Isabella Benjamin

deleted

Aside from Italy, the UK has the most cases of anyone in Europe.

This is puzzling. 

You have to do the math here.  If 8% of the people from 70 - 79 and almost 15% of people 80 and above die from the virus, they have to look at what capacity the ship has to handle this if they have an outbreak.

It's just good planning.  

The CDC today was saying that the mortality rate for coronavirus is 10 times that of seasonal flu.  I heard an epidemiologist say that we are on track to be on the same trajectory to be where Italy is in just two weeks.  She said we need to stop non-essential travel now.

In two weeks we may well have a policy that stops non-essential travel.  

7 minutes ago, roger001 said:

That link is the worst pop up and ad link I think I've ever tried.  Never did see the new article.  

Here are some highlights:

The worker also says NCL seems more worried about its profits than the health and safety of travelers — and some sales staffers now feel pressured to persuade customers not to cancel their trips. Some customers, despite their concerns, have caved and kept their reservations. Many more are canceling cruises, even if it means losing thousands of dollars.

The employee who spoke with New Times says they have not personally used any of the "one-liners" with clients because they feel uncomfortable doing so. They spent most of a recent workday taking calls from customers wanting to cancel.

The worker also says NCL seems more worried about its profits than the health and safety of travelers — and some sales staffers now feel pressured to persuade customers not to cancel their trips. Some customers, despite their concerns, have caved and kept their reservations. Many more are canceling cruises, even if it means losing thousands of dollars.

The employee who spoke with New Times says they have not personally used any of the "one-liners" with clients because they feel uncomfortable doing so. They spent most of a recent workday taking calls from customers wanting to cancel.

We are hardly selling anything," the employee says. "Sales are at serious lows."

The stories they are telling people to keep those reservations flowing, and people are more than willing to believe them.  This is not going to end well. 

Sales at Norwegian are incredibly low right now and they've requested employees lie about the potential danger of the virus.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/inter-miami-2020-the-five-types-of-fans-11583780

The risks right now are than you could potentially be on a ship that isn't allowed into any port, having the ship quarantined, not having control over when you would return home, you getting sick and spreading the virus in your community when you do go home.  

You just have to weigh the positives and the negatives and see how things stack up for you and your kids.  

We booked our October cruise when there was a $50 deposit special.  It will probably be ok to cruise by then, but I don't feel comfortable giving them full payment 4 months in advance, so we'll probably cancel and pick a cruise when we get much closer to sail date.

We'll see if when we cancel we get our deposit back on our credit card or applied to future cruise.  I'm just glad it's a small enough amount that I don't care.    We don't have to cancel for a few months and the policy could change several times between now and then. 

5 minutes ago, turtlegirl2 said:

I believe they are US companies but they use a legal loophole to register their ships in other countries to avoid following US employment laws for ships’ crew. Their US based staff all have to be paid following US laws. So, a bailout might be possible. I do hope the cruise lines take care of their ship staff during this time and not just their pocketbooks. 

They are domiciled in Bermuda and based in the United States. They run all of their profits through Bermuda.  

7 minutes ago, turtlegirl2 said:

And they will probably get a government bailout to keep the, “afloat”. I do hope we can use our FCC if that is the case. My husband is still mad to this day that he didn’t buy Bank of America stock when it plunged in the 08-09 recession... 😩

I don't think we should bail out foreign companies who have very few US employees.  

2 minutes ago, Farts said:

That seems weird. Why wouldn't you put them on the vent if they needed it? your statement in red makes no sense

 

I am an American doc. IDK if italy has a superior health care system than the states. Their government support them a lot more. Testing is a joke here in the states.

They aren't putting them on vents because they have run out.  You have to choose who gets the vents and who does not.  200% capacity means there simply isn't enough to go around.

This is one of several things I've read about what's going on in Italy:

"From a well respected friend and intensivist/A&E consultant who is currently in northern Italy: 1/ ‘I feel the pressure to give you a quick personal update about what is happening in Italy, and also give some quick direct advice about what you should do.

First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country.

The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity.

We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. There are hundreds of pts with severe resp failure and many of them do not have access to anything above a reservoir mask.

Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest. Staff are working as much as they can but they are starting to get sick and are emotionally overwhelmed.

My friends call me in tears because they see people dying in front of them and they con only offer some oxygen. Ortho and pathologists are being given a leaflet and sent to see patients on NIV. PLEASE STOP, READ THIS AGAIN AND THINK.

We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere, this is the pattern: 1)A few positive cases, first mild measures, people are told to avoid ED but still hang out in groups, everyone says not to panick 2)Some moderate resp failures and a few severe ones that need tube, but regular access to ED is significantly reduced so everything looks great

3)Tons of patients with moderate resp failure, that overtime deteriorate to saturate ICUs first, then NIVs, then CPAP hoods, then even O2. 4)Staff gets sick so it gets difficult to cover for shifts, mortality spikes also from all other causes that can’t be treated properly. Everything about how to treat them is online but the only things that will make a difference are: do not be afraid of massively strict measures to keep people safe, if governments won’t do this at least keep your family safe, your loved ones with history of cancer or diabetes or any transplant will not be tubed if they need it even if they are young. By safe I mean YOU do not attend them and YOU decide who does and YOU teach them how to.  Another typical attitude is read and listen to people saying things like this and think “that’s bad dude” and then go out for dinner because you think you’ll be safe. We have seen it, you won’t be if you don’t take it seriously. I really hope it won’t be as bad as here but prepare."

Let's be clear about why Italy has put their entire country under quarantine.

Their hospitals are at 200% of capacity right now.  When someone shows up with double interstitial pneumonia and is over 65, they are not being treated at all.  If someone shows up with double pneumonia under 65 with certain underlying health conditions they do not get treated.  Only the people with a very good chance of surviving are getting treated, and almost everyone who is bad enough to show up at the hospital with the virus already has pneumonia.

Italy has a superior health system to the US and are far more ready to handle the virus and it is crushing them.  

We are so far behind in every way.  It still may be weeks before we can adequately test.  The WHO offered the US tests, but for some odd reason we refused them.  

We have no way to gauge how bad the virus is here, because we have no way of testing people.  The way the virus spreads on a plane is mainly to the people directly around the sick person.  We're talking about the two rows in front, back,  and next to that person.  Being captive on a cruise ship for a full week exposes hundreds of people who then can expose hundreds more within the week. Plus the crew who can start infecting passengers the moment they get on the boat.  

Because people are not heeding the inadequate warnings, I'm afraid that after spring break we are going to be in a far worse place than we are today. 

36 minutes ago, BoundForSea said:

Seven Short Blasts Followed by one Long is what I think Im hearing!!! 😂

 

Airlines and Cruise Lines have been living fat again, and most have long since forgotten the post 9-11 economic era for travel. This came out of nowhere for them all. Airlines have massive orders for jets that cant be delayed (most have pushed back those options as long as possible already and the lessors are holding their feet to the fires), NCL and RCL have all new very expensive equipment, and more on the way. 

 

NCL got big for their britches and as one post just said sold out their loyal past customers for new customers and pricing that had no ceiling (Haven for 16000+ for 7 nights in Alaska!!!) because they could. 

 

The Govt will provide assistance is my guess, but not to the level they need. NCL has indeed secured financing to get through the near term storm, however if they close ports and markets, Chapter 11 will be the vehicle to get them free of past debt and back on their feet. 

 

Lesson: Never say never. 

Which government?  They aren't US companies, so it would be a hard sell to the American families that are already struggling to put any tax dollars towards a company that employs only the occasional  US employee.  They don't get to flag their ships under other countries and not go by US regulations, and then get a hand out from our government.  I realize it affects the tourist industry in port cities, but help those US cities, not the cruise industry. 

Welp, just load up the debt and sell the whole company so it's someone else's problem.

2 minutes ago, akmarshall said:

I can't believe (ok, I really can) that they actually think banning travel on cruise ships will stop the spread of coronavirus. Hello! It's spread by people, regardless of whether or not they are on a cruise ship.

If it spreads too fast the hospitals will be beyond capacity.  

They would do a reorganization bankruptcy and have to repay their debts. 

Norwegian took out that loan because they know exactly what's happening going on in other countries like Italy and they may have to close up shop for months. 

12 minutes ago, CarolinaMamma said:

I have good travel insurance, but this info might just tip the scales to not sailing. Can you imagine being stuck in your cabin or on a military base for two weeks, then slapped with a bill, for an amount you had not agreed to in advance, to house and feed you?  

That's the part that's really appalling.  They aren't saying just how much they are going to charge people.  Could it be equal to the amount you paid to go on the cruise?  Probably not, but it's  any number they want to come up with.  

5 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

 

wow.. did the cruise lines know about this when they met with VP Pence yesterday?

 

I'll bet  they asked him not to put out this advisory, and he was not able to accommodate them.

Sometimes the answer is no.

The more they can keep people from gathering in large groups, the less demand there will be on our healthcare system.  We just aren't set up right now for this sort of crisis.  It's for the greater good. 

I was very surprised to see our final payment date moved to 120 days when I thought I had 90.  I'm not sure if it's changed or maybe it was always 120 and I just didn't realize.  

Personally, I don't feel good about paying for a cruise that's 4 months away.  The roller coaster of changing policies are leading me towards just booking something last minute when we're ready to go.  Luckily, our dates are very flexible. 

We're leaning towards just cancelling our next cruise and winging it.  

Just now, Mom2kmo said:

Really???   

Just guessing, but it's highly likely.  

I would guess that they have hired a damage control consultant and are sorting things out.  

They're probably too busy talking to their lawyers and accountants.  

That looks very appealing.  My next cruise isn't til October, but I'm probably going to cancel and just book something more last minute in the fall because I'm just not paying for the entire  and then having to worry about it for 4 months before sailing.