Tipping and Service Charge

[dnl_in_Illinois]

I read the FAQ's regarding tipping and the service charge which appears to be another form of a tip as the cash is distributed across the service people on the ship. I'm trying to understand:

 

Is the service charge discretionary? That is, can I avoid the service charge and do tipping on my own?

 

Does the room steward receive a portion of the service charge tip? Does anyone know what percentage? Should I feel compelled to tip the room steward extra (assuming expected service - better than expected I'm sure can be rewarded with a cash tip).

 

On other lines the service or gratuity charge is voluntary. We have always paid it and rewarded people here and there with additional cash when we thought they were exceptional. I'm trying to better understand how NCL approaches this. It is our first NCL cruise.

[sailing-nut]

Hi,

Yes, the tip is discretionary....But the tips all go in a pool and everyone gets a cut of the money and I say everyone...I always tip my cabin steward and his associate ($20 a piece) the first thing and they really take good care of me....

 

I always feel that if everyone does a good job I will tip them on the spot or if they don't NO TIP....you be surprised what a dollar will get you..or even five..

 

They all work hard to please you so I have in the past left the per day tip on my bill plus all the tips that I give out...

 

Pete

[nezume]

Be careful... this is a hot topic here on the NCL boards. Basically it's best to just leave the service charge in place and tip extra as you see fit. You COULD remove it, but they will ask for reasons why and will try to resolve the issue. There are a lot of staff members who you don't see who contribute to your cruise and are a part of the service charge pool.

 

Plus, who wants to carry cash around the ship on vacation anyways? It's nice not to have to worry about it and just carry your room key, pool towel etc around!

[dnl_in_Illinois]

Be careful... this is a hot topic here on the NCL boards. Basically it's best to just leave the service charge in place and tip extra as you see fit. You COULD remove it, but they will ask for reasons why and will try to resolve the issue. There are a lot of staff members who you don't see who contribute to your cruise and are a part of the service charge pool.

 

Plus, who wants to carry cash around the ship on vacation anyways? It's nice not to have to worry about it and just carry your room key, pool towel etc around!

 

I totally understand that, and I appreciate your response. But this is being presented as non-discretionary. I do not care for that.

 

As I said in my post -- we have ALWAYS paid the gratuity charge on other ships and then some. I do not like the fact that I do not have the option to remove the charge if I wish. Additionally, as other lines do, I'd like to know what percentages go to certain staff -- like my room steward or butler or the concierge. Those are the people that I will have the most exposure to and I would like to be assured they are appropriately rewarded if I am pleased. I can not make an assessment unless I know what they are paid. Absent any information -- I would not give them anything and assume they receive the larger portion of my $60 a day service charge (there are 5 of us traveling including 2 young children).

 

Can you help me more with my question?

[dnl_in_Illinois]

Hi,

Yes, the tip is discretionary....But the tips all go in a pool and everyone gets a cut of the money and I say everyone...I always tip my cabin steward and his associate ($20 a piece) the first thing and they really take good care of me....

 

I always feel that if everyone does a good job I will tip them on the spot or if they don't NO TIP....you be surprised what a dollar will get you..or even five..

 

They all work hard to please you so I have in the past left the per day tip on my bill plus all the tips that I give out...

 

Pete

 

Thanks Pete, and I see that you have considerable NCL experience. In the past I have handled tips as you have -- leave the gratuity charge in place and add more for some people like the room steward or -- on HAL -- the table waiters to care for us at each meal. The FAQ's on the Epic web site are not clear that the "service charge" is discretionary and it seems like it would be a hassle to have the charge removed. Do you know anything more about that?

 

Are you from Chicago?

[nezume]

I totally understand that, and I appreciate your response. But this is being presented as non-discretionary. I do not care for that.

 

As I said in my post -- we have ALWAYS paid the gratuity charge on other ships and then some. I do not like the fact that I do not have the option to remove the charge if I wish. Additionally, as other lines do, I'd like to know what percentages go to certain staff -- like my room steward or butler or the concierge. Those are the people that I will have the most exposure to and I would like to be assured they are appropriately rewarded if I am pleased.

 

Can you help me more with my question?

 

I've never heard them use the term "discretionary". It can be adjusted if you're not satisfied with the service provided, but as I said before, they will ask for reasons and will try to prevent you from doing so by assisting to resolve any issues that arise.

 

NCL is not like other lines. On other lines you would have the same waiter, bus boy etc every night. Rather than have you had every person that enhances your experience, everytime they help, they have the service charge.

 

I've never seen any numbers on how it's distributed, but the staff seems to be generally happy to help and cheerful so I think that speaks volumes for itself.

 

Additionally, your butler and concierge are not included in the DSC (daily service charge) and you should tip them extra. How much is entirely dependent upon how much you utilize their services.

[dnl_in_Illinois]

I've never heard them use the term "discretionary". It can be adjusted if you're not satisfied with the service provided, but as I said before, they will ask for reasons and will try to prevent you from doing so by assisting to resolve any issues that arise.

 

NCL is not like other lines. On other lines you would have the same waiter, bus boy etc every night. Rather than have you had every person that enhances your experience, everytime they help, they have the service charge.

 

I've never seen any numbers on how it's distributed, but the staff seems to be generally happy to help and cheerful so I think that speaks volumes for itself.

 

Additionally, your butler and concierge are not included in the DSC (daily service charge) and you should tip them extra. How much is entirely dependent upon how much you utilize their services.

 

Well that is helpful. But I do observe that we will have the same room steward every day. It's only the wait staff that's different from other cruise lines. I am glad to know about the butler and concierge.

 

This is a very deceptive practice. Basically the service charge is an additional fee that should be built into the booking fee since it is actually part of the NCL staff earnings. NCL is asking us to pay additional for the cost of labor. I would think that the company would expect good service from its employees including the behind the scenes people. Since the charge is non-discretionary, the employees expect to receive it and to represent the service charge as an incentive is disingenuous. How would I deal with a situation that one of the restaurant workers was less than helpful? Spend my time asking for a reduction in service charge for that person? That doesn't make sense.

 

NCL would serve itself by representing the policy differently and give people the option. That said -- if the policy was optional I probably wouldn't ask for it to be changed. It's a matter of perception, principle and good business practices to me. The practice does taint my thinking about NCL and the possibility of booking additional cruises. I do not like doing business with a company that is less than straight forward about its practices. This is a fact that should have been made clear right from the start.

 

When I asked my TA about this she advised me that she was unaware of the practice. Interesting since I deal with a very large organization that books $1,000,000 in cruises every year. My point -- it's not just a small company or one person operation who may not have the resources. Sorry for my rant here. Thanks again for your perspective and information. THAT I do appreciate.

[nezume]

Well that is helpful. But I do observe that we will have the same room steward every day. It's only the wait staff that's different from other cruise lines. I am glad to know about the butler and concierge.

 

This is a very deceptive practice. Basically the service charge is an additional fee that should be built into the booking fee since it is actually part of the NCL staff earnings. NCL is asking us to pay additional for the cost of labor. I would think that the company would expect good service from its employees including the behind the scenes people. Since the charge is non-discretionary, the employees expect to receive it and to represent the service charge as an incentive is disingenuous. How would I deal with a situation that one of the restaurant workers was less than helpful? Spend my time asking for a reduction in service charge for that person? That doesn't make sense.

 

NCL would serve itself by representing the policy differently and give people the option. That said -- if the policy was optional I probably wouldn't ask for it to be changed. It's a matter of perception, principle and good business practices to me. The practice does taint my thinking about NCL and the possibility of booking additional cruises. I do not like doing business with a company that is less than straight forward about its practices. This is a fact that should have been made clear right from the start.

 

When I asked my TA about this she advised me that she was unaware of the practice. Interesting since I deal with a very large organization that books $1,000,000 in cruises every year. My point -- it's not just a small company or one person operation who may not have the resources. Sorry for my rant here. Thanks again for your perspective and information. THAT I do appreciate.

 

I see where you're coming from. It would be nice if it was all inclusive like several luxury lines, or AI resorts. But the fact is NCL competes with RCI, Celebrity, HAL etc who all do not include tips in their fares either. People who compare prices without realizing that NCL's price includes tips would simply assume NCL is too expensive, out of their budget or simply that they can get a better deal somewhere else and NCL would loose that business.

 

I think it's their way of simplifying things for the shopper so they can compare apples to apples.

[sailing-nut]

Thanks Pete, and I see that you have considerable NCL experience. In the past I have handled tips as you have -- leave the gratuity charge in place and add more for some people like the room steward or -- on HAL -- the table waiters to care for us at each meal. The FAQ's on the Epic web site are not clear that the "service charge" is discretionary and it seems like it would be a hassle to have the charge removed. Do you know anything more about that?

 

Are you from Chicago?

 

Hi All,

 

Yes, I have to agree It is really not a hassle to remove the tips but like I said I do tip for great service.

 

Where are your rooms ? Also you will always have the same cabin stewards and your butler and concierge are not included in the DSC (daily service charge) and you should tip them extra. How much is entirely dependent upon how much you utilize their services. This is so true.

 

Also you will have different wait staff every night...and the drinks... the tip is added on to your drink...adult beverage to soda....so don't over tip on that one....

 

Yes, I am from Niles prwsjma@yahoo.com I will tell you more if you would like...or answer any more questions you have...

Pete

[dnl_in_Illinois]

I see where you're coming from. It would be nice if it was all inclusive like several luxury lines, or AI resorts. But the fact is NCL competes with RCI, Celebrity, HAL etc who all do not include tips in their fares either. People who compare prices without realizing that NCL's price includes tips would simply assume NCL is too expensive, out of their budget or simply that they can get a better deal somewhere else and NCL would loose that business.

 

I think it's their way of simplifying things for the shopper so they can compare apples to apples.

 

An excellent point. But we don't have "apples to apples" because NCL does not treat the service charge as other cruise lines handle it -- that is -- it is not discretionary. If that were the case - I would have no issue. As it is now -- we do not have an "apples to apples" comparison. NCL adds another $12 a day per person charge to my bill and for me not to pay that charge I have to build a business case to have it removed. That's not something I or most people wish to do on a vacation.

 

Maybe I am not understanding the degree of flexibility I will have re: paying the service charge or not. I do know (although I have never done it) I could say to HAL I do not want to pay the gratuity charge and they will remove it. Same with RCL. I do not sense that is the case with NCL. Once again, I do appreciate your discussion. Do you work for NCL?

[dnl_in_Illinois]

Hi All,

 

Yes, I have to agree It is really not a hassle to remove the tips but like I said I do tip for great service.

 

Where are your rooms ? Also you will always have the same cabin stewards and your butler and concierge are not included in the DSC (daily service charge) and you should tip them extra. How much is entirely dependent upon how much you utilize their services. This is so true.

 

Also you will have different wait staff every night...and the drinks... the tip is added on to your drink...adult beverage to soda....so don't over tip on that one....

 

Yes, I am from Niles prwsjma@yahoo.com I will tell you more if you would like...or answer any more questions you have...

Pete

 

Windy city was the give away Pete. Thanks again for your comments. I fear I'm beating a dead horse here as they say and you and the other responder have been great. My concern is with NCL and I should register my issues with them, and I will at the appropriate time. Right now I just want to enjoy the cruise. If I didn't have 2 young grand children with me as well as their parents - I probably wouldn't be so exercised. But $ 60 a day or a total of $420 and not clearly understanding who it goes to and in what proportions with no clear option to avoid the charge (or so it would seem without an effort on my part) is bothersome. I'm further annoyed that the charge comes at me as a surprise. I feel I should have known about it. Shame on me for not reading my contract. Thanks again. Enjoy the week of great weather we should continue to have.

[garycarla]

This topic is NOT Epic specific, but applies to all NCL ships. And, it gets beat up quite often on the main NCL boards.

[nezume]

An excellent point. But we don't have "apples to apples" because NCL does not treat the service charge as other cruise lines handle it -- that is -- it is not discretionary. If that were the case - I would have no issue. As it is now -- we do not have an "apples to apples" comparison. NCL adds another $12 a day per person charge to my bill and for me not to pay that charge I have to build a business case to have it removed. That's not something I or most people wish to do on a vacation.

 

Maybe I am not understanding the degree of flexibility I will have re: paying the service charge or not. I do know (although I have never done it) I could say to HAL I do not want to pay the gratuity charge and they will remove it. Same with RCL. I do not sense that is the case with NCL. Once again, I do appreciate your discussion. Do you work for NCL?

 

True, but I think most of the mass market lines are headed in the same direction. Crew morale starts to hurt when cruisers stiff the crew (not saying you do, but different cultures do not tip as Americans do) so I think this is their way of keeping their prices competitive and their crew happy. What gave you that idea? I read these boards frequently and prefer NCL... Are you refering to some of the NCL cheerleaders we see on these boards?

[dnl_in_Illinois]

True, but I think most of the mass market lines are headed in the same direction. Crew morale starts to hurt when cruisers stiff the crew (not saying you do, but different cultures do not tip as Americans do) so I think this is their way of keeping their prices competitive and their crew happy. What gave you that idea? I read these boards frequently and prefer NCL... Are you refering to some of the NCL cheerleaders we see on these boards?

 

Why did I think you worked for NCL? Your arguments are well presented and relevant, i.e. professional. So I thought you might be just defending your employers position. I think my problem is that we've sailed almost exclusively on HAL. We were on RCL 2 years ago - same tipping policy - just presented differently. It made me feel like I have an option. That's my only complaint. And yes -- your are correct about different tiping expectations among countries -- mostly Europe versus North America is my hunch. Enough for now. Thanks again.

[njhorseman]

An excellent point. But we don't have "apples to apples" because NCL does not treat the service charge as other cruise lines handle it -- that is -- it is not discretionary. If that were the case - I would have no issue. As it is now -- we do not have an "apples to apples" comparison. NCL adds another $12 a day per person charge to my bill and for me not to pay that charge I have to build a business case to have it removed. That's not something I or most people wish to do on a vacation.

 

Maybe I am not understanding the degree of flexibility I will have re: paying the service charge or not. I do know (although I have never done it) I could say to HAL I do not want to pay the gratuity charge and they will remove it. Same with RCL. I do not sense that is the case with NCL. Once again, I do appreciate your discussion. Do you work for NCL?

 

If you opt for "My Time Dining" on Royal Caribbean (their version of NCL's Freestyle Dining) you are required to prepay your gratuities. You have no option or discretion...they must be prepaid with your cruise fare.

[SeaShark]

I read the FAQ's regarding tipping and the service charge which appears to be another form of a tip as the cash is distributed across the service people on the ship. I'm trying to understand:

 

Is the service charge discretionary? That is, can I avoid the service charge and do tipping on my own?

 

Does the room steward receive a portion of the service charge tip? Does anyone know what percentage? Should I feel compelled to tip the room steward extra (assuming expected service - better than expected I'm sure can be rewarded with a cash tip).

 

On other lines the service or gratuity charge is voluntary. We have always paid it and rewarded people here and there with additional cash when we thought they were exceptional. I'm trying to better understand how NCL approaches this. It is our first NCL cruise.

 

 

I hesitate to really get into a well detailed response on this topic...this is just too much of a hot-button topic for some people who seem to want to jump on it just for the sake of bickering....

 

If you really want a better understanding of this, there are two concepts that you need to read up on and understand as to how they apply.

 

[1] The first is that there are legal/financial definitions for both a "service charge" and a "gratuity". These are NOT the same. If you go back and re-read the FAQ, you will see that NCL takes care to talk about gratuities and service charges in DIFFERENT sections....they have to for legal reasons. Understand what the difference is and don't confuse one with the other.

 

As a further example, this quote comes directly from the NCL Welcome Aboard Booklet. It is the last sentence of the paragraph that follows the question, "What about gratuities?"

 

Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services and all other NCL ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services.

 

Notice in reading this that for the passenger, you get 18% added to your spa and salon services no matter where you are sailing. HOWEVER, on the US Flagged ship, they take care to call it a "service charge" and on the International ships it is a "gratuity".

 

 

 

[2] The second concept is this whole idea that the service charge is somehow divided up into shares and is given to employees as though it is a shared "tip pool". There is NOTHING in writing to support this idea...this concept is message board urban legend....nothing else.

 

Here is the direct quote from the FAQ about the service charge:

 

Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

 

 

Now, here is that same quote with the key terms highlighted:

 

Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are

compensated by a combination

of salary and incentive programs that your service charge

supports

.

 

 

What this is saying is that the money collected from the daily service charges is used to help (supports) fund the paycheck (salary) and the various available incentive programs that are available to the crew. Examples of incentive programs would be things like crew morale parties, long distance phone cards or Internet time to contact home, employee of the week/month/year awards, etc.

 

 

NCL never uses the term "tip pool".

[nezume]

Thanks for a pleasant discussion.

[dnl_in_Illinois]

I hesitate to really get into a well detailed response on this topic...this is just too much of a hot-button topic for some people who seem to want to jump on it just for the sake of bickering....

 

If you really want a better understanding of this, there are two concepts that you need to read up on and understand as to how they apply.

 

[1] The first is that there are legal/financial definitions for both a "service charge" and a "gratuity". These are NOT the same. If you go back and re-read the FAQ, you will see that NCL takes care to talk about gratuities and service charges in DIFFERENT sections....they have to for legal reasons. Understand what the difference is and don't confuse one with the other.

 

As a further example, this quote comes directly from the NCL Welcome Aboard Booklet. It is the last sentence of the paragraph that follows the question, "What about gratuities?"

Pride of America has a service charge of 18% for all spa and salon services and all other NCL ships have an automatic gratuity of 18% for all spa and salon services.

Notice in reading this that for the passenger, you get 18% added to your spa and salon services no matter where you are sailing. HOWEVER, on the US Flagged ship, they take care to call it a "service charge" and on the International ships it is a "gratuity".

 

 

 

[2] The second concept is this whole idea that the service charge is somehow divided up into shares and is given to employees as though it is a shared "tip pool". There is NOTHING in writing to support this idea...this concept is message board urban legend....nothing else.

 

Here is the direct quote from the FAQ about the service charge:

Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports.

Now, here is that same quote with the key terms highlighted:

Our Crew (as are the crew from other lines) is encouraged to work together as a team. Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are

compensated by a combination

of salary and incentive programs that your service charge

supports

.

What this is saying is that the money collected from the daily service charges is used to help (supports) fund the paycheck (salary) and the various available incentive programs that are available to the crew. Examples of incentive programs would be things like crew morale parties, long distance phone cards or Internet time to contact home, employee of the week/month/year awards, etc.

 

 

NCL never uses the term "tip pool".

 

Thank you Sea Shark. Your points are very perceptive and in fact, in a way, support why I have become "exercised" on the subject. I was *not* reading carefully enough and clearly was mixing the concept of tipping or gratuity with the fact that I face a $12 a day service charge.

 

The fact is -- I was surprised by this. I was surprised that it was not discretionary, I felt that I was deceived and I am disturbed that it was not better communicated up front. I blame myself for not understanding the cruise costs better, but I also blame my TA and NCL. So now I know.

 

What does tend to muddle one's understanding is the last sentence in NCL's discussion of the Service Charge. It states: "It is our goal to reach a satisfactory solution to any issue when it happens and make sure our guests can focus on enjoying their cruise. Should your concerns not be met with satisfaction you can adjust the charges."

 

Words are words and interpretation is in the readers eyes. To me that implies that the service charge is a gratuity pool since if I am not pleased with my service I can have my share of the Service Charge either reduced or eliminated.

 

Having said all of this and after reading all of the excellent discussion -- I now hope to enjoy my cruise in August on the Epic. And just for the record - I'm sure I will pay the Service Charge and offer additional gratuities as appropriate. My suggestion to NCL is that the ServiceCharge should be better communicated up front. No surprises!

[DrD]

I kind of look at these mandatory service charges as that portion of my cruise that I don't have to pay for 90 days ahead of time. Bonus!

[dnl_in_Illinois]

I kind of look at these mandatory service charges as that portion of my cruise that I don't have to pay for 90 days ahead of time. Bonus!

 

 

Well that's a healthy way to look at it! I'll look at it that way next time. And next time I will know that it's not a discretionary "tip pool" but rather a mandatory service charge and are just part of the cost.

[mylesf]

Because you booked through a travel agent it was their responsibility to disclose this to you during the booking process, not NCL. You had no initial contact with them and/or any questions or concerns, should you try to contact NCL, will be directed back to your travel agent.

[jkryani]

We always always leave the tip on our bill and last time on the Pearl we did not realize that our butler and consigere were not included in this so we tipped them a lot extra, as well as our cabin steward when we realized it. we tipped our butler $100 and our consigeree the same as they were both amazing and we also tipped our cabin steward an extra 20.

These people work so hard for us and always with a smile. They are giving up being with their families for months on end to earn a better life for them, so I say tip generously when it is earned. May God bless these wonderful people and their families.

[dnl_in_Illinois]

Because you booked through a travel agent it was their responsibility to disclose this to you during the booking process, not NCL. You had no initial contact with them and/or any questions or concerns, should you try to contact NCL, will be directed back to your travel agent.

 

I agree with that. And I happen to use a large and professional TA organization that books millions in travel arrangements a year and I should expect more from them. I'm also well aware that if I contacted NCL that they would direct me back to my TA. That said -- NCL does not make their policy of a service charge clear or obvious. One has to "dig" find the facts and avoid the "surprise". Shame on me for not asking all the right questions or reading the cruise contract more closely!

[CaptData]

The butler and concierge do not get any of the pool money. You tip them separately.

[dnl_in_Illinois]

The butler and concierge do not get any of the pool money. You tip them separately.

 

Thanks for that - but I was aware and plan to reward them separately.

 

What I have learned through this discussion is that the Service Charge is not a "tipping pool". It is a customer charge that funds a pool of money for incentives which is part of the NCL compensation scheme used to incentivize good performance. Bottom line, it is an additional cost for the cruise. It might to some appear to be the same thing but it is not if the company has control of who receives the awards and how much. Other cruise lines I am familiar with tell you what percentages each of the individuals who serve you receive, e.g. the room steward, table servers, etc. RCL does not. I'm not suggesting it is wrong. But it is different from what other cruise companies are presently doing. Perhaps others will follow the NCL scheme.