Formal or Informal

[Lsimon]

... I think a good compromise would be to make one of the set dining times as "formal only" and then strictly enforce it. So maybe the first seating could be informal ......

 

This is a great idea as long as they make the first seating informal and don't mess with MY second seating.

Oh...lets make sure those poorly dressed folks just retire to their cabins after dinner too so they don't ruin my ambiance. And don't let them cut through the martini bar when we're all dressed up enjoying our before dinner drinks please.:rolleyes:

[Waterlily777]

But what you and other posters fail to acknowledge is that "the way it is" is apparently different from "the way it was", if comments posted by some recent Celebrity cruisers are to be believed. Increasing numbers of people are adopting more relaxed dress in the dining room and whether or not they are Celebrity "newbies" (as some have suggested) is immaterial. For the most part, the cruise line appears to be turning a blind eye. If and when the more casual dressers outnumber the formal wear crusaders there will most certainly be a change in the official dress code, despite the best efforts of the aficionados of "the good old days".

 

From his own post on another CC cruise line forum, here we have the philosophy that is driving nusail's agenda:

 

Here it is in a nutshell - the crux of the matter summed up in a couple of sentences:

 

Quote: Originally Posted by travellovers2

I dont think it's fair that they have it as a policy and some people follow it and others dont..... and get away with it. Not following a policy shows lack of respect for authority ..

 

To reiterate what someone else said many, many, many posts ago on this thread, it's not that some people are upset about the particular items of clothing worn by some some passengers in the MDR, it's the fact that they are daring to "flaunt authority". And as I commented in another thread, this interminable debate boils down to a difference between people with a "rule bound" perspective and others who are less conforming. Rule conscious cruisers are offended when others don't follow suggested guidelines and aren't required to conform.

 

The conflict between the "rule-bound vs independent-minded" way of viewing the world plays out in all aspects of society - it always has and always will. It's just a little more conspicuous and provocative in cruise ship dining rooms.

 

Clearly, nusail thinks that he is "independent-minded", while those of us that understand what it means to respect a dress code request are lemmings. There is absolutely nothing further I can say about this kind of approach to life except that I am grateful that my children have grown up to understand how to behave in polite society.

 

 

:)

__________________

[Lois R]

The dress code in the specialty restaurants is the same as the main dining room on formal and/or casual nights.

 

Hi Texed,:) yes, you are correct:D:D...formal nights in the

specialty restaurants are formal;)..just like the main dining room.

And smart casual nights in the main dining room are that way in the

Specialty Restaurants too.

[Project_gal]

I can't believe that formal nights are the ONLY reason people choose this line which is what some posters would have you believe.

 

Believe me - formal nights are a very important [but not the only] reason for us choosing Celebrity. One of the other reasons is a smart dress code for the "informal" nights which was [in full unless they have changed in since the last time I checked] "smart casual AND ABOVE". A third reason is the ambience - to which the dress code contributes. These are all part of the package.

 

These may not be the reasons why other people make their choices but they are some of ours. If the itinerary for a cruise is not as advertised, people feel they have a right to complain. Why should it be different for the dress code?

 

Sue

[boogs]

I think we will see less people wanting the tux and ball gown and be happy with just a nice sport coat and tie and dressy pant suit.

 

Unfortunately, based on the comments of some of the posters to these threads, even that is way too much of a bother for some.

[kymbakitty]

We took Carnival because it was a short cruise and we thought why not? how bad can it be in 4 days. It wasnt the way people dressed, but how the majority behaved that really turned us off to Carnival. We sailed Princess and people were very well dressed. We dont do the tux and long dress affair,but we do dress as you should to go to a nice restaurant, which is what any MDR is on any cruise. So just because someone is on vacation, which we all are, is no reason to break the dress code.

 

I think your experience may be the same on just about any cruiseline if you take 3 night/4 day cruise.

 

This is the very reason we tend to take 14+ day cruises....on every cruiseline we take. You are always going to find a different crowd of people on the 3 night cruises--pretty much the party gang. Not that there is anything wrong with that...but those same people probably wouldn't be attracted to a 14 night cruise.

 

I won a 3 night cruise on RCCL one year. My DH wouldn't even go (it was FREE!!!). It's just not his cup of tea. I gave it away.

 

:)

[hat776]

I don't think the cruise lines are stupid - if they felt that the majority of their passengers didn't want the Formal Nights they would have been scrapped ages ago. The point is that many, many people enjoy and even look forward to them.

Even on MSC and Costa, which are definitely not up to Celebrity's standard, have Formal nights. Practically all men wore jackets. There were just a very few tables where the men wore long sleeved shirts and ties.

I very much doubt if someone in a t=shirt/jeans or Hawaiin shirt would have been allowed in.

[travellovers2]

I applaud all of you that want things to remain the same and do not accept change when it alters a good tradition. Some things in life can be left the way they are. Not everything has to be changed to accomodate those that always want to swim against the current. We are tired of seeing rules broken on RCI and staff looking the other way. Some of us do enjoy our cruising with some formality in place. We are also looking away from RCI now that Dreamworks is coming aboard. We prefer to cruise with less kids aboard. Last few cruises we had to deal with teenagers sitting in the elevators going up and down for fun. So if Celebrity is all about formality, then we may have found our new home.

 

Question: (Celebrity newbie here and looking much forward to it) are all nights at the MDR formal or are you just talking about "formal nights" when the use of a tux and evening gown is required? Is a suit and tie acceptable for men on formal nights? (need to tell hubby he needs to rent a tux otherwise).

 

What about the other nights that are not "formal nights"? suit and tie and a nice pantsuit for ladies?

[true45]

There is usually 1-2 (2 on Eclipse) formal nights per 7 day sailing. I found on Solstice (Eclipse sister ship) that some men wore tuxes but lots wore dark suits & ties - women more in cocktail dresses rather than long gowns although some did wear them. The other nights were mostly smart casual -- most men did not wear jackets. My husband wore the silk type dress shirts that you wear out of dress slacks. Very comfortable.

 

On formal nights, I didn't notice any people who were not following the codes suggested -- or maybe I just wasn't looking for them. I admit to sometimes on formal nights after dinner going back to the cabin & changing into something more suitable for walking the deck etc. But lots of people look forward to the elegant evening -- I don't know why people who don't like it are so resentful that there is any suggestion of dress code.

[Sarapdot]

I personally enjoy dressing up for dinner as I don't get that opportunity in my "real" life. I say leave it the way it is and inforce it. Vacation is a time for me to do things I don't normally get to do and dressing up for a fine dinner is included in that.

Or...make the anytime dining casual and the early/late seating remain formal.

[Texed]

Hi Texed,:) .

 

Hi Lois. :)

[librarylady19]

I would not like to see any further erosion of the dress code. Obviously there are exceptions made and people who flaunt the dress code on each ship. However, if the rules are changed at the corporate level to appease those who can't bother to dress up, the whole atmosphere of the cruise experience will change.

From what I have read on this board, the mainstream cruiselines seem to be becoming more and more standardized - let's leave Celebrity the way it is. There are many other lines for those who want to "let it all hang out."

[iancal]

We are moving away from it. Done enough of it in my business life. I associate it with business and work, not pleasure or vacations. We are light packers so this works for us. We will not show up in the MDR on formal nights but we will certainly not stay in our cabin either. It will be business casual togs as we tour the ship and vistit the casino, theatre, etc.

[Ma Bell]

I applaud all of you that want things to remain the same and do not accept change when it alters a good tradition. Some things in life can be left the way they are. Not everything has to be changed to accomodate those that always want to swim against the current. We are tired of seeing rules broken on RCI and staff looking the other way. Some of us do enjoy our cruising with some formality in place. We are also looking away from RCI now that Dreamworks is coming aboard. We prefer to cruise with less kids aboard. Last few cruises we had to deal with teenagers sitting in the elevators going up and down for fun. So if Celebrity is all about formality, then we may have found our new home.

 

Question: (Celebrity newbie here and looking much forward to it) are all nights at the MDR formal or are you just talking about "formal nights" when the use of a tux and evening gown is required? Is a suit and tie acceptable for men on formal nights? (need to tell hubby he needs to rent a tux otherwise).

 

What about the other nights that are not "formal nights"? suit and tie and a nice pantsuit for ladies?

 

 

Celebrity has never had a tux and ballgown only formalwear policy. A suit and tie or dinner jacket, slacks and tie have always been options for men and ladies can wear anything from a ballgown to a dressy pants outfit. This is only on formal nights and the rest of the time the dresscode is smart casual. Sounds perfectly reasonable, doesn't it?

 

Apparently we have the casual set who would love to wear jeans and t-shirts and shorts to dinner in a lovely dining room.

 

The real point is that Celebrity does have a dresscode and most people do comply.

 

I hate these dresscode threads as much as anyone, but I will continue to speak up in defense of them because I think it's an important part of what keeps Celebrity a bit above some of the others. I think it's fairly obvious to most people that there is a certain mentality that goes with being able to appreciate a lovely evening in beautiful surroundings. It seems to help set a level of behavior that reflects in many other areas of a cruise.

 

I think we also see examples everyday of what kind of levels are achieved when "everything" is governed by having a so called "independent spirit". I would say that today, the people who know how to appreciate all different kinds of experiences, including a formal experience, are a lot more independent minded than those who can only enjoy themselves when wearing the jeans, t-shirt and sneakers uniform of today.

 

Personally, I find it refreshing to be around people who can have a great time while still maintaining a sense of respect for others. I hope the day never comes when it's always the "all about me" attitude.

[buggins0402]

Perhaps the issue is that Celebrity has gotten too large for it's old target market? It then has a viscious circle to maintain profitability and fill ships - either attract more people outside it's old market by tweaking style (evidenced by adding anytime dining) or cut price (attracting the unwashed masses).

 

Perhaps RCCL should spin off some of the Celebrity and RCCL ships to a new target customer with a new brand name (a resort casual mass-market premium just below luxe-lite). Frankly, I can't think of one company addressing that market. Guess it would be like an Azamara or Orient, but priced at a slightly lower price point.

[Ma Bell]

They have tried that with Azamara and it's not working too well. They have provided options for dining, that they didn't have before, for those who don't care to dress and the truth is things are working well as they are.

 

Almost everyone complies with the dress code for the dining room or goes to an alternate on formal night. The Solstice Class ships all have an expanded buffet and Bistro on Five which is a $5 charge. They also have RCCL for people who want a casual cruise and have many casual venues on their ships.

 

Sometimes we don't feel like dressing up either, but if we're feeling that lazy, the buffet, Bistro or in cabin dining work perfectly.

 

There are so many choices for people who want a completely casual cruise, let's leave at least one for those who enjoy a "little bit" more formal atmosphere.

[jackdiamond]

Ma Bell,

I basically agree with all of your comments; and, I would like to advise those who post but are not experienced Celebrity cruisers that the M and S class have not had the informal dress code for sometime. Simply stated, for males a sport coat with tie and slacks is no longer required. By the same token that mode of dress is not appropriate for formal nights.

[buggins0402]

They have tried that with Azamara and it's not working too well. They have provided options for dining, that they didn't have before, for those who don't care to dress and the truth is things are working well as they are.

 

Almost everyone complies with the dress code for the dining room or goes to an alternate on formal night. The Solstice Class ships all have an expanded buffet and Bistro on Five which is a $5 charge. They also have RCCL for people who want a casual cruise and have many casual venues on their ships.

 

Sometimes we don't feel like dressing up either, but if we're feeling that lazy, the buffet, Bistro or in cabin dining work perfectly.

 

There are so many choices for people who want a completely casual cruise, let's leave at least one for those who enjoy a "little bit" more formal atmosphere.

 

Just observing that much new capacity to the premium-mass market has or will be added last year, this year and next between HAL and Celebrity. Either you must expand your target market, advertise more for your current customer base or right size capacity to keep delivering the "pure" product to your loyal customer base (which might not have grown with the capacity). Otherwise you lose your original market concept as you eventually try to be all things to all people to stay profitable.

 

Really seems there must be some others out there that would like to see either Carnival or RCCL corporations start a small niche line that has a country club casual atmosphere (no hairy chest pool games!), good service (no butlers required), nice dining, but at a price point similar to the MM - premiums.

 

No way did I ever say that the Celebrity market concept shouldn't exist - but to stay pure it has to be the right size for it's market.

[Waterlily777]

Just observing that much new capacity to the premium-mass market has or will be added last year, this year and next between HAL and Celebrity. Either you must expand your target market, advertise more for your current customer base or right size capacity to keep delivering the "pure" product to your loyal customer base (which might not have grown with the capacity). Otherwise you lose your original market concept as you eventually try to be all things to all people to stay profitable.

 

Really seems there must be some others out there that would like to see either Carnival or RCCL corporations start a small niche line that has a country club casual atmosphere (no hairy chest pool games!), good service (no butlers required), nice dining, but at a price point similar to the MM - premiums.

 

No way did I ever say that the Celebrity market concept shouldn't exist - but to stay pure it has to be the right size for it's market.

 

I think that's what Azamara was, initially, positioned in between Celebrity and Oceania. But since Azamara has been rebranded, they've raised the prices and seem to be going after Oceania's market. I don't think that's working too well for Azamara, as Oceania seems to do it better.

[Jerry and Shelly]

I agree.

 

I don't understand why so many people who love to wear formal attire get upset with those who don't. Every cruiseline seems to have these same issues.

 

The cruiselines will do what they have to do to make a profit. If the next generation of customers want casual attire, that's what they will offer. It's always about the bottom line.

 

And if everyone wanted every night to be formal, then there would be an all-formal cruise. Economics will determine how cruises evolve. Just ideas here - people aren't out to change Celebrity. Celebrity is the only one who will change Celebrity. And BTW, Carnival gets bashed quite a lot here, but even Carnival has two formal nights per 7 day cruises.

 

I said that people are passionate about dress codes. Guess I'm right.

[Leafpeeper]

The dress code in the specialty restaurants is the same as the main dining room on formal and/or casual nights.

 

You are correct about suggested attire, but what I stated is that the specialty restaurants generally do not enforce the formal attire dress code on formal night.

 

As people have mentioned, there was a time when cruiseships required formal attire every evening. Since then, lots of things on cruiseships have changed.

 

I purchased my Celebrity cruise because the price was so incredible--less than any other cruiseline. I would have preferred the newer Princess ship but could not resist the great price for a great itinerary on the Celebrity ship. I am willing to settle for an older ship and fewer amenities on my Celebrity cruise, but least I will have Captains Elite status. There are only 2 pools on the Celebrity ship compared to 5 on the Princess. I also enjoy the jumbo outdoor movie screen on Princess--DH loves it for football Sunday and Monday games. We'll save Princess for another cruise.

 

Celebrity can't be offering bargains and expecting only people with champagne taste to sail. If this cruiseline wants to fill cabins, they will have to compromise on things that appeal to a wide range of travelers. Passengers who do not wear formal attire should have at least one restaurant on a ship to dine--other than a buffet. I do not pay for a cruise to wait on myself and eat food that other passengers have touched. Keep the MDR for formal wear and leave the specialty restaurant for everybody else. We have dressed formally on many cruises, but just don't like the lack of choice when we are just not in the mood to dress up after an exhausting day of touring at a port.

[nusail]

...

I hate these dresscode threads as much as anyone, but I will continue to speak up in defense of them because I think it's an important part of what keeps Celebrity a bit above some of the others. ...

 

Ah ... so it's not REALLY about people's inappropriate dining attire at all! It's about maintaining the illusion of the "elite" status of Celebrity cruisers and keeping out the riffraff. We suspected as much all along.

[jackdiamond]

Ah ... so it's not REALLY about people's inappropriate dining attire at all! It's about maintaining the illusion of the "elite" status of Celebrity cruisers and keeping out the riffraff. We suspected as much all along.

And, you have never cruised Celebrity; and, you probably never will.

[buggins0402]

I think that's what Azamara was, initially, positioned in between Celebrity and Oceania. But since Azamara has been rebranded, they've raised the prices and seem to be going after Oceania's market. I don't think that's working too well for Azamara, as Oceania seems to do it better.

 

Oceania - that's it - couldn't remember the line's name in a previous post - Thanks! Yes, I've noticed better deals on Azamara cruises than Oceania, though both are supposed to be kind of equal luxe-lites. Really what seems to be missing though is a casual premium line - kind of equal to HAL and Celebrity. Or I guess I'd love an upgraded NCL that doesn't have bingo, noisy cruise directors, and hairy chest contests, and the related clientle who love such things, but has stringed quartets playing in the martini lounge instead (something between the MM NCL and the Lux lite Oceania). It's just my guess why this board get's so embroiled in this formal/informal question so often - because people who want the informal premium product have no choice. Or perhaps, Solticizing the fleet will provide more casual dining options and put an end to these threads.

 

It seems like most of the mass market cruise lines have been "morphing" to where they are much more alike than different -the product is becoming more generic so that they can fill the ship. Oh, and before anyone gets their panties tied up in a knot - by mass market, I mean a cruise line that views it's customer base as primarily middle class/upper middle class and as such spends a great deal of it's marketing dollars on television ads (the mass market).

[nusail]

And, you have never cruised Celebrity; and, you probably never will.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but I booked an upcoming Celebrity cruise several months ago. I can't imagine why anyone would bother to read and post to these threads if that was not the case. It's been very informative to get a sense of the opinions and preferences of others who will be on my cruise. I look forward to a lively time.