NCL DAWN sexual assult on 6/28...

[STARFISH*4]

GOOD for Bermuda...taking care of this MATTER right away!!

i cant imagine at 18 what i would have done in that situation..probably the same as the girl only the first time it happened and i knew it wasnt an accident-- i would have asked my mom or dad to come with me and told them as soon as possible.

what a (cant type the word i really want to use)...thinking he thought it was okay to rest his foot on her knee....come on...i bet this isnt HIS "first" time!!!

[Mooder]

I hate to judge based on facts from any media outlet but if I were a betting man the fact that he did this with her present leads me to believe that she probably doesn't care that he's doing this type of thing.

 

very true a lot of women in these circumstances put on blinders especially if he's the sole bread winner of the household

 

Wow! We're "guessing" a lot about the poor wife. There is a HUGE difference between a woman not caring and the woman putting on blinders and/or feeling helpless.

 

Sparks, you can guess that he didn't care whether she knew, but I don't see how you can guess that she doesn't care what he does.

[Mooder]

While I agree that what he did was wrong and should be fined/locked up etc, this "teenager" was also 18, an adult. Giving someone a "look" while still allowing the foot to remain where it was is not enough. She needed to say NO and push his foot away. She's not a young girl or a young teenager. All she had to do is say something to him and call over someone to report it.

 

Yes, she shouldn't have had to go through that as it was horrible and yes, he should be held accountable for what he did to her. But at the same time, this whole thing could have been prevented if she had just said something to him. I would have understood if she was 12 or 14 but not 18, which in most places (including Bermuda), is deemed an adult.

 

This is where blaming the victim starts. I don't care how old a victim is, she is still a victim. While we may wish she could have stopped it immediately, there is nothing to be gained by judging her reaction. It is all about HIS behavior.

[Mooder]

I'm not condoning what he did in any way shape or form.

 

You may not realize it, but yes you are. You are placing the onus on her.

[dtiger]

I feel bad for the jerks wife.

[MissRabbit]

We hold the assaulter responsible - NOT the victim.

 

 

 

So those who are raped are at fault if they don't scream loudly enough? If they're drunk? Is it okay if a man has sex with a consenting young teen because she didn't say no?

 

She was likely in shock and did all she could by leaving the table as soon as she had the courage.

 

HE is responsible for HIS actions.

 

that's a silly comparison. in all the cases you listed, she was either held against her will, incompacitated or too young to be responsible for her actions. In this case, she was neither held against her will, incompacitated or too young to be responsible as she was 18 years old. Like i said, she could have just told him to back off or simply got up and left.

 

and yes, in case i wasn't abundantly clear in my previous posts, HE is responsible for HIS actions and he should suffer the penalty for it. I'm not saying anything contrary to that. What i AM saying is that it all could have been prevented if she had just stopped him, as she was clearly capable of doing as the article said she got up and left during dessert.

 

Yes, she was a victim but i also think it's ridiculous to think she was faultless as she had it within her power to stop it. I think people see "teenager" and immediately deem them as being helpless.

 

I've given my opinion on this. You've given yours. We both agree that the guy should pay for what he did. I just think that some responsibility lays in her lap for allowing it to continue when she clearly had other options. I'm not going to argue this further with you.

[Micchi]

Yes, she was a victim but i also think it's ridiculous to think she was faultless as she had it within her power to stop it. I think people see "teenager" and immediately deem them as being helpless.

 

I've given my opinion on this. You've given yours. We both agree that the guy should pay for what he did. I just think that some responsibility lays in her lap for allowing it to continue when she clearly had other options. I'm not going to argue this further with you.

 

She had no responsibility in this. It's unfortunate that you are so bent on blaming the victim. People like you are the reason why more sexual assaults are not reported.

[MissRabbit]

You may not realize it, but yes you are. You are placing the onus on her.

 

no i am not! please do NOT assume that i am. I completely believe he should pay for what he did. But i am saying that this could have been prevented if she had said something.

 

Should she be punished, no. Should he be punished, yes. But could it have been prevented, absolutely. THAT is the onus i'm placing on her.

[Mooder]

THAT is the onus i'm placing on her.

 

And there should be none. :(

[SnootieTootie]

I am trying to think how this may have happened

 

The newspaper account said that the accoster was sitting with his son, and his wife on each side of him, I think it even said that he had his arm around each of them.

 

If the victim was seated across the table, and she suddenly feels a foot climbing up her leg, for a second, she may have assumed that it was the foot of the son, and then realizes that it is the creepy dad.

 

When the father/accoster slumped down, as reported, she then realized that the advances were coming from an unwelcome source, the father.

 

Any which way, I think she was in shock, disbelief, and unsure how to react without making a huge scene.

 

Who knows how we would react. Give the girl a break, she did nothing wrong.

[snydermann]

I'm guessing alcohol was involved.

 

Not an excuse for their behaviors, just a possible contributor.

[Zeno]

Ewww! I am glad she reported the pervert and that Bermuda dealt with him.

[sparks1093]

Wow! We're "guessing" a lot about the poor wife. There is a HUGE difference between a woman not caring and the woman putting on blinders and/or feeling helpless.

 

Sparks, you can guess that he didn't care whether she knew, but I don't see how you can guess that she doesn't care what he does.

 

You are right, there are a lot of potential dynamics involved and I worded my response wrong- he didn't care that his wife was sitting right there. Definitely not a good situation.

[fin]

that's a silly comparison. in all the cases you listed, she was either held against her will, incompacitated or too young to be responsible for her actions. In this case, she was neither held against her will, incompacitated or too young to be responsible as she was 18 years old. Like i said, she could have just told him to back off or simply got up and left.

 

and yes, in case i wasn't abundantly clear in my previous posts, HE is responsible for HIS actions and he should suffer the penalty for it. I'm not saying anything contrary to that. What i AM saying is that it all could have been prevented if she had just stopped him, as she was clearly capable of doing as the article said she got up and left during dessert.

 

Yes, she was a victim but i also think it's ridiculous to think she was faultless as she had it within her power to stop it. I think people see "teenager" and immediately deem them as being helpless.

 

I've given my opinion on this. You've given yours. We both agree that the guy should pay for what he did. I just think that some responsibility lays in her lap for allowing it to continue when she clearly had other options. I'm not going to argue this further with you.

 

It is quite likely that the state of New York would agree with you too. One once served on a jury involving a rape, and the judicial concept of 'earnest resistance' was explained to us. At length:(

[Mooder]

It is quite likely that the state of New York would agree with you too. One once served on a jury involving a rape, and the judicial concept of 'earnest resistance' was explained to us. At length:(

 

How long ago was that?

[BikerAl]

All I can say is $5000 is a lot less punishment than if it had my daughter the perv touched.

 

Al

[STARFISH*4]

Do you ever wonder why sexual crimes are outrageously under-reported? Because victims don't want to be judged for how they reacted.:(

 

so TRUE...why so many OFFENDERs are FREE to do it again!!! the Victims become the ACCUSED:mad:and even tho she is 18 legally adult she is still just 18 probably right out of HS ...think if it was your daughter:(

[SnootieTootie]

All I can say is $5000 is a lot less punishment than if it had my daughter the perv touched.

 

Al

 

 

Ahh Al, you're my kind of a Daddy :)

[scchasgal]

Creep, probably not his first time either.

[SnootieTootie]

I wonder if he is "free" as far as being labeled a sexual predator in the US?

 

Having been convicted in Bermuda, would his record be clean in the U.S., free to not register as an offender, and free to do this again?

[alwalaska]

WOW!! It can happen anywhere...but is also why I am telling my teenage kids to stick together and to have a "curfew" on our trip soon.

 

If I am understanding the article correctly, it said their "families" decided to dine together. That would lead me to believe her family was there at dinner with her. It is really sad that someone didn't notice from her facial expressions that she was uncomfortable.

 

It is time to talk to my kids again about not being afraid to speak up for themselves if they are uncomfortable.

[TOPNET]

I was on that cruise last week. I think I may have seen that fellow being removed from the ship by the police. It was around 1:00 PM ....I saw a gentleman being escorted off the ship by two policemen and what I assume was a ships security officer. The man being escorted off was kinda of a short fellow wearing a khaki baseball hat. The funny thing was he was not in handcuffs.

Not sure if this is related or not, but a while later while my family and I were heading out to our excursion, I saw a women and two kids being followed by some ships' personnel carrying luggage. They jumped in a cab and drove off.

I never saw any of those folks the rest of the cruise.

[Dr. Jack Daniels]

This is where blaming the victim starts. I don't care how old a victim is, she is still a victim. While we may wish she could have stopped it immediately, there is nothing to be gained by judging her reaction. It is all about HIS behavior.

 

 

Amen!

[DMH15]

What does being a legal adult have to do with someone being violated? Think of what she experienced! Emotions ranging from disbelief to anger to disgust. I am sure that incident changed that family's vacation dynamic. Kudos to NCL and Bermuda for quick and deliberate resolution.

[fin]

How long ago was that?

 

I'm thinking probably two decades or more.

 

It was an interesting case of two young rich kids who were former lovers.

 

She charged him with kidnapping and rape, but remained alone in a car with the engine running (in a populated area) while he went into a store to get beer.

 

The jury did not regard that behavior as earnest resistance and convicted on a much lesser charge.