Brits don't like to tip

[luckyprincess]

I wonder what would happen if -everyone- stopped paying the suggested tips. Maybe they should cut the suggested tips in half and make everyone pay them. They'd probably get the same amount of money at the end of the day.

How would they get the same amount?:confused: Not being snarky, just don't get it. What I think would happen is what's already happened that has prompted the article. Any decent server/attendant will leave or transfer - if your paycheck got cut by half would you stay? I wouldn't:D I'll tell you one thing, though - I wouldn't want to book a cruise on a ship filled with bottom of the barrel, angry crew:eek: And any crew willing to accept half their pay isn't going to give very good service, I think. As I had said before, their pay structure works very well on all of the ships in their fleet (evidenced by the fact that people are on waitlists for contracts) so they aren't going to change how they pay people. What I think will be interesting is how they actually implement mandatory gratiuty. Will they do it fleet wide or only on the actual problem ships? I think if its on just certain ships then they may insult some people....

[BMT]

Totally against included tipping. Immediately Princess put it on the accounts automatically, the service deteriorated.

 

Just off the Indie. At dinner, excellent service - working for tips.

 

At lunch, mostly surly and unfriendly - make of that what you will!!!

 

Its on the cheap Caribbean cruises that we have witnessed poor attendance in the MDR on the last night. However, for families, its just not realistic to believe that they will pay almost the cost of the cruise in tips!!

 

We cruise from both Europe and Caribbean. Staff always whinge about poor tipping in Europe. However, it can't be so bad otherwise they wouldn't do the job!! I also heard from an onboard Manager, that there is a minimum guarantee anyway. At the prices charged to the Europeans, the cruiselines can afford to do this without changing their policy.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

How would they get the same amount?:confused: Not being snarky, just don't get it. What I think would happen is what's already happened that has prompted the article. Any decent server/attendant will leave or transfer - if your paycheck got cut by half would you stay? I wouldn't:D I'll tell you one thing, though - I wouldn't want to book a cruise on a ship filled with bottom of the barrel, angry crew:eek: And any crew willing to accept half their pay isn't going to give very good service, I think. As I had said before, their pay structure works very well on all of the ships in their fleet (evidenced by the fact that people are on waitlists for contracts) so they aren't going to change how they pay people. What I think will be interesting is how they actually implement mandatory gratiuty. Will they do it fleet wide or only on the actual problem ships? I think if its on just certain ships then they may insult some people....

 

 

I think she meant that if RC halved the recommended amount and made that a compulsory amount to pay, the crew would possibly get the same amount of tips they normally receive, taking into consideration the people that dont tip and those that tip less than is advised.

I dont think RC would stand for angry crew to passengers or really bad service, that would be bad publicity altogether , they would lose a lot of money.

[marci22]

Yes, that's what I meant. I really believe that tippers subsidize the non-tippers, hence my suggestion.

 

There are lots of arguments about the cruiselines not paying a "fair wage" but hey, if they don't make you tip, they'll make you pay the price upfront. Right now, the nontippers should be grateful to the tippers because it's keeping the cruiselines from having to increase the upfront price. Folks should stop calling the tippers 'Lady Bountifuls' and making other snarky comments because our generosity/stupidity is what's keeping your cruise affordable. That's not directed at any one poster btw.

[luckyprincess]

I think she meant that if RC halved the recommended amount and made that a compulsory amount to pay, the crew would possibly get the same amount of tips they normally receive, taking into consideration the people that dont tip and those that tip less than is advised.

I dont think RC would stand for angry crew to passengers or really bad service, that would be bad publicity altogether , they would lose a lot of money.

Ahh, okay. However, besides this seemingly problem sailing and those in Austrailia (although don't they now require mandatory grats for Austalia?), for the most part it seems that most people pay their tips. Now if its just this sailing, where apparently most DON'T pay their tips then yes, that could work.

I think the point of this whole article is that RCCL has an angry crew and a mass exit going on with transfers and those leaving after their contracts are up. The problem is they can't continue this way and get anyone good to staff the ships, you know? As I said, if your paycheck suddenly went down by half and every other department in your building was still making their regular pay wouldn't you ask for a transfer or find a new company (cruiseline) to work for? I sure would. I'm curious as to why the UK pays so much more. Does anyone know? Is it due to taxes or certain laws or something? Or maybe its just novelty with the big ships? I mean, I know Oasis is charging an arm and a leg mostly because its something new and eventually the price will come down. Maybe that will happen for the UK as well - but I just don't get why its so much more...:confused:

 

Also, just wanted to add that I never paid attention to people not showing up for dinner on the last night but I always pre pay my grats and when you do that you don't have to give them the little envelope. So perhaps those people did prepaid grats are doing the specialty restaurants or something or room service since its the last night and some just want to pack and relax? Although I'm sure a lot are skipping out! But that actually wouldn't be my first thought.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

Ahh, okay. However, besides this seemingly problem sailing and those in Austrailia (although don't they now require mandatory grats for Austalia?), for the most part it seems that most people pay their tips. Now if its just this sailing, where apparently most DON'T pay their tips then yes, that could work.

I think the point of this whole article is that RCCL has an angry crew and a mass exit going on with transfers and those leaving after their contracts are up. The problem is they can't continue this way and get anyone good to staff the ships, you know? As I said, if your paycheck suddenly went down by half and every other department in your building was still making their regular pay wouldn't you ask for a transfer or find a new company (cruiseline) to work for? I sure would. I'm curious as to why the UK pays so much more. Does anyone know? Is it due to taxes or certain laws or something? Or maybe its just novelty with the big ships? I mean, I know Oasis is charging an arm and a leg mostly because its something new and eventually the price will come down. Maybe that will happen for the UK as well - but I just don't get why its so much more...:confused:

 

 

I have no idea why we pay more and I never knew we did until I read it on CC,lol.

The thing is, we did not mind what we paid for our cruise as its there in front of you when you pay, its the smaller print that then quotes what is expected in tips etc, its like you see a price for a drink, then when you get the bill there is tips added. It then doesnt seem as affordable as first seems. Especially for a family of 4 people.

I expect you guy's from the US just know and expect it and make allowances in your budget for this but when you have lived in the UK all your life, its not part of the normal day or part of vacation life, most people holiday in Europe and its quite laid back there as far as tips go.

[luckyprincess]

I have no idea why we pay more and I never knew we did until I read it on CC,lol.

The thing is, we did not mind what we paid for our cruise as its there in front of you when you pay, its the smaller print that then quotes what is expected in tips etc, its like you see a price for a drink, then when you get the bill there is tips added. It then doesnt seem as affordable as first seems. Especially for a family of 4 people.

I expect you guy's from the US just know and expect it and make allowances in your budget for this but when you have lived in the UK all your life, its not part of the normal day or part of vacation life, most people holiday in Europe and its quite laid back there as far as tips go.

That totally makes sense to me. That's actually one of the reasons we aren't really interested in Oasis - you know, you pay for the cruise and everything ahead of time and then its another $9 to eat here, antoher $5 for this, another $20 for that just to experience what's on the ship. I think that for UK sailings, then, they should just add mandatory grats onto the fare, let people know UP FRONT that its included and be done with it so that the crew can go back to making their proper pay and no one feels misled.:)

[compman9]

P.S. - I've been searching online for studies that show which nation spends the most on vacation but can't find anything - can you site the studies because I find that kind of stuff interesting.

 

I believe it goes something like this:

1) Americans

2) Japanese

3) British

 

I would presume it would be most of our average expenditure would be on getting drunk!

[MAZANDSTEVE]

That totally makes sense to me. That's actually one of the reasons we aren't really interested in Oasis - you know, you pay for the cruise and everything ahead of time and then its another $9 to eat here, antoher $5 for this, another $20 for that just to experience what's on the ship. I think that for UK sailings, then, they should just add mandatory grats onto the fare, let people know UP FRONT that its included and be done with it so that the crew can go back to making their proper pay and no one feels misled.:)

 

 

Yes fine with me and when people are looking for a vacation on a cruise ship, they will know if its affordable, if grats are added they will either look and buy or no I cannot afford that and move on to another choice. TBH, It never affected our budget as there are only two of us, even though we were a bit surprised but a family could pay an awful lot more depending on how many children they have along with the inflated cruise price.;)

[compman9]

All of this does sort of reach a conclusion in that as these boards suggest, cruising is for far more nationalities now than when the major lines formalised their pricing policies.

 

It is the fastest growing vacation option for Brits and will soar with these new mega-ships coming out.

 

It is time to include all gratuities, taxes, etc. in the price.

 

And as someone said this could indeed mean a deterioration in service, but only at first. Getting a job on a cruise ship is a lot harder than people think.

 

People from a wide range of countries will still tip extra to the best serving or room staff. So, everyone wins and the cheapskates have to cough up as well.

 

It might also level the earnings out a little as well, so that all staff get a fair wage - there are many disproportionate earners on a cruise ship.

[marci22]

I think that for UK sailings, then, they should just add mandatory grats onto the fare, let people know UP FRONT that its included and be done with it so that the crew can go back to making their proper pay and no one feels misled.:)

 

But (according to these boards) we have the arguments that UK customers tip or don't tip in the same proportions as US customers, so the article originally referred to is fantasy, that the cruiseline should pay a "fair wage" (so if tipping is abolished, and the cruiseline now pays a higher wage, you don't think your fare will go up?) that UK sailings are more expensive for Europeans than Americans, so the cost is fundamentally unevenly distributed, etc, etc, etc.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

This is a very interesting thread. Funny thing...how the whole tipping system on ocean liners evolved. It all began with CUNARD in the mid 1800's. Cabin and restaurant stewards were tipped the same way they are today...at the end of the voyage. The word TIP comes from the British phrase..."To Insure Promptness"...which also evolved from the days of transatlantic crossings and voyages between England and India...on British ships. The tipping system at sea is a time honored system...a sea-going tradition...and that system was refined onboard the British ships of Cunard, White Star, etc.

 

Yes...there are rude people all over the world...no matter what their nationality is. A lot of them treat the personnel onboard ship like door mats. Amazingly...a lot of elderly people are guilty of this. I know...I have had to intervene on several occasions and remind some people that they need to be polite. I have been crossing and cruising for 45 years and I have seen it all.

 

The thing to remember is: when you board a ship...you are actually stepping onto foreign soil...so to speak. I find it much easier to just accept the traditions that prevail...and go with the flow. A lot of Brits are now getting reacquainted with cruising. Brits used to populate the ships of the world...up until the 1950's...then things changed...mostly due to the economy and air travel. So a lot of you are in transition...going from land based holidays to sea going holidays. Apparently, cruising is the fastest growing segment in the British travel industry...bravo! To me, the idea of tipping is just a matter of adjustment. If you like the service...then you tip.

[marci22]

If you like the service...then you tip.

 

Would that it were so.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

This is a very interesting thread. Funny thing...how the whole tipping system on ocean liners evolved. It all began with CUNARD in the mid 1800's. Cabin and restaurant stewards were tipped the same way they are today...at the end of the voyage. The word TIP comes from the British phrase..."To Insure Promptness"...which also evolved from the days of transatlantic crossings and voyages between England and India...on British ships. The tipping system at sea is a time honored system...a sea-going tradition...and that system was refined onboard the British ships of Cunard, White Star, etc.

 

Yes...there are rude people all over the world...no matter what their nationality is. A lot of them treat the personnel onboard ship like door mats. Amazingly...a lot of elderly people are guilty of this. I know...I have had to intervene on several occasions and remind some people that they need to be polite. I have been crossing and cruising for 45 years and I have seen it all.

 

The thing to remember is: when you board a ship...you are actually stepping onto foreign soil...so to speak. I find it much easier to just accept the traditions that prevail...and go with the flow. A lot of Brits are now getting reacquainted with cruising. Brits used to populate the ships of the world...up until the 1950's...then things changed...mostly due to the economy and air travel. So a lot of you are in transition...going from land based holidays to sea going holidays. Apparently, cruising is the fastest growing segment in the British travel industry...bravo! To me, the idea of tipping is just a matter of adjustment. If you like the service...then you tip.

 

 

Most the Brits that cruised many years ago, were mostly middle upper class people where tipping was a way to get themselves better service than the other man. While I agree with most of what you said, I think the main problem to begin with is perhaps lack of information and details given to us when booking a cruise. Like I said, most Brits holiday in Europe, there is no small print on gratuities, none is expected although we do tip if we have a very nice meal or great service but not always and not everyone. It probably stems from the first port of call when booking, whether its on the internet or TA, The gratuity expectation is usually not prominent its only after, if you read all the info that it comes to light. Many Brits have relied on the TA's for many years to provide all the information needed, this is not always the case as we have read on here many times, I am not saying all!! there are a lot of good TA's too.

From my first experience of cruising, I now know an awful lot more than I did before and will be more cautious of what and when I am booking vacations.

[BMT]

You can also ask why the Brits pay far more for electronic goods, cars etc. The taxes are higher, yes. But not to account for the far higher prices than in the US.

 

Why are the prices so much higher in rip-off Britain? Because we allow it:eek:

 

Neither do I believe that staff won't work on the ships because of the tips. Cunard and P&O don't seem to have a problem staffing - neither does HAL.

 

Anyway, if that was the case, then the cruiseline would just include the tips for British Residents - who after all, in many cases, pay more than US residents for the same cruise.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

You can also ask why the Brits pay far more for electronic goods, cars etc. The taxes are higher, yes. But not to account for the far higher prices than in the US.

 

Why are the prices so much higher in rip-off Britain? Because we allow it:eek:

 

Neither do I believe that staff won't work on the ships because of the tips. Cunard and P&O don't seem to have a problem staffing - neither does HAL.

 

Anyway, if that was the case, then the cruiseline would just include the tips for British Residents - who after all, in many cases, pay more than US residents for the same cruise.

 

 

 

We allow it so we can cruise, dont allow it and dont cruise. I need my hols.:)

You are right with other cruiselines, they have no problem with staffing.

[BehrHunter]

You can also ask why the Brits pay far more for electronic goods, cars etc. The taxes are higher, yes. But not to account for the far higher prices than in the US.

 

Why are the prices so much higher in rip-off Britain? Because we allow it:eek:

 

Neither do I believe that staff won't work on the ships because of the tips. Cunard and P&O don't seem to have a problem staffing - neither does HAL.

 

Anyway, if that was the case, then the cruiseline would just include the tips for British Residents - who after all, in many cases, pay more than US residents for the same cruise.

 

You think you have it bad in the UK? Try Ireland. Shoppers in the south have been streaming across the border into Northern Ireland to take advantage of the price discounts. Typically one third less than in the south. Stores along the border on the south side and closing down because they cannot compete.

[Aplmac]

I think the cruise lines need to adjust for the areas that they are cruising.

The UK doesn't have tipping like the US does. So adjust the price.

Neither one is the correct way of doing things. They are just different.

So each is correct for their region.

Well said! ;)

[PhoenixCruiser]

I have no idea why we pay more and I never knew we did until I read it on CC,lol.

The thing is, we did not mind what we paid for our cruise as its there in front of you when you pay, its the smaller print that then quotes what is expected in tips etc, its like you see a price for a drink, then when you get the bill there is tips added. It then doesnt seem as affordable as first seems. Especially for a family of 4 people.

I expect you guy's from the US just know and expect it and make allowances in your budget for this but when you have lived in the UK all your life, its not part of the normal day or part of vacation life, most people holiday in Europe and its quite laid back there as far as tips go.

 

The beverage tips should not have been a surprise to anyone as they are clearly explained in the cruise documents:

 

10. Tipping - So that you can thank those who have made your cruise vacation better than you could have imagined, we've developed these gratuity guidelines:

 

Suite attendant: $5.75 USD a day per guest

Stateroom attendant: $3.50 USD a day per guest

Dining Room Waiter: $3.50 USD a day per guest

Assistant Waiter: $2.00 USD a day per guest

Headwaiter: $.75 USD a day per guest

 

Note: These gratuities apply to guests of all ages.

 

Gratuities for other service personnel are at your discretion. A 15% gratuity will automatically be added to your bar bill or wine check when you are served.

 

Envelopes for gratuities will be provided in your stateroom on the last night of the cruise. Gratuities may be paid in the following ways:

Pre paid by having them added to your reservation by your reservation agent.

Added to your onboard SeaPass account.

Paid in cash at the end of the cruise

 

###

[peteukmcr]

Also, just wanted to add that I never paid attention to people not showing up for dinner on the last night but I always pre pay my grats and when you do that you don't have to give them the little envelope. So perhaps those people did prepaid grats are doing the specialty restaurants or something or room service since its the last night and some just want to pack and relax? Although I'm sure a lot are skipping out! But that actually wouldn't be my first thought.

 

We didn't show up for dinner on the last night on our recent FOS sailing because we'd been invited to join our tablemates in Portofinos. We had pre-paid gratuities, but I still went down during dinner service to make sure our waiter/ ass. waiter got their envelopes. Not such a long way to go to thank them for their fantastic service they had provided for the rest of the week, even though we'd been absent on 2 previous evenings as we dined in the speciality restaurants. No excuse in my book for not showing your appreciation even if the envelopes have the pre-paid vouchers in them. No excuse for saying 'Thank You' in person.

[BMT]

You think you have it bad in the UK? Try Ireland. Shoppers in the south have been streaming across the border into Northern Ireland to take advantage of the price discounts. Typically one third less than in the south. Stores along the border on the south side and closing down because they cannot compete.

 

This is chalk and cheese!! Eire has done incredibly well out of the EEC. Now the euro is strong against the pound, of course its cheaper in NI!! However, now the EEC is not pouring money into Eire, the booming economy is seeming to falter. Blame the EEC for pulling the plug.

 

This is the way I read it anyway.

[luckyprincess]

You can also ask why the Brits pay far more for electronic goods, cars etc. The taxes are higher, yes. But not to account for the far higher prices than in the US.

 

Why are the prices so much higher in rip-off Britain? Because we allow it:eek:

 

Neither do I believe that staff won't work on the ships because of the tips. Cunard and P&O don't seem to have a problem staffing - neither does HAL.

 

Anyway, if that was the case, then the cruiseline would just include the tips for British Residents - who after all, in many cases, pay more than US residents for the same cruise.

Yes, but the staff on RCCL get paid by base wage + tips. This equals out to about $1500 per month.I think for asst. waiters, for example. So if RCCL is now paying them $50 - $100 a month for base then just imagine how much they lose when people don't follow the guidelines about tipping. As the company (with many ships in it's fleet and only seemingly one or two 'problem' ones) is most likely not going to change it's entire payscale then I think you are correct that they will just include the tips for UK residents. It seems the most fair way.

With Cunard or HAL you are still paying the servers salaries. They just raise the price by how much they pay them (and probably more for profit;)) and just make you pay it without letting you know how much it is or giving you any control over the quality of the service. Yes, you could complain, but you still pay for good service and don't get it. However, regardless of how the employee is paid (before by you or after by you) it is still your money. As well, Cunard is much more expensive than RCCL, I think - not sure about the other lines. That may well be why. But the staff won't work if you reduce their pay - on either line. If Cunard suddenly started paying their servers only half of their salary what do you think would happen to the service on that ship? I would guarantee it would suffer and servers would transfer or quit.

[celle]

 

The thing to remember is: when you board a ship...you are actually stepping onto foreign soil...so to speak. I find it much easier to just accept the traditions that prevail...and go with the flow.

 

I agree with you, but it is still a huge mental stretch for some to (for example) step on board a ship in England and sail to Europe or the Baltic and yet find that you are really cruising in "little America".

[swanlady2000]

Don't know about the biggest spenders, but there is loads of articles online no getting away from the fact that Britain is the fastest growing market for cruises. All of the major companies are basing their biggest and newest ships here. Even Disney are getting in on the act next year and Disney Magic will be here in 2010. :)

 

Therefore its almost certain that most companies will start adding tipping up front.

 

Here's an idea that might solve the problem....... Everyone pays tips up front. At the end of the cruise, you get a card where you can opt to take money off a particular area if the service has not been to your liking stating the reason why. This would help cruise lines make the service better and identify training issues with staff. Much more productive if you ask me.

 

I've got to say, I've never got tipping. Most servers do their jobs well. I sit down, I order, I get brought my food and wine (not bothered if I have an ice bucket on the table and I top myself up or they do as long as I get some wine!) and then I get up and go and they clear away the pots - whats hard about that! (and thats from me who did silver service waiting in my youth!)

[marci22]

I get brought my food and wine... and then I get up and go and they clear away the pots - whats hard about that!

 

I don't know what "silver service waiting" is but slinging hash is one of the harder jobs I've done. And I've done a few.