinated passengers, those folks should not be worried.  I suspect the nervousness comes from not knowing.

Vaccinated pax still can get Covid.

Just now, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks, yeah, as I read the whole order, a number of things jumped out at me. For instance, he speaks of people being able to conduct normal affairs like shopping, which (to me, at least) implies that he objects to requiring proof of a vaccine for everyday life, but maybe not for extraordinary things like international travel. I simply don't know. 🤷‍♂️

Good point. I could have sworn I heard him talk about this in relation to the cruise industry but who knows. We'll just have to ride it out and see. 🏄‍♀️

1 minute ago, Middleager said:

I'd only go on cruise that require 100% guests/crews to fully vaccinated.  If that means not cruising out of FL, fine with us.  We have to fly to get to a cruise port, so it doesn't matter that much which ports we fly in and out of.  If DeSantis forces cruises away from FL, it's FL's loss of those cruise related businesses.

What happens when you step off the boat into a foreign port city and are surrounded by unvaccinated and potentially ill people? You can then bring it back onboard with you. Just because you have the vaccine doesn't mean you can't fall ill - and if you have comorbidities, that's another story....

11 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I just read Gov DeSantis's original order. Section 5 states this:

 

"The requirements in this order do not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting Covid-19 screening protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health, and nothing herein shall be construed to interfere with individuals' rights to access their own personal health information under federal law."

 

To me, that seems to suggest that cruise lines could require a screening process, even if they couldn't demand proof of vaccination or proof of recovery. I also wonder whether the fact that cruise ships are foreign flagged and owned will have bearing on the order. The order speaks of "businesses in Florida." Also, the Governor could rescind this order at any time.

Here's the full text:

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

I think you're right. Cruise line could demand masks, social distancing, a negative Covid test, etc. but cannot require any proof/certification of the vaccine. Also, you're right in what does "in" mean? Does that mean if the business has any offices (corporate or others) in Florida, etc. I don't think the fact the ship is foreign flagged will have bearing as a foreign business can do business "in" Florida. Again - it depends upon what "businesses IN Florida" means. But hasn't deSantis already commented that his Order (and now the passed law) would apply to cruise lines? 

24 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

How about you give your vaccine info in the online app, and that way no one IN FLORIDA asked you for anything.  That is my guess.  Also, how does it work if NCLH, which is technically not a Florida company is asking?  I am not sure.

Doesn't matter if NCL is incorporated in Florida. It only matters if it's doing business "in" Florida.

59 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

As of late April, Royal Caribbean has had 125,000 passengers on cruises this spring in Europe and Asia with only 21 COVID-19 cases.

 

RCL said "That's a positivity rate of 0.01% and as we've emphasized all of this has been experience without having the availability of vaccines."

 

source: RCL stock analysts conference call on April 29.

 

 

 

Very enlightening.

18 minutes ago, D C said:

What exactly is the risk we're talking about?  Risk of simply contracting covid after being vaccinated, or the risk of also becoming hospitalized or dead from covid after being vaccinated?

 

And what is an acceptable level of risk for those?  You're right, no risk is ever zero, so there must be some level at which the risk vs reward tips in favour of the reward and not the risk. 

I don't have an answer for what risk is acceptable. I know my own personal risk level but mileage varies. I mean the risk of contracting after vaccination and the more serious risk of those, while vaccinated, who have comorbidities that could exacerbate  the severity. 

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

This is about the same risk as a fully vaccinated person going into a restaurant, bar or shop in your home area.   How do you know who you are mingling with at where you live on a daily basis?  Nobody has a scarlet V tattooed on their forehead.  If you are vaccinated and on shore and abide by the rules as recently updated by the CDC, there should be no problem for you.  If others choose not to be vaccinated even with abundant vaccine available in the US, then they are at risk.  Not you.

Not necessarily true. Even the vaccinated have some risk of infection and bringing it back on the ship to infect others. Many who cruise are immuno-compromised and, even with a vaccination, may have more severe reaction. No vaccine is 100%. There are young, healthy people who have virtually no risk of getting it. There are elderly vaccinated people with comorbidities who still are at a higher risk of getting it and getting a worse reaction. There always is risk.

36 minutes ago, jgmorgan said:

Relevant language from Florida Senate Bill 2006 (2021):

 

(1) A business entity, as defined in s. 768.38 to include any business operating in this state, may not require patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 1124 vaccination or post-infection recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business operations in this state. This subsection does not otherwise restrict businesses from instituting screening protocols consistent with authoritative or controlling government-issued guidance to protect public health.

But what does "operating in this state" mean? I mean lines like Princess, Disney, etc. have corporate offices in Florida, etc., so would that satisfy the "operating in" language? I'm also reading this to mean any business may institute other methods of screening such as masks, social distancing, etc. but no cert. of vaccination status.

On 4/29/2021 at 4:19 PM, casinoman1 said:

I have never been on a cruise with Disney before, we have been on a good number of Celebrity and are Diamond members with Royal Caribbean. 

I called Disney today to find out how much a trip would be on the 18 July from Liverpool. The price quoted was £714.18 for an inside guarantee for 2 adults, which I accepted and booked. 

I am unsure if we got any form of discount with this as we are DVC members but the price did not seem too astronomical.

How many days for the DCL cruise? If seven - that's a great price. If 2/3 - that's not.

15 hours ago, christraveller said:

In British Columbia, using an app with two factor authentication (sign in, they send a code to the cell number on file, and you enter that), we can see our most recent prescriptions, doctors’ visits and now…drumroll..immunization records. 

if this is what it takes to travel…. ####  my  privacy rights. I would rather

- travel

- not infect others

 

To stretch the vaccine supply, the second jab will be 4 months after the first. 
 

High taxes, but an effective system when the chips are down. 
 

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary. 

 

Privacy rights are huge, though....

On 4/30/2021 at 11:45 PM, Qld13 said:

I don't think I am misunderstanding this, but would you go on a cruise knowing 2% of crew and 5% of passengers would be unvaccinated!! As a vaccinated passenger you can still get Covid, but hopefully not severely, if any of the 5% of unvaccinated passengers have covid but don't come down with it themselves until 14 days into your wonderful 30 day cruise, which would see you spend the remainder confined to your suite. I think everyone has to be vaccinated.

But what happens when you get off of the ship and are surrounded by many unvaccinated people in far away port cities. Then they infect you and you bring it back on? The risk is still present.

1 minute ago, mrlevin said:

Sounds like you should stay off a cruise ship. 😀

You have misinterpreted my post. I am healthy and understand there is risk in everything I do in life. I've been on thirty cruises and understand the risk of being infected with just about anything. I'm just putting questions/comments out there for people who seem to believe once everyone is vaccinated, there is no/nil risk. We don't know that. 😀

2 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Yes, thanks for the link. The tests will answer important questions about virus transmission. And let me illustrate my concern. As a fully vaccinated person, I might pick up a virus on the plane, in an airport, or in a port. I then might carry it on to the ship. But if I and all others on board are.vaccinated, it is my understanding that chances of transmission of serious illness on board are nil, even if I test positive as a carrier. And the CDC is recommending allowing indoor gatherings of vaccinated people on land, even without masks. I see nothing different about indoor gatherings indoors at sea.
 

i am worried about the test requirement to board (or reboard) in addition to the vaccine requirement, because it might disallow my boarding in some remote areas, forfeiture of my return plane reservations, and the need for me to pay for my trip home. Fish’s we are not willing to take.

Nil? How many studies have been conducted in a controlled setting like a cruise ship? We don't know the risk. We won't know until we have a full ship of vaccinated people get off at a port and someone encounters a sick person in the city and brings it back on. Lot's of immune-compromised people cruise and with those weakened immune systems overall, who knows what could be the result - even with the vaccination. It's all a risk. 

On 5/1/2021 at 12:47 PM, caribill said:

 

Thanks.

 

The news article I read did not mention this.

Disney is going to be a problem as over half of its pax are children. Unless children are exempt from vaccination (and, of course, Florida prohibition on vaccine passports, etc.), those boats may be somewhat empty.

30 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

IMHO it will be different this time. March 2020 Covid was new, and scary, and not much was known about it. There were no plans in place, no vaccine, and there were not known treatments. Ports just panicked and left people, even their own citizens, at sea to rot. The ships didn’t have test kits, so they didn’t know who was positive until they became gravely ill.

Going forward, ships will be required to have protocol agreements with the ports they visit. They will also be equipped with test kits and treatment options we didn’t have then. A single positive case will likely be quarantined immediately and put ashore at the next port with the rest of their party. Even ports that can’t handle a full shipload of people can deal with one or two. There may be specific ports missed, but that has always happened for various reasons.
A fully, or nearly fully, vaccinated ship will have its own herd immunity, and the odd case will not trigger mass contagion. Being caught falsifying your vaccine status will likely mean expulsion at the next port, just like any other necessary document. 
I’m not worried about the odd positive case on a long journey. People debark for medical reasons fairly often without affecting the rest of the cruise. It’s a mass outbreak with significant numbers of vulnerable passengers that turn an 80 day cruise into an 8 day one.

How do you know it won't trigger a mass contagion? There have been no studies at all on the effect of bringing an infected person onto a ship of vaccinated pax. Theoretically, some may get it but have milder symptoms, etc. However, I've had a flu vaccine before and gotten the flu - a horrible case - a month later. I've had years when I wasn't vaccinated, that I didn't get it at all.  It's all an unknown.

24 minutes ago, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

 

 

+1👍🏻

Key word here is "should" be minimal. We don't know how that will play out. If one person gets off the boat at a port and encounters someone with the virus and brings it back - we don't know what will happen or how severe any one person's reaction will be. It's all a risk and all an unknown.

5 minutes ago, Dinglebert said:

It is a bank holiday for us but our calls are routed to the states so not a bank holiday for you!  I have had no issues with the other companies refunding to new card or direct to bank account.  Attempting to send to a card I have made them aware no longer exists is pointless and a waste of both our times.

Totally understand your frustration. Cruise lines are full of rote bureaucracy and even when you inform them of a "wrinkle," they default back to their lock-step procedures.

6 hours ago, B Midged said:

Privacy concerns?  Why would you care if someone could potentially find out if you were vaccinated?  

Try this - how about if I got the HPV vaccination as a young adult? What about if there is an HIV vaccination in the future? It's my private medical information neither you nor anyone else has the right to force me to reveal it. What about HIV status? What if a business mandates everyone be HIV-negative before entering? Or mandates you be vaccinated for tuberculosis? How about mandating everyone be vaccinated for the flu before entering, etc.? Sexually transmitted disease status (Herpes Simplex can be transmitted through a cut finger, etc.? Alcohol rehab status given you could drive drunk and kill someone, etc.? This is a slippery slope.

2 hours ago, mscdivina2016 said:

What exactly is the issue?

Even whether you vote or not in an election is public record.

 

What privacy issue is there exactly?????

Did John Doe of anywhere USA get a covid shot?  Yes/no

 

If you go into a business that states "masks are mandatory" you either wear a mask or don't go in.

In the future a business may say "Only vaccinated people are allowed to enter" if you don't have a shot you don't go in and that's a right a business can exercise.

 

Steve

 

It takes a village but every village has an idiot!

The issue is very complex - not simple as you seem to think. There are layers of medical record privacy laws in states (I know - HIPPA doesn't apply here) that could prohibit businesses, etc. from asking for/obtaining any medical information from you as a condition of service. Businesses are free to limit/prohibit as they wish as long as no fed OR state laws are violated. States may pass laws that prohibit businesses from discriminating against customers based upon vaccination status. Some businesses provide essential goods/services and prohibiting a percentage of residents from obtaining those essential services due to their vaccination status probably wouldn't withstand judicial scrutiny. This is NOT a simple issue and businesses CANNOT just do what they want.

4 hours ago, Shidah said:

Not thinking children would die on board, but picture a cruise line allowing 5% unvaccinated children on board.  They all interact in the kids club ( which should be closed until the pandemic is completely over, but let’s say it is not).  A few get sick, covid or even non-covid until testing can confirm and it turns into a nightmare.  Ports will not allow the ship to disembark, salivating media outlets all jump on board the story, everyone gets quarantined to their cabins, and cruising gets shut down again by an over zealous CDC.  No one wants this to happen.  Keep kids off the ships until a vaccine is approved for them, which I predict will happen within 2 -3 months.  

I get what you're saying but that could happen if one goes into port and gets infected (even having been vaccinated) by someone at a market, church, etc. and comes back on the ship. I just wonder what lines like Disney, etc. will do as their customer base is, basically, children.

5 hours ago, Radiioman46 said:

"What if.......", you can play that game the rest of your life. Have fun! 

I read CI66774's message differently.  I don't think she/he was saying be afraid to go ashore, I just think he/she was saying there always will be risks anywhere one goes in the world and that's part of life. Just my take.

1 hour ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

The fact is that both will use the same nonexistent verification system. 100% vaccination is simply a slogan or feel good term/intention, it has no teeth in terms of actual practicality. Your odds on any ship will be the same essentially. Good intentions are admirable but simply unrealistic. I still feel the vast majority will be vaccinated and odds very low for those who are fully vaccinated. Even many of the folks who slide by will have some natural immunity as there has been so many cases. Folks should feel confident but don't kid yourself on the 100% vaccination farce and cast your care on the lines. You are ultimately responsible for your risk acceptance or risk aversion. Anyone who is truly afraid or of such poor health that covid maybe life changing, should probably stay home and avoid even "100% vaccine" cruises. It's simply a implication/guarantee bar that no business could live up to.      

Well put!