NCL DAWN sexual assult on 6/28...

[OrdieJ]

Oh my.

 

Is anyone else surprised at the amount of details provided by Bermuda newspapers?

 

Very explicit reporting.

 

ETA, wait a minute, this happened on June 23, so he must have been detained in Bermuda till the 28th, therefore, he would not made it back on the ship for the sailing?

 

I dont think the report was very explicit.

 

and

 

So all he had to do was pay $5,000? I bet the victim didnt see any of that money. Very sad indeed

[Mooder]

I have not gone back and looked a what I originally said, but it was along the lines of what would happen to the guy, if it was my daughter. In hind sight, I fear you are correct, I would have been the one arrested, and the perv would have walked.

 

If by any chance the victim is reading this thread, please know you did the right thing in that circumstance. Don't let anything said here put any doubt in your mind.

 

Al

 

Bravo!!!

[Dr. Jack Daniels]

I have not gone back and looked a what I originally said, but it was along the lines of what would happen to the guy, if it was my daughter. In hind sight, I fear you are correct, I would have been the one arrested, and the perv would have walked.

 

 

Al

 

Al - You are the same kind of Dad as me.

 

A few years ago on the Carnival Legend there was a young man that was being over the top in the comments with my then 16 year old daughter. He kept asking her to come back to his cabin so he could show her some of the CDs he brought with him. Well my daughter knows that this is a no-no and pointed him out to me on the Lido Deck because she felt uncomfortable.

 

I found the young man later on the Lido deck and approached him. I told him he had 2 choices:

 

A. Stay away from my daughter for the remainder of the cruise.

 

or

 

B. Be prepared to swim back to Tampa.

 

Not surprisingly he chose option A.:cool:

[sjn911]

I dont think the report was very explicit.

 

and

 

So all he had to do was pay $5,000? I bet the victim didnt see any of that money. Very sad indeed

 

I had these thoughts as well. But Rome was not built in a day..and it was calling a spade a sade..or at least the very beginning of it...publically.

 

When date rape and all really started to be talked about..along with aids dawning on the scene..around late 70's and early '80s..sort of the end of one phase of the "sexual revolution"; college campuses were experiencing really starting to deal with the issue. The lead security guard at one of the early "awareness and problem solving" meetings on mine did not believe rape happened in any form. He raised his hand and said.."It's hard enough to acheive if you want to..I do not believe this happens." He meant it...silent shock prevailed..and it was a real beginning towards making things better on my little campus.

[sjn911]

PS Ordie J..Beyond cool pictures and Legend Review I just saw..made my day..Thank you for your service!!!

[Mooder]

I dont think the report was very explicit.

 

I agree with Snootie. I was very surprised to be reading the specific details of what the man did with his foot, etc. Typically, news reports here, especially so soon after the incident, would just say "sexual assault" or even simply "assault" and we would be left to wonder about the nature of the assault. Often, we only learn details when there is a trial.

[sparks1093]

I agree with Snootie. I was very surprised to be reading the specific details of what the man did with his foot, etc. Typically, news reports here, especially so soon after the incident, would just say "sexual assault" or even simply "assault" and we would be left to wonder about the nature of the assault. Often, we only learn details when there is a trial.

 

He was fined by a judge so he had at least a bench trial. I'm surprised by how fast the Bermudian authorities acted.

[done it]

I sure hope my 18 yr old daughter has been brought up to stand up for herself and not be a "victim" of a fool such as this. Yep, he is the one at fault here but at 18 and sitting right where help was a punch in the face away....wow.

[Mooder]

He was fined by a judge so he had at least a bench trial. I'm surprised by how fast the Bermudian authorities acted.

 

Yes, that amazed me as well.

[Mooder]

I sure hope my 18 yr old daughter has been brought up to stand up for herself and not be a "victim" of a fool such as this. Yep, he is the one at fault here but at 18 and sitting right where help was a punch in the face away....wow.

 

Why do you say she just sat there? She DID stand up for herself. This thread continues to amaze me!

[sjn911]

Why do you say she just sat there? She DID stand up for herself. This thread continues to amaze me!

 

It is not amazing to me...lots of daughters get the mixed messages evident here; how often is this issue really talked about and along with all the shame involved...but folks like you and this discussion..where it is going...what a relief...puts the truth right out there..thanks for all your comments and all of the reality I see evidenced by those in accord here..the victim has a darn tough call..as evidenced..what is a win?:)

[flowerchild]

Why do you say she just sat there? She DID stand up for herself. This thread continues to amaze me!

 

Deep sigh. I give up. Some people, right?

[done it]

Don't give up!!! Fight Back!!!! My daughter would have either told me right then and there and very well might have broken his foot off at the ankle....and I assure you, I would have beat him to a pulp for his actions. Again, this scum bag is the one who was wrong. I would just like to think people could be more proactive and FIGHT when horrible things like this occur.

[Mooder]

Don't give up!!! Fight Back!!!! My daughter would have either told me right then and there and very well might have broken his foot off at the ankle....and I assure you, I would have beat him to a pulp for his actions. Again, this scum bag is the one who was wrong. I would just like to think people could be more proactive and FIGHT when horrible things like this occur.

 

Didn't I see you railing against the non-classy cruisers on another thread? :rolleyes:

 

Even if I approved of your reaction, there is always more than one appropriate reaction. Just because hers was different from what you think your daughter's (and then yours) would be, you say she did nothing?!? :confused:

 

See Biker Al's posts.

[done it]

Didn't I see you railing against the non-classy cruisers on another thread? :rolleyes:

 

Even if I approved of your reaction, there is always more than one appropriate reaction. Just because hers was different from what you think your daughter's (and then yours) would be, you say she did nothing?!? :confused:

 

See Biker Al's posts.

yes, you may have. I only want to be around folks similar to us. She should have reacted IMMEDIATELY and AGRESSIVELY to the advances of the scum....a "look" is not AGRESSIVE. Don't get all bent, acting as if I blaime HER for this because I don't! Preperation for the unexpected can often be the differece in being a Victim or a Victor.

[CruiseNurseBabe82]

yes, you may have. I only want to be around folks similar to us. She should have reacted IMMEDIATELY and AGRESSIVELY to the advances of the scum....a "look" is not AGRESSIVE. Don't get all bent, acting as if I blaime HER for this because I don't! Preperation for the unexpected can often be the differece in being a Victim or a Victor.

 

And she may have also got a knife in her abdomen. :rolleyes: Never know how the perp will react.

[Mooder]

yes, you may have. I only want to be around folks similar to us. She should have reacted IMMEDIATELY and AGRESSIVELY to the advances of the scum....a "look" is not AGRESSIVE. Don't get all bent, acting as if I blaime HER for this because I don't! Preperation for the unexpected can often be the differece in being a Victim or a Victor.

 

Really classy! :rolleyes:

[mkad1109]

Why do you say she just sat there? She DID stand up for herself. This thread continues to amaze me!

Just read the entire thread and it amazes and SADDENS me.... I really have thought about my daughters (16 and 14) and what they would have done. I would LOVE to say I have taught them to be assertive, I have tried, but at the same time I have taught them respect for adults. This coupled with how easily teenage girls are EMBARASSED makes me feel as though my own daughters would have been as confused, unsure and uncomfortable as the victim. They too would know that both their father and I (and older brother for that matter) would have created quite the scene.

 

I believe that those of the "she should have stopped it immediately" don't currently have teenagers. You may have forgotten how important not being embarassed is to them. Sounds like the young lady was simply shell shocked, but in the end felt comfortable enough to report it immediately.

 

This is definitely our dinner time conversation tonight....

[CruiseNurseBabe82]

Just read the entire thread and it amazes and SADDENS me.... I really have thought about my daughters (16 and 14) and what they would have done. I would LOVE to say I have taught them to be assertive, I have tried, but at the same time I have taught them respect for adults. This coupled with how easily teenage girls are EMBARASSED makes me feel as though my own daughters would have been as confused, unsure and uncomfortable as the victim. They too would know that both their father and I (and older brother for that matter) would have created quite the scene.

 

I believe that those of the "she should have stopped it immediately" don't currently have teenagers. You may have forgotten how important not being embarassed is to them. Sounds like the young lady was simply shell shocked, but in the end felt comfortable enough to report it immediately.

 

This is definitely our dinner time conversation tonight....

 

I agree, definitely disappointing to see people are flaming a victim. I am not that much older than this young woman and I can't even say how I would have reacted if I were put in that situation. One never knows the mental status of the perp and what he might have done had she acted "aggressively".

[Mooder]

Just read the entire thread and it amazes and SADDENS me.... I really have thought about my daughters (16 and 14) and what they would have done. I would LOVE to say I have taught them to be assertive, I have tried, but at the same time I have taught them respect for adults. This coupled with how easily teenage girls are EMBARASSED makes me feel as though my own daughters would have been as confused, unsure and uncomfortable as the victim. They too would know that both their father and I (and older brother for that matter) would have created quite the scene.

 

I believe that those of the "she should have stopped it immediately" don't currently have teenagers. You may have forgotten how important not being embarassed is to them. Sounds like the young lady was simply shell shocked, but in the end felt comfortable enough to report it immediately.

 

This is definitely our dinner time conversation tonight....

 

And if the scenarios the others describe had occurred, the man most like would not have been arrested. If she had stopped him as soon as his foot hit her leg - how would or could they arrest him?!??! But there's a good chance a member of the young woman's family could have been arrested for fighting! How is that justice?!?

 

I wish people would think about the goals and results of the actions they propose instead of just what their emotions tell them to do. The goal is to stop the guy and bring him to justice. That's what this young woman did!

[iheartbda]

I agree with Snootie. I was very surprised to be reading the specific details of what the man did with his foot, etc. Typically, news reports here, especially so soon after the incident, would just say "sexual assault" or even simply "assault" and we would be left to wonder about the nature of the assault. Often, we only learn details when there is a trial.

Believe me......those details with the foot were nothing compared to what I've seen reported in the Royal Gazette. Other appendages have been mentioned.:p

 

Deep sigh. I give up. Some people, right?

I want to type my response in big red capital letters but that is the internet equivalent of shouting. In this case I really do want to shout but will refrain.

 

How many more people are going to come along and post what THEY think the young lady SHOULD have done? How many posts are needed from professionals and victims alike to make these people realize that what they think the correct response to be is not the case for everyone? What will make them understand that it's so easy for them to just rattle off what seems to them to be a no brainer, but in actual fact, for some it is not and not always possible?

 

Yes, flowerchild....deep, DEEP sigh.

[sjn911]

I think teaching empowerment and "fight" is good. It comes in different forms however; and is needed in a million different ways. I distinctly remember a sexual assault prevention/protection movie in high school that stressed different ways to protect oneself and made a point on one option for one type of situation...going along with it until a safe out was discovered...the detach from the situation and think method.

 

They then made a joke about the permanent mark on the breast of the woman/girl that operated that way and survived a part of the attack and the worst case ramifications.

This survivor could have done just that kind of thing in her own way given whatever the situation truly entailed..family history on handling and surviving such things included...sjn911.

[sjn911]

Believe me......those details with the foot were nothing compared to what I've seen reported in the Royal Gazette. Other appendages have been mentioned.:p

 

 

I want to type my response in big red capital letters but that is the internet equivalent of shouting. In this case I really do want to shout but will refrain.

 

How many more people are going to come along and post what THEY think the young lady SHOULD have done? How many posts are needed from professionals and victims alike to make these people realize that what they think the correct response to be is not the case for everyone? What will make them understand that it's so easy for them to just rattle off what seems to them to be a no brainer, but in actual fact, for some it is not and not always possible?

 

Yes, flowerchild....deep, DEEP sigh.

 

Yes..breathing deeply, counting to 10 myself.

[swedish weave]

How many of you think she or her family should pursue this and report it to the US police so the offender can be blessed with a record of his actions in the USA?

[mkad1109]

How many of you think she or her family should pursue this and report it to the US police so the offender can be blessed with a record of his actions in the USA?

Interesting you should say that...given that the offender was from NY (as am I) I googled him to see what part of NY he was from. No one found. Similar name (last letter different and age one year younger) found in Queens..... who is this guy or did they have their facts wrong?