Operational Overnights - No More Forced Overnights

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

I don't know if this has been the subject of a previous post - if so, my apologies, but we have just become aware of it with Princess. We booked a cruise Acapulco to Fort Lauderdale for Christmas - paid in full on Monday; on Thursday our TA got a message from Princess that we would have to pay for our own hotel in LAX (flying Vancouver - Acapulco) as the flight to Acapulco was early in the morning and they couldn't connect us all in one trip. Now, to my way of thinking that's a forced overnight the cruise lines should pick up the air; my TA thought so too, but it turns out Princess doesn't do forced overnights any more and this is an Operational Overnight - so Princess wants $115.00 for the hotel; and of course we can't cancel because we' ve done our final payment and we'd be in penalty if we cancelled. They have us no matter which way they turn. Apparently its not only us, either - there are hundreds of people in this situation and Princess can't afford to pay the hotels for everyone, so they are paying for no one. I think once you've made final payment they shouldn't be able to come back on you four days later and say, oh by the way, now you have to pay for a hotel when they have NEVER, at any time previously said we would have to do that. I think Princess will have a big PR problem on their hands with this one - lots of unhappy people, I would think - including us!!

 

YaYa

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

Sorry - just reread my post and realized I said Princess should pick up the air - when I meant to say Hotel:o

[captainron]

I don't know if this has been the subject of a previous post - if so, my apologies, but we have just become aware of it with Princess. We booked a cruise Acapulco to Fort Lauderdale for Christmas - paid in full on Monday; on Thursday our TA got a message from Princess that we would have to pay for our own hotel in LAX (flying Vancouver - Acapulco) as the flight to Acapulco was early in the morning and they couldn't connect us all in one trip. Now, to my way of thinking that's a forced overnight the cruise lines should pick up the air; my TA thought so too, but it turns out Princess doesn't do forced overnights any more and this is an Operational Overnight - so Princess wants $115.00 for the hotel; and of course we can't cancel because we' ve done our final payment and we'd be in penalty if we cancelled. They have us no matter which way they turn. Apparently its not only us, either - there are hundreds of people in this situation and Princess can't afford to pay the hotels for everyone, so they are paying for no one. I think once you've made final payment they shouldn't be able to come back on you four days later and say, oh by the way, now you have to pay for a hotel when they have NEVER, at any time previously said we would have to do that. I think Princess will have a big PR problem on their hands with this one - lots of unhappy people, I would think - including us!!

 

YaYa

 

Yatta yatta yatta!!! OK so you're dinged for the hotel for $115.

 

We've had final payment in for our 24 Oct Star cruise across the Pacific for over three months and lo and behold the Princess angel of taxes will have our shipboard account debited in the amount of USD$23.23 even before we board the vessel. NO ExPLANATION, NO REASON, just a tax increase.

 

Princess should learn that once a fare is paid in full and that the terms of the contract are finalized through payment of the agreed upon fare, that any other costs incurred by the cruiseline should be considered as the cost of doing business, and therefore should be recouped through future booked cruises.

 

Ciao for now!!!

[stellalimelight]

Yatta yatta yatta!!! OK so you're dinged for the hotel for $115.

 

We've had final payment in for our 24 Oct Star cruise across the Pacific for over three months and lo and behold the Princess angel of taxes will have our shipboard account debited in the amount of USD$23.23 even before we board the vessel. NO ExPLANATION, NO REASON, just a tax increase.

 

Princess should learn that once a fare is paid in full and that the terms of the contract are finalized through payment of the agreed upon fare, that any other costs incurred by the cruiseline should be considered as the cost of doing business, and therefore should be recouped through future booked cruises.

 

Ciao for now!!!

 

 

It is all in the passenger contract

[RickEk]

Yatta yatta yatta!!! OK so you're dinged for the hotel for $115.

 

We've had final payment in for our 24 Oct Star cruise across the Pacific for over three months and lo and behold the Princess angel of taxes will have our shipboard account debited in the amount of USD$23.23 even before we board the vessel. NO ExPLANATION, NO REASON, just a tax increase.

 

Princess should learn that once a fare is paid in full and that the terms of the contract are finalized through payment of the agreed upon fare, that any other costs incurred by the cruiseline should be considered as the cost of doing business, and therefore should be recouped through future booked cruises.

 

Ciao for now!!!

 

Hmmmm... I guess so, but if the taxes went down, they'd refund you the difference too. You'll be notified, once you board, of any port tax increase/decrease.

 

And to be precise, the port taxes are levied by the port or local government and Princess is obligated to pass them along. Let's see... $23.23 x 2600 pax = $60,398! That's not an amount that I'd want to pass on to anyone on future cruises. You're on that cruise, you should pay the taxes as levied, simple as that.

 

Did you read the Passage Contract? Here's what you agreed to:

 

Government Fees and Taxes:

“Government Fees and Taxes” may include any and all fees, charges, tolls and taxes imposed by U.S. and/or foreign governmental or quasigovernmental authorities including but not limited to U.S. Customs fees, head taxes, Panama Canal tolls, dockage fees, wharfage fees, inspection fees, air taxes, hotel or VAT taxes incurred as part of a land tour, immigration and naturalization fees, and Internal Revenue Service fees, whether assessed on a per passenger, per berth, per ton or per vessel basis. In the case of per ton or per vessel assessments, those assessments will be spread over the passenger capacity of the ship. Government Fees and Taxes are subject to change and Carrier reserves the right to collect any increases in effect at the time of sailing even if the fare has already been paid in full.

 

I believe that all cruise lines operate in this manner... a quick search of Royal Caribbean's site provided this:

 

"Royal Caribbean International reserves the right to change, whether via an increase or decrease, any published rates, including cruise rates and airfare charges, without prior notice. We reserve the right to impose on any existing booking or new bookings (whether paid in full or not) a supplement for fuel or other matters without prior notice as provided in our Passenger Ticket Contract. In addition, we reserve the right to pass through any third party imposed fuel or other surcharges, also without prior notice, The guest will remain liable for any applicable taxes, fees or surcharges that may be assessed by any governmental or quasi-governmental agencies."

 

'nuff said... :rolleyes:

[spongerob]

I can understand the frustration with having to pay additional taxes or finding out that there were unanticipated costs associated with a cruise, but I think some of the anger is misplaced or perhaps people are being unrealistic.

 

I completely agree with Rick about the taxes. Those always get passed on to the consumer and there's not a darned thing you can do about it. That's the world we live in. Any time you hear someone say that they're going to tax Big Whatever, that money is going to come out of your pocket.

 

I don't think there is any way anyone can reasonable expect to fly from Vancouver to Acapulco in a single day in time to board a ship unless they pay for direct flights that avoid US airports. Most of us would plan to fly a day early anyway even if we weren't having to travel quite so far, so in a sense the decision to fly to LA a day early and make sure that you arrive in Acapulco in plenty of time to get on the ship is a prudent one. It beats risking missing the ship.

[paul929207]

Yatta yatta yatta!!! OK so you're dinged for the hotel for $115.

 

We've had final payment in for our 24 Oct Star cruise across the Pacific for over three months and lo and behold the Princess angel of taxes will have our shipboard account debited in the amount of USD$23.23 even before we board the vessel. NO ExPLANATION, NO REASON, just a tax increase.

 

Princess should learn that once a fare is paid in full and that the terms of the contract are finalized through payment of the agreed upon fare, that any other costs incurred by the cruiseline should be considered as the cost of doing business, and therefore should be recouped through future booked cruises.

 

Ciao for now!!!

Let me get this right. You take the who cares attitude when someone else has to pay $115 extra, but feel you deserve sympathy for haing to pay $23 extra. Did I get that right?

[hypercafe]

Taxes are taxes however when it comes to the rest I believe that once the final payment is done the price is fixed and that's it. However the cruise line has set up the "CONTRACT" that so many like to quote so they can do what they please and you have no recourse.

[ocngypz]

In the Princess reservation system it clearly states during the booking process when there is an operational overnight... and the amount is included in the quotation.

 

 

In the event of rescheduled air connections making a forced overnight necesssary after the fact, Princess faxes the Emergency Notification to the booking agent advising them of the same. This IS done prior to final payment time.

[Ethel5]

The two situations are entirely different!

 

I wouldn't expect Princess t pick up additional port charges but I feel that, since they paid for forced overnights in the past, they should have made it very clear that they are no longer doing so at the time of booking.

[CruisinChris]

My understanding of the OP's situation is that forced overnight is a result of available air schedules and having booked air through Princess. Princess is pretty clear in their policies that when an overnight is forced due to air that it's the cruiser's responsibility - afterall - they are only serving as a booking agent for the air. In other words, even if you had booked those flights yourself, you would have had to stay overnight. I think your only option is to request a deviation and pay extra for flights that satisfy you. My guess is you'll be out more money that way than the $115 for the hotel. Hopefully, in the future you'll take control of your travel arrangements and then you can personally weigh the trade-offs on air schedules, overnights, and resultant costs. It's all a matter of trade-offs and by allowing Princess to manage the process you gave them the power to decide for you. In fact you paid them for the priviledge so that you wouldn't have to worry about it. Too late to be unhappy about it.

[Cruzman]

The lesson here seems to be "never book airfare through the cruise line". This has been my own policy for a number of years.

[Times Prince]

We booked a cruise Acapulco to Fort Lauderdale for Christmas - paid in full on Monday; on Thursday our TA got a message from Princess that we would have to pay for our own hotel in LAX (flying Vancouver - Acapulco) as the flight to Acapulco was early in the morning and they couldn't connect us all in one trip. Now, to my way of thinking that's a forced overnight the cruise lines should pick up the air; my TA thought so too, but it turns out Princess doesn't do forced overnights any more and this is an Operational Overnight - so Princess wants $115.00 for the hotel; and of course we can't cancel because we' ve done our final payment and we'd be in penalty if we cancelled. They have us no matter which way they turn. Apparently its not only us, either - there are hundreds of people in this situation and Princess can't afford to pay the hotels for everyone, so they are paying for no one. I think once you've made final payment they shouldn't be able to come back on you four days later and say, oh by the way, now you have to pay for a hotel when they have NEVER, at any time previously said we would have to do that. I think Princess will have a big PR problem on their hands with this one - lots of unhappy people, I would think - including us!!

 

YaYa

If I read you correctly, you had booked (unspecified) flights initially through Princess that would get you to the ship on the day of sailing. Now do you have to fly a day earlier because of the overnight? If this is the case it would be reasonable that Princess picks up the tab.

 

Or did you plan on getting there a day earlier and now the overnight is in LA rather than Acapulco? In this case, assuming the Acapulco hotel wasn't booked as a pre-cruise package, it would be reasonable for the passenger to pick up the hotel cost.

 

So the big question is what the details are that added/changed the date of your travel from Vancouver. Without this info we are responding to assumptions.

I don't think there is any way anyone can reasonable expect to fly from Vancouver to Acapulco in a single day in time to board a ship unless they pay for direct flights that avoid US airports. Most of us would plan to fly a day early anyway even if we weren't having to travel quite so far, so in a sense the decision to fly to LA a day early and make sure that you arrive in Acapulco in plenty of time to get on the ship is a prudent one. It beats risking missing the ship.

See question above. The timeline the OP provided doesn't add up. It sounds like they already planned coming in a day early.

 

I just hope the OP can leave the unhappiness behind at the gangplank and have a fantastic cruise.

[spongerob]

You're right, Times, the OP's message can be interpreted a number of ways. I'm reading it that they booked and paid for the cruise, including air through Princess, then were told that they would have to leave Vancouver the day before the cruise, stay overnight in LA, and then fly to Acapulco the next day on an early flight.

 

Your highlighted us all I don't think implies a group that could be accomodated together. They (us) couldn't be booked all (all) the way through in one day and still make the ship. I'm guessing that is related to comments on a previous thread where someone had the same issue trying to fly home to Vancouver from Acapulco and was told they would have to stay overnight in LA.

 

I don't think they should expect Princess to pick up the tab on this. It doesn't sound like a change, just an unanticipated expense related to air schedules and security in LAX.

[CruisinChris]

I went out and researched this a little bit. Getting from YVR to LAX isn't a big deal. However - there are NO non-stop flights between LAX and ACA and there are no flights for same day travel that would enable to poster to get from YVR-to ACA in time for the ship. The routing Princess has selected for them by forcing them through LAX is actually far kinder than many other options that pop-up that take over 24 hours actual travel time. Hence, the forced stop-over. IF they're lucky, Princess is running a charter from LAX to ACA.

 

 

 

In my mind, this is less about Princess air than it about knowing what you're getting into when selecting a cruise. I personally would never book a cruise from a port that would require so much messing around to get to. If they had KNOWN that - done the research upfront, they should not have been surprised. They couldn't even improve on the arrangement on their own because there's nothing better as an option.

 

LESSON: before booking a cruise do your research. Understand what your air arrangements are likely to look like and cost, understand whether you need a visa and what that will cost and how long it will take to get, factor in hotel costs (research - what do hotels cost in the port city. How many book a cruise out of FLL only to be stunned at the cost of hotels there??), think about the incidentals, how will you get to and from the airport - what will that cost, between hotel or airport and the port - costs? You must review all these things before you commit to booking a cruise!

[cathi]

My 2 cents worth - from living in Vancouver and having done a cruise out of ACA, I know that there is no way you can leave Vancouver the same day as the cruise departs. In fact there are no direct flights to ACA from YVR. ACA is one of the most difficult Mexican ports to get to even from LAX. When we went it was a late afternoon flight to LAX then an overnight flight to Mexico City and finally a short hop into ACA. Still can't figure out why the cruise lines use ACA as an embarkation or debarkation port. Puerto Vallarta would add a day but be much easier to access from way more places.

Since you can't cancel your cruise (besides you know you really want to go!), you don't have a lot of choices except to pay the extra money and put it behind you. It's one of those live and learn things.

[RickEk]

My 2 cents worth - from living in Vancouver and having done a cruise out of ACA, I know that there is no way you can leave Vancouver the same day as the cruise departs. In fact there are no direct flights to ACA from YVR. ACA is one of the most difficult Mexican ports to get to even from LAX. When we went it was a late afternoon flight to LAX then an overnight flight to Mexico City and finally a short hop into ACA. Still can't figure out why the cruise lines use ACA as an embarkation or debarkation port. Puerto Vallarta would add a day but be much easier to access from way more places.

Since you can't cancel your cruise (besides you know you really want to go!), you don't have a lot of choices except to pay the extra money and put it behind you. It's one of those live and learn things.

 

Puerta Vallarta does not have an established cruise terminal that could handle the baggage and provisioning requirements of a homeported ship.

[G'ma]

The two situations are entirely different!

 

I wouldn't expect Princess t pick up additional port charges but I feel that, since they paid for forced overnights in the past, they should have made it very clear that they are no longer doing so at the time of booking.

 

Well, they haven't paid for it in the recent past for sure....last 10-15 years anyway.

 

It's in their contract.....they arrange the air as a courtesy to the passengers. They have no control over scheduling, flight times, airlines or much else.

 

The forced overnight hotel stay is on you......

[BruceMuzz]

There have been hundreds - or perhaps thousands - of threads on CC about all the problems nearly everyone has when they book air through the cruise lines.

 

Just about everyone agrees that Cruise Line Air is a bad idea - unless there is no other way to do it.

 

Too bad you didn't do your homework on this issue. You probably could have saved yourself substantial money and aggravation if you had researched this.

 

Just think of it as a "Not paying attention" tax.

 

Next time you will know better.

This was a relatively inexpensive lesson.

[sloney]

What I don't understand is why they would route a Candian through LAX when that just adds an unnecessary trip through US immigration and customs. We're on the same cruise and are flying from Vancouver to Mexico City and to ACA. That way only one trip through customs is required until we land in FLL

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

I obviously didn't post very clearly judging by the wide ranging responses. Firstly, this is not a tax, so taxes and port fees aren't really an appropriate comparison. Let me try this again:).

 

EXample: If you cruise out of Fort Lauderdale, with Vancouver as your Gateway and use cruiseline air, there is no way the cruise line can get you there the day of the sailing, so they send you out the day before and pick up the cost of the hotel the night before the cruise - this is called a forced overnight.

 

When we booked our air out of Vancouver to Acapulco with Princess, we knew they could not get us there in one day, but given that it is the Christmas season, and given the issues with the unpredictability of weather, we felt it was best to book cruiseline air. The gateway when we booked was Vancouver, all the documentation said Vancouver and when we paid final payment it was for air out of Vancouver - no arguement there, we paid a premium for the air, because of the season and knowing that we would have to overnight somewhere, maybe Acapulco, maybe not, but we knew it would be a flight out the day before. As with the example above, we ASSUMED the cruiseline would pick up the hotel because there is no way to do the trip the day of. No one ever told us otherwise, even when final payment was made. We received our confirmation and it said paid in full. Then, 4 days later, we received another confirmation that said $115.00 owing on the booking. When we inquired as to what it was we were told at first, that only air out of LAX could be provided, not out of Vancouver, but because the flight out of LAX was very early in the morning, we would need to find our own way out of VAncouver and pay for a hotel the night before the cruise. When we argued that we had paid for air out of Vancouver and that they had contracted with us to provide air out of Vancouver, they relented and said they would fly us out of Vancouver, but that we would still have to pay for the hotel and that this was an Operational Overnight. I would not under normal circumstances have a problem with $115.00 for a hotel, it's actually not a bad price; however, there is a principle involved here - at no time were we told this would be an Operational Overnight - we ASSUMED, (again that word and we all know that that means.....) that this would be a forced overnight because we were on cruise air and couldnt' get there all in one day (see Florida example above). However, princess is sticking to it's guns and will not relent on the charge - as I said before, this isn't just happening to us, it's happening to alot of people on this cruise.

 

If you book a cruise out of Vancouver to Asia, you invariably have to overnight along the way. When the booking is made Princess includes, on the documentation, that an operational overnight is required and put that on your booking, so you know from the beginning you have to pay for a hotel. No issue there.

 

In this case, final payment was made, it was confirmed by the cruiseline and then, 4 days later they changed it to a charge for the Hotel. Why didn't they advise this at the time of final payment? Princess contracts with the airlines for the air, they know what it takes to fly people out of various cities to the embarkation ports; it's not the first time they've sailed out of Acapulco - my issue is with the after the fact charges - what if it had been for $500? It's not like they were allowing us to change as a result of the charge - the only option is take their hotel or book another one separately, and realistically, what's the point of that.

 

I think it's a bigger issue and not a great PR move for Princess. I can understand why they're not picking up the tab if it affects hundreds of people, but at the end of the day, with what they're charging for air, they shouldn't have a problem accommodating it.

 

Anyhow, don't mean to start a fight on the boards, just felt that this is an issue that could have ramifications down the road for people and that you should be aware. I for one will never take a forced overnight for granted again.

 

YaYa

[spongerob]

What I don't understand is why they would route a Candian through LAX when that just adds an unnecessary trip through US immigration and customs. We're on the same cruise and are flying from Vancouver to Mexico City and to ACA. That way only one trip through customs is required until we land in FLL

Did you book your own air? Even if you didn't, there's nothign written in stone that says people are going to get the same flights.

 

I looked at the FLL-Acapulco cruise prior to this one and although the price was right, I knew that the air travel was going to be a killer in both cost and hassle. Sometimes a cruise is cheap for a reason.

[Times Prince]

Ya Ya Cruiser - thanks for providing the additional detail, and for noting that you understand Princess's stance on picking up the bill.

 

I find it interesting that your TA gave you no warning that the flights may be an issue - isn't that the sort of thing we use them for?

 

Happing Cruising !

[Ya Ya Cruiser]

Spongerob - believe me this cruise isn't cheap - ours is classified as a holiday cruise, which is what we wanted, and we are paying accordingly - no complaints between going at Christmas and transiting the Canal, one expects to pay for that.

 

Just to wrap this up I thought I should let everyone know that the TA was just as surprised about this as we were as Princess never, at any time, advised an Operational Overnight would be required - she took it as a forced overnight. Neither the agent or the owner of the agency (a national one at that) felt that Princess was right to do this and as a result are paying the $115.00 on our behalf and will take it up with the cruise lines themselves - they don't believe there is enough time to resolve it with Princess before the $115 is due to be paid (they gave us until the end of the week to decide whether to take their hotel or book our own). I believe my TA acted in good faith and I certainly don't fault them at all.

 

YaYa

[captainron]

Hmmmm... I guess so, but if the taxes went down, they'd refund you the difference too. You'll be notified, once you board, of any port tax increase/decrease.

 

And to be precise, the port taxes are levied by the port or local government and Princess is obligated to pass them along. Let's see... $23.23 x 2600 pax = $60,398! That's not an amount that I'd want to pass on to anyone on future cruises. You're on that cruise, you should pay the taxes as levied, simple as that.

 

Did you read the Passage Contract? Here's what you agreed to:

 

Government Fees and Taxes:

“Government Fees and Taxes” may include any and all fees, charges, tolls and taxes imposed by U.S. and/or foreign governmental or quasigovernmental authorities including but not limited to U.S. Customs fees, head taxes, Panama Canal tolls, dockage fees, wharfage fees, inspection fees, air taxes, hotel or VAT taxes incurred as part of a land tour, immigration and naturalization fees, and Internal Revenue Service fees, whether assessed on a per passenger, per berth, per ton or per vessel basis. In the case of per ton or per vessel assessments, those assessments will be spread over the passenger capacity of the ship. Government Fees and Taxes are subject to change and Carrier reserves the right to collect any increases in effect at the time of sailing even if the fare has already been paid in full.

 

I believe that all cruise lines operate in this manner... a quick search of Royal Caribbean's site provided this:

 

"Royal Caribbean International reserves the right to change, whether via an increase or decrease, any published rates, including cruise rates and airfare charges, without prior notice. We reserve the right to impose on any existing booking or new bookings (whether paid in full or not) a supplement for fuel or other matters without prior notice as provided in our Passenger Ticket Contract. In addition, we reserve the right to pass through any third party imposed fuel or other surcharges, also without prior notice, The guest will remain liable for any applicable taxes, fees or surcharges that may be assessed by any governmental or quasi-governmental agencies."

 

'nuff said... :rolleyes:

 

Ain't that the truth...they have you over the barrell either way I guess. Now the guessing game starts as to who jacked up the fees/taxes etc. Now there would be a thread that could get 200+ posts on it.

 

Thanks again, as it must have been dyslexic fingers and tired eyes working in unison that made me miss that.

 

Ciao for now!!!