are HAL's ships faster than CCL's?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I see there is a cruise on HAL's Westerdam this winter going from FLL to their private island, (Half Moon Cay), Aruba, and Curacao.

 

It is only a 7 day cruise.

 

Wondering why CCL can't do a cruise like this?

 

Bill

[unfdoug]

Just guessing. People that are spending time in the ports arent spending money on the ship.

[falkcor]

no, not really.

 

and in fact, a good percentage of HAL ships are variants of the same design that carnival employs, especially spirit class derivatives.

 

the majority of the time, ships for any line, and any itinerary are sailing at far less than maximum speed.

 

so, in a lot of ways, it's not as much a question of 'how fast' a ship is, but rather 'how creative' or 'how cost effective' a cruise line is in establishing said itinerary.

 

for the most part, carnival is 'not very creative', and 'largely cost effective' in planning their itineraries.

 

you don't see many 'creative' itineraries, and some 'mediocre' itineraries, from carnival, for the same reason :D:rolleyes:

[falkcor]

I see there is a cruise on HAL's Westerdam this winter going from FLL to their private island, (Half Moon Cay), Aruba, and Curacao.

 

btw, just wanted to add that carnival also calls on half moon cay, as overall it's owned by the carnival corporation (which owns HAL)... some ships that call there off the top of my head are carnival pride, destiny, fascination...

 

and also, fuel consumption comes into play in how 'fiscally efficient' they are, and carnival doesn't make very long hauls between stops if they can help it, and 'cruise' in between, just like most other mass market cruise lines and itineraries. hal is a bit more 'creative' or 'less cost efficient' in that regard, sometimes. :)

[Sargent_Schultz]

i was thinking yes, HAL ships are much faster - faster to sleep, that is. ;)

 

especially when a "private" island is involved, and one that is "owned" by a cruise line, why would or should Carnival Corp compete against itself?

[harryfat1]

Actually add Princess to your list as well as they are sailing the similar route in winter 2011 with Crown Princess. Only difference is they stop at Princess’ own Private Island (Princess Cays) instead of Half Moon Cay.

 

Considering they are all owned by the same parent company, Carnival, it’s no coincidence the new route is taking shape for both companies.

 

My best guess is that more repeat cruisers are on HAL and Princess than Carnival, which tends to attract many new comers. So for HAL and Princess, they need to have “something new” to their sailings to bring the repeat cruisers back.

 

Keep in mind that Princess has no new ships between 2008 and 2013 when their next generation of mega ship is coming out and HAL has no ships on order until the recession is over. So each cruise line needs new routes and/or innovations within the line to bring people back if they don’t have the “WOW” me new ship to do so.

 

This itinerary accomplishes that goal by taking cruiser to island that previously was only available on the southern Caribbean route where you have to fly to San Juan to start the cruise. But the new route lets you start in FLL.

 

That’s the boring answer. The more fun answer is we need to do a drag test between 3 ship lines to see which one is actually faster…

[falkcor]

Just guessing. People that are spending time in the ports arent spending money on the ship.

 

and you created and host 'cruise radio' :eek:

[manmtnmike]

I would say all Hal's ships are faster than Carnival's Splendor:p

[luckycruzer]

dosent matter..it is the dollar bottom line for fuel usage..if Captain makes good time/ports on time..and is under fuel budget..Cpat makes bonus' for that. Seas pay a good part in the speed/as well as time using same..alll about the dollar(s)

[golfadj]

I do like that itinerary though.

[*Mach*]

Speed = economics

As the folks at Carnival have attempted to keep cruising affordable by not adding the fuel surcharge some areas have suffered. As an example, later arrivals and earlier departures from some ports to allow the ships to sail at reduced speeds, Progreso and Cozumel come readily to mind.

Carnival took a $128 million dollar hit on fuel charges by not resorting to the surcharge. I think it's a fair trade off...

:)

[golfadj]

Speed = economics

 

As the folks at Carnival have attempted to keep cruising affordable by not adding the fuel surcharge some areas have suffered. As an example, later arrivals and earlier departures from some ports to allow the ships to sail at reduced speeds, Progreso and Cozumel come readily to mind.

 

Carnival took a $128 million dollar hit on fuel charges by not resorting to the surcharge. I think it's a fair trade off...

 

:)

 

 

Mach I understand but getting a little bored with same islands already. Wish they would add more 8-10 day cruises so they can go to new places in Caribbean.

 

We have been doing mostly 8 day ones lately but running out of places to go. If we have to fly to go on a cruise we would go to Europe and at that point would have to very reluctantly give up Carnival for those.

[*Mach*]

Mach I understand but getting a little bored with same islands already. Wish they would add more 8-10 day cruises so they can go to new places in Caribbean.

 

We have been doing mostly 8 day ones lately but running out of places to go. If we have to fly to go on a cruise we would go to Europe and at that point would have to very reluctantly give up Carnival for those.

 

 

There are some new itineraries in the works. The problem is that it can take a few years to put these things together. First, you have to acquire space at all of the ports that will fit the range/speed of the ship. Second, you have to put together shore excursions and this isn't as simple as it sounds. Occasionally, there simply aren't acceptable excursions available and they have to be cultivated. If there are excursions available they have to be vetted and experienced by Carnival staff. Next, can the infrastructure support 3 or 4000 passengers?? Buses... cabs, etc have to be available. Is it a tender or a docking port? Carnival is really trying to avoid tendering as it can be very problematic and spotty.

Of course, there's a ton more that goes into sailing to new ports of call but I think you get the idea that it's a pretty complex process.

Remember when the Ecstasy was forced to make an itinerary change due to a tropical storm about a month ago? They decided to call on Veracruz only to find that dollars weren't welcome and no bank would exchange dollars for pesos. That really limits the amount of activities to participate in!! It's that kind of speed bump that might take six months or so to iron out.

:)

[golfadj]

There are some new itineraries in the works. The problem is that it can take a few years to put these things together. First, you have to acquire space at all of the ports that will fit the range/speed of the ship. Second, you have to put together shore excursions and this isn't as simple as it sounds. Occasionally, there simply aren't acceptable excursions available and they have to be cultivated. If there are excursions available they have to be vetted and experienced by Carnival staff. Next, can the infrastructure support 3 or 4000 passengers?? Buses... cabs, etc have to be available. Is it a tender or a docking port? Carnival is really trying to avoid tendering as it can be very problematic and spotty.

 

Of course, there's a ton more that goes into sailing to new ports of call but I think you get the idea that it's a pretty complex process.

 

Remember when the Ecstasy was forced to make an itinerary change due to a tropical storm about a month ago? They decided to call on Veracruz only to find that dollars weren't welcome and no bank would exchange dollars for pesos. That really limits the amount of activities to participate in!! It's that kind of speed bump that might take six months or so to iron out.

 

:)

 

Thanks for the info. Do you think they will offer more cruises in excess of 8 days or is it just a matter of looking at other ports closer to Florida that they might offer in the future?

[jimbo5544]

There was some discussion (actually heard this first hand from a Carnival senior management employee) of potentially expanding some ships home ports (other than the ones we have now) further south, which could extend range and variety of ports as well.

[big_duck]

Thanks for the info. Do you think they will offer more cruises in excess of 8 days or is it just a matter of looking at other ports closer to Florida that they might offer in the future?

 

Cruises in excess of 8 days is not their metier. That is what they have Princess and HAL for.

[sharecruises]

Miracle is doing that same cruise on some dates from Ft Lauderdale

 

I think the Spirit class ships were built to cruise faster, more like the Hal ships

 

I would like to see some 10, 11 , 12 night cruises to south caribbean from south florida on Carnival

[*Mach*]

Thanks for the info. Do you think they will offer more cruises in excess of 8 days or is it just a matter of looking at other ports closer to Florida that they might offer in the future?

 

 

From what I've been told (now, mind you I've also been told that we'll have five ships in Houston/Galveston...) we can expect to see more nine day voyages but not a ton beyond that. The reasoning is that the longest voyages sell the slowest... tough for folks to get a few weeks off in a row I guess.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we saw more variety of cruise lengths from the current homeports... a five day followed by a nine day followed by a seven day, etc...

:)

[lettienets]

..........

Remember when the Ecstasy was forced to make an itinerary change due to a tropical storm about a month ago? They decided to call on Veracruz only to find that dollars weren't welcome and no bank would exchange dollars for pesos. That really limits the amount of activities to participate in!! It's that kind of speed bump that might take six months or so to iron out.

 

:)

I stopped at Veracruz on a Hal ship and it was a really nice stop. We were told they were looking at adding it as a regular port stop but it never happened. There was lots to see in town and there were excursions for us too. I wonder what happened. And the port itself is very attractive. I think the port probably makes way more as a working port for mexiaco rather than cruise ships. But I would go back.

[*Mach*]

I stopped at Veracruz on a Hal ship and it was a really nice stop. We were told they were looking at adding it as a regular port stop but it never happened. There was lots to see in town and there were excursions for us too. I wonder what happened. And the port itself is very attractive. I think the port probably makes way more as a working port for mexiaco rather than cruise ships. But I would go back.

 

 

Carnival has diverted to Veracruz in the past with great results. I think that Mexico's new law to attempt to eliminate money laundering is at the root of the problem the Ecstasy folks had...

You're right about the port, however. It is highly industrial.

:)

[fireofficer5]

CCL is a entry level line.

It has traditionally sailed at a slower speeds between ports.

[golfadj]

If a 9 day cruise from S Florida allowed us to go further south and see new ports that would be great.

[richstowe]

O K - Someone has to ask. How much does it actually cost to cruise faster or to ask the same question ,

how much does Carnival save by sailing slower?

Are fuel costs a large part of total expenses.

 

I guess what I really want to know is how much it saves Carnival to shorten shore stops to save money.

[*Mach*]

O K - Someone has to ask. How much does it actually cost to cruise faster or to ask the same question ,

how much does Carnival save by sailing slower?

Are fuel costs a large part of total expenses.

 

I guess what I really want to know is how much it saves Carnival to shorten shore stops to save money.

 

 

Consider that at 'cruise' speed a Conquest Class ship burns about one gallon of fuel to travel about 60 feet. At reduced speeds the hydrodynamic drag is considerably less and I'm sure it saves a fair amount of fuel...

:)

[TVMet]

I agree with all of the earlier posts. We did an 8-day on the Carnival Legend out of FLL in 2006 to Barbadoes, Martinique, and St. Maarten. It was over Thanksgiving week 2003 and before the price of fuel went sky high. The Carnival Legend was brand new, we had to really move to get all the way down there and back, even in an 8 day cruise.

 

I was surprised at the large number of experienced travelers. Many I talked to said, "we've done all of the other Caribbean islands and many cruises, we wanted to try something different." The demographics were totally non-Carnival. I thought I was on a HAL ship. The bars/lounges were "dead" at night. While standing in line for lunch on the Lido, one 60-something guy started talking to me, he was upset with the lack of service and amenities on Carnival compared to what he was to on Celebrity and HAL. I ask him why he chose a Carnival cruise and he said, "well, it was the best price." Oh my.

 

All in all, a great cruise for the family and me, and an interesting cruising experience for sure.