ChutChut

2 hours ago, CruiseRQA said:

I think the issue at hand is child trafficking.   Certainly a crime.   In this case we have a white father with (we know now) an Asian daughter.   How is it "racist" for the white father to have been suspected of something and therefore asked to provide additional documentation.   They were acting to protect and Asian girl.

 

Now I agree completely that the port authorities were acting stupidly and ignorantly.   They seemed to have been poorly trained.   There seemed to have been absent procedures to quickly and professionally deal with this.    All of this could be the likely explanation rather than racism.   Again again, the person being "accused" is a white guy!

Got it. I thought the poster suggested someone was accusing the port agent of the "crime" of racism. Too much wine......

2 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

As someone who checks-in passengers for Alaska cruises, I am trying to figure out what happened in this situation.  My gut tells me that it was not racially motivated, as we see many different types of families cruising.  As additional street cred, I am also the parent of an internationally adopted child, and I do not share the same last name as my spouse.  So I understand the nuances of traveling with an adopted child.

 

I am wondering if there had been some sort of past incident or problem either at the embarkation pier, or at another terminal that caused corporate to ask check-in agents to be hyper-vigilant with checking in.

 

I also wonder if the entire family of 6 (and 3 staterooms) were sent to different agents for check-in.  It would be surprising if a single check-in agent checking in a family of 6, all with the same last name, all traveling with passports, would question the family relationship.

 

If the family was being checked-in  by different agents, I wonder how the staterooms were divided between the two adult parents, and the 21 yr old adult son, and the two 17 yr old twin boys, and the 17 yr old daughter.  How the staterooms were booked - particularly who the 17 yr old young woman was booked to share a room with, could have played a role in this saga - especially if she was booked with an adult male.   Again, if the embarkation port was on a higher alert for possible trafficking, or questionable situations, it is possible that the staff was playing it safe, and making sure that the 17 yr old was really safe traveling.

 

I am also curious why this took 30 minutes, multiple supervisors, and even the ship's Documentation Officer to get involved.

 

I know when Royal Caribbean rolled out their Minor Child Consent to Travel crackdown last summer, it caused lots of delayed embarkations for families.  We were waiting for Celebrity to start as well, but they said that it was going to be put off, and we didn't have to deal with it during the Alaska season.  I wonder if Celebrity's minor travel consent rollout just recently happened and that may have played a role in your delayed embarkation.

 

In any case, I am glad that it all worked out for you, and I hope that the rest of the cruise was enjoyable.

Sorry but I don't buy it. Same thing happened to me and my daughter. It was racial - that was obvious. There's no reason to single out a person of a different color. Entirely inappropriate and outrageous. 

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

How dare anyone ask for proof or disagree with the mob!. 

Proof of what? Are you suggesting multi-racial families should be targeted?

47 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Where in the world did you get that? I said paying and having proper documentation DOES necessarily give them the right to board. 

My sincere apologies!

5 hours ago, soapbxking said:

Kudos for Celebrity taking this issue seriously  This was my area of expertise for almost 28 years(deling with sex offenders and victims of such).  People should stop whining and live within the rules.  yes i understand delays etc, but if proper rules are followed i have no issue.

Are you suggesting that it's acceptable to single out a person solely based on race? If so, I've got lots of federal and state laws you might want to peruse and digest. They WEREN'T following the rules. They WERE ignoramuses. To suggest that multi-racial families should shut up and take the abuse is outrageous. 

10 minutes ago, gordiej said:

I don't know why this is so hard. John & Patricia Murphy show up with two minors. All have passports. One minor's name is Dylan Murphy, the other minor's name is Peter Murphy. Only one of the minors is the son of John & Patricia. Can you tell which one from the passports?

You're right - you can't tell from the passport itself. However, in order to obtain the passport for the child, you have to submit the birth cert., certificate of citizenship, show up with the kid to submit the paperwork, etc. So, it's already been scrutinized.

3 hours ago, flviking said:

As I'm so certain this could only be about protecting children I wonder why we haven't heard about background checks for all passengers to assure there are no sex offenders on board.

 

My sister and BIL adopted three young girls to join their family of four. The bigotry so often directed at them as a multiracial family was amazing and appalling.  She got so tired of it her stock response became "i have five children who have four different fathers who are not all the same race or ethnicity. Do you have anything else to say?"  Every "concerned" bigot then walked away.

 

Hopefully the family can get some legal help to remind Celebrity of these children's civil rights.

My daughter and I have been given so many side looks, stares, disapproving glances, etc. I taught her early to ignore the ignorant fools and low-IQ imbeciles. When other kids (when she was very young - doesn't happen now) would make the "slant eye" when asking where were her eyelids, she just laughed and told them she thought her eye shape was pretty cool. A cashier at Target asked me "how much did she cost?" I told her the kid was priceless and pricey! A dude in Starbucks muttered under his breath that "Chinese Commies shouldn't be allowed" in "his" country. Little did he know my kid is an unabashed Capitalist. I've learned to accept these indignities and just walk on, but, sometimes, I wonder how they have affected my daughter. She says she doesn't care, but, I think, deep down, it hurts her. 

17 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Paying the cruise fare and having the proper documentation as listed in the cruise contract does necessarily give them a paid pass onto the ship. 

Are you suggesting that proper skin color of the parents, etc. should be part of the criteria??????

2 minutes ago, markeb said:

I've followed this for the last day and a half. One thing I'm finding fascinating in the responses is the assumption that the OP is white and the daughter black. Nowhere in his posts does the OP say that. There was one place where he replied and could have corrected the assumption and didn't, so maybe that's true. He only stated in the original post that they were of different races. 

 

What if the OP is black and the daughter Asian? Or the OP is Asian and the daughter is white (or black)? Would people recognize that as racist in this case?

 

Just an overall bad situation and a bad look on Celebrity. The employee/contractor needs some serious training. The OP met all of Celebrity's requirements for boarding. Making up new ones is insane. And other than the racial difference nothing in this situation would suggest trafficking and in 2023 that should hardly be sufficient. 

 

Hope they get some resolution. 

Great points!

Some replies seem to scoff at the idea that this might have been racial profiling, etc. Until you have stood there, been singled out for no apparent reason other than the ethnicity difference, and made to feel like a second-class citizen, you really don't know anything. To have to stand there and have your young daughter verify to some idiot that you are her mother, etc. It's humiliating and degrading. Now - if this was the procedure for EVERYONE - fine. But it isn't - it's reserved - it seems - for families whose children have different skin color. So, before you minimize OP's situation, place yourself in his/her/kid's shoes. It's not right and shouldn't be tolerated.

18 hours ago, critic2023 said:

Let's say that someone saw this family at the cruise terminal, and picked up some warning signs that they thought this young lady may be a victim of trafficking. Totally independent of race - let's say it was other warning signs that had nothing to do with the way she looked as compared to the rest of the family. And then, on top of it all, they find out that she is a minor once they ask for identification. Why on earth would they not ask for the same paperwork (adoption records,  birth certificates, etc.) from the other minors in the group?  If these people are supposedly suspected of trafficking one minor, why would the same precautions not be taken for the other minors in the group?

 

It was racial profiling, plain and simple. And I don't think OP is looking for a "free cruise," as others have suggested - I just think he is hoping changes are made and other families are not subjected to the same treatment. I'm sure it was not pleasant for anyone in his party, most of all his poor daughter.

Well said. This also happened to me and my different-race daughter. It was very clear what was going on. 

36 minutes ago, At Sea At Peace said:

 

1.  Well, then let's hear WHY you believe your one kid, among hundreds of families, were singled out and by whom is the "they?"

 

They (identify who/whom) singled your kid and your family out because ~

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

2.  What do want?  An apology, a free cruise, both or both with money?

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

______________________________________________________________

 

Of course no one knows for sure but it's quite curious that a multi-racial family was singled out among hundreds of families. Could be stupidity, lack of training, or - to a thinking person and one whose child also was singled out on a different cruise - racial bias/profiling, etc. Second question - I think the OP says he/she wants an apology and more training. 

33 minutes ago, CruiseRQA said:

I don't know what "adoption papers" consist of so I can't answer this.   But again, the people being "accused" of a crime in this scenario are white and the child that is trying to be protected is not white.    Which is why this incident is more likely than not a result of stupidity, ignorance and/or poor training rather than racism.  

I don't see where anyone is being accused of a crime. Please explain what "crime?" Racism is not a "crime" unless it's attached to an actual crime like murder, assault, etc. 

23 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I wouldn’t take kids that age on Celebrity myself…it will be nothing like those 3 lines you referenced. 

I took my then ten-year-old daughter on the Celebrity Silhouette several years back and she loved it. Celebrity is not an adult-only cruise line. There are lots of things to do for kids and adults. 

1 minute ago, mphooker said:

I'm the mom of the girl posted about.  It was completely humiliating to my entire family of 6.  They actually out loud asked "Is she adopted?"  She knows she is and she answered to it.  They still made it out like we could not board that ship with her if we didn't have adoption paperwork.  Never in her 17 years have we had to prove that and I've even traveled internationally with her.  

 

But here's the other thing that bothers me...How likely is a sex trafficker going to have a passport AND pay for all this to go on a cruise?  I'd like to know those percentages.  

 

I'm so sorry it happened to you. I understand the humiliation. I should have raised it at the time but was afraid the Irish authorities (onboard a Princess ship) would find some reason to prevent us from entering the country. Looking back, I should have done what you're doing - address it with the cruise line and inform others that this practice is taking place. 

1 minute ago, prmssk said:

Same last name, same address, has a US passport that required permission from parents to obtain (along with documentation they are the child's legal parents) - this wasn't about preventing human trafficking.

 

(On another note that has come up in this thread, it is also my understanding that port staff are not cruise line employees.  They just wear the shirt of the cruise line they are serving that day.)

True - they are contracted. But if they're wearing a uniform reflecting the cruise line, then the cruise line must ensure they are trained properly, etc. I had a port authority person intentionally separate me from my then 8-year-old daughter as she descended the escalator into a crowd of hundreds of people disembarking a cruise. He refused to allow me to descend with her as he claimed I didn't have two free hands to use the escalator (I did have two free hands but envisioned both of them being around his pencil neck). He detained me for 10 minutes and threatened to call the cops. When I finally caught up with my kid, a kind couple was waiting with her. However, someone could have lured her away, etc. in that time. Needless to say, Princess compensated me for that debacle. 

2 minutes ago, wahooker said:

Same last name, same address. However, they never even looked at the Driver's license that my daughter tried to show them. Once we said she was Adopted, they wouldn't look at anything except to demand the original adoption paperwork.

They demanded ORIGINAL adoption docs??? OMG - I have those in a safe deposit box. I always bring copies - just in case some id*ot gets off on authority crap and racially profiles us again. This racial profiling really is getting old. If they have reasonable suspicion of trafficking based on non-discriminatory indications - that's fine. But to single out multi-racial families and - essentially - shame them - isn't okay. 

4 minutes ago, dleahy4444 said:

I completely agree. I’m blond and fair skinned but I was raised with my sister who was African American. I saw firsthand how differently we were treated in the same exact settings, how we were constantly questioned when we introduced each other as sisters. 

Yep and it makes the kids (and the parents) uncomfortable and feel like second-class citizens. I understand the whole human trafficking concerns, etc. but it seems that authorities have decided the way to detect it is to single out multi-racial families. When it happened to me and my daughter on Princess, I didn't pursue it because I didn't want any blowback that might impact our ability to enter the various countries we were visiting. 

2 minutes ago, dleahy4444 said:

Was she the only child in the car with you? Would you feel the same if you had 3 other children in the car, one of which was of a different skin tone and they asked that question of just that child? Maybe race wasn’t an issue in the case of the OP, but when the different race  child is singled out, it makes you wonder. 

It happened to me and my Asian daughter (I'm Caucasian). Multi-racial families are but a small percentage of families but it seems we get this treatment a lot more often that families of one race. Unless there is some evidence or reasonable suspicion to implicate trafficking, etc. it is inappropriate and, basically, racial profiling to subject our families to this without subjecting ALL families to this. 

11 minutes ago, MagPie60 said:

https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter-areas/border-security/how-airport-and-seaport-employees-can-help-stop-human-trafficking/

 

My biological daughter was asked if I was her mother when she was about 8 or 9 - crossing a land border into the USA. We are obviously the same race, and she resembles me quite strongly (poor kid)

 

Again, I can understand why the OP was so upset, and feel that PE and/or Celebrity were over-zealous to say the least. Just not 100% convinced the issue was entirely about race. 

I would bet it happens a lot more with multi-racial families though. It happened to me and my different-race daughter although we had all necessary documentation. There's a huge racial element going on and it's not okay. 

3 hours ago, Homosassa said:

Kudos to the shore side staff on being aware of the trafficking issues of children in the day and age and taking the time to be sure that your adopted daughter was truly traveling with parents.

 

I suggest that you avoid this problem in the future by having the adoption papers with you.

Nah - not an inkling of trafficking to justify this. Pure racial stereotyping and discrimination. 

38 minutes ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Sadly we live in a world where girls and young women are at risk.  The terminal employees may have been overzealous but what if they had been right and she was in danger?

Doesn't justify it in this situation as all the papers were in order. Seems entirely based on race with no inkling of trafficking. 

I had the same thing happen to me on Princess when we had to present our passports to the Irish custom authorities. My daughter is Asian (I'm not) and they asked me to step aside and privately questioned me about whether my daughter was actually mine. They actually asked my daughter if I was her mother. She was 6 at the time. She and I live at the same residence and share the same last name. I had my adoption docs with me and showed them to the individual. I understand the sex trafficking issue, but I felt this was completely based on race. Given I'm white and my daughter isn't. I didn't make any "waves," but I felt singled out and uncomfortable that they asked my kid if I was her mom. Other passengers had kids, and I didn't see anyone else have to endure that type of scrutiny as they all were the same race, etc. 

I guess the cat's "out of the bag" so to speak....

Yes. Jump on it if it's only $180 in total.