Princess Slowing Trips to MR

[star gazer]

At one time, Princess had roughly 32 seasonal cruises to the Mexican Riviera. For 2010/2011 that number is 16 trips; 2011/2012, 11 times.

I could suggest a number of reasons for this change but am not privy to Princess/Carnival management decisions.

[Colo Cruiser]

At one time, Princess had roughly 32 seasonal cruises to the Mexican Riviera. For 2010/2011 that number is 16 trips; 2011/2012, 11 times.

I could suggest a number of reasons for this change but am not privy to Princess/Carnival management decisions.

 

 

There is really only 1 reason and thats crime.

 

RCL/NCL are pulling their ships out.

[paul929207]

Crinme and the H1N1 flu last year. These have cause many people to think twice about traveling to Mexico.

[mtaylor04]

I have to agree with Colo - just this past July there was a news article about norwegian pulling out because of crime.

 

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/5594502/norwegian_star_cruise_ship_moving_out.html

 

The cruise lines must do a cost benefit analysis to decide if the profit outweighs the potential danger (and cost to them). However, it would seem to me if they were really worried about the crime issue why are they waiting more than a year to pull out?

[onthelake]

We have done MR a few times. It is a cruise that is easy for us to board (west coast) and there are some good prices. But, for us, this is not an itinerary to repeat every year. We like it when we really want to spend time relaxing on the ship. If we are looking for fun, interesting ports, MR isn't the one we choose.

[sackman]

We have done MR a few times. It is a cruise that is easy for us to board (west coast) and there are some good prices. But, for us, this is not an itinerary to repeat every year. We like it when we really want to spend time relaxing on the ship. If we are looking for fun, interesting ports, MR isn't the one we choose.

 

Bingo.

 

MR is a convenient itinerary for folks on the West Coast (Colorado isn't exactly on the West Coast, but close enough for government work, I suppose). It's reasonably affordable and provides a nice, relaxing week of vacation. The ports are completely secondary. I typically go to the beach at Puerto Vallarta, don't get off the ship at all in Mazatlan, and just go wander around Cabo.

 

One other nice thing about this itinerary is the wildlife. It's very common to see whales and large pods of dolphins. It's like being on a huge whale watching excursion.

[Rhitson88]

I have only been on a MR cruise once probably. And to tell you the truth I am completely fine with them just throwing Cozumel in with the other islands of a carribbean cruise. Gets me all the Mexico I need lol. Beautiful too. And still can get Mcdonalds right there by the port haha.

[Pam in CA]

Crinme and the H1N1 flu last year. These have cause many people to think twice about traveling to Mexico.

There's another important reason: too many berths for essentially the same itinerary. Just as in Alaska, Princess and other cruiselines have had to lower prices to fill the ships, so they are being deployed elsewhere where they can charge more. Crime and flu are two reasons but economics is the bigger reason.

 

I have only been on a MR cruise once probably. And to tell you the truth I am completely fine with them just throwing Cozumel in with the other islands of a carribbean cruise. Gets me all the Mexico I need lol. Beautiful too. And still can get Mcdonalds right there by the port haha.

What does Cozumel have to do with a MR cruise? The Caribbean is a continent away from the Pacific ocean.

[junglejane]

It seems to me that it comes down to the cruise line's return on its investment. RCI's CEO said they were moving the Mariner OTS because it was simply more profitable to place the ship elsewhere. Crime may have something to do with this, but I think it's more complicated.

 

My theory is that there are probably too many people like me on these MR cruises. ;) I'm going for the 5th time. I wait until the price is low to book. I don't book any shore excursions, and just DIY. I don't really spend much onboard. I'm just not that profitable to the cruise line on these MR cruises.

 

In the Caribbean you probably have more people who are traveling a long way to go on the cruise, and consider it a major vacation where they will pull out all the stops and spend a lot onboard.

[Colo Cruiser]

Ship Shoves Off From L.A. Port

 

Mexican violence hurting local cruise industry.

 

Courtesy Photo

Mariner of the Seas will move its home port to Texas from L.A.

 

By David Haldane

Monday, June 21, 2010

 

The West Coast’s biggest cruise ship is leaving the Port of Los Angeles next year, in large part because of fears of violence in Mexico.

That’s the opinion of several cruise industry experts in the wake of Royal Caribbean International’s recent decision to relocate its 3,835-passenger Mariner of the Seas in January.

Eventually it will be home ported in Galveston, Texas, for trips to Europe and the Caribbean. Since arriving in Los Angeles early last year, the $650 million passenger ship has been offering weekly seven-day cruises to Mexico.

But that market has changed.

The widely publicized war between the country’s federal government and its powerful drug cartels has led to nearly 30,000 deaths since 2007. And on the West Coast – where 90 percent of cruises depart for the Mexican Riviera and other points south – the number of passengers in the last two years has dwindled by 21 percent.

Norwegian Cruise Line announced last year it will no longer offer cruises to Mexico from Los Angeles after May 2011. Its ship, the Norwegian Star, which was not permanently based in Los Angeles, is relocating to Tampa, Fla., also for Caribbean cruises. Cruise line officials could not be reached for comment.

“People are obviously concerned about the violence and justifiably so,” said Oivind Mathisen, editor of Cruise Industry News, a New York-based trade publication that has tracked the West Coast cruise numbers. “They don’t want to get caught in the crossfire.”

The Royal Caribbean cruise line, for its part, will say only that the decision is an economic one.

“We’re looking to maximize our profits,” said Harrison Liu, a spokesman for the cruise line, owned by Miami-based Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. “Both Europe and the Caribbean are hotter tickets than the Mexican Riviera, and there’s a stable market out of Galveston.”

In a blog addressing the issue, company Chief Executive Adam Goldstein explained further. “There is no question that there are tens of thousands of loyal Royal Caribbean cruisers who live in the Western U.S. and cruise on Mariner of the Seas,” Goldstein wrote. “Yet the ship does not perform at an acceptable level to be able to remain in California.”

Of Los Angeles, he said, the company “hopes to return in the not-too-distant future” but has no immediate plans to do so.

Royal Caribbean declined to release financial information related specifically to the Mariner. However, asked directly about the Mexican violence, another company spokesperson, Tracy Quan, admitted that “it was one of the factors we looked at” but would not say whether it was decisive.

Based on what’s happening in the industry, many believe the events in Mexico are a significant reason for the departure.

The Port of San Diego recently lost the only luxury cruise liner based there: Carnival Cruise’s Elation. The ship relocated to Mobile, Ala., a port spokesman said, amid a bookings lull driven, in part, by the Mexican crime.

“People are dissuaded from traveling there,” spokesman John Gilmore said.

And five ships that had summered in Alaska and were scheduled to pick up passengers in San Francisco en route to Mexico changed their itineraries earlier this year.

“I know the violence was a big issue,” said Peter Dailey, maritime director at the Port of San Francisco. “Perception becomes reality, and people who take cruises are steering clear of Mexico.”

Closer to home, meanwhile, the loss of the Mariner was seen as a blow.

“It was a gray day for me,” Chris Chase, marketing director for the Port of Los Angeles, said regarding last month’s announcement that the port’s only year-round cruise ship would be leaving. “No one likes losing business, and this was upsetting.”

The Mariner, at 1,202 feet long, is one of the largest ships in the world, with an on-board ice-skating rink, rock-climbing wall, casinos, basketball gym and miniature golf course.

Turbulent Seas

Experts say the shifts represent the continuous flux in the industry as cruise operators seek to maximize their income.

Ship operators try to make sure that each trip is full, said Tom Conder, an equity leisure analyst with Wells Fargo Securities LLC in St. Louis who covers the cruise industry. When demand for a destination falls, they compensate by lowering price. That results in more passengers paying lesser amounts.

About 75 percent of a ship’s revenue is from ticket sales. Also important, according to Conder, is the income stemming from extra spending by passengers, including on-shore excursions. In Mexico’s case, the number of excursions could be tamped down because at least some passengers fear getting off the ship.

“It all breaks down to where they believe they can get the highest tickets and on-board spending for a particular type of ship,” he said. “Operators are always looking for the best return on a ship. Demand for a geographic area will ebb and flow.”

The port will take a financial hit with the loss of the ship. The estimated 250,000 passengers who board the Mariner each year constitute about 30 percent of the port’s cruise business, all of which brings in roughly $6.7 million annually in docking fees and parking. What’s more, the port estimates that every time a ship docks for a voyage it has a wider economic impact of about $900,000 per vessel.

“You bring a ship in, there’s a change out of the crew, the ship has to be cleaned and provisioned and you have lots of people coming in spending money at tourist attractions,” said Jack Kyser, senior economist of the Los Angeles County Economic Development Corporation. “It’s an important industry that generates lots of revenue.”

With all those dollars in play, in fact, port officials say they had considered the Mariner the centerpiece of what they’d hoped would be a newly invigorated cruise business.

As part of that effort, the port is proceeding with $42 million in planned improvements to its World Cruise Center, including $9.4 million worth of new gangways already completed to specifically accommodate the Mariner. The rest – including solar paneling, painting, lighting and shore side hookups for electrical power – are expected to be finished this year.

Yet Los Angeles port officials say the blow won’t be fatal. The revenue generated by the Mariner and other cruise lines constitutes only about 1.5 percent of the port’s annual revenue, most of which comes from container vessels.

Even without Royal Caribbean or Norwegian Cruise Line, Chase said, the port will still have two Princess Cruise Line vessels: one to Hawaii, the other to Mexico. And beginning early next year, Disney Cruise Line will be adding a ship.

Neither Princess nor Disney returned calls seeking comment. In a press release announcing the move last year, however, Disney said it had “tested the West Coast market with two summer seasons of Mexican Riviera itineraries” but was not yet ready to reveal detailed plans for its Los Angeles itineraries.

“We’re obviously trying to create the right environment to bring more ships back,” Chase said.

Fears overblown?

Some travel consultants say the fear of Mexican traveling is overblown.

Joe McClure, president of Glendale’s Montrose Travel, which books thousands of clients on cruise ships worldwide, said he’s seen a dramatic increase in questions from would-be customers regarding the safety of Mexico over the past several months.

“We don’t counsel them to stay away, just to stay where it’s safe,” he said. “Don’t go out alone at night, don’t go on dark streets or alleys and don’t go where you’re not welcome. So far we haven’t had a single customer incident down there. We love Mexico and think it’s a great destination.”

He claims his cruise and plane bookings to Mexico have even increased slightly due to aggressive marketing.

But that’s not the case with Jay Silberman, president of Cruise Consultants Co. in San Antonio. He said his bookings to Mexico have plummeted about 40 percent in the past year.

However, with next year’s arrival of the Mariner in Galveston, he believes he’s likely to benefit from higher bookings to the Caribbean and European destinations.

“It’s a beautiful ship,” Silberman said of the 142,000-ton vessel built in 2003. “This will be great for the people of Texas.”

 

From the LA Times Business Journal.

[BosoxI]

I'm tired of Mexico and Mexicans and have spent all of one day there in the last 11 years. I used to visit there quite frequently. I suspect others feel the same. Now I am a Carib regular and better off for it.

[RickEk]

As others have suggested and the article confirms, it is all about the yields. If a ship isn't making money, it's time to move it to where it will be profitable. At least Princess isn't abandoning the market as is NCL and RCCL, they're just reducing the number of voyages. Since the other two lines will be gone, this will probably make the Princess voyages more desirable and more expensive.

[bbqbrad]

i'm tired of mexico and mexicans and have spent all of one day there in the last 11 years. I used to visit there quite frequently. I suspect others feel the same. Now i am a carib regular and better off for it.

 

 

huh?

[BruceMuzz]

I sat in on many of the corporate conference calls regarding my empoyer's decision to reduce Mexican Riviera itineraries.

 

Not once did anybody mention crime or swine flu.

The discussion was all about profits.

 

Most people who sail on Mexican Riviera cruises are looking for a cheap Mexican cruise. They don't have much money, and they don't spend much money.

 

We moved our ships elsewhere - where they make far more money.

[The Big Booper]

Two points not raised in this discussion. The Port of Los Angeles has tripled their per capita head tax in the last couple of years. And based on one article I read last year and can't find now, the Port of LA has stringent new rules regarding the allowable fuel on any ship docking there.

 

Add these to the few available ports available on the MR and the heavy repeat cruising population that does no or little on-board spending, this is a recipe for the gradual disappearance of the West Coast ship population.

[wizard-of-roz]

We love to vacation onboard a cruiseline.......it's the only "all-inclusive" vacationing that's really worth the money. Other than purchasing drinks/souvenir's and photo's it's really a great deal.

The ships are glorious/the rooms are not big but they're more than adequate/the staff is wonderful and the food/ambiance and entertainment are well worth the money spent.

We live in L.A.; we drive to the dock [45 minutes]; we board the ship within an hour and find that the "hussle and bussle" of the crowds can be easily ignored. We cruise for one week/10 days or make it a B/B.

Mexico as well as the Caribbean hold no special value to us, any more, other than the occasional school of dolphins that meandor by in the ocean......and, that can make it worth the entire trip.

The Caribbean is just as "unstable" as Mexico, it's just not publicized as much. The poverty in both places is rampant and our tourist dollars are very welcomend and needed. The money that is made from the docking of the cruise ships in these countries goes a long way for them. The crime remains in the "interior" of the countries and has not been discernable on or near the cruiselines.

It doesn't really effect us either way. We don't go into the interior portions [any longer] and certainly do not stay in these countries off the ship. We feel very safe cruising into Mexico, the Caribbean as much as we feel safe cruising into the Mediterranean, the Middle East or China.

[wizard-of-roz]

What I meant to say is: I hope that Princess/Carnival and Holland America keep their ships in L.A., Long Beach and San Diego just for us folks who love the cruising experience, without having to get on a !*+! airplane to do so. :(

[kruzinRiva]

We have "done" Mexico many times and frankly, love the fact that we can go without having to fly. It isn't crime or disease that has kept us from booking again but the fact that we don't care for 3-4 or even 7 day cruises -- 10 to 14 days is our preference and these longer sailings are rarely offered when we can go (May through September). The Mexican cruises also suffer from the same problem as Alaska -- honestly, how many times do you want to do the SAME 3 ports??? We are much more likely to spring for shore excursions etc. the first and second time we visit someplace. I think the cruise lines could generate higher revenue and fill their ships better if they put a bit of effort into freshening up their itineraries. It would work for us!

[wizard-of-roz]

We have "done" Mexico many times and frankly, love the fact that we can go without having to fly. It isn't crime or disease that has kept us from booking again but the fact that we don't care for 3-4 or even 7 day cruises -- 10 to 14 days is our preference and these longer sailings are rarely offered when we can go (May through September). The Mexican cruises also suffer from the same problem as Alaska -- honestly, how many times do you want to do the SAME 3 ports??? We are much more likely to spring for shore excursions etc. the first and second time we visit someplace. I think the cruise lines could generate higher revenue and fill their ships better if they put a bit of effort into freshening up their itineraries. It would work for us!

 

Exactly why we're taking advantage of our upcoming Pacific Northwest cruise in September of 2011, out of L.A.

I hope they keep this one around for a while......although we can drive to these destinations, cruising there sounds really delightful.

And, as you say "refreshing" their itineraries to the MR and Alaska is also a very good idea and, might attract more folks from out of state.

[Pam in CA]

I'm tired of Mexico and Mexicans and have spent all of one day there in the last 11 years. I used to visit there quite frequently. I suspect others feel the same. Now I am a Carib regular and better off for it.

Au contraire. Having cruised the Caribbean many times, I still prefer cruising from the West Coast. And that was before I moved from MA to 45 minutes from the Port of Los Angeles. The ports are limited and it's the same old, same old but my experience with cruisers leaving from LA has been far better. It takes a very special cruise to get me back to the Caribbean. I'd rather do the MR over and over.

[wizard-of-roz]

I'm tired of Mexico and Mexicans and have spent all of one day there in the last 11 years. I used to visit there quite frequently. I suspect others feel the same. Now I am a Carib regular and better off for it.

 

Not a particularly nice comment. The Mexican people are wonderful people.

When we get off the ship and venture out to shop and explore we have been very welcomed. And, the locals who come onboard to entertain us at the various ports are fabulous.

We used to do more exploring, in years past. I spent a lot of money in Mexico and love their jewlery and artifacts. I still buy jewelry onboard [you can't have too much jewelry] and, the dolls and glass animals are something I purchase everytime we cruise.

We take our children and have done so for many years to Olvera Street, here in L.A.

To make such a "blanket" statement about a people is simply unkind.

[kruzinRiva]

Couldn't agree more! In fact, it looks very likely we'll be joining you on the PNW jaunt! Love the idea of visiting these places from the sea. How 'bout a 10-14 day round-trip LA??? Now THAT would be grand! Many folks prefer a longer cruise if they have to fly so that might boost out-of-state bookings as well.

 

Becca

 

Exactly why we're taking advantage of our upcoming Pacific Northwest cruise in September of 2011, out of L.A.

 

I hope they keep this one around for a while......although we can drive to these destinations, cruising there sounds really delightful.

 

[dd57]

We just received a brochure from Princess that said in 2011 they are adding a 7 day "California Coastal" itinerary that goes to San Francisco, Santa Barbara, San Diego and Ensenada. They only list 3 dates (Sep, Oct, Apr), but it looks like they are experimenting to keep the Sapphire busy before/after Alaska.

[Pam in CA]

Couldn't agree more! In fact, it looks very likely we'll be joining you on the PNW jaunt! Love the idea of visiting these places from the sea. How 'bout a 10-14 day round-trip LA??? Now THAT would be grand! Many folks prefer a longer cruise if they have to fly so that might boost out-of-state bookings as well.

We're taking a 10-day MR cruise in January; you also have the option of taking the 14-day cruise to/from HI. I wish they offered more CA Coastal cruises, though.

[kruzinRiva]

We're taking a 10-day MR cruise in January; you also have the option of taking the 14-day cruise to/from HI. I wish they offered more CA Coastal cruises, though.

 

Agreed -- I was actually thinking of a round trip California Coastal. Hopefully enough folks will book the Coastals that Princess will continue them and perhaps add a few more. It'd be a GREAT summertime itinerary, I'm thinkin'. Though I'd be thrilled if Princess brought back the round trip LA Panama Canal cruise, too! We just did Hawaii on the Golden last Spring and I'm sure we'll do it again -- love the Golden and LOVE me some Sea Days!! We just have to keep voting with our pocket books and convince Princess that West Coast Sailings can be profitable for them, right?

 

Happy Sailing,

 

Becca