HAL strategy wrong? Go upmarket, better than going down market?

[HappyInVan]

Happy, I have to agree completely with you. In fact, after the mediocre service and downright bad food on our cruise in August on the Eurodam...... But I don't see us ever paying that full HAL price again, at least not until they take a hard look at their current product.

 

 

Tahoetraveler,

 

 

I am in complete agreement. I'm open to a good deal to an interesting destination. But, it doesn't have to be on HAL. I'm just tired of scrounging for eatable food, while observing the signs of stress on the passengers and the service staff.

 

 

Looks like its time to close this thread after 70 posts. Thanks to all who have contributed. Special thanks to the ones with industry and management input. Above all, thanks for a civil discourse.

 

 

I do hope that there are leaders in HAL management who will read this thread and get a gut reaction. Listening to knowledgeable customers is very different from reading a marketing analysis.

 

 

There lies the difference between someone like Steve Jobs and the management robots that ran Apple into the ground.

 

 

Just remember that we had an interesting conversation about strategy, quality and the future. That's a little different from the usual stuff in this forum.

[RuthC]

I specifically remember how soon after that announcement Royal Cruise Line bit the dust. Their misfortune was HAL's gain. We got the Prinsendam!

May I make an important correction here:

It was Royal Viking Line which was the source of the Prinsendam, and which "bit the dust", as you say. Royal Cruise Line was a different cruiseline, which "bit the dust" later on.

Neither should be confused with Royal Caribbean Cruise Line (although I do see that line erroneously referred to as Royal every once in a while).

[tomc]

Royal, Royal, Royal. What is this, the House of Windsor over in England?

[casamariposa]

Mea culpa, Ruth. You are absolutely correct. It was Royal Viking Line, and I should have remembered that since I sailed several times on its nice, small ships. It was a lovely cruise line, but they didn't have bread pudding!

[LMB01]

Happy, I have to agree completely with you. In fact, after the mediocre service and downright bad food on our cruise in August on the Eurodam, we have booked a Regent 7-day cruise to the Caribbean next month. And before everyone starts talking about how Regent is so expensive and not affordable for most, keep in mind that the lowest balcony cabin on the ship sold for $500pp a day...and this includes airfare to FLL, all shore excursions, all the wine, liquor, soda and bottled water you care to drink, all specialty restaurants, all tips and all taxes. The only thing you might pay extra for is the spa and any premium wines.

 

When we first started cruising with HAL, the thing that impressed us the most was the service. After this last cruise, I'm afraid I cannot say that anymore. I am hoping that Regent is tremendously better. If not, we will probably return to HAL...but only for one of those last minute, el-cheapo deals (where we will NOT complain about not getting an upgrade, and we will NOT be wearing shorts and baseball caps in the dining room, and we will NOT be drunken fools lowering the anchor while the ship is underway). But I don't see us ever paying that full HAL price again, at least not until they take a hard look at their current product.

 

We too are looking at Regent as we feel the quality of HAL has declined in the few years we've been sailing them. The nightly happy hour crowd on our last cruise was representative of the passengers now filling the ships. I don't have an issue paying $300pp per day for a nice suite and quality product but we just aren't seeing on HAL right now.

[m steve]

there are definalely better lines to sail than HAL but for the price I think they deliver a very good product and never have had a problem with the food. Some items are not to my liking and I don't order them. After 7 HAL cruises I am usually satisfied with most things and if something isn't right, I note it on my comment sheet or talk to a person in charge of that area. I guess it's like choosing a resort. A Hilton or W or Sheraton can deliver a very good experience but it's not a Ritz Carlton or 4 Seasons and the cost is a lot less. I surely would like to stay in the last 2 or sail on Silversea or Cunard 1st class but I can't.

[TahoeTraveler]

We too are looking at Regent as we feel the quality of HAL has declined in the few years we've been sailing them. The nightly happy hour crowd on our last cruise was representative of the passengers now filling the ships. I don't have an issue paying $300pp per day for a nice suite and quality product but we just aren't seeing on HAL right now.

The interesting thing is that if you take away all the things Regent includes in that $500pp per day charge (airfare, liquor and wine, sodas and bottled water, tips, taxes, specialty restaurants, and all shore excursions), you will find that you can get pretty darn close to that $300pp per day you quoted for HAL. Of course, that is probably for one of the suites on HAL...but that is comparable to what you'd be booking on Regent (they consider all their cabins "suites" as there are no inside cabins and all are very large with large sitting areas). I think this dissatisfaction with HAL comes more from the people who usually book the suites, as they do not see the value for the extra money paid. As I've said before, I will consider booking HAL again, but only at rock bottom prices (such as the ones advertised a few months ago, when they were offering an SC suite on the Oosterdam for half what we paid for that same cabin 4 years ago). Then at least I will feel that I got what I paid for.

[LMB01]

The interesting thing is that if you take away all the things Regent includes in that $500pp per day charge (airfare, liquor and wine, sodas and bottled water, tips, taxes, specialty restaurants, and all shore excursions), you will find that you can get pretty darn close to that $300pp per day you quoted for HAL. Of course, that is probably for one of the suites on HAL...but that is comparable to what you'd be booking on Regent (they consider all their cabins "suites" as there are no inside cabins and all are very large with large sitting areas). I think this dissatisfaction with HAL comes more from the people who usually book the suites, as they do not see the value for the extra money paid. As I've said before, I will consider booking HAL again, but only at rock bottom prices (such as the ones advertised a few months ago, when they were offering an SC suite on the Oosterdam for half what we paid for that same cabin 4 years ago). Then at least I will feel that I got what I paid for.

 

Agree! We got an SC on the Oosterdam for $150 pp last year. That price we will do but with the knowledge that those prices attrack a different crowd.

[TahoeTraveler]

Agree! We got an SC on the Oosterdam for $150 pp last year. That price we will do but with the knowledge that those prices attrack a different crowd.

Ah, but with a beautiful SC (my favorite cabin, by the way), you have such a wonderful place to retreat to when you need to get away from those crowds!!!

[HappyInVan]

Just discovered that Silversea is asking 110% or 125% single supplement on some cruises. Bring it on!

 

 

http://www.silversea.com/specialoffers/?specialoffer=7707

 

 

The 9-day Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA to Bridgetown, Barbados cruise starts at $400 per day for the Vista suites (240 sf). It's the Silver Cloud (16k tons, 292 guests to 222 crew).

 

 

Compares favorably to the AA Deluxe Veranda OV (230 sf) on the Prinsendam or BB Veranda Suites (290 sf) on the Ryndam.

 

 

http://www.silversea.com/destinations/plan-voyage/?voyage=1106&tab=fares

Edited December 9, 2010 by HappyInVan

[m steve]

the cost is significant especially getting a veranda cabin. And not paying airfare to Barbados which usually rums over $500 pp.

[Atomica]

Just discovered that Silversea is asking 110% or 125% single supplement on some cruises. Bring it on!

 

 

http://www.silversea.com/specialoffers/?specialoffer=7707

 

 

The 9-day Fort Lauderdale, Florida, USA to Bridgetown, Barbados cruise starts at $400 per day for the Vista suites (240 sf). It's the Silver Cloud (16k tons, 292 guests to 222 crew).

 

 

Compares favorably to the AA Deluxe Veranda OV (230 sf) on the Prinsendam or BB Veranda Suites (290 sf) on the Ryndam.

 

 

http://www.silversea.com/destinations/plan-voyage/?voyage=1106&tab=fares

 

My thoughts exactly. Plus, all beverages and gratuities are included too. Many sailings offer free airfare. Not a bad choice for those looking to upgrade... (but then, I'm biased - we board Silver Spirit in two days!)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

My thoughts exactly. Plus, all beverages and gratuities are included too. Many sailings offer free airfare. Not a bad choice for those looking to upgrade... (but then, I'm biased - we board Silver Spirit in two days!)

Aaron, I have a feeling you will truly be WOWed and be a bit spoiled. Enjoy :)

[Jade13]

 

Why is it that really great cruise lines like Seabourn, Sea Dream, Silver Sea, and Crystal have NEVER made a penny of profit in their entire histories?

Because the cruising public is more interested in Quantity over Quality.

Everybody claims that they want the quality, but when it comes time to ante up, lowest price always wins.

 

Thank goodness that the owners of the truly great cruise lines have such large egos and large pocketbooks they can continue to operate at a loss.

 

Is this true that these lines are unprofitable? So, they are all privately owned?

[ab0si]

Is this true that these lines are unprofitable? So, they are all privately owned?

 

Crystal is owned by Nippon Yusen Kaisha which I think is owned by Mitsubishi. At any rate, it is something like the 10th largest shipping company. Crystal certainly doesn't make money for them.

[Atomica]

Aaron, I have a feeling you will truly be WOWed and be a bit spoiled. Enjoy :)

 

Thank you, Lisa! I'm sorry to hear your recent Mariner of the Seas cruise wasn't up to snuff - though I do think you'll have to plan a Crystal voyage ;)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Thank you, Lisa! I'm sorry to hear your recent Mariner of the Seas cruise wasn't up to snuff - though I do think you'll have to plan a Crystal voyage ;)

Oh I would love to do that and who knows maybe but for 2011 There will be 28 days on a ship and they will all be HAL :D

[HappyInVan]

Is this true that these lines are unprofitable? So, they are all privately owned?

 

 

Yes, they are all privately owned. Crystal's shareholders are very strong.

 

 

On the other hand, an investment company (Apollo Investments) owns Oceania and Regent presumably as profit-centers. It's my suspicion that Regent is the weaker company and that Apollo won't rescue Regent/Oceania if they are under attack.

 

 

Oceania and Regent operate ships in the 30,000-60000 ton range.

 

 

Silversea is owned by a family company out of Monaco. It has quietly expanded over the years. It's largest ship is Prinsendam-sized.

 

 

Azamara is owned by RCCL. Cunard and Seabourne come under the Carnival umbrella.

 

 

Cunard operates ships with 2,000+ passengers while Seaborne caters to the 200-passenger market. Oddly, Carnival has no premium line between the 200 and 2000 passenger ships!

[Texas Tillie]

 

 

Cunard operates ships with 2,000+ passengers while Seaborne caters to the 200-passenger market. Oddly, Carnival has no premium line between the 200 and 2000 passenger ships!

 

Seabourn has 2 new 450 passenger ships with another scheduled for 2011.

[AFuncruiser]

I had a wonderful cruise from Auckland to LA on The beautiful Regent Seven Seas, where I had a great suite. I enjoyed all the amenities, luxuries, and service that money can buy. The Regent Seven Seas was a ship of true ladies and gentlemen; my bridge partner was a retired General. It is hard to compare Regent's sophisticated passengers, crew and service with HAL, Princess or Celebrity’s.

My cruise with Regent was a wonderful once in a lifetime experience.

I would rather wait patiently behind walkers, scooters and canes. Tolerate over worked slow service dinner staff on ships in dire need of refurbishment than pay the price for true luxury cruising. I would rather sail HAL for two or three cruises for the same price of one truly luxury cruise.

To each his own..

Dennis

Jacksonville, Fl

428 days at sea

36 cruises

[HappyInVan]

Seabourn has 2 new 450 passenger ships with another scheduled for 2011.

 

 

Absolutely correct! The Sojourn and Odyssey. How do you like the ships?

 

 

The new ships are $220m each. For a fraction of the price, the Ryndam could be converted/modernized into a 800 passenger ship (starting $250 per nite).

 

 

It means that Carnival still has a big gap in their premium line up between 500 to 2000 passengers.

[hammybee]

 

IMO, the decline of HAL stems from the motivation of senior HAL management. I suspect that HAL management (same for the other subsidiaries of Carnival HQ) are being compensated for the amount of $ profits. /quote]

 

I must sail with a different HAL. The one I sail is not in decline compared to my first cruises with HAL. I also pay substantially less for a better product than I did when I first began cruising.

 

Everyone, everywhere is compensated based on the profitability of their company. If the company can't make a buck, it will not be in business for long. If a company cannot /will not adapt to change, it's not going to survive.

 

Perhaps HAL could reorg as a 501c3 organization. Do you think the IRS would view cruise ship passengers who want more and don't want to pay for it as a chairity?

 

There are so many options for cruises. If HAL no longer meets one's requirements, why not pay more and get more, elsewhere?

[TahoeTraveler]

 

 

Perhaps HAL could reorg as a 501c3 organization. Do you think the IRS would view cruise ship passengers who want more and don't want to pay for it as a chairity?

 

There are so many options for cruises. If HAL no longer meets one's requirements, why not pay more and get more, elsewhere?

I don't want more...I want what I have paid for. And I hardly think that our paying over $14,000 for two cabins on an 11-day Northern Europe cruise last August counts as a charity case. I think the whole point of this thread is that many, myself included, ARE now looking at the other options out there, because we have seen a decline in service. Just for fun I ran the numbers for the Regent cruise we're booked on in January, compared to the comparable HAL cruise for the same type of cabin, ports and number of days...turns out we'll be paying approximately $650 each extra to cruise on Regent, when you take into account the included tours, tips, wine, etc. So yes, we're paying more, and will get more elsewhere. But not nearly as much more as I think some people believe.

[Jemima]

I must sail with a different HAL. The one I sail is not in decline compared to my first cruises with HAL. I also pay substantially less for a better product than I did when I first began cruising.

QUOTE]

 

I must sail that same different HAL. We've sailed on HAL for 8 years and overall HAL is better today than it was eight years ago.

[HappyInVan]

I must sail that same different HAL. We've sailed on HAL for 8 years and overall HAL is better today than it was eight years ago.

 

Excellent.

 

For our education, could you tell us where HAL is better today?