ChutChut

10 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

The plot seems eternally thick.  This is a bigger roller coaster ride than Bolt.  Just when you think something has been decided, there's another dip and twist.

Ahhhh - seems Carnival won't be departing out of Galveston after all....

On 6/3/2021 at 1:38 PM, Syracusefan44 said:

Watching a Princess webinar now and it was announced that there will not being any test cruises since they are going out with fully vaccinated crew & passengers (there will be limited exceptions for religious or medical

reasons in compliance with the CDC mandates). They made this decision based on their demographics and the fact that the majority of past passengers will be vaccinated.

 

It also sounds like they are going to use the new Health Status feature on the app to upload your COVID19 vaccine information.

 

The representatives from Princess, Holland America, and Seabourne also stated that if a cruise is visiting a port of call requiring visitors to be vaccinated then all passengers must be vaccinated.

 

Basically the law passed by DeSantis is irrelevant because unvaccinated passengers will not be allowed onboard if one of the ports of call require COVID19 vaccines. 

DeSantis didn't "pass" the law - the FL legislature did - and it's not "irrelevant." It's the LAW unless a court invalidates it. If Princess wants to ignore it, that's a $5,000 fine times the number of paxs on each sailing requiring vaccine verification out of FL.

12 hours ago, LibertyBella said:

And there are cruise lines like Viking that do not accept children under 18.  

 

Really, a state governor has no authority over an international cruise line.  The cruise line can basically "port" anywhere, and customers will still travel there.

 

All Viking Bermuda cruises starting mid-June are just about sold out.  (And yes, I am booked on one of those cruises for this summer--fully vaccinated, multiple covid tests required in advance, and tests during the cruise, excursions bubble.  And all cabins have balconies!)

 

My Princess cruise scheduled for 2022 is in Europe.  There is no reason why I ever really have to go to Florida for a cruise.  Besides,  I value my health enough that I prefer to travel only with those that are like-minded.

It absolutely does when those ships dock at a STATE-OWNED facility. Your contention that the port state has no jurisdiction over a cruise ship docked at a state port is patently false.

2 minutes ago, Caps_Shield said:

Looks like RCL just canceled a bunch of sailing.  They only have 2 ships starting in July and they are both from Florida.  The rest start in August.  Really interested as to how far behind Carnival is.  

Those Florida sailings are in jeopardy unless they comply with FL law.

1 hour ago, POA1 said:

 

I was really surprised that the original judge punted to mediation. I could be woring but disputes between the states and Federal agencies seem like the purview of courts more than mediators.

Mediators just attempt to facilitate an agreement b/t the parties. They don't issue orders or mandate anything.

On 6/2/2021 at 7:56 AM, ArthurUSCG said:

The talks with the CDC have been private. I could see DCL asking for requiring 18+ to be vaccinated in exchange for allowing mask free adult areas. 

Don't think that will happen. Will conduct test cruises and go with testing prior to boarding no vacine requirement - out of Florida.

1 hour ago, eclue said:

I should have said the worst in our lifetime........I am quite familiar with other plagues.

 

Regular flu kills 500,000 people per year. That adds up pretty quickly over the years.

6 hours ago, AZjohn said:

I thought Princess did already came out and say they are going with the 95% vaccinated? Why would they even try for a unvaccinated cruise to come out of a year and a half shutdown? It's going to be hard enough to get these cruise ships back in business without adding in the people who do not want a jab.

Only for Alaska.

5 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

https://www.fox13news.com/news/report-desantis-nearing-compromise-on-cruise-vaccination-requirements

 

Interesting turn of events, Hopefully it happens. 

This is based on an erroneous Forbes article. Gov's office already has disputed it.

2 hours ago, ArthurUSCG said:

We don't know that yet. The  UK cruises require vaccines for 18+. This test cruise is just so they don't have to meet the 95% passenger and 98% crew vaccination requirement.

Got it. With the amount of kids on Disney cruises, there's no way for them to meet any vaccine guidance.

On 5/31/2021 at 11:21 AM, caribill said:

 

"Apparently, the revised messaging would assert that the cruise terminal will be in Florida, while “as soon as you pass through and step on the ship, you’re no longer considered to be local. You’re now in international waters,” said Ritzenthaler, who noted that DeSantis will still be able to say “that people in Florida will not have to show vaccination proof to go to bars and restaurants and Walmart and Target, but how cruising is a little bit different.” "

 

I wonder if the Gov will then agree that Florida sales tax no longer needs to be paid on beverage purchases made on the ship before it leaves the pier since the ship is no longer in Florida with his logic.

Story is an older one and before legislature passed actual law. 

On 5/31/2021 at 8:16 AM, MJC said:

Forbes is the only source I've found for this so far, but let's hope it's true. Exemption from FL vaccine passport law for cruise lines.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/

Don't think this story is credible. It's now a law and the FL legislature would have to amend it.

All smoking - indoor/outdoor on cruise ships should be banned.

3 hours ago, Radiioman46 said:

No where else in the country are there protocols different for either the vaccinated or unvaccinated. So, it should be the same for cruising on the ships. It shouldn't matter. 

 

Each cruise line should set their policy for all their passengers however they see fit.

 

The CDC is wrong by issuing a different set of protocols for each group. 

 

 

Actually - no. It's a mix of federal, state, and local laws that govern cruise ships while at sea and while docked at a state-owned port. Private businesses are NOT allowed to dictate terms of service that invade the medical privacy of individuals, discriminate based upon medical status, etc. It's a myth private businesses get to operate as they see fit.

12 minutes ago, cscurlock said:

The CDC did not issue anything.  The cruise lines submitted their plan.  CDC gave them the rules based on the plan they were provided.   Foreign companies cruise ships are completely different than amusement parks.  If they want to flag their vessels in the US then they could easily set their rules as long as it didn't interfere with US laws.

Not exactly. Regardless of flagship, ships that dock in state-owned ports ARE subject to state/local laws and also are subject to the ADA as they are a public accommodation.

32 minutes ago, Murph269 said:

I really hope they’re allowed to sail, but this article makes it sound like it’s not a done deal and that pushback is likely from the governor. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article251706998.html

It's not a done deal at all. The only saving grace is the cruise departs before the law goes into effect. If RCI sails and requires vaccine verification after 7/1, it's gonna be racking up some incredibly major fines. Each violation is $5,000 - times that by the amount of people on each cruise in violation of the law and the dollars add up very quickly.

26 minutes ago, Stallion said:

But the Constitution does EXPRESSLY delegate to the federal government the power to regulate interstate commerce-so the 10th Amendment CLEARLY under your own citation does not apply. There is absolutely no reasonable argument that international cruising is not governed by the interstate commerce clause

 

See citation to the US Constitution that completely disposes of your "novel" argument

 

Commerce clause, provision of the U.S. Constitution (Article I, Section   8 that authorizes Congress “to regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with Indian Tribes.” 

Not interstate commerce when docked at a state-owned port. Once the ship departs, then fed law prevails. However, cruise lines docked in a state-owned port are governed by a combination of fed, state, and local law.

28 minutes ago, Stallion said:

The Florida law was a political stunt that no person educated on the interstate commerce clause was too terribly concerned with or what Florida's governor might claim since Florida can only regulate intra-state commerce. Seriously what federal constitutional or maritime expert has ever claimed the Florida law applied to interstate commerce. 

First  -  it's the Commerce Clause (no interstate in the title - but you would know that if you knew anything about the Commerce Clause) and you are wrong in that the Port is owned by state/local. As such, cruises docked at the port ARE governed by a combination of fed, state, and local law. 

2 hours ago, bdever said:

“Cruise ship operators, at their discretion, may...”

Realistically, if Carnival is not going to sail with all vaccinated passengers they are either going to have to enforce a mask mandate on unvaccinated passengers or come up with a way where they don’t have to police or enforce anything. 
I don’t think Carnival wants to be in the position of being mask police so the only way around it would be to 

a) give passengers who are vaccinated or unvaccinated visible identification such as wristbands 

b) make everyone wear a mask regardless of vaccination status

 

Won't do wrist bands or the like. Will probably rely on the truthfulness of pax or require everyone to wear a mask. 

22 hours ago, missy2662 said:

Which Club Mini Suite would you recommend R 432 or L 108 on Majestic?  

L108 unless it's windy - then the cabin can vibrate (it really can) or you can hear the wind howling and are unable to open the balcony door.

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

Yes they can! And quite right too.

No - they can't force a needle in your arm. They can require vaccine verification when departing from certain ports (they can't in FL or in AL (AL just passed a law)). 

2 hours ago, cangelmd said:

Come on Tee, you're dealing with the government. The instructions date back to the height of the pandemic.

I'm more concerned about Florida - does this mean the negotiations/plans to circumvent Florida's don't ask about vaccines law aren't going well?

No way to circumvent FL law unless a court invalidates it (and the appeal process has run its coure). Cruise lines are doing this (in part) so they can depart out of Miami, Port Everglades, and Port Canaveral. 

42 minutes ago, IntrepidFromDC said:

Hopefully this means Carnival is right behind.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/royal-caribbean-first-cruise-line-with-cdc-approval-to-sail-us-waters/vi-AAKnyPm?ocid=msedgntp

I suspect Carnival is gearing up for this, too.

18 minutes ago, queenkathryn said:

Why are there no cruises showing up departing from Port Everglades?  I love that port.

FL law prevents any company doing business in FL from requiring a vaccine verification. Once that have been ironed out, we'll see cruises out of FL sometime in the future.

On 5/3/2021 at 1:01 PM, Horizon chaser 1957 said:

I don’t. Hence the ‘in my opinion’ not ‘due to my superior all seeing medical knowledge’.  Any longer cruise seems to have what’s lovingly known as cruise crud give a lot of passengers coughs and sniffles. They don’t end the cruise for it. The studies so far indicate that while breakthrough cases can happen, serious illness and death don’t. They indicate that the level of risk drops dramatically. Just like crossing the street, it all depends on what level of risk you’re comfortable with to make the go/ no go decision.

Actually serious illness and death have resulted even with the vaccination. Not large numbers though. 300 have died and thousands have been hospitalized with Covid after being fully vaccinated.