Who Wants an End to HAL Formal Nights Entirely?

[Hokiepacker]

Formal nights should be restricted to the top level of the dining room. All other dress should be "club casual".

[RuthC]

I love seeing a man dressed up. Is it too much to ask?

Sadly, in many cases, it is. Like little boys who just got older.

And then throw a tantrum when they are expected to eat in the casual dining room when they dress casually.

Peter Pan.

[Roz]

Lorekauf,

 

I'm with you. I've lusted after other women's husbands on formal night, looking all hot and sexy in their tuxes. :D

 

Roz

[WhansaMi]

If I had read much of the HAL threads before I booked, I would never have set foot on board. Sounded like a lot of people in suites with cases of wine spending a lot of time keeping plain folks stuck in the bowels of the ship.:eek:

The cuise was nothing like that, the snobs on these boards were not to be found on board. Likewise the sloppy hillbillys and (with one exception) chair hogs. Very enjoyable voyage.:):cool:

 

While I'm going to disagree with you on the characterization of all people who want to retain formal nights as snobs (I believe a great many are simply traditionalists who are traditional in other ways as well), I absolutely agree with you that what is said on this board is not indicative of what you actually find on board HAL ships.

 

I think a lot of what is said here is a form of propoganda -- people speak as if things are one way, because they are unhappy with how the line has become less formal, and hope that, by saying it is more formal, people -- especially those who have not sailed the line before -- will concede, bring along formal clothing, and then wear them throughout the evening, for fear of not doing so.

 

What I found on the Rotterdam is that, yes, people wore more "dressed up" clothing to dinner in the MDR on formal nights than other nights, although many women wore just nice dresses or pantsuits instead of cocktail gown, and lots of men wore jackets, rather than a suit or tuxedo. When not in the dining room (i.e., in all of the other areas of the ship) easily half of the people were not in formal wear of any type.

 

BTW, I don't particularly enjoy formal nights -- and, yes, I am a woman --- and would be perfectly happy to have them eliminated. I do, however, wear clothing that falls within the realm of acceptable clothes, as indicated by the dress code (although, not within the realm of what some of the people on CC find acceptable!), because, as folks have said, I voluntarily signed up for this cruise, on this line.

 

I have purchased a blazer for my 20 year old son, and he will wear it to dinner on those nights, with slacks, but, I will not request that he remain so attired after dinner -- if he wishes change into his regular attire of khakis and a nice t-shirt or polo shirt, he will may certainly do so, with my blessing. And, he will have plenty of company.

 

To those of you who fear you will be looked down upon if you are out and about on formal nights, please don't worry. As I said, I think what is often said on this board reflects the desire of what some *wish* thing were, rather than what things actually are.

[UandMe4Ever]

Hi Cruisers: One thing that really interests me: Why would someone pay a lot more for an HAL cruise, because it still have the "Formal Ambiance" throughout the ship, especially in the MDR, and then choose to eat in the Buffet, so they don't have to dress up? Makes no sense. Is it just to say they were on a HAL ship???

 

For the most part,the food is a little better (not always -- a little too Gourmet some nights) than other ships!!!

 

I know it's "to each their own", but I'd rather choose the ship I'd be most comfortable on, dressing as suggested, etc., and not complain about having to dress up or not!

 

Just enjoy the fact you're on a nice cruise ship. Why all the ranting and raving about dress codes? You know about them before you cruise, so cruise and don't complain about silly things. Life is to short to complain about dress codes. Be grateful you can afford to cruise -- HAL or any other ships.

 

Sorry for the rant and no flaming please. Just my opinion.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

While I'm going to disagree with you on the characterization of all people who want to retain formal nights as snobs (I believe a great many are simply traditionalists who are traditional in other ways as well), I absolutely agree with you that what is said on this board is not indicative of what you actually find on board HAL ships.

 

I think a lot of what is said here is a form of propoganda -- people speak as if things are one way, because they are unhappy with how the line has become less formal, and hope that, by saying it is more formal, people -- especially those who have not sailed the line before -- will concede, bring along formal clothing, and then wear them throughout the evening, for fear of not doing so.

 

What I found on the Rotterdam is that, yes, people wore more "dressed up" clothing to dinner in the MDR on formal nights than other nights, although many women wore just nice dresses or pantsuits instead of cocktail gown, and lots of men wore jackets, rather than a suit or tuxedo. When not in the dining room (i.e., in all of the other areas of the ship) easily half of the people were not in formal wear of any type.

 

BTW, I don't particularly enjoy formal nights -- and, yes, I am a woman --- and would be perfectly happy to have them eliminated. I do, however, wear clothing that falls within the realm of acceptable clothes, as indicated by the dress code (although, not within the realm of what some of the people on CC find acceptable!), because, as folks have said, I voluntarily signed up for this cruise, on this line.

 

I have purchased a blazer for my 20 year old son, and he will wear it to dinner on those nights, with slacks, but, I will not request that he remain so attired after dinner -- if he wishes change into his regular attire of khakis and a nice t-shirt or polo shirt, he will may certainly do so, with my blessing. And, he will have plenty of company.

 

To those of you who fear you will be looked down upon if you are out and about on formal nights, please don't worry. As I said, I think what is often said on this board reflects the desire of what some *wish* thing were, rather than what things actually are.

Excellent post and attitude :)

I totally agree, granted it was a year this week that I was last on a HAL cruise but I seriously doubt that things have changed ;) In all honesty I saw more people dressed Formal on the Formal or Not night on NCL a few weeks ago than I did on our Alaska cruise on the Westerdam last year.

To the OP trust me you do not have to worry about being that Formal, HAL is not a snobby line. While they may ocaisionally ask men without a jacket if they have one when entering the MDR I have seen many a time they did not.

Up till last year I had only had the opportunity to cruise 7 day voyages then we got the chance to do a 14 day Panama Canal last year. DH always brings his tux on a HAL cruise and we expected this to be the most Formal on Formal nights of all the cruises we had taken because of the longer itinerary. We found it to be the opposite, granted there were a few men in White Dinner jackets but the percentage of men in tuxes was very low. Many of the men did not even wear a jacket, a couple men I noticed would always be carrying their jacket like to say it is warm right now and I have it with me if I need it. But in reality in looking at one of them in particular my guess is that the jacket no longer fit and he was carrying it around to look like he at least had a jacket (never saw him wear it the whole cruise) :D

 

As for the women Oh My the days of gowns are truly gone, unless there has been a wedding on board you might actually find less than 2% wearing a gown. Yes you may see many in a long dress but that is not a gown. The biggest percentage are wearing cocktail dresses and or dressy pant suits.

[world~citizen]

Hi Cruisers: One thing that really interests me: Why would someone pay a lot more for an HAL cruise, because it still have the "Formal Ambiance" throughout the ship, especially in the MDR, and then choose to eat in the Buffet, so they don't have to dress up? Makes no sense. Is it just to say they were on a HAL ship???

 

For the most part,the food is a little better (not always -- a little too Gourmet some nights) than other ships!!!

 

I know it's "to each their own", but I'd rather choose the ship I'd be most comfortable on, dressing as suggested, etc., and not complain about having to dress up or not!

 

Just enjoy the fact you're on a nice cruise ship. Why all the ranting and raving about dress codes? You know about them before you cruise, so cruise and don't complain about silly things. Life is to short to complain about dress codes. Be grateful you can afford to cruise -- HAL or any other ships.

 

Sorry for the rant and no flaming please. Just my opinion.

 

Absolutely.

 

You choose the cruise you are most comfortable with considering things like the dining experience and just go with it.

 

As I understand it, some people in good faith suggest that it would be better for everyone if the dining regs were amended. That turns into something of a push and shove and the rest is history.

 

I really believe the guys at HAL head office who get briefed on the goings on in these threads become a bit perplexed - unsure as to wether they should laugh hysterically or weep inconsolably as they try to divine from our conversations what in the world we want.:):eek:

 

Then again, thats what they get paid the big bucks for.

 

Smooth sailing...

[melehundele]

It appears a motion for summary judgment/summary dispoaition is not appropriate as questions of fact and of "law" appear to remain...

 

I am heading off for my first HAL cruise next week. The last person I told that I had never sailed on HAL, who was at that moment sailing on HAL, said, "You aren't old enough." But I want to give it a try, as I have been playing the field on the cruise lines.

 

As to the formal night conundrum, on any line, I would as soon see it go away. However, I know that it is important to some passengers, and if the importance is based on their desire to have an "occasion" to get gussied up, bully for them. If the importance is based on wanting to be seen all gussied up (kind of like a bride on her wedding day), well, OK. To that end, I think those objectives would be met ANY night on a cruise, because no one forces you to dress down on non-formal nights.

 

However, it seems as if much of the enjoyment is in the "scenery," that is the surroundings composed of similarly dressed people. Or if it isn't the ambience created by everyone being dressed the same, maybe the formal dressers would feel out of place if they are dressed to a higher standard than the rest of the passengers? If either is the case, I think the best solution would be to designate one or more dining areas as formal and leave a dining room for the not-quite-formal-night dressers.

 

I grudgingly accept formal nights because my traveling companion wants to eat the menu served in the MDR on those nights. If the same menu was available on the lido or another "seated" dining area, the problem would be solved. She feels cheated, however, to not get to eat the "good things" that are served on formal night, so we all dress up.

 

I have been thwarted in my dressing up, however. I have some sort of mysterious condition that causes me to swell up without warning. I literally seem to have tides. In fact, I recently tried on a suit for an interview the night before, then dressed in the morning and found it did not fit me 14 hours later. It is baffling and distressing, and on one occasion I found myself not fitting into my packed "formal night" outfit because of this strange circumstance. So, that night, no formal night menu for my party.

 

On my recent NCL cruise I seem to have committed an apparel faux pas, not even on formal night. After traipsing around Guatamala one day, my mom had blistered swollen feet that none of her packed shoes would accomodate. I lent her my open, not formal but acceptable shoes, but my own feet didn't fit into any of my more confining shoes. I threw on my Crocs to run to trivia to meet some new friends/team members, and afterward we all walked to the dining room for dinner. I did not even think about the footwear situation, but my mom still had my sandals and I had my Crocs. The look one diner gave me as we made our way to our table (where, by the way, my feet were stowed out of view from that point on) plum near burned those Crocs right off my feet.

 

At any rate, my attitude leans to accomodating everyone, including the formal wear horses and the cruise casual afficionados. Everyone has paid a price to be on the ship and eat the food, and everyone has the right to enjoy their vacation. It is perplexing to me, however, that what someone else might happen to wear (or wear on their feet) causes such consternation to certain passengers.

[sail7seas]

<snip>

 

However, it seems as if much of the enjoyment is in the "scenery," that is the surroundings composed of similarly dressed people. Or if it isn't the ambience created by everyone being dressed the same, maybe the formal dressers would feel out of place if they are dressed to a higher standard than the rest of the passengers? If either is the case, I think the best solution would be to designate one or more dining areas as formal and leave a dining room for the not-quite-formal-night dressers.

 

 

HAL has designated such a place...... Lido.

 

 

I grudgingly accept formal nights because my traveling companion wants to eat the menu served in the MDR on those nights. If the same menu was available on the lido or another "seated" dining area, the problem would be solved. She feels cheated, however, to not get to eat the "good things" that are served on formal night, so we all dress up.

 

 

 

Most of the MDR menu is served each night in Lido.

 

All of MDR menu is available every night for Room Service.

 

 

At any rate, my attitude leans to accomodating everyone, including the formal wear horses and the cruise casual afficionados. Everyone has paid a price to be on the ship and eat the food, and everyone has the right to enjoy their vacation. It is perplexing to me, however, that what someone else might happen to wear (or wear on their feet) causes such consternation to certain passengers.

 

 

"Formal wear horses??? :confused: Calling those who wish to dress according to HAL's dress code "horses" really isn't necessary, is it? That supports your viewpoint in some way?

 

If you don't wish to dress, don't. But please omit the name calling.

Thanks.

 

 

There were some really great posts in this thread IMO and some excellent points were set out.

I always wore long dresses on formal nights but now only occassionally. I know far more often wear cocktail dresses or crepe/satin/silk pants or skirt with dressy top. I feel formal night has been compromised by permitting a gent to wear blazer and tie and call it formal but have gotten used to it. We all know a gent in a blazer and chinos is not dressed formal but if HAL says that is adequate, then that is fine. They set the standard. The first few cruises, I felt sad about it but now don't really care. It isn't worth my upsetting my enjoyment to pay attention to it anymore. We will dress to whatever code HAL sets out as we feel that to be the courteous, mannered thing to do. If, at some point, they eliminate jackets and ties, we shall dress as they outline.

 

Lots of other traditions have faded from HAL ships and today's cruises have evolved into experiences somewhat different than years past and are still evolving. Society has changed and the companies that stay with the mood of the people, will thrive and those who don't may not survive. HAL has lots of very smart people who know how to run a cruise line. Every reason to think they are and will continue to do just fine.

 

We love our times on HAL ships and we love, love, love their crews and have every intention of continuing to sail, all things permitting us to do so. I don't intend to tell anyone else what they should like or not and if we decide we no longer like what cruising evolves into, we will face that when/if it happens.

 

What is interesting in this thread IMO is without having counted the yes vs no votes, my impression is far more voted to continue formal nights than voted nay. This is just an informal, small sampling but maybe indicative of the whole??

 

I'll be packing my DH's dinner jacket and my cocktail dresses for our upcoming Maasdam cruises....... but I'll also bring him a blazer or sports jacket in the event he chooses to wear that instead.

 

We are about the last ones you would have thought would agree to 'dressing down' on formal night.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[melehundele]

I was not name calling. That was simply a derivative of "clothes horse." If advocates of formal night are not people concerned with dress, than I used an incorrect term. I am sorry that you seem to have taken offense as it was not my intent.

 

I have not been on a ship where the identical menu was offered on the buffet. Generally there are a few common items but there the similarities end. I look forward to finding the differences on HAL versus other lines.

 

I follow the rules as established and I appreciate the propriety of dressing in a different manner for different venues. That is something we learn to understand from dining on land. But the concept of formal night seems contrived. The ship does not unveil a new, fancier dining room on those nights. The menu is somewhat different, but maybe not that much. So the fact of the dress code changing markedly from what is generally accepted in the same venue, on 5 of 7 nights, is odd. Perhaps this is just a phase of cruising evolution, a midpoint between the era of all "formal nights" when the dress overall was more formal onboard, and wide-scale casual-ization.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

 

Lots of other traditions have faded from HAL ships and today's cruises have evolved into experiences somewhat different than years past and are still evolving. Society has changed and the companies that stay with the mood of the people, will thrive and those who don't may not survive. HAL has lots of very smart people who know how to run a cruise line. Every reason to think they are and will continue to do just fine.

 

 

 

Sail, unfortunately I feel HAL started this whole Dress Down thing themselves when they eliminated the greeting of the Captain and picture taken with the Captain. When HAL made a much bigger deal out of the Captain's Welcome Aboard first Formal night and intruduced many of the Officers cruisers knew they would be meeting and shaking hands with the Captain, having a chance to have their picture taken with him they felt the need to dress more Formal. Now sadly there is no such thing, the silly Captain's Toast takes a whole 10 minutes at most, there is no more Live band playing music and allowing guest to Dance before the introduction. Now in most cases there is Bingo going on just minutes before the first Captain's Toast and people remain sitting there in their flip flops, t shirts and shorts while those that dressed up for the evening sit there with a glass of champagne. I miss the old days :o I saw the drastic change in Formal dress after that.

Oddly there is so much talk about referring people to NCL on this thread. So many of you would be so surprised NCL still does many of the traditional things that HAL has done away with. NCL feels more like HAL use to be. Unless you have actually sailed on NCL recently you should not be referring to it negatively.

[WhansaMi]

Sail, unfortunately I feel HAL started this whole Dress Down thing themselves when they eliminated the greeting of the Captain and picture taken with the Captain. When HAL made a much bigger deal out of the Captain's Welcome Aboard first Formal night and intruduced many of the Officers cruisers knew they would be meeting and shaking hands with the Captain, having a chance to have their picture taken with him they felt the need to dress more Formal.

 

I think it is just a good business decision. The fact is, the population that values the high formalities has gotten older, and, frankly, are dying or are too debilitated to cruise. Therefore, the company must look toward a new customer base, and, in general, people are not as concerned with the formalities as they used to be. The company is responding appropriately to this, lessening the emphasis on formalities.

 

Sure, the company could market themselves differently, as an exceptionally formal environment that *requires* specific behaviors by the guests, but doing that reduces the potential customer base.

 

HAL needs its ships to sail full. That would *not* happen if they had stricter requirements for their guests. Many people today value comfort. Perhaps luxurious comfort, but comfort nonetheless. :-)

[sail7seas]

Good point, Lisa.

Some changes probably are/were HAL insituted, others were in response to guests' wishes.

I don't know how blurred the lines are between HAL vs. guests in terms of some of the changes...... many of which, by the way, I am happy about. Of course, there are some I like very much and some a bit less so. :)

 

But, clearly, we still love HAL ships/crews/cruises.

 

As to NCL, I don't think I've ever made a single reference to that cruise line and have never been on one of their ships so have no way to comment. We're still ALL HAL. :D

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

I think it is just a good business decision. The fact is, the population that values the high formalities has gotten older, and, frankly, are dying or are too debilitated to cruise. Therefore, the company must look toward a new customer base, and, in general, people are not as concerned with the formalities as they used to be. The company is responding appropriately to this, lessening the emphasis on formalities.

 

Sure, the company could market themselves differently, as an exceptionally formal environment that *requires* specific behaviors by the guests, but doing that reduces the potential customer base.

 

HAL needs its ships to sail full. That would *not* happen if they had stricter requirements for their guests. Many people today value comfort. Perhaps luxurious comfort, but comfort nonetheless. :-)

 

Some (maybe a lot) of what you say is true but reading through this thread, it seems many younger folks also value formal night. It isn't only seniors. In fact, on formal nights, we often see some of the older folks dressed quite casual.

[WhansaMi]

Some (maybe a lot) of what you say is true but reading through this thread, it seems many younger folks also value formal night. It isn't only seniors. In fact, on formal nights, we often see some of the older folks dressed quite casual.

 

That is true, but there aren't ENOUGH of those folks to create a strong customer base. So, HAL's response is to become more moderate. Think about it, we made fuss and argue on this board, but, ultimately, we are all sailing on HAL ships. Apparently, HAL's current policies are enough to satisfy those who enjoy the formalities, while use of the terns "recommended" and "suggested" in the statement about formalwear gives those who are not inclined toward the formalities a "wink and nod" way of getting around it.

 

While there is much angst and beating of breast on this board, ultimately, it is a good business decision.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Good point, Lisa.

 

As to NCL, I don't think I've ever made a single reference to that cruise line and have never been on one of their ships so have no way to comment. We're still ALL HAL. :D

 

 

Oh I know you never made reference to NCL but there were plenty that did. I would venture to say that those that did and or referred to NCL have not sailed on NCL or at least recently.

Some (maybe a lot) of what you say is true but reading through this thread, it seems many younger folks also value formal night. It isn't only seniors. In fact, on formal nights, we often see some of the older folks dressed quite casual.

Sail I totally agree, those older folks in most cases are the ones NOT dressing up at all. When I referred to our 2 week Panama Canal cruise being the least Formal dressed cruise the average age was something like 78 I think the Hotel Manager told us. Seriously there were so many in the dining room celebrating their 90 something birthday it was amazing. I was 54 when I took that cruise and was definitely in the youngest category :D I would say that most over 70 did not dress truly Formal for Formal nights.

 

Unfortunately my statement above solidifies for those that believe HAL is for the more mature cruiser but I totally disagree. Most Vista Class 7 day sailings have an average age of 40 something ;)

[WhansaMi]

 

Unfortunately my statement above solidifies for those that believe HAL is for the more mature cruiser but I totally disagree. Most Vista Class 7 day sailings have an average age of 40 something ;)

 

That certainly wasn't the case on the Rotterdam two years ago, but of course, things change.

 

I'll let you know about the Prinsendam when I get back in July. :-)

[serendipity1499]

Sail, unfortunately I feel HAL started this whole Dress Down thing themselves when they eliminated the greeting of the Captain and picture taken with the Captain. When HAL made a much bigger deal out of the Captain's Welcome Aboard first Formal night and intruduced many of the Officers cruisers knew they would be meeting and shaking hands with the Captain, having a chance to have their picture taken with him they felt the need to dress more Formal. Now sadly there is no such thing, the silly Captain's Toast takes a whole 10 minutes at most, there is no more Live band playing music and allowing guest to Dance before the introduction. Now in most cases there is Bingo going on just minutes before the first Captain's Toast and people remain sitting there in their flip flops, t shirts and shorts while those that dressed up for the evening sit there with a glass of champagne. I miss the old days :o I saw the drastic change in Formal dress after that.

 

Oddly there is so much talk about referring people to NCL on this thread. So many of you would be so surprised NCL still does many of the traditional things that HAL has done away with. NCL feels more like HAL use to be. Unless you have actually sailed on NCL recently you should not be referring to it negatively.

 

Touché' Lisa...Agree with you..We sailed on the NCL Crown four years ago & were prepared for the worst...However it was a lovely traditional cruise, which we remembered from years before...We never encountered uncouth passengers who were poorly dressed, as so many on this board seem to assume they are... :(

 

Cheers...:)Betty

[serendipity1499]

Sail I totally agree, those older folks in most cases are the ones NOT dressing up at all. When I referred to our 2 week Panama Canal cruise being the least Formal dressed cruise the average age was something like 78 I think the Hotel Manager told us. Seriously there were so many in the dining room celebrating their 90 something birthday it was amazing. I was 54 when I took that cruise and was definitely in the youngest category :D I would say that most over 70 did not dress truly Formal for Formal nights.

 

 

Unfortunately my statement above solidifies for those that believe HAL is for the more mature cruiser but I totally disagree. Most Vista Class 7 day sailings have an average age of 40 something ;)

 

That certainly wasn't the case on the Rotterdam two years ago, but of course, things change.

 

I'll let you know about the Prinsendam when I get back in July. :-)

 

Since when are the Rotterdam & Prinsendam Vista Class ships?:confused:

Lisa referred to Vista Class 7 day sailings..The Rotterdam is an "R" class ship & the Prinsendam is the oldest & smallest ship of the fleet which does not do 7 day cruises..

IMO, in her short tenure as a TA, Lisa has become quite knowledgeable & seems to know the demographic of many cruise lines including HAL..However, we also noticed the same thing on our Alaska, 7 day cruise on the Veendam (S class ship) & also wonder if that will be the case on our Bermuda cruise in August..I think the shorter cruises have the younger people with families & the longer cruises seem to have the more Mature folks who are retired & can afford the time off for the longer vacations..

Cheers.....:)Betty

[WhansaMi]

Since when are the Rotterdam & Prinsendam Vista Class ships?:confused:

Lisa referred to Vista Class 7 day sailings..The Rotterdam is an "R" class ship & the Prinsendam is the oldest & smallest ship of the fleet which does not do 7 day cruises..

IMO, in her short tenure as a TA, Lisa has become quite knowledgeable & seems to know the demographic of many cruise lines including HAL..However, we also noticed the same thing on our Alaska, 7 day cruise on the Veendam (S class ship) & also wonder if that will be the case on our Bermuda cruise in August..I think the shorter cruises have the younger people with families & the longer cruises seem to have the more Mature folks who are retired & can afford the time off for the longer vacations..

Cheers.....:)Betty

 

I'm sorry... I didn't realize the discussion of formal wear, age of passengers and such was limited to a specific type of ship within the fleet. I must have missed that memo.

[dland4us]

We are going to Alaska on the Zaandam in July. My mother is packing Alfred Dunner pant outfits for formal nights. They are very pretty. She doesn't wear dresses anymore (too cold). Will that be dressy enough for formal nights?

[RuthC]

My mother is packing Alfred Dunner pant outfits for formal nights. Will that be dressy enough for formal nights?

The Alfred Dunner pant suits I've seen wouldn't be dressy enough. I've seen the ones that are appropriate for work, or church. Maybe Alfred Dunner makes pant suits that are sparkly, or of a dressy fabric, but I haven't seen them.

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

We are going to Alaska on the Zaandam in July. My mother is packing Alfred Dunner pant outfits for formal nights. They are very pretty. She doesn't wear dresses anymore (too cold). Will that be dressy enough for formal nights?

 

If you were to ask me I would say that's fine, but then again I'm not hung up on the idea that something is dressy enough or is not dressy enough. :confused: Dress repectfully and I say it's good. I say go and have a good time in Alfred's clothes. :)

[dland4us]

Thank you! I really want my mother to have a wonderful time!

[cruz chic]

I'm sorry... I didn't realize the discussion of formal wear, age of passengers and such was limited to a specific type of ship within the fleet. I must have missed that memo.

 

But you quoted Lisa's post about Vista class ships...and I thought the same thing.