ChutChut

2 hours ago, sfaaa said:

If everyone on board is vaccinated,  there should not be any COVID issue.  Israel is the proof.

Not quite. No vaccine is 100% and someone could go into port and become infected and bring it back on the ship. 

50 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

 

It is not ambiguous at all. The message clearly says ALL GUESTS 16 AND OVER MUST BE VACCINATED.  “All” means “All”.  The only unvaccinated guests would be 15 and younger. Anyone between 2 and 15 must be tested.  

You're right. The law going through Congress essentially mandates it.

32 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

It could be a situation where the Alaskan authorities insisted on vaccinated passengers in order to allow the sailings.  

I think that mandate was written into the law making its way through Congress. I don't believe AK insisted on it as the AK governor issued an EO prohibiting vaccine requirements for traveling to and within the state. His EO doesn't govern private businesses though.

48 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

I  just read the letter from Scott A. Rivkees, M.D. to RCC.  Dr. Rivkees writes that the Florida Department of Health (not the State of Florida) "has limited statutory authority with respect to cruise lines, and the Department's permission is not required for your company to resume operations."  Dr. Rivkees then discusses the CDC/Florida litigation and says in the event the Conditional Sailing Order is upheld, "this letter satisfies the requirement that your company receive approval from the Department."

 

Dr. Rivkees makes clear he is writing on behalf of the Department of Health, not for the State of Florida as a whole. 

Exactly. Thank you for the clarification. 

On 5/19/2021 at 11:49 AM, coffeebean said:

Then why do I keep hearing how the mRNA vaccines are protective against the variants that are circulating at this time? This was also stated by the CDC and why they are lifting mask mandates for vaccinated people outdoors and indoors. I know I heard the CDC state that the vaccines are protective against the variants. Or......did I dream that?

Neither Moderna nor Pfizer trials incorporated variants the way J&J did. 

On 5/18/2021 at 11:37 AM, Becrisler said:

We are in the process of selecting our rooms (4 cabins) and wanted to know if anyone can tell us what this white space is behind interior cabins M124 and M125 on the Regal Princess? Specifically if it's use would disturb those in those two cabins. I've searched for videos of the hallway and can't seem to find the answer. 

It very well could be a crew passage/stairs. I try to avoid any cabin directly adjacent to this type of white space.

On 5/14/2021 at 12:13 PM, markham said:

In countries whose health services are centrally administered this will not be an issue. Maybe the US will catch up.

 

How so? Starting this Monday my UK National Health Service app will show on a discrete screen the details of my 2 vaccinations. Which makes life easier for Seabourn when we checkin for the July cruises. This, along with coordination with Greece and the EU, make us good to go for Ovation.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Vaccinations records/mandates are reserved to the states in the US.

1 hour ago, nocl said:

Yes and no.  It is clear that the feds control the rules dealing with international ships entering the US and docking at ports. 

 

However, the ports in Florida are either owned by the state or by local government. Those agencies also run the ports, not an agency of the federal government.  

 

There are cases where State and local agencies have prevented ships from docking (the Grand in California is a good example). 

 

Also note that ships in port follow state law when it comes to things like sales taxes and in Texas state liquor laws. So clearly state laws can impact ships operations in port.

 

The state and/or local agency could make a decision to shutdown a port.  

 

Clearly once a ship has left port the state would have no influence.

 

But it is rather unclear if a cruise line, operating in a port, checking vaccination status of passengers while in port could do so or not.  It will make for a rather interesting court case that could run the range from states rights, to the commerce clause, to maritime law and treaties.

 

Unfortunately, as much as I would like the cruise lines require vaccination, this could make a very interesting fight that could take some time working its way through the court system if the cruise lines do try and challenge the California law.

 

Also wonder if the cruise lines might use this as a reason why they will not require vaccination for cruises from the US and try the strategy with the CDC that state law prevents it.

 

 

very astute analysis.

46 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

The way I understand how these mRNA vaccines work, the test trials data shows that 95% of people did not contract Covid, meaning 95% of people had immunity to Covid. Then, 5% of people did not have immunity and therefore those people came down with Covid. OK....so that 5% were the unlucky ones BUT......those 5% still had protection of not getting moderate or severe symptoms and did not need hospitalization.

 

In real life efficiency, the mRNA vaccines have performed even better. Those vaccines, in real life efficiency, are showing more like 98 to 99% have immunity from Covid and the rest are the unlucky ones who contract the disease. Those unlucky ones still do have protection from moderate to severe symptoms and those people also have protection from not needing hospitalization.

 

Am I understanding the trials efficacy and real life efficiency correctly?

yes - that's my understanding. However, I am seeing new CDC stats about breakthrough illnesses and death. I think only a few hundred of fully vaxxed have contracted Covid and passed away thus far. Unsure about the number of hospitalizations. Regardless - small, small number given the millions that have been vaxxed already. 

12 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

The efficacy fluctuates based on follow up data. 
Efficacy of all 3 FDA approved vaccines is floating around 83%-85%  currently. Statistically insignificant differences between the 3. 

Thank you for the info!

25 minutes ago, cruisegus said:

Based on information I believe to be true.  I am fully vaccinated and no longer worry about having Covid or catching it in any circumstance weather around non-vaccinated or not .

 

Reference the News story of 8 MLB players or staff testing positive last week.  Again context, all had single shot J&J (less than 80% efficacy).  All but one of the coaches and staff members who tested positive are asymptomatic. the other one had mild symptoms.  So if they were not constantly testing in MLB, 7 of the 8 would have never know they had it.

 

Just let me on a cruise ship, i know my risk and I'm good with it

Just a note about J&J - the efficacy was affected by the fact its trials were conducted later than Moderna and Pfizer and, unlike the other two, accounted for Covid variants. So in the end, they're all highly effective and all three have had breakthrough Covid cases - not unusual.

25 minutes ago, dswallow said:

Well, all I can add to the conversation is that it may not prove to be necessary to get vaccinated to have protection against COVID-19 if you've previously been infected. But it also has not been shown that getting vaccinated is detrimental, in any way whatsoever, to protection against COVID-19 in those who have had it. 

 

So, all things considered, why wouldn't I get vaccinated against it once I could? Especially if I'm not among those with any history of reactions to the ingredients of the vaccines (yes the ingredients are published for this very reason). 

 

The potential damaging effects from COVID-19 are enough to make me want to do what I can to ensure I'm protected from the worst of it.

 

 

Very good points! Moreover, the vaccine is "free" (albeir with our taxpayer dollars). Unless there's a medical reason why one couldn't get it, I see no downside. 

15 hours ago, CruisingHogFan said:

I had Covid 4 months ago and still

have some side effects. I listen to my doctor and also friends in the medial profession and got the vaccine after 90 days. Seems like this is the general consensus from just about all health care providers that are taking this seriously. 
 

Your information is really bad....

Glad you're ok!

18 hours ago, 3kidsncats said:

The only tidal wave I know of that destroyed a cruise ship was in Poseidon Adventure.  I think if you had actual statistics on both scenarios, Covid would be higher

I loved that movie!

21 hours ago, ace2542 said:

Because I don't know how to work these fancy things. The computer (pc tower) has a cable in the back to the router which is connected to the telephone to allow access to the internet and that works for me. Fantastically I might add.

Trust me - I avoided getting an iPad for the longest time (not great at tech stuff) until I had major surgery a couple of years ago and had three weeks of recovery.  The iPad is so simple - even I learned in a flash. It's great. I go everywhere with it. I understand your reluctance though. Change it hard - but you'll be glad you did. Take the plunge!!!!

On 5/16/2021 at 8:22 AM, smokeybandit said:

The CDC can't mandate a vaccine. That's why they haven't done it yet. 

Absolutely correct.

16 hours ago, exm said:

 

Not sure what to make of this, but at this moment in time in the US no one should die of Covid: you either get the vaccine, you take precautions if you can't or you take your chance. Everyone can get the vaccine if you want to. Let's open up without restrictions. Foreigners entering our country should prove they're vaccinated, period (obviously, except on the Southern border but that's a whole other story).

Unfortunately, people who have gotten the vaccine have gotten Covid and died. Only a few hundred so far - but it does happen (mostly in people older than 60).

On 5/15/2021 at 6:57 PM, BOOKBOOKBOOK said:

 

I definitely share your concern that it will be important for cruise lines to find a way to determine whether or not someone is truly vaccinated.

 

It is easy to duplicate/fake the vaccine cards on their surface, but faking a manufacturer, lot number, vaccine provider, and date of dose(s) will be very difficult. While it may be easy for a passenger to slip through the cruise terminal showing a fake card, once the cruise line does further inspection on the back end during and/or after the cruise, they can verify the hard-to-fake entries on the card.

 

If a passenger is found to have shown a fake card, the cruise line can then impose hefty penalties, including but not limited to pursuing legal action (perhaps getting the feds involved) and lifetime bans. Should an outbreak occur and the cruise line incurs financial damages, they could even make the fake cardholder partially liable via a passenger agreement that they sign before boarding.

 

With all this in mind, I highly doubt that anyone would try to fake their way through in the first place. The risk is just too high.

Issue is there is no central repository for these vaccine lots. Each state (I believe) has their own though.

14 hours ago, cscurlock said:

He may feel increased pressure but like everything else that has been going on he won't change anything.  His whole premise is the issue is Federal Government overreach but in reality its State government interfering on what best for private companies business.  Something that Desantis political party affiliation has been completely against for the entire history of the party. The cruising industry has not asked him to step in, they are not party to any lawsuits.   The CDC has provided them a path forward that they agree with and he has put himself in the middle of that path.  

I see your point but it's not quite that - he's concerned (rightly so) with medical privacy issues and being compelled to divulge medical information in order to transact business. He believes he's on the side of individual liberty which is consistent with the party's platform.

1 hour ago, cscurlock said:

Not yet.  I assume the cruise lines are still talking with the CDC to get approval in on the next phase they need to pass.  Ncl's path is much easier taking the vaccinated route as there are less requirements so I suspect they will be the first to sail.

As long as NCL doesn't plan on embarking, etc. in Florida. It will have to comply with FL law. Now - I predict the parties (CDC, cruise lines, FL) will come to some compromise in the near future.

5 hours ago, bbnmom said:

I am fully vaccinated as is my husband. It wouldn't bother me if there were others on the ship that were not vaccinated. I would not plan on getting up close and personal. All that being said my husband gave blood the other week and one of the perk test they ran was an antibody test and yes he has immunity. I have not but we had the same side effects from the vaccine so I assume I also have the antibodies.

 

There is no immunity - only much less chance you'll get it or die from it. You still can be infected with Covid and fall ill after full vaccination.

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Not needed.  You sign a statement that you are vaccinated.  If you are the carrier starting infections on a ship you become legally liable for all costs and fines/incarceration.  Simple.

What if you're vaccinated and still contract Covid (very possible) and "pass" it on to someone else, still liable? What about flu? What if you fail to get a flu vaccine and you pass it on to someone vulnerable and they die - are you liable? I can think of many more scenarios. Slippery slope.

1 hour ago, flyhi120 said:

I was told by Celebrity to bring the vaccination card and, to be save, the doctors or health departments report of your vaccinations. I went to the Martin County Health Department in Florida and it listed all my vaccinations from 2013 when I moved to Florida including the 2 Moderna shots.  Now we need to get Governor DeSantis to let the cruise lines require vaccination proof of the passengers and crew.  Delta Airlines just said they will not hire any new employee without of Covid Vaccination.  DeSantis are you going to tell Delta they can’t fly from Florida?

I don't think the law applies to the employer/employee relationships. Only businesses/customers.

15 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

Someone with mild symptoms probably wouldn't even see the ship's doctor.  Even if they did, they could easily just be quarantined.  It's a severe case that could make them scramble to figure out what to do with the person.  I don't think that will happen if they test all of the unvaccinated before they enter the ship.  

A person is unlikely to go from testing negative to needing hospitalization in less than 7 days.  Hopefully, high risk people will be vaccinated, then it reduces the odds even further.

Absolutely agree!

29 minutes ago, florida eagle said:

This is not just about mask and mask less. A small amount of the population may be vindictive. They pass along illnesses to others. They will do it with flus and other forms of viruses. They will do it with this if it takes on another. There are employees of places that will do it and have done it as well as the citizen for whatever reason. This does no one on any side of the issue any good.

WUT??????