Engineering Soundness of HAL

[drcpa]

I'm curious about the engineering soundness of HAL as it relates to passenger comfort.

All cruise forums contain complaints about ships and their operations.

However, these complaints tend to fall into the subjective area of service (including excursions and entertainment) and food.

This forum has it's share of those issues, but also contains a fair number of AC and bathroom concerns.

These concerns seem to be (a) more objective--my AC didn't work, I had no hot water, and my toilet didn't flush and (b)

more ongoing and unrelenting than let's say a bad meal or bad waiter.

Is there an issue with the engineering soundness of the HAL fleet?

[Bramcruiser]

Is there an issue with the engineering soundness of the HAL fleet?

 

 

No!

[Roz]

Many of the cruise lines under the Carnival umbrella (including HAL) have their ships built at the Fincantieri shipyard near Genoa, Italy. I'm not aware of other lines having the same AC issues, so maybe it's a maintenance or operations issue. I seriously doubt it's due to poor engineering.

 

Roz

[Copper10-8]

I'm curious about the engineering soundness of HAL as it relates to passenger comfort.

All cruise forums contain complaints about ships and their operations.

However, these complaints tend to fall into the subjective area of service (including excursions and entertainment) and food.

This forum has it's share of those issues, but also contains a fair number of AC and bathroom concerns.

These concerns seem to be (a) more objective--my AC didn't work, I had no hot water, and my toilet didn't flush and (b)

more ongoing and unrelenting than let's say a bad meal or bad waiter.

Is there an issue with the engineering soundness of the HAL fleet?

 

 

It's gotta be those Italians at Fincantieri! They're still working with the same sticks and stones they started out with in 1959:cool:

[SwissMyst]

Besides engineering there might be other aspects to consider:

 

Does HAL attract more passengers that flush things down the toilets back them up for others down the line or leave their balcony doors open that ruin the A/C for other on the same system?

 

Does the relative lack of passenger announcements contribute to a more lax attitude among HAL passengers to not worry about their individual actions impacts on the rest of the ship?

 

Does having an open attitude about bring alcohol on board for in room consumption make for more careless passengers?

 

Does the relatively open discussion policy on the HAL CC forum allow more complaint posts or of a different nature than found on other CC forums?

 

Do discussions that do not establish actual temperature measurements in lieu of more general complaints like it was "too hot" and "I could not sleep" render a lot of this problem to be subjective, rather than objective?

[Atomica]

From a technical standpoint, the engineering soundness of the HAL fleet is fine.

 

It's important to remember that these fantastic ships are still, at their hearts, machines: large, intricate complex ones, and when something fails, it may not be a matter of popping off the ship and heading to the nearest Home Depot.

 

Quite often, it involves ordering specialized parts that are either sourced from different areas of the world, or which have to be manufactured before being sent.

 

The AC issues on Veendam were, I have no doubt, unpleasant for passengers. But with something that serious, you have to know HAL will fix it as fast as they can.

 

The clogged toilet thing? Well, let's just say they don't clog themselves. And even though there's a little plaque above the toilet telling you what not to flush, you have to assume some passengers will still do as they please. You only have to take a trip to the Lido for confirmation of that :)

 

And that's how you have an entire section of corridor that smells faintly...ripe.

[SwissMyst]

I wonder it is would be appropriate for passengers to sign off on each item before boarding, kind of a Passenger Code of Conduct for Happy Sailing for All:

 

1. I will not flush things down the toilets that do not belong ______ (initials)

2. I will not force my balcony door to stay open _________(initials)

3. I will use hand sanitizers and wash my hand frequently _______(initials)

 

These seem to be the big three individual behavior choices that seem to come up often enough that have impacts for the rest of us. This is not meant to deteiorate into a petty list of greivances, which is why I also did not add 4. I agree to dress up on formal nights.

 

But it is meant to be a possible remedy to really important passenger behavior choices that do have material impact on the safe and healthy functioning of our mutually shared ship.

[navybankerteacher]

I wonder it is would be appropriate for passengers to sign off on each item before boarding, kind of a Passenger Code of Conduct for Happy Sailing for All:

 

1. I will not flush things down the toilets that do not belong ______ (initials)

2. I will not force my balcony door to stay open _________(initials)

3. I will use hand sanitizers and wash my hand frequently _______(initials)

 

These seem to be the big three individual behavior choices that seem to come up often enough that have impacts for the rest of us. This is not meant to deteiorate into a petty list of greivances, which is why I also did not add 4. I agree to dress up on formal nights.

 

But it is meant to be a possible remedy to really important passenger behavior choices that do have material impact on the safe and healthy functioning of our mutually shared ship.

 

I like the idea of requesting passengers to agree to play by the rules -including #4.

[Copper10-8]

From a technical standpoint, the engineering soundness of the HAL fleet is fine.

 

It's important to remember that these fantastic ships are still, at their hearts, machines: large, intricate complex ones, and when something fails, it may not be a matter of popping off the ship and heading to the nearest Home Depot.

 

Quite often, it involves ordering specialized parts that are either sourced from different areas of the world, or which have to be manufactured before being sent.

 

The AC issues on Veendam were, I have no doubt, unpleasant for passengers. But with something that serious, you have to know HAL will fix it as fast as they can.

 

The clogged toilet thing? Well, let's just say they don't clog themselves. And even though there's a little plaque above the toilet telling you what not to flush, you have to assume some passengers will still do as they please. You only have to take a trip to the Lido for confirmation of that :)

 

And that's how you have an entire section of corridor that smells faintly...ripe.

 

 

You're making way too much sense, Aaron!;)

[Seavoyage]

I wonder it is would be appropriate for passengers to sign off on each item before boarding, kind of a Passenger Code of Conduct for Happy Sailing for All:

 

1. I will not flush things down the toilets that do not belong ______ (initials)

2. I will not force my balcony door to stay open _________(initials)

3. I will use hand sanitizers and wash my hand frequently _______(initials)

 

These seem to be the big three individual behavior choices that seem to come up often enough that have impacts for the rest of us. This is not meant to deteiorate into a petty list of greivances, which is why I also did not add 4. I agree to dress up on formal nights.

 

But it is meant to be a possible remedy to really important passenger behavior choices that do have material impact on the safe and healthy functioning of our mutually shared ship.

 

Like the health form - love that idea SwissMyst - but you know some PAX would initial that they will comply and then they wouldn't. Just like some claim to not be sick/ill on the form and they are...:rolleyes:

[Cinder Again]

I was on the Rotterdam right after drydock, and we had tons of problems that only the engineers could try to solve. I will say, for the most part, they seemed to be a knowledgeable, caring group, as interested in fixing our water problems as we were. They did indicate on a couple of different occasions, that the parts used in the drydock didn't always mesh with the repair/tools/parts they had on board. Several times they told us we'd have to wait for the next port for the correct parts to reach us. Since it was the Hawaii/Tahiti trip, that sometimes meant 4-5 days. I did write to Mr.Kruse after that cruise, telling him I thought it was a mistake to take a ship straight out of drydock and use her for a long cruise, with many days between ports. I also suggested he leave at least 5 cabins empty, to move guests around, but I guess that will never happen. We were full when we sailed, and people only got shifted to other cabins, after the cabins were vacated by illness, or worse...

[IRL_Joanie]

I was on the Rotterdam right after drydock, and we had tons of problems that only the engineers could try to solve. I will say, for the most part, they seemed to be a knowledgeable, caring group, as interested in fixing our water problems as we were. They did indicate on a couple of different occasions, that the parts used in the drydock didn't always mesh with the repair/tools/parts they had on board. Several times they told us we'd have to wait for the next port for the correct parts to reach us. Since it was the Hawaii/Tahiti trip, that sometimes meant 4-5 days. I did write to Mr.Kruse after that cruise, telling him I thought it was a mistake to take a ship straight out of drydock and use her for a long cruise, with many days between ports. I also suggested he leave at least 5 cabins empty, to move guests around, but I guess that will never happen. We were full when we sailed, and people only got shifted to other cabins, after the cabins were vacated by illness, or worse...

 

I'm wondering if the Rotterdam's post dry Dock cruise and the complaints could be why the Westerdam did not go back into service immediately after it went through Dry Dock a few months later.... It did an empty cruise of the Med I believe....

 

Joanie

[Atomica]

You're making way too much sense, Aaron!;)

 

You caught me, John - I'll try to correct that next time! :D

[cruisecrasy]

I like the idea of requesting passengers to agree to play by the rules -including #4.

 

This is an excellent suggestion...I wld like to also add #4 to the list with one proviso - 'but not if I choose to go to the Lio instead of the MDR'..:)

 

Wldn't it be nice if all folks were courteous & thoughtful...unfortunately they are not so this type of thing becomes almost necessary..

 

That said, why doesn't the cruiseline instead impose stiff penalties to those that do not conform to the rules & regulations like not leaving your balcony door propped open or flushing something that is banned down the toilet? Say a fine or even lets say 'demerits' instead on their cruising record!!

 

Folks wld lose their travel cruise credit(s) toward a higher Crown & Anchor level...Well it wld make even careless folks sit up & take notice. I mean, u get credits toward higher rewards so if u screw up u cld then lose them..!

 

Shame it even has to be contemplated but unfortunately some folks make it necessary..

 

What think?

 

Happy cruisin' all! :)

[Gaucho39]

" I Agree To Be Charged $11 per day for a hotel charge,service charge, tips for the crew,whatever you want to call it.

 

I promise not to cheap out on the last day and have them removed, or stand on line with a clueless look on my face as if I didn't know I was being charged for this. Sign here-------------------

[ironin]

On our recent cruise (to Alaska, aboard brand =x= not HAL), two separate instances of plumbing problems affecting numerous cabins were caused by people flushing rocks down toilets!

 

As to your suggestion, I doubt making passengers initial a set of rules will substantially change behavior, as cruise lines will probably do no more than say "Naughty! Naughty!" to them if they don't.

[room010]

It's a nice idea but even if they sign such a 'considerate behaviour contract' some selfish people will still do exactly as they please and too bad if it impacts on someone else's comfort, enjoyment or even health. It's also impossible to enforce without intrusive "policing" and the overworked HAL staff have enough to do already.

 

If the OP's "engineering" issues are really a euphemism for yet another thread about A/C problems it's been discussed to death elsewhere and the concensus seems to be that any problems that do exist are caused for the most part by the inconsiderate behaviour of other passengers. I think HAL could and should be a lot more proactive in enouraging everyone's cooperation on these particular issues. A lot of people genuinely don't understand the impact of leaving a verandah door open because they aren't being told clearly or often enough.

[cruisecrasy]

" I Agree To Be Charged $11 per day for a hotel charge,service charge, tips for the crew,whatever you want to call it.

 

I promise not to cheap out on the last day and have them removed, or stand on line with a clueless look on my face as if I didn't know I was being charged for this. Sign here-------------------

 

Thanks so much - I needed a good laugh after reading about 'ugh' 'bed bugs'..! :(

[Juanita462]

It isn't always a passenger's fault. On the Statendam years ago a valve broke in the crew quarters and flooded it with sewage. The smell was something else - for 11 of the 17 days - and all over the ship - people sat on one side of the Lido where the smell was not so pronounced.

 

Things happen but what bothered us was the lying - "what smell" moved to "we don't know what is causing the smell but we are working on it as fast as we can"

 

The smell suddenly disappeared the day we left Hawaii - when they emptied their tanks - and, according to the Hawaian newspapers- sooner than they should have. Don't know about that bu it was great to be free of the smell for the last part of the cruise.

[pms4104]

I wonder it is would be appropriate for passengers to sign off on each item before boarding, kind of a Passenger Code of Conduct for Happy Sailing for All:

 

1. I will not flush things down the toilets that do not belong ______ (initials)

2. I will not force my balcony door to stay open _________(initials)

3. I will use hand sanitizers and wash my hand frequently _______(initials)

 

These seem to be the big three individual behavior choices that seem to come up often enough that have impacts for the rest of us. This is not meant to deteiorate into a petty list of greivances, which is why I also did not add 4. I agree to dress up on formal nights.

 

But it is meant to be a possible remedy to really important passenger behavior choices that do have material impact on the safe and healthy functioning of our mutually shared ship.

No need, really, for HAL to have passengers sign on to any code of civil behavior ... when one books a HAL cruise, one agrees to the terms of HAL's Contract, a legally binding document. While the Contract may not mention, specifically, the issues you list as items #1 and #2 ... they are addressed in a general manner, along with the potential consequences, in paragraph #6 under Section A General Provisions (bolded red is mine, for emphasis). Further, there is clear signage onboard about these two issues, so HAL's enforcing the contract terms could prove unpleasant for those who cavalierly disregard HAL's posted policies:

 

cruise and cruisetour contract

 

HOLLAND AMERICA LINE

300 Elliott Avenue West

Seattle, WA 98119

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO PASSENGERS

THIS DOCUMENT IS A LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT BETWEEN YOU AND US …

IMPORTANT TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF CONTRACT - READ CAREFULLY BEFORE ACCEPTING

A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

6. Authority to Remove Passengers: We may reasonably determine that for your safety, the safety of the Ship or other means of transportation or the safety or comfort of other passengers or our employees, you be denied transportation either before or during the Cruise, Cruisetour or HAL Land Trip. By way of example, these would include situations where: (a) you are or become in such condition as to be unfit to travel or dangerous or obnoxious to other passengers or employees; (b) you are inadmissible under the immigration or other laws of any country included in the Cruise, Cruisetour or HAL Land Trip itinerary or fail at any time to possess required travel documents; or © you fail to abide by the rules or orders of the Master or other ship's officers. If transportation is denied after departure, you and your baggage may be landed or transported to any port or location that we select, without any resulting liability on our part.

[NordicPrince]

It's gotta be those Italians at Fincantieri! They're still working with the same sticks and stones they started out with in 1959:cool:

 

Ethnic jokes do not qualify as adult humor.

 

I am sure you would not appreciate it we dumped on the Dutch.

[Copper10-8]

Ethnic jokes do not qualify as adult humor.

 

I am sure you would not appreciate it we dumped on the Dutch.

 

Well. let me give you some help then. It's not an ethnic joke; it's sarcasm. Those same Italians have been building very nice ships through perfect engineering for 51 yrs:cool:

[SwissMyst]

Granted some passengers would still ignore this, but what about the passengers who do not really know and understand the consequences for these particular acts. I didn't know how inteconnected an open balcony door was to all those other cabins. Or realize that occasional funky smell can come when someone else up the line flushes ....rocks :confused: ... down the toilet up the line.

 

So how can those who need to know this, who would follow the requirements better (these are not really rules -- they are requirements before agreeing to board this ship and share this space with 1000 plus other passengers) get the message. I think they should address all three of these issues, short and sweet , at the lifeboat drill.

 

Just remind everyone when we are all together for the first time what the new ship environment demands that are different from land based vacation abodes. Get everyone to realize their cabins are interconnected and what they do with both the plumbing and the ventilation affects many other people and we are all in this together .

 

They do a good job on hand washing and lots of people "get it". They need to add these too -- or at least a special announcement to the verandah cabin passengers about the doors, but even the other passengers in inside and window cabins need to also know their problems with their cabins may in fact come from some of the surrounding verandahs and to watch out for this if they get to know their cabin neighbors.

 

Here too is another thought -- because HAL allows smoking in their cabins do some smokers in the verandah cabins leave their doors open to air them out and then cause these A/C problems around them?

 

There should be some sort of short video about all of this too that gets played at certain times and even before the first few shows, just like airline passengers get. We are all in this together and a little extra cruise protocol education can go a long way.

 

We sure don't like the consequences of any of these recurrent Big Three problems (hand-washing--balcony doors--waste disposal in toilets), so I think it could not be worse to get bombarded a little bit with some prevention messages. I know hearing the hand-washing announcements over and over again has made using the sanitizers now automatic behavior and just part of the ship board routine now.

 

Being asked to think about what people put down their toilets is a little less appealing, but I think this can be handled with some charm and humor to get the point across - particularly heightening the awareness about the differences being on a ship - some sort of "Now That You Are On a Ship and You Will Need To Do a Few Things Differently".

[DizzyDallasDi]

There should be some sort of short video about all of this too that gets played at certain times and even before the first few shows, just like airline passengers get. We are all in this together and a little extra cruise protocol education can go a long way.

 

You can't be serious!?!?!? What a festive and uplifiting opening act that would make. :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps the Captain's welcome aboard champagne toast would be another viable venue? The Chief Engineer could pronounce the do's and don'ts of proper toilet flushing, complete with a PowerPoint presentation containing graphic photos :eek: of the consequences of improper flushing techniques.

 

Then, the Hotel Manager could expound on the expected horrors when balcony doors are propped open. This would be accompanied by a few short passenger-made videos of sweat-soaked husbands and wives trying to dress for formal night in overheated cabins. Of course, these poor heat exhausted souls would eventually give up on donning the formal wear and opt for the more practical attire of shorts, tee-shirts, flip flops and ball caps to hide their wilted hair. :cool:

 

We should take note of the "overheated cabin" issue and never look down on those wearing such attire on formal nights ever again...they may have been victims of the dreaded "Veendam-like a/c catastrophe." ;) A public service announcement of this type may be the catalyst that changes the way people think about those who are improperly dressed on formal night....pity would be taken on them instead of contempt. :D

[Cinder Again]

I'm wondering if the Rotterdam's post dry Dock cruise and the complaints could be why the Westerdam did not go back into service immediately after it went through Dry Dock a few months later.... It did an empty cruise of the Med I believe....

 

Joanie

 

If that is the case, it's a good decision. There were so many angry people aboard, all of us CC'ers had to hide, since the staff told us people really thought we were critics and wanted to unload on us!