Children falling overboard

[Cuizer2]

Lets be real honest and judgemental (sometimes appropriate). Without even knowing all the facts this must be bad parenting because, otherwise, it could never happen. A 14 month old (or any young child) should never be left alone on a balcony and should be constantly watched. If the toddler was able to climb to the top of the rail and fall (unlikely) then the child was not properly supervised. If an adult dropped the child this would also not be good parenting.

 

Hank

 

1) The child was not on a balcony.

 

2) The child did not climb over the rail.

 

3) The child was on the deck above the pool and fell through the railing to the pool deck.

 

4) As long as we are being judgmental, what is your opinion of people who make judgements without knowing all the facts? In my opinion it must be bad posting, because it is a very irresponsible thing to do.

[Capt_BJ]

what are the odds a child will suffer serious or worse injury at a zoo . . .

[Hlitner]

1) The child was not on a balcony.

 

2) The child did not climb over the rail.

 

3) The child was on the deck above the pool and fell through the railing to the pool deck.

 

4) As long as we are being judgmental, what is your opinion of people who make judgements without knowing all the facts? In my opinion it must be bad posting, because it is a very irresponsible thing to do.

 

Not sure this changes much. No matter how you interpret the facts it still remains that a 14 month old toddler was not properly supervised. And we would point out that the news story posted here on Cruise Critic (under news) is titled "Toddler Falls from Cruise Ship Balcony" which would be an inaccurate heading. So to make you happy we will change the story to "Toddler Falls from Cruise Ship Pool Deck." But the end result is the same....and the cause is the same....inadequate supervision by the parents or caregiver.

 

Hank

[Cuizer2]

Not sure this changes much. No matter how you interpret the facts it still remains that a 14 month old toddler was not properly supervised. And we would point out that the news story posted here on Cruise Critic (under news) is titled "Toddler Falls from Cruise Ship Balcony" which would be an inaccurate heading. So to make you happy we will change the story to "Toddler Falls from Cruise Ship Pool Deck." But the end result is the same....and the cause is the same....inadequate supervision by the parents or caregiver.

 

Hank

 

You don't know the facts, yet you still insist on making judgement calls.

[Wylie Coyote]

Thank you everyone. I feel much better about it now. :)

 

I am not worried about my children climbing the railing and going over the top but I was a little concerned that they may be able to slip underneath.

 

My memories of the railing on my cruise 20 years ago were that of a wooden handrail on top with wire strung 3 or 4 times horizontally below (im not even sure if my memory is correct or if having 3 children in 19 months has turned my brain into custard LOL :D)

 

Once again, thank you. I hope you all have wonderful cruises.

 

Looking at you post...19 months and three kids, there must have been twins.

 

Congratulations...and your family will enjoy the cruise. One other item, there are most generally crew members on deck watching the children (and adults) and their horseplay. I do not know how many times I have heard a crew member ask the children to stop running on deck. I have never been on a cruise ship where young ones are actually able to look over the side of the ship.

 

Of course, there will be way too many other mothers and grandmothers (Fathers and G-Pas, too) who would not hesitate jumping into action if a child was in distress. :p

 

Have fun!

[johneeo]

You don't know the facts, yet you still insist on making judgement calls.

 

The facts are in.

 

A toddler fell from one deck to another, fact.

 

The toddler was not properly supervised, fact.

 

Adult error, fact.

[Cuizer2]

The facts are in.

 

A toddler fell from one deck to another, fact.

 

The toddler was not properly supervised, fact.

 

Adult error, fact.

 

Nothing has been confirmed - fact.

[johneeo]

Nothing has been confirmed - fact.

 

Yes it has, FACT.

 

You are wrong, FACT.

[Cuizer2]

Yes it has, FACT.

 

You are wrong, FACT.

 

Show me an official report. Otherwise, it is you that is wrong.

[johneeo]

Show me an official report.

 

Yeah, I'll get right on that.:rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile, could you get me an "official report" confirming your sanity?

[Cuizer2]

Yeah, I'll get right on that.:rolleyes:

 

Meanwhile, could you get me an "official report" confirming your sanity?

 

What, are you ten years old? If someone doesn't agree with you, you turn to personal attacks. Grow up.

 

There is no official report and we know from recent past experience that initial reports are often wrong, as was the one that said the child was on a balcony.

[johneeo]

What, are you ten years old? If someone doesn't agree with you, you turn to personal attacks. Grow up.

 

There is no official report and we know from recent past experience that initial reports are often wrong, as was the one that said the child was on a balcony.

 

That was not a personal attack. It was a response to your ludicrous demand for an "official report".

 

So, I see you can't produce the "official report" I requested, huh?

 

Don't take things so personally. And about growing up, I have found your argument to be about as juvenile an argument that I have seen on these boards, but I will not suggest you "grow up". I just accept that I might be in a conversation with someone that lacks maturity.

[Cuizer2]

That was not a personal attack. It was a response to your ludicrous demand for an "official report".

 

So, I see you can't produce the "official report" I requested, huh?

 

Don't take things so personally. And about growing up, I have found your argument to be about as juvenile an argument that I have seen on these boards, but I will not suggest you "grow up". I just accept that I might be in a conversation with someone that lacks maturity.

 

There is no official report, that is why I don't consider any of the facts confirmed. You don't know what the fact are, yet you are ready to jump to conclusions. The only official report you referred to is one referring to my sanity. That kind of come back is what I would expect from a ten year old.

[johneeo]

There is no official report, that is why I don't consider any of the facts confirmed. You don't know what the fact are, yet you are ready to jump to conclusions. The only official report you referred to is one referring to my sanity. That kind of come back is what I would expect from a ten year old.

 

My point that you cannot understand is about an "official report" .... any "official report". What the heck is an "official report".

 

My apologies that you found offense with me asking for an "official report" to confirm your sanity.

 

So, let me try this, can you provide me with an "official report" that the sun sets in the west?

 

Look, a toddler fell from one deck to another, can we agree on that, or do we really need an "official report"?:confused:

[Kartgv]

Hate to jump into your personal argument, maybe everyone else is off celebrating something on Saturday night. Have to agree with Johneeo on this one - there is NOT ONE scenario that I can think of that does not boil down to lack of parental supervision. How could a 1 year old, or even a 23 month old (as some seem insistent on claiming as a possibility - when your child was 23 months old, did you call him/her a 1 year old?) simply FALL OVER or THROUGH a ship's rail if the child was properly supervised? We are parents of 5, a grandparents of 8, and none of them could ever move faster than we could when they were that age - IF we were paying attention. For the parents' sake, I hope I'm wrong by some freak circumstance, but otherwise, they are ultimately responsible - the "buck stops here" when you are the parent.

[Eng23]

what are the odds a child will suffer serious or worse injury at a zoo . . .

Well that did happen this year at a zoo in Pittsburgh I believe. Mom was holding child on railing, Mom lost hold on child, child fell into wild African Dog exhibit, child mauled by wild dogs, child died.

[Eng23]

There is no official report, that is why I don't consider any of the facts confirmed. You don't know what the fact are, yet you are ready to jump to conclusions. The only official report you referred to is one referring to my sanity. That kind of come back is what I would expect from a ten year old.

Here, read this:

 

quote=orville99;36415182]PORT CANAVERAL, Fla. —

A cruise ship that left Port Canaveral Friday afternoon returned to the port after a young child was injured in a fall, officials said.

The Royal Caribbean ship Monarch of the Seas left Port Canaveral around 4:30 p.m. and was headed for the Bahamas.

Officials told WFTV that a 1-year-old child crawled through an 11th floor railing and fell to a balcony one floor below.

The ship turned around and headed back to port so the child could be taken to a hospital. Around 7:30 p.m. the child was airlifted to Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children in Orlando.

There is no word on the child's current condition.

Saturday morning Royal Caribbean issued a statement regarding the incident:

"On Friday, December 21, a 14-month-old guest from India traveling on Monarch of the Seas was injured in a fall. The guest was initially treated in our medical facility, but required additional and urgent medical attention that could only be provided in a hospital. Therefore, the ship turned around and returned to Port Canaveral, Florida, where we could debark the guest and their family so that the guest could receive urgent medical care.

 

Our Care Team is providing support and assistance to the guest’s family. Our thoughts are with their family, and we will continue to do our very best to assist them."

 

 

Is this official enough?

[NoobCruise]

My signature photo was our balcony on the Westerdam. Its solid sturdy plexiglass. No falling through the railing possible. I'm 5 ft 6 in and it came up to my rib cage. It would take some serious effort on the kids part and some bad parenting to fall over.

[celle]

My signature photo was our balcony on the Westerdam. Its solid sturdy plexiglass. No falling through the railing possible. I'm 5 ft 6 in and it came up to my rib cage. It would take some serious effort on the kids part and some bad parenting to fall over.

 

He didn't fall from a balcony. He fell from the pool deck (reported to have climbed through railings) onto a balcony on the deck below.

 

On one of the threads about this accident, someone has posted a picture of the railings on the pool deck. They're railings, not the solid plexiglass you are thinking of.

[Karysa]

Was alcohol or an all you can drink alcohol package purchased? I have seen plenty of people wasted prior to Bon voyage before these types of packages were offered but my educated guess is that even if this incident wasn't related to an unlimited alcohol package that we will be reading of many negative incidents in the future regarding children and adults alike due to the abuse of such a package.

[okgirl]

Here are some pics in case they help. Of course every ship is different, and there are even multiple types of railings on each ship.

 

 

This is the Norwegian Jewel. Some of the railings have vertical metal stiles like those directly behind my sister here. Others are like those on the far side of the stairs - waist level (or higher) plexiglass (?) so you can see through them but they're completely safe. Still others are like those at the right edge of the picture - plexiglass as high as your head, with narrow breaks so you can take pictures.

 

 

 

This is the RC Grandeur of the seas. Note how the railing tilts toward you. This will make it harder for the kids to climb. Also note the full height plexiglass on the right side of the photo.

 

 

 

This is my BIL with one of the little climbers. See - he's perfectly safe. :)

 

In the pic with the little boy you can see the edge of the deck and a little curb about 4 or 5 inches high that prevents your foot from just sliding off the deck.

 

That curb is along the edge of all open decks even the ones with metal cables as railings.

[Hlitner]

I am going to jump in with a controversial subject. We have spent forty years cruising (over 65 different ships) and love this form of travel. Our daughter took her first cruise at 5 and was Diamond with RCI before age 16 (she still loves cruising as an adult). For many years we have questioned the wisdom of cruising with very young children. Personally, we think taking kids under 2 (some cruise lines used to ban kids under 2) is not a very good decision...with perhaps Disney being the exception. A cruise ship is a tough environment for a toddler and their parents with many potential dangers and inconvenences. Yes, there are many who have had positive cruise experiences with their toddlers, but we have also seen many others who are miserable. We have also witinessed a family with 2 toddlers being tossed off a Princess cruise because the parents insisted on taking their toddlers into the pool (which then had to be drained) on 2 occassions. We have seen parents, with screaming babies, disrupt the dining rooms and even showrooms when they refuse to remove screaming babies from those venues. At the very least the parents of this latest toddler incident were not attentive enough to avoid a tragedy...and at worst they were negligent. But perhaps the cruise lines need to re-examine their policies regarding minimum age limits on ships.

 

Hank

[johneeo]

But perhaps the cruise lines need to re-examine their policies regarding minimum age limits on ships.

 

Hank

 

Are the cruise lines charging full fare for babies?

[NoobCruise]

My signature photo was our balcony on the Westerdam. Its solid sturdy plexiglass. No falling through the railing possible. I'm 5 ft 6 in and it came up to my rib cage. It would take some serious effort on the kids part and some bad parenting to fall over.

 

 

 

 

He didn't fall from a balcony. He fell from the pool deck (reported to have climbed through railings) onto a balcony on the deck below.

 

On one of the threads about this accident, someone has posted a picture of the railings on the pool deck. They're railings, not the solid plexiglass you are thinking of.

 

I had not read the whole thread so did not realize the conversation had turned to the 1 year old who fell on the Monarch. I was simply responding to the OP's question about if it was safe for a toddler to cruise and her request for pics. In the original post, she was asking a general question NOT specific to one cruiseline or specific to the Monarch. Some ships are far safer for little ones than others. The Westerdam has plexiglass or solid metal as railings, including on the pool decks. Even the top pool deck has plexiglass. Sorry about the red arrows on this pic. They're pointing to our balcony. But you can still see clearly the solid plexiglass surrounding the pool deck.

 

014 Our Balcony by Rescue-Diver, on Flickr

 

After reading a few more posts in this thread, I see it has turned pretty nasty. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP and her husband decide to never cruise!

[Cuizer2]

My point that you cannot understand is about an "official report" .... any "official report". What the heck is an "official report".

 

My apologies that you found offense with me asking for an "official report" to confirm your sanity.

 

So, let me try this, can you provide me with an "official report" that the sun sets in the west?

 

Look, a toddler fell from one deck to another, can we agree on that, or do we really need an "official report"?:confused:

 

An "official report" is one from people trained in investigation and actually do conduct the investigation. Not one from a bunch of lay people who are reporting what they heard, not what they actually witnessed. For example, remember how the first reports from Sandy Hook were wrong. Also, the initial report on this case was wrong (the child did not fall from the balcony). This is the reason hearsay testimony is not allowed in court.