Regulations

[jersey52]

Does any indpendent body oversee the casino operations on these ships, such as the Casino Control Commission in NJ or are they free to operate any way they want? The cruise line may have some input, but as long as they are both making money, I'm sure they don't care....Just wondering...:)

[cb at sea]

Good question...I've wondered that, myself! I don't think there's any "gaming commission" overseeing cruise ship casinos. I do know they are tighter than tight...and have no good "odds"!

[primo1]

They just recently stopped using guidlines from the NGC, Nevada Gaming Comm. This is why ALL table games on a cruise ship is a complete joke.

It is now like playing games at a Carnival. They have a captured audience, and everyone uses the excuse, "Im just having fun mentality"

But if someone wants to be a fool with their money, go for it.

[ParrothdJH]

Does any indpendent body oversee the casino operations on these ships, such as the Casino Control Commission in NJ or are they free to operate any way they want? The cruise line may have some input, but as long as they are both making money, I'm sure they don't care....Just wondering...:)

Nope. Their casinos are only open in international waters, thus no one to answer to but themselves.

[F22Smitty]

They just recently stopped using guidlines from the NGC, Nevada Gaming Comm. This is why ALL table games on a cruise ship is a complete joke.

It is now like playing games at a Carnival. They have a captured audience, and everyone uses the excuse, "Im just having fun mentality"

But if someone wants to be a fool with their money, go for it.

 

Are you talking about the whole casino or just slots?

 

How does the casino control roulette or craps?

 

How are all the table games a complete joke? Please explain.

[ParrothdJH]

Are you talking about the whole casino or just slots?

 

How does the casino control roulette or craps?

 

How are all the table games a complete joke? Please explain.

They control the whole casino. They can set their slot payouts at any % they desire and don't have to post these payouts. As for table games, roulette is one of the few games they really can't alter( no need to with it's high house advantge). Craps, they can, and do, limit the free odds, they Pay the center bets at "for one" instead of "to one" which is a huge house edge. BJ, most cruise casinos now pay 6-5 instead of 3-2 at all but the high limit tables. Their pay tables at 3 card poker are slightly lower than most land based casinos. The Caribbean Stud jackpot is much lower than it should be. Getting the picture? Their house, their rules. I play only BJ(only at the high limit tables where they generally go by "Vegas strip" rules) , craps(I never bet the center, sucker bets), and ocassionally 3 card poker on my cruises, well aware of the lower odds of winning. But when it's the only game in town, I'm still in.

[Casino Player]

They control the whole casino. They can set their slot payouts at any % they desire and don't have to post these payouts. As for table games, roulette is one of the few games they really can't alter( no need to with it's high house advantge). Craps, they can, and do, limit the free odds, they Pay the center bets at "for one" instead of "to one" which is a huge house edge. BJ, most cruise casinos now pay 6-5 instead of 3-2 at all but the high limit tables. Their pay tables at 3 card poker are slightly lower than most land based casinos. The Caribbean Stud jackpot is much lower than it should be. Getting the picture? Their house, their rules. I play only BJ(only at the high limit tables where they generally go by "Vegas strip" rules) , craps(I never bet the center, sucker bets), and ocassionally 3 card poker on my cruises, well aware of the lower odds of winning. But when it's the only game in town, I'm still in.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO ParrothdJH: Limit free odds, all Casinos do that unless they offer 100x odds to try and get more people to play. The most common game in the U.S. is a double odds game. Paying off Prop bets at for one instead of to one just means that the original bet is included in the payout.

Last year I was on three cruises. The only BJ table that had a 6-5 payout on BJ was the one were one deck was used.

Table games generally have the same rules from casino to casino. The rules of the game don't change. If any cruise line casino or land based casino changed the rules of the game to make them even more disadvantagous to the player then they probably would not be in business long. People would not play there.

[ParrothdJH]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO ParrothdJH: Limit free odds, all Casinos do that unless they offer 100x odds to try and get more people to play. The most common game in the U.S. is a double odds game. Paying off Prop bets at for one instead of to one just means that the original bet is included in the payout.

Last year I was on three cruises. The only BJ table that had a 6-5 payout on BJ was the one were one deck was used.

Table games generally have the same rules from casino to casino. The rules of the game don't change. If any cruise line casino or land based casino changed the rules of the game to make them even more disadvantagous to the player then they probably would not be in business long. People would not play there.

It's obvious you don't play in many casinos or understand prop bets and the difference in "to one" and "for one". All Harrah's properties offer 3,4 5 odds at craps with the exception of the Horsehoe"s which offer

20X odds and Most Tunica casinos offer 100x odds. As for a "10 to 1" prop bet it pays you just that, 10 dollars for every one bet and you keep the one as oppsed to a "10 for 1" prop bet, which pays you ten dollars and THEY keep the one. Do the math, big difference. Ncl has changed their hard 6 and 8 to 9 to 1 and hard 4 and 10 to7-1, as oppsed to Vegas 10 to 1 and 8 to 1, and will only let you bet $90 on these bets. And yes the rules of the game do change from casino to casino and cruise line to cruise line, they even change from table to table in the same casino. On the NCL Pearl, which I've sailed twice this year, BJ pays 6-5 at ALL tables below $25 and they hit on soft 17 at all tables below $100. at Bill's in Vegas, the only place you get a 3-2 payout is at the $25 tables. All other BJ there is 6-5. Do you not consider changing the payouts, changing the rules?

[Casino Player]

It's obvious you don't play in many casinos or understand prop bets and the difference in "to one" and "for one". All Harrah's properties offer 3,4 5 odds at craps with the exception of the Horsehoe"s which offer

20X odds and Most Tunica casinos offer 100x odds. As for a "10 to 1" prop bet it pays you just that, 10 dollars for every one bet and you keep the one as oppsed to a "10 for 1" prop bet, which pays you ten dollars and THEY keep the one. Do the math, big difference. Ncl has changed their hard 6 and 8 to 9 to 1 and hard 4 and 10 to7-1, as oppsed to Vegas 10 to 1 and 8 to 1, and will only let you bet $90 on these bets. And yes the rules of the game do change from casino to casino and cruise line to cruise line, they even change from table to table in the same casino. On the NCL Pearl, which I've sailed twice this year, BJ pays 6-5 at ALL tables below $25 and they hit on soft 17 at all tables below $100. at Bill's in Vegas, the only place you get a 3-2 payout is at the $25 tables. All other BJ there is 6-5. Do you not consider changing the payouts, changing the rules?

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO ParrothdJH: Actually, I have played in quite a few casinos in Atlantic City, Las Vegas, Missouri, Reno, Carson City, both sides of Lake Tahoe on the Nevada side, and five different cruise lines. The hardway 4 and 10 should be paid higher than the hard 6 and 8. The best bets at the craps table are the Pass Line, Don't Pass Line, Come and Don't Come. The odds bets associated with those bets are the only bets in the casino that pays at true odds. Hardway bets are good for tipping.

BJ is a suckers game. It is only even money unless you get BJ. The only other ways of winning more is by increasing your risk of doubling down or splitting.

Roulette you don't get paid true odds. Even money bets when the true odds should be higher. 2-1 bets when the actual odds should be higher. Changing the payout is not changing the rules of the game.

[ParrothdJH]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO ParrothdJH: Actually, I have played in quite a few casinos in Atlantic City, Las Vegas, Missouri, Reno, Carson City, both sides of Lake Tahoe on the Nevada side, and five different cruise lines. The hardway 4 and 10 should be paid higher than the hard 6 and 8. The best bets at the craps table are the Pass Line, Don't Pass Line, Come and Don't Come. The odds bets associated with those bets are the only bets in the casino that pays at true odds. Hardway bets are good for tipping.

BJ is a suckers game. It is only even money unless you get BJ. The only other ways of winning more is by increasing your risk of doubling down or splitting.

Roulette you don't get paid true odds. Even money bets when the true odds should be higher. 2-1 bets when the actual odds should be higher. Changing the payout is not changing the rules of the game.

Did you do the math and the difference between "to 1" and "for 1"? I agree that craps has the lowest house edge when making the bets you mention( I don't need a craps lesson BTW), I Have to disagre about BJ being a sucker's game. When played properly at a table with 3-2 on BJ, doubling on any two first cards, splitting after doubling, surrender and the dealer standing on soft 17 it has only a slightly higher house edge than craps.

[Casino Player]

Did you do the math and the difference between "to 1" and "for 1"? I agree that craps has the lowest house edge when making the bets you mention( I don't need a craps lesson BTW), I Have to disagre about BJ being a sucker's game. When played properly at a table with 3-2 on BJ, doubling on any two first cards, splitting after doubling, surrender and the dealer standing on soft 17 it has only a slightly higher house edge than craps.

 

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO ParrothdJH: Well, we will disagree on wether BJ is a suckers game or not. I also don't believe in a game being properly played. However, have you ever heard of Jeffrey Ma? He was on of the MIT players and part of the MIT team that went to Las Vegas regularly. In fact, because of him they changed the rules of BJ. He was interviewed by Stuart Varney yesterday on the Fox Business Channel. He knows all the ins and outs of BJ. He stated that the House has a 3% to 4% edge. Why give the House such a big edge?

[dkjretired]

Does any indpendent body oversee the casino operations on these ships, such as the Casino Control Commission in NJ or are they free to operate any way they want? The cruise line may have some input, but as long as they are both making money, I'm sure they don't care....Just wondering...:)

 

To answer your question, there is an organization of cruise lines called the International Council of Cruise lines which does some regulation of games however it has no regulatory control or ability to issue fines as in Jersey or Vegas.

 

Here is a good article explaining the question that you asked.

 

http://www.cruise-casinos.com/rules.htm

[Silverscreencruiser]

1) Despite how blackjack counting systems are portrayed on TV and the movies (especially the recent film 21), card counting and the use of signalers and runners (the way Ma's team was portrayed) are a method to get a small advantage for the player which results, over a long period of time, in the players being able to win. They do not just sit down at a "hot" table and win hand after hand the way it's shown in the movies. Plus, "hot" tables typically don't stay hot very long (a "hot" table is one that has a high percentage of tens and aces left in the deck... as it's played out it gets less hot over a period of time). There's very few people who have the bankroll, the skill, and the discipline to make a system like that work and they aren't the reason profits in Vegas are down. Profits are down because business in general is down due to the economy and fewer people taking gambling vacations (and spending less).

 

2) The rules change gradually in Vegas (which, unlike Atlantic City or many other jurisdictions, has no central gaming commission setting the rules) because players put up with it. When players balk, the casinos change back. It's very easy in Vegas (unlike a cruise ship) to walk down the block to the next casino over if you don't like the rules or anything else about your casino experience in one location. It's still fairly easy to get a 3-2 blackjack game in Vegas.

 

3) On Carnival (at least the last time I went last fall), the dealer hit soft 17 but otherwise, the rules were fairly good (could not resplit aces though). Blackjack paid 3-2. That means the odds against the player playing good basic strategy were .66%, not great but not horrible. Cruise blackjack players tend on average to be worse than land-based casino players because most people go on to a gambling locale with the idea of gambling and tend to be a bit more knowledgeable as a result. Many cruise blackjack players have no prior knowledge of table games and go on a cruise for other reasons. They wind up playing in the casino for the same reason they might get a spa treatment or buy the drink of the day... in order to "experience" everything that's available on the cruise. They are likely to make many, many dumb plays for a variety of reasons.

[ParrothdJH]

HHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLLOOOOO ParrothdJH: Well, we will disagree on wether BJ is a suckers game or not. I also don't believe in a game being properly played. However, have you ever heard of Jeffrey Ma? He was on of the MIT players and part of the MIT team that went to Las Vegas regularly. In fact, because of him they changed the rules of BJ. He was interviewed by Stuart Varney yesterday on the Fox Business Channel. He knows all the ins and outs of BJ. He stated that the House has a 3% to 4% edge. Why give the House such a big edge?

Yes I am familar with Jeffrey Ma, but it's a mystery to me where he comes up with the house having a 3-4% advanatge. Every study I've read over the years, and there have been many, Give the houe between .5 and 1.5% edge, depending on the table rules and

using proper startegy. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree whether BJ is a sucker's game. All I know is I've won a whole lot more than I've lost over the years playing BJ. If that makes me a sucker, so be it.

[MrCo9]

There is NO, repeat NO casino in Las Vegas that is paying 10:1 on the hard 6 & 8 or 8:1 on the hard 4 and 10, they are all 10 for 1 and 8 for 1. Many of The Strip casinos have gone back to 30 for 1 on the 2 & 12 and 15 for 1 on the 3 & 11.

[grod19]

wouldn't any game that gives one side an advantage over the other be a suckers game?? therefore making every casino game a suckers game

[Silverscreencruiser]

Yes I am familar with Jeffrey Ma, but it's a mystery to me where he comes up with the house having a 3-4% advanatge. Every study I've read over the years, and there have been many, Give the houe between .5 and 1.5% edge, depending on the table rules and using proper strategy.

 

Those last three words are the key. Many, many players do not use proper strategy (mimic the dealer and never bust strategies aren't rare, and there's tons of people who split tens and take insurance whenever they have a BJ, not to mention players who never split or double down because they don't understand the rules). And on a cruise ship, I'd guess that even more people play "bad" strategy than on a mainland casino. Ma's figures are probably about right, and maybe even a bit low.

[AndyTheK]

<snip>

 

Ncl has changed their hard 6 and 8 to 9 to 1 and hard 4 and 10 to7-1, as oppsed to Vegas 10 to 1 and 8 to 1

 

<snip>

 

On the NCL Pearl, which I've sailed twice this year, BJ pays 6-5 at ALL tables below $25 and they hit on soft 17 at all tables below $100.

 

<snip>

I haven't been on NCL in close to 30 years. I was on the Coral Princess this past Christmas and will sail with Princess in 6 weeks. On Princess, they paid 3-2 on blackjack except on the $25 single deck table.

 

I read ParrothdJH's post with interest. There are threads here praising to the heavens the comps that NCL offers, in contrast to Princess which is known for being quite stingy in this respect (though we were comped a drink now and then). Perhaps "NCL giveth and NCL taketh away"? :rolleyes:

 

Shalom from Tel Aviv. Andy