Chip & Pin Credit Cards

[marilynfaye]

I just read an article about the European Visa/Mastercards which have an imbedded chip & require a Pin Number rather than the magnetic stripe that most of us are used to. The article said that hotels still accept our cards as will ATM's because they already require a Pin Number, but smaller establishments and automotic ticketing machines sometimes do not.

 

It sounds like Canada has made the switch, but U.S. banks and credit card companies have not because of the cost of switching over.

 

My question to all of you who have recently returned from Europe: Did you have any problem using your credit cards? And, yes, I do know that cash from an ATM is a more economical choice, but sometimes a credit card is more convenient or you don't want to overload your wallet with a currency you may never use again.

 

Thanks,

Marilyn

[legaleaglegreen]

Was in Mediterranean for 3 weeks in May, used credit card in five countries--Italy, Croatia, Greece, France and Spain--without any problems.

[bigdipper]

I just read an article about the European Visa/Mastercards which have an imbedded chip & require a Pin Number rather than the magnetic stripe that most of us are used to. The article said that hotels still accept our cards as will ATM's because they already require a Pin Number, but smaller establishments and automotic ticketing machines sometimes do not.

 

It sounds like Canada has made the switch, but U.S. banks and credit card companies have not because of the cost of switching over.

 

My question to all of you who have recently returned from Europe: Did you have any problem using your credit cards? And, yes, I do know that cash from an ATM is a more economical choice, but sometimes a credit card is more convenient or you don't want to overload your wallet with a currency you may never use again.

 

Thanks,

Marilyn

 

Just returned from UK, Netherlands, countries on the Baltic, Denmark and Norway. No problems at ATMs with my bank debit card, nor anywhere using Capital 1 credit card.

Ralph

[jpalbny]

Have been to Europe a bunch in the past year. No problems using magnetic striped CCs in Italy, Spain, GB, and probably a bunch of other countries that I can't remember. Note - they do like MC/Visa though, and AMEX is less widely accepted.

 

I've never used my cc in an ATM for cash abroad. My ATM card works well wherever I've tried it, and that includes more far-flung countries like Ukraine and Turkey (call your bank first).

 

Believe it or not, the ONLY place we ran into any trouble with a cc was trying to buy gas to fill up our rental car in Iceland! We had no problem in Sept 2008, but in August 2009 2 stations in Reykjavik refused to even look at my cc because it doesn't have a PIN. I could understand if it was pay at the pump, but they would not accept the cc for payment in person, with ID. I finally had the inspiration to use my Visa check-card (ATM card) because that has a PIN, and it worked. Of course, that didn't help me read Icelandic at the gas pump, but that's a different story...:p

[SWY123]

I am not sure if the technology that Exonn Mobilr uses for their pay at the pump wand that you can tie into any credit card is the same, but I just received a new Chase card with the same technology in it. I have seen these at CVS and a few other places locally in the Boston area. Does anyone know if this I the same as the European system?

[harryh]

We have only ever had a problem once. Earlier this year we had lunch at a lovely outdoor restaurant in Capri. We fully intended paying cash but didn't have quite enough euros so we tried to use a Mastercard - magnetic strip & sign type. Our waiter produced a hand held credit card machine which required a Pin and couldn't process the transaction without one.

 

Fortunately for us we recognised some fellow cruisers from the ship who were also dining there and kindly lent us some euros. And yes we did pay them back!

[Palmetto Lady]

A year or two ago we had heard of people needing a Pin to use a credit card in Europe so we asked our card issuers to give us Pins. We carry them with us in our waist wallet , but we have never had to use them.

[marilynfaye]

A year or two ago we had heard of people needing a Pin to use a credit card in Europe so we asked our card issuers to give us Pins. We carry them with us in our waist wallet , but we have never had to use them.

 

Palmetto Lady: Is the card itself any different - i.e. does it still have the magnetic stripe? I imagine the credit card companies would be glad to have you select a Pin number so you can "charge" a cash advance at an ATM machine. I have the impression that the European cards have a different technology.

[comcox]

I just read an article about the European Visa/Mastercards which have an imbedded chip & require a Pin Number rather than the magnetic stripe that most of us are used to. The article said that hotels still accept our cards as will ATM's because they already require a Pin Number, but smaller establishments and automotic ticketing machines sometimes do not.

 

It sounds like Canada has made the switch, but U.S. banks and credit card companies have not because of the cost of switching over.

 

My question to all of you who have recently returned from Europe: Did you have any problem using your credit cards? And, yes, I do know that cash from an ATM is a more economical choice, but sometimes a credit card is more convenient or you don't want to overload your wallet with a currency you may never use again.

 

Thanks,

Marilyn

 

We've been to Europe several times since the chip-n-pin was introduced and it really varies as to how merchants will respond. Greatest problem we ran into was at train stations and metro stations where tickets are sold mostly from machines which will not take the U.S. cards. Smaller stores and grocery stores often will not either. In some cases you can talk a merchant into processing the car "by hand" but it's safer just have to cash with you.

[caribbeansun]

I've been using chip cc in Canada for probably 3+ years. The card is different only in that it has a chip literally embedded in it. Not all vendors have the required technology for such a card - they have manual slide imprinters, magnetic swipe readers and chip slots where the card is inserted into the end of a swipe hand terminal.

 

In short the chip cc will work in any of the above mentioned formats.

 

In Canada at least most chip hand terminals will work with swipe cards as the terminal has the necessary swipe slot and insert slot.

 

I have read a number of posts related to ticket terminals in Europe requiring a PIN presumably as a means to defeat cc fraud for use with either a debit card or cc both of which would require a PIN.

 

If you don't have a chipped/PIN cc then use your debit card which has a PIN and you should be fine - of course if you must have a chipped debit card then all bets are off (Canada has implemented those as well BTW and I have a couple).

 

 

Palmetto Lady: Is the card itself any different - i.e. does it still have the magnetic stripe? I imagine the credit card companies would be glad to have you select a Pin number so you can "charge" a cash advance at an ATM machine. I have the impression that the European cards have a different technology.

[no fuss travel]

I just got my first chip card in Canada and the card is different than what I previously had. It has a chip inserted in it and I now have to remember a pin number which I never had to do before. My old card was issued just before they started issuing pin cards.

[Paulchili]

They got things right in Europe with those chip cards - I wish we would do the same here.

It would cut down or eliminate the black market for stealing and copying CCs. A stolen CC without your PIN is useless to them.

When is the last time somebody misused your ATM card (with a PIN)? But it happens a lot with CCs without the chip (PIN). The N.A. CC companies will take their losses with stolen cards (and pass the cost on to you) as long as they can easily get your business online and over the phone (easier with the old cards than the PIN cards). I would never give out my PIN over the phone or online to anyone.

Sorry for the rant - JMO.

[brian_uk]

In most European Restaurants they bring the credit card machine to the table so that you can enter your pin number without handing it over to be taken away and swiped.

 

Theoretically this makes you far more secure but there are unscrupulous Merchants who can copy your number by adding an extra "something" and then clone the card.

 

No need to worry as the CC company always make good.

 

Brian

[Paulchili]

Theoretically this makes you far more secure but there are unscrupulous Merchants who can copy your number by adding an extra "something" and then clone the card.

 

Brian

 

I disagree.

The PIN is not encoded in your card as you can change it anytime you want to and as many times you want to.

The PIN is encoded in your bank account.

Is it 100% theft proof? No, but much, much better than our simple magnetic stripe cards (which I have had stolen/copied a number of times). Never my ATM card (because it is useless without the PIN).

Even if they "clone" your card with your PIN, all you have to do is change the PIN (rather than wait for a new credit card to be sent to you in India - or wherever else you are at the time).

It just makes for a much safer CC overall, though the crooks try to be one step ahead of the law all the time.

[Palmetto Lady]

Marilynfaye

It is the same credit card. It had a pin number at the time is was issued. I just never needed it so did not keep the info. None of the cards issued by US banks have "chips". According to another thread, they do not intend to adopt that technology. So far it hasn't been a problem for us - knock on wood!

 

Just be careful with your magnetic stripes that they do not become demagnitized. I have a purse with a magnetic closure and it demagnitized my cruise card.

[CintiPam]

I was following this issue closely when I was an in-house attorney for a bank more than 10 years ago now, and the US banks still are resisting!

 

However, we still have not had any credit card issues in Europe, although we have read numerous warnings as well these past five years. Automatic machines at railway stations and machines at unattended parking lots are the two places I have read visitors may encounter difficulties using their US credit cards.

[Paulchili]

I was following this issue closely when I was an in-house attorney for a bank more than 10 years ago now, and the US banks still are resisting!

 

.

 

I believe the reasons I posted above are some of the reasons why they are resisting the change.

They are certainly protecting their CASH however - they wouldn't even dream of giving you access to their (actually your) money without a PIN.

That tells me something right there.

[CintiPam]

Wow, Paulchili, this issue really hits your hot button!

[Paulchili]

Wow, Paulchili, this issue really hits your hot button!

 

Yes, it does (does it show;)).

I have been a victim more than once (copied CCs, stolen CCs) and while I was not held responsible for the charges, I resented the criminals benefiting from this. One card continued to be charged for months despite being reported as stolen!!!

IF these cards had PINs they would have been useless to the criminals.

What upsets me most, is that we DO have the technology - every drug store, supermarket, even car wash has a PIN machines for using debit cards (why shouldn't Macy's and all restaurants, etc have them as well for the CCs)?

Maybe, just maybe, if the CC didn't have such high losses from this type of crime, they just might pass the savings on to us (but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen :))

[CintiPam]

Yes, it does (does it show;)).

I have been a victim more than once (copied CCs, stolen CCs) and while I was not held responsible for the charges, I resented the criminals benefiting from this. One card continued to be charged for months despite being reported as stolen!!!

IF these cards had PINs they would have been useless to the criminals.

What upsets me most, is that we DO have the technology - every drug store, supermarket, even car wash has a PIN machines for using debit cards (why shouldn't Macy's and all restaurants, etc have them as well for the CCs)?

Maybe, just maybe, if the CC didn't have such high losses from this type of crime, they just might pass the savings on to us (but I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen :))

 

Well, I must say that in all my years of corporate legal practice, I found that banks were the most hide-bound of all the institutions with which I ever dealt. Corporate seals and other dark ages requirements.

[brian_uk]

Sorry Paulchlli

 

But although you may technically be right, the thieves of this world can copy whatever info you put into the machine INCLUDING your pin.

 

Since we ONLY get to know there has been a cloning AFTER returning from a trip I do not see what your point is.

 

Brian

[brian_uk]

Sorry Paulchlli

 

But although you may technically be right, the thieves of this world can copy whatever info you put into the machine INCLUDING your pin.

 

Since we ONLY get to know there has been a cloning AFTER returning from a trip I do not see what your point is.

 

Brian

[Paulchili]

Sorry Paulchlli

 

But although you may technically be right, the thieves of this world can copy whatever info you put into the machine INCLUDING your pin.

 

Since we ONLY get to know there has been a cloning AFTER returning from a trip I do not see what your point is.

 

Brian

 

 

You are right about the thieves - they are crafty. However, I would much rather take my chances with a CC that requires my PIN for its usage (like my ATM card does) than one that does not.

As far as your second statement - it is not entirely true (in my case, anyway).

As I often travel for extended periods of time, I check my accounts regularly (and make payments as needed) so I would know before getting home. In addition, my CC company often contacts me to verify "suspicious" charges that do not match my patterns (even when they ARE mine) - so again I would know before I get home.

Anyway, if it was up to me, I'd get a CC that requires a PIN :)

Appologies to OP for hijacking this thread - I am done now with my rant.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I am not sure if the technology that Exonn Mobilr uses for their pay at the pump wand that you can tie into any credit card is the same, but I just received a new Chase card with the same technology in it. I have seen these at CVS and a few other places locally in the Boston area. Does anyone know if this I the same as the European system?

 

I believe this is different technology. We have it too here in Canada on some cards, it's called "tap and go". Not the same as chip'n pin.

 

And yes, it's the chip that's embedded in the card, not the pin. Works very well, no signing, almost like an atm card (which are much more popular here in Canada than the US I have read.)

[glenneagle]

Just returned from Barcelona and yes we had a problem at the Dutti store. After several failed attempts we told the sales person to call the manager as we knew our cards were good. They processed them on a different machine and the charges went thru just fine.We informed stores after that experience that our cards had no pin and please use the older machines. No problem after that.