Iberia vs. American, Alitalia questions

[Infi]

I have been researching flights for our Med cruise (Venice to Barcelona) in July and am almost ready to buy the flights. We will be traveling roundtrip MIA to Madrid, and then likely adding on a flight to get to Venice. I have three questions.

 

1. Iberia and American have identical nonstop flights, that leave the same day and within an hour of each other. The Iberia flight is $75pp cheaper, but I've read awful reviews of Iberia as an airline - delays, rude crew, awful seat conditions. Does anyone here have experience with them? I'm thinking for a long haul I'd want to be on a US carrier because I've had bad experiences with foreign carriers in the past. Is this justified?

 

2. We would like to fly RT Madrid for two reasons. One, to spend some time in the city, and two, to get RT airfare instead of the more expensive "multiple routes" to make it to Venice and back from Barcelona. To get to Venice from Madrid, we will essentially have to use a foreign carrier, most likely Alitalia. Does anyone have any experience with them? How different did you find them from domestic carriers? Is this an awful idea/should I just go for the "multiple routes" plan?

 

3. Looking at airfares is a harrowing process, but I think I have resigned myself to these prices at this point. Is ~$1100pp a reasonable price for RT Madrid from Miami in summer? I haven't flown abroad in a few years, so I'm genuinely curious. I know I can't do anything to "change" the price, but I just hope I'm not terribly overpaying by booking this late.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice and information, all.

[fbgd]

I'm thinking for a long haul I'd want to be on a US carrier because I've had bad experiences with foreign carriers in the past. Is this justified?

 

Think about it. Are all foreign carriers likely to be poor or equally poor? Of course not.

 

I'd say there's justification for avoiding US carriers, particularly in economy, as some of the European carriers offer a much better product over the pond; BA, Virgin, Lufthansa, Swiss, to name a few. Alitalia and Iberia are towards the bottom of the generalised rankings when it comes to European longhaul airlines but they're comparable to the American carriers IMO.

 

I'm sure you can read awful reviews on any airline if you read hard enough.

[Twickenham]

This is for the July 4th Ruby Princess cruise, right? For fun, I punched in July 1- 16 dates into ITA Matrix, and got a price of $932 for a MIA-MAD-MIA roundtrip, and $108 for a one-way VCE-MAD (total $1040), all with Air Europa (ironically, the same flights booked together price out at $1156). I have never personally flown them, so will let others speak of their experience with this airline.

 

To answer the points you bring up:

 

-No, I would not necessarily favour US carriers, unless you have a compelling FF miles/status reason to do so;

-As my example points out, it can be cheaper to price them out separately, although staying with the same airline has the advantage on the return of the ability to through-check your bags;

-$1100 is the right ballpark for mid-summer transatlantic travel. I don't think you lost out by waiting, but I wouldn't necessarily wait any longer, as you have specific dates you want to book for;

-After reading a variety of reviews/stories on the web, I would avoid Alitalia like the plague.

[zoncom]

I fly international out of MIA. I have always said any foreign carrier EXCEPT Iberia does a better job than our domestics. Try open jaw out of MIA on Swiss or Luftansa for better pricing, service and Star Alliance miles.Always on time too. Used Swiss to BCN couple mos. ago. Arrived early.

[Globaliser]

I'm thinking for a long haul I'd want to be on a US carrier because I've had bad experiences with foreign carriers in the past. Is this justified?

Most frequent flyers would tell you that for a long haul, you'd generally want to avoid US carriers like the plague.

 

But pick your airline carefully, as always. There are some mediocre non-US airlines, too, as you've discovered.

... and two, to get RT airfare instead of the more expensive "multiple routes" to make it to Venice and back from Barcelona.

This won't necessarily be more expensive. If you buy an "open jaw" ticket that flies you from Miami to Venice, and then from Barcelona to Miami, broadly speaking the price should be the sum of a Miami-Venice-Miami round-trip ticket plus a Miami-Barcelona-Miam round-trip ticket, divided by two. See this thread for more information: What is an "Open Jaw" and how does it work - an FAQ primer.

 

If you want to build in a stopover at Madrid, that only complicates matters slightly.

 

If you are doing Madrid post-cruise, have a look to see whether it might be cheaper to buy a Miami-Venice/Madrid-Miami "open jaw" ticket, and then add on Barcelona-Madrid as a separate ticket (perhaps on the train rather than flying).

 

If you are going to do Madrid pre-cruise, then look into a Miami-Madrid/Barcelona-Miami "open jaw" ticket rather than a round-trip Miami-Madrid-Miami ticket. You may find that a ticket that flies you back from Barcelona costs very little more than a Miami-Madrid-Miami round-trip. (You may then have to add on Madrid-Venice separately to keep the price reasonable.)

 

But if you do a "multiple cities" routing that puts (say) Miami-Madrid, Madrid-Venice, and Barcelona-Miami all on one ticket, that can increase the price quite a bit.

[PennyAgain]

I've flown Iberia a few times. Not my first choice of airline. When you have a cheaper ticket it does not always include getting to pick your seats ahead of time. Out of Madrid they were assigned at the airport at the time of departure. The FA's vanished for most of the flight. Breakfast was a roll and one small cup of coffee in economy.

[Gardyloo]

Economy long haul pax on Air Europa aren't exactly raving about the experience: http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/air_europa.htm

 

Only comment I'd make - and won't apply to most readers - is that if you're thinking about business class, Iberia's prices MIA-MAD-MIA for late June/July are very good by historic comparisons - around $2400 RT. IB's business class product is first-rate IMO.

[Infi]

Thanks everyone for your helpful feedback. After your comments, I did do some technical comparisons on the Iberia and American seats in economy and I'm leaning towards American. For one, the seat width is better and the plane itself has less passengers. Are these transatlantic flights usually crowded/sold out? I'm thinking they might be, considering it will be late June.

 

I have also seen awful comments about Air Europa, which makes me wary of them too. Yes, I know you can find bad reviews on any airline, but let's face it - some get more bad reviews than others. :rolleyes:

 

Now my issue is getting from Madrid to Venice. According to the ITA matrix (thanks for that link, it's great!), the cheapest (and most plentiful) flights are on Alitalia, with the next cheapest is Vueling airlines and then British Airways. The latter two are afternoon flights (which I usually try to avoid because of delays) and all the Alitalia ones, while shorter, have stops in Rome. Anyway, it looks like I don't have much choice other than to go with Alitalia. :( How is Rome as an airport to change planes in? Are there jetways to get out to the planes, or is it staircases and runway shuttles? I only ask because I can't handle stairs due to a knee problem, so any input here is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

[UKBayern]

This is for the July 4th Ruby Princess cruise, right? For fun, I punched in July 1- 16 dates into ITA Matrix, and got a price of $932 for a MIA-MAD-MIA roundtrip, and $108 for a one-way VCE-MAD (total $1040), all with Air Europa (ironically, the same flights booked together price out at $1156).

 

 

:eek: Be very very careful when booking 2 separate tickets. If you miss your connection, the airline is not responsible to help you on your way and you could even end up buying a new ticket for your second stretch. This "insurance" accounts for the difference between the $1040 and the $1156. If you think that last minute in the height of the high season in Europe you will be able to even get to buy another ticket, I can assure you it is not going to be $116 extra, but a lot more...

 

This of course is not an issue if you are spending a few days in Madrid.

 

We are always very pleased with Swiss, also price-wise and ticketing. We absolutely hate American Airlines, what a BAD airline. We did the MAD-MIA-MAD with them a few years ago. The advantage of the AA and IB code share alliance is that they do have a number of flights leaving MAD shortly after each other, so if one is overbooked/delayed/cancelled you won't be hanging about for ever.

[UKBayern]

How is Rome as an airport to change planes in? Are there jetways to get out to the planes, or is it staircases and runway shuttles? I only ask because I can't handle stairs due to a knee problem, so any input here is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

 

In almost every European airport, both scenarios are in operation. It has to do with the size of the plane. Yes, arriving/departing on international will be a jetway, but intra-European flights can be staircases because the plane will be so small (Fokker 50, Avroliner, Embraer) it cannot connect on a jetway. It is a 50/50 chance at any European airport really. Always let the airline know that you cannot walk stairs (in airline code WCHS), and they will always get you in the aircraft, even if they have to carry you or put you in the catering lift.

[Twickenham]

Now my issue is getting from Madrid to Venice.

 

Edit: Duh! Just realized you need one-way, not round trip! I think I'd be researching Vueling; if you think the reviews on Air Europa are bad, the horror stories about Alitalia are epic

 

:eek: Be very very careful when booking 2 separate tickets. If you miss your connection, the airline is not responsible to help you on your way and you could even end up buying a new ticket for your second stretch. This "insurance" accounts for the difference between the $1040 and the $1156.

 

Point well made re: separate tickets. In my experience, however, pricing for a whole itinerary with connections has been less than pricing out the separate flights, so I think there's more to the pricing gap than 'insurance'.

 

Glad to hear good things about Swiss. I'm considering them for a trip to Europe for next year.

[Tiggertastic]

We're coming in the other direction, UK to Miami

 

We had a choice of Iberia to Madrid then to miami or American direct out of Heathrow

 

We decided on American as Iberia doesn't have such a good reputation - Iberia was $750 and American $1000 - we paid more to avoid Iberia.

 

we'd have gone for British Airways, lufthansa or Virgin - the best we've ever long hauled with but if you don't get the flights when they first come out, the prices fly up (no pun intended)

 

x

[sunsetbeachgal]

My cruise involved different cities (our cruise starts in Athens, ends in Rome) and I just booked the air on British Airways (directly on their web site)---we are doing a stopover for three days in London pre-cruise and the price was right around what you quoted (including the stopover). Not cheap-but from what I read alot of the carriers have reduced capacity from US to Europe with the economy, so felt more comfortable buying the tickets.

[Globaliser]

Now my issue is getting from Madrid to Venice. According to the ITA matrix (thanks for that link, it's great!), the cheapest (and most plentiful) flights are on Alitalia, with the next cheapest is Vueling airlines and then British Airways. The latter two are afternoon flights (which I usually try to avoid because of delays) and all the Alitalia ones, while shorter, have stops in Rome.

I think you'll find that the BA itineraries connect via London, and you may well have to change airports as well. You really don't want to do that:-

 

 

I haven't looked at this in detail, but a first glance suggests to me like the big difference between Alitalia and Vueling is that Vueling is non-stop and Alitalia isn't. If the price difference isn't great, that would really decide it for me.

 

Another option may be to be a cheap round-trip ticket on Iberia and only use the first half. A throwaway strategy is strictly speaking against the fare conditions, and there is a possibility that the airline might ask you to pay the difference between the cheap round-trip ticket that you bought and the full fare that Iberia seems to charge for one-way travel. But the general view is that this risk is very small if you only do it once in a blue moon.

[personnext]

Make no mistake - if you are flying coach, the on-board comfort will be superior on Iberia or Air Europa.

 

Iberia and Air Europa have relatively young Airbus planes with personal in-seat televisions and newer generation coach seats.

 

American's 763s range from as young as 6 to as old as 20+, but none will have personal in-seat televisions, if that is something that is important to you.

[Gardyloo]

Make no mistake - if you are flying coach, the on-board comfort will be superior on Iberia or Air Europa.

 

Iberia and Air Europa have relatively young Airbus planes with personal in-seat televisions and newer generation coach seats.

 

American's 763s range from as young as 6 to as old as 20+, but none will have personal in-seat televisions, if that is something that is important to you.

AFAIK IB still has mainscreen movies in economy, personal IFE only in business.

 

OTOH you can pre-select seats on AA, and AA FFers earn 100% miles on AA flights, only 30% in economy on IB-numbered flights.

[UKBayern]

Make no mistake - if you are flying coach, the on-board comfort will be superior on Iberia or Air Europa.

 

Iberia and Air Europa have relatively young Airbus planes with personal in-seat televisions and newer generation coach seats.

 

American's 763s range from as young as 6 to as old as 20+, but none will have personal in-seat televisions, if that is something that is important to you.

 

What we found disgusting about AA was the service level, :eek: it was below any we ever experienced before or after. (this was 2004)

It really biased us against AA. Any other airline we ever flew, even cheap ones, Mexicana, Easyjet, a Thai in-country puddlejumper, and a 12-seater Beechcraft in Costa Rica, you name them, EVERY single one, had at least good service in comparison. Some were excellent.

As far as we remember the plane itself was OK but that obviously did not stick in the mind. Sad, really.

[NHBob]

:eek: Be very very careful when booking 2 separate tickets. If you miss your connection, the airline is not responsible to help you on your way and you could even end up buying a new ticket for your second stretch. This "insurance" accounts for the difference between the $1040 and the $1156. If you think that last minute in the height of the high season in Europe you will be able to even get to buy another ticket, I can assure you it is not going to be $116 extra, but a lot more...

 

Another thing to consider is that if you purchase a separate Madrid-Venice ticket you will probably be subject to intra-Europe baggage limits, 20kg per person in most cases. On the other hand, if your segments within Europe are part of your transatlantic ticket (same electronic ticket number) you will be entitled to the transatlantic baggage allowance, still 2 checked bags on most carriers.

[UKBayern]

Another thing to consider is that if you purchase a separate Madrid-Venice ticket you will probably be subject to intra-Europe baggage limits, 20kg per person in most cases. On the other hand, if your segments within Europe are part of your transatlantic ticket (same electronic ticket number) you will be entitled to the transatlantic baggage allowance, still 2 checked bags on most carriers.

 

Yes, you are absolutely right, that is true.

[Infi]

Thanks again, everyone. You all are so helpful, I really appreciate it. I can't believe I didn't think of buying a roundtrip and not using the other half. It's about $50 more, but most importantly, it's not on Alitalia and it's nonstop and early morning. Perfect! I'd say it's worth it to me. And, it looks like I'll get to experience Iberia on that flight after all, for better or for worse. Thanks so much for the idea, Globaliser. As a "rule follower", I am uneasy about just throwing away another ticket, and whether or not I'll get "caught". I don't know if there's anywhere I can read up on the likelihood something like that happening, it doesn't seem like people would admit that. Does anyone have any experience with throwing away tickets?

 

NHBob - You're right, we will be subjected to baggage restrictions. I had already been researching that when I was contemplating Alitalia. I think we should be okay with luggage weight, especially considering this will be at the beginning of our trip rather than the end. ;)

[UKBayern]

As long as it is the last stretch(es) of the ticket you throw away, and not the first or in the middle! The airlines have computers that automatically cancel all your onward travel if you fail to show for an earlier stretch. Their reasoning is of course that you never started your journey, and are unlikely to turn up at a later point. You will never get "caught", I worked for the airlines in Europe for 11 years, this is common practice amongst frequent flyers, and there is no airline employee anywhere who cares for one bit what you do with the rest of your ticket.

[Infi]

Thanks, UKBayern. I'll be throwing away the last part of the ticket, so no worries there. I'm just glad to hear that airlines don't take much notice if you skip the flight.

[brown's fan 1]

We are doing a transatlantic from Barcelona to Miami in November 2010. In looking for airfare from DFW to Barcelona, I see that the Iberia flight is actually on American from DFW to MAD and then on Iberia for the short flight to BCN. The RT price on Iberia is $300 less than the same flight on AA. So is there any reason not to book on Iberia? I ask because of negative threads about Iberia. Will I still be able to select seats if I book through Iberia? (You cannot select seats on either line at this time, or at least I cannot find that seat selections are available on either site)

 

By the way, the RT fare on Iberia is within $30 of the airfare the cruise line is offering, including the air deviation. I have been warned against the cruise air because of the limited options for change with a consolidator's ticket. But if you buy the air deviation and select your flights, is this still a valid warning?

 

A great deal to consider and the trip is still 9 months away, but I see that the Iberian fare is only good thru March 16.

 

Advice please!

[iancal]

We avoid Alitalia like we do norovirus. We have had a number of less than satisfactory experiences on their international flights. Ditto for changing planes in London Heathrow... The only time we will go thru LHR is if it is our origin or point of departure.

[Globaliser]

As a "rule follower", I am uneasy about just throwing away another ticket, and whether or not I'll get "caught". I don't know if there's anywhere I can read up on the likelihood something like that happening, it doesn't seem like people would admit that.

I doubt that there is anywhere that you can easily find accounts of this. Generally, the following steps are reckoned to reduce your risk:-

• Book directly with the airline, not through a travel agent.
• Do not give a frequent flyer number.
• Book the return sector for as far into the future as you can whilst keeping the fare that you want.

But the risk is pretty tiny in any event. If this is going to work for you this once, just do it and don't worry about it.

In looking for airfare from DFW to Barcelona' date=' I see that the Iberia flight is actually on American from DFW to MAD and then on Iberia for the short flight to BCN. The RT price on Iberia is $300 less than the same flight on AA. So is there any reason not to book on Iberia? I ask because of negative threads about Iberia.[/quote']If you see an itinerary offered by one airline, and the exact same itinerary offered by another airline because of a codesharing partnership, and the two airlines concerned are in the same airline alliance (ie oneworld, SkyTeam or Star Alliance), there are generally few show-stoppers about the decision on booking with one airline rather than the other. The important parts of the relationship will generally work pretty well. For example, it's now quite unusual to find that the operating carrier does not have a record of the reservation made by the marketing carrier - although this was often troublesome in the early days of codesharing.

 

So it's really mostly down to frilly bits:-

• Is there a price advantage?
• Does either airline offer more advantageous fare conditions?
• Are there frequent flyer advantages, particularly because of the earning restrictions that one sometimes finds in relation to partner carriers or specific booking classes?
• What arrangements are there for seat allocation?

Negative comments about Iberia won't impact your decision as you will be flying on exactly the same flights whichever airline you book through.

 

If everything else is completely equal, then you are likely to be better off booking through the operating carrier simply because you have cut out one layer of possible miscommunication. But, as I say, these days that's really pretty unlikely.