fragilek

26 minutes ago, Farts said:

 

 

Another 137 new cases. Totaling to at least 355 infected total

 

Wow. 

It is getting difficult to support the claim that all were infected before quarantine.  The maths on these figures  doesn't help support that claim. Assuming it follows most viruses pattern and time to become infected and show infections are t-distribution curves.

Experts are quoting figures of 2 to 5 days before showing symptoms others are saying infection can spread between 3 (2 on 1 paper )-14 days (may be longer but shouldn't matter to the maths if quarantine worked for those on the ship) . Taking both of that into account. Cases could still be showing up without symptoms but in a much lesser count, it should be nearing the outer edges of the curve.

There are only 2 ways this can still be happening

1. The genetic make- up of those on board is different to those in earlier published studies,  so they hoard the disease rather than develop symptoms

2. The infection has continued to spread on the ship after quarantine.

Have have seen (not hear-say people posting their on photos of things they are doing on the ship) of why reasons 2 is in play. However. there is now one paper (not yet peer reviewed) that also hints at reason 1. But it has focused on the effect/chances of having the virus becoming severe  it does not address/ investigate  non severe cases and wither they remain non symptomatic.

1 minute ago, Moparop said:

My parents and others are a (multiple?) hotels in Cambodia. They spent a day at the Phnom Penh airport in a holding area on the 15th with other passengers and were taken from there to the hotel. 

 Wishing them all the best. Do you know if they have been contacted by HAL or any official from Cambodia with instructions for containment/protection.  In fact have they even officially been told anything.

28 minutes ago, LoraJ said:

Can you only be tested if you show symptoms? My parents are in the process of flying back to the states and now I'm worried they may get quarantined. I'm supposed to see them in a few days. Hi mom if you're reading. 

It's a viral load test so will only show a positive when the load becomes detectable. After your parents arrive home that may not be until 14 days after last possible contact with anyone who is infectious (even if they do not show symptoms they may still be able to pass this on during that time). As they are travelling together that will be the day they land and go into quarantine (or self quarantine depending on country requirements. If I were you I would not see them until that time has passed.  If you do this whole situation may only extend itself. 

1 minute ago, Moparop said:

Ive been following the Westerdam hashtag pretty closely on Twitter. There’s definitely a group that has flown commercial out of Kula Lumpur on the 14th and perhaps early on the 15th.
 

My parents got to Phnom Penh around 10am and spent the day trying to get on a charter flight or even a commercial flight on their own money and were turned down at every corner. Their statement was that there were “lots of people still at the hotel”.  I’m betting there are even more still sitting in Kula Lumpur. 

 I am so sorry for the situation you and your parents find yourselves in, hope its resolved quickly but with care - best wishes

3 minutes ago, dado123456 said:

Just two thoughts:

- 14 days doesn't matter much if the first person has no symptoms and then passes virus on (let's say) 11th day to another person.

It's 25 days then.

 

 

 Exactly 14 days  clock can only start after quarantine measures in place.  Initial infected person may never become symptomatic.

2 minutes ago, Moparop said:

Based on what my parents are saying the flights from Cambodia to Malaysia were all chartered flights. Multiple of them got canceled yesterday leaving some on the ship and some in hotels in Phnom Penh. Passengers were kept in a holding area even until Kula Lumpur so there hasn’t been nearly the chance to spread the virus that some are suggesting. 

Thank you for that info-  If your parents are caught up in this I hope that they can be safely transported home soon. Does that mean no-one has got any further than Kula Lumpur, are you aware if any further measures are being taken to keep them and those around them as safe as possible until results are confirmed one way or the other.  for example masks issued, told to stay in hotel  room etc.

22 minutes ago, iancal said:

Not good news but it is hardly unexpected given the timeframe for the virus to show up.

 

self quarantine at home.  Fine, but when we return home it typically involves two or three flights.  Just think about the fellow passengers on those flights who may show similar signs in 10-14 days.

After seeing pictures and reading posts from people on the ship self quarantine will not work as some  people don't have the sense they were born with.  All the things below I have seen photos on or people on the ship have discussed themself on their facebook or own twitter accounts

1. passing a banana to an unconnected balcony 

2. Hugging people on deck during deck time (same family different cabin posted the pictures on their facebook)

3. swapping food between cabins (wine swapped for ready made noodle carton- again same family but different cabins)

4. Crew smoking on deck right next to each other.

5. from another thread an on the news CBC (I have removed the names as this point as I cant verify this story other 4 points I can)*****&********* get banned from all Carnival Corp ships for the rest of their lives. They were sick for days before advising the Diamond Princess staff according to their daughter in this article on CBC: "The elderly couple, both 75, had been dealing with symptoms over the last week, daughter *******, told Radio-Canada Saturday morning. 

After a few days dealing with a fever and cough, they contacted the medical centre where they were tested. 

"The worst symptom was definitely weakness. Over the past two days, they were just sleeping,"*****said.

Some of the Americans on the ship are not happy with the plan (they see flight as a red flag) and they are not happy that they will now need to spend more time in isolation. Also some mutterings about having to leave stuff behind as they have more luggage than they say is allowed. - I cannot verify/understand the facts of what the poster says but I can verify this is being mentioned by a US passenger on board the ship -@mjswhitebread

3 minutes ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I also thought it unwise to exchange food/drinks with neighbors because you don’t know who could be infected! I remember in a video days ago, a person above David handed him a banana. You couldn’t pay me to accept food or drinks from another passenger onboard right now. I wish they’d make an announcement to warn against doing that. 

 I haven't been following his stuff did nobody comment to him on line that this was very unwise. 

As someone who has both worked in pharmaceutical world of research ( yip I know, more contamination prevention than quarantine, but some of the same measures are used)  also as someone also had to experience full isolation (which I suppose is a  little bit different to quarantine but not that much and again follows similar protocols), a lot of what I am seeing and reading about (1st hand stuff not hear-say) would not support the position that ALL these people  have been in complete  quarantine from each other. 

I have also read on twitter that a passenger on board swapped  one of their ready meal noddle things for a bottle of wine with a different cabin (FIL's cabin, I have asked how they managed this but they haven't responded).  They put up pictures of their gained wine.  -( no idea how to now post this after the link reminder post). That sort of thing gives me an unease about how strict the quarantine aspects on the ship are.  I  understand that some will argue they sailed together before the lock down so what is the difference now- however, to me there is not only a risk here for themselves but more importantly potentially in the longer term for others.   

10 minutes ago, Host CJSKIDS said:

Just wanted to make a quick post about the copyright guidelines on here as so many are posting from articles.  I know I always have to refresh myself on the guidelines, if it's not in front of me, I forget.  As I just turned 58 this month, things are getting worse, old age LOL!!

 

The guideline is copy paste with a link.  No full cut and paste please .   A Press release from Princess is an exception.

 

There is a link to the guidelines at the top of the page if anyone has any questions or is interested in reading about any other guidelines. 

 

Thanks everyone and Happy Valentine's Day!

 

 

 

Thanks for that.  Can you tell me if I am doing something wrong as every time I post the link in it puts the whole picture on video in the post - I am hopeless at all his sort of stuff. Should that not happen? should I just see a blue link after I post it?- If so what am I doing wrong? -thanks for any help

 

 

31 minutes ago, seapals2 said:

undecided ... would prefer to make a decision based on knowledge of where I would be taken and who would be responsible for my care.  
David on the ship said today that Alan who had been taken to hospital was having conflicting test results and now has no confidence in the medical staff.  As of today he is not permitting doctors to enter his room. 
The worst possible outcome is he did not have the virus when he arrived at the hospital but then contracts it.  

 As the CDC them self have said a negative test is not 100% accurate and if symptoms are shown is to be treated as a positive.  I would imagine that if someone had low levels the viral load may be to low or the test unreliable it could give a false negative.  As time passes and with more info the testing will be improved (every thing is still in the early stages of scientific development).  Unless he is seeing isolation protocols being broken (and that can happen but usually in small community hospitals -my own experience when I was first admitted to hospital condition un-diagnosed. I should have been in isolation/reverse barrier care - but protocols were broken so often I was so scared and couldn't wait to be transferred to a proper teaching hospital's isolation unit - I remained in it for a initial stay of 7 months with no break but saw no breaches and felt secure if a little stir crazy) he would be mad to turn doctors away, this disease profile has been shown, for the unfortunate minority turn nasty very quickly between day 10 and 21.  I assume the docs would be monitoring him carefully and checking reactive CFR (this tells virus is getting worse by going up but lets doc know that symptoms are not being caused by a secondary bacterial infection and if so they would go up much higher) and may be even viral load which would give a heads up if is health is about to decline.

Also stumbled across this - the crew trying to stay as upbeat as possible 

has someone read somewhere that there will be no internet or call in land based quarantine or is it just by word of mouth.

Reason I am asking is the Japanese Authority has just give all the ship new iphones with app already to help with meds counseling etc. Or are these just for those who opt to stay on he ship

1 minute ago, hal2008 said:

 

Do virus live long in an empty house?

Different viruses live for varying lengths of time

taken from NHS web-Many different types of viruses can cause colds. The viruses can sometimes survive on indoor surfaces for more than 7 days. In general, viruses survive for longer on non-porous (water resistant) surfaces, such as stainless steel and plastics, than porous surfaces, such as fabrics and tissues.

2 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

 

You are right which begs the question you posed. Will their belongings contain traces of the virus?

That will be a similar situation to those diagnosed that have been in quarantine at home waiiung on results before trafering to hospital.  What happens to their homes?

34 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

That makes more sense then since the link had already been altered by the time I read it.

 

There is a related point though, the original comment was correct as far as protection for the flights goes though.

 

If you want to be sure that the flights are covered in the same way as the cruise you do need to book them both as a single transaction or you risk only having full protection for the cruise, not the flights.

 

Re protection for those booking in the USA I tend to agree, this is unlikely to succeed, but to the extent that some USA based TA's do clearly promote and offer their services directly to UK/EU based customers, there is at least some scope to consider that they have opened themselves up to the impact of UK consumer law...

I wouldn't think that would apply as you sign up to the terms and conditions for the area you book through so I don't think you would be able to try and align any issues with different terms and conditions

I have been following quarantinedond1 on twitter and from last night he/she has started to feel under the weather with scratching throat.  Hoping it is the air con - feeling really bad for how anxious these people are starting to sound.

My breakfast photo is from someone I have been following who on the ship via twitter @shannonvo, they have not posted since.  The other person I have been following that had posted the  port photo with the ambulances  yesterday is @quarantinedond1

33 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

Sounds like you have a huge deductible which  makes the insurance even more expensive, is this because you have pre-existing health conditions? I am not an expert, but the cancelation of a cruise by the cruise company should have nothing to do with any pre-existing health conditions. My wife and I are both 70 and we buy travel insurance for all cruises and international travel, but at least for now, we do not have any pre-existing health conditions. I just paid our Viking ocean cruise for this September and our cruise cost plus air is about $15,000, but the insurance with no deductibles was only $679 per person. I did not think that was too expensive for the amount of coverage. This is not a policy that allows us to cancel for any reason, but if one of us or our immediate family members has a medical emergency that keeps us from going on the trip,  we are covered. We also have full medical coverage for any thing that could happen on the cruise with this insurance since Medicare does not cover us outside of the country.

 I have very complex medical needs- 3 serious conditions, 2 of which would require asap evacuation to large hospital/ for one that evacuation may need to be done under quarantine for my own protection.

20 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

f are you indicating that your deductible is £500 per person??

 

WOW - that is a bit steep and in some cases not worth it, I Am sure.

 

In health and bon voyage

£500 for world except Mexico (it must be more).  £300 for EU (that includes some extra places like turkey)

Worth it only if I take ill on holiday and then I won't really be focused on my excess.

Only 3 companies would insure me - so can't shop around- the one I chose had a more exess +£100 over other 2 but was £350 cheaper in total.  

We have been lucky so far, we did have to cancel one trip  but the companies involved were very generous - shout out to Virgin Atlantic (money refunded  canceled day before due to leave) and Easy Jet who gave us a credit note for total price.  Hotels were refundable.  Touch wood- haven't had to use it since I came out of hospital 

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

If you have travel insurance and the flights were covered under the insurance, you should receive a full refund from the insurance since the cruise was cancelled. We always include our flights and cost in our travel insurance for this reason.

 I know every one means well when they talk insurance - and I for one wouldn't travel without it.  But some of us with health conditions have very large excesses to pay if we cancel mine is £500 each person on my insurance policy (anyone traveling with me as we make sure we are group booked in case I have to cancel).  I struggle to find any insurance at all and pay a small fortune for sometimes more than my cruise fare (for cheaper cruises). 

I am not arguing over the cost  and the excess I pay of the policy (I appreciate I am hard to insure).  But it becomes very difficult to just get money back as we would loose £1000 if just 2 of us going in the summer there was 8 of us traveling together for a big family celebration that would have been £8000) - I don't know what the solution should/would be as this is a no-win situation for every one.  But just stressing that having insurance isn't a get out of jail free card for some of us.

todays breakfast this arrived hot so not sure if it indicates still being made on board  or if not must be catering set up alongside the ship.

The passenger posting has been upbeat bout her tone seemed more dispondent today and they are on a suite with a balcony

They have stated they are getting 9.30 am cookies and evening soda deliveries and think that staff should cut this extra task

Looks like meals have may be changed to outsource delivery

lunch - tues

dinner tues

here is the photo of the ambulances that arrived ship side 5 hrs ago.  I haven't heard anything else since this was posted