Outrageous infant pricing.

[kchobbs]

Okay, rant mode on.

 

The OP did not ask for opinions on whether you want children on a cruise. They wanted to know why an infant was near to full price.

 

The answer has nothing to do with whether Princess wants or caters to kids. The answer is simple. A child of any age takes up one of a limited number of slots on a ship, regardless of the services they may or may not use. That is a slot Princess cannot sell to an adult, so the revenue should be close to a potential adult spot (in-line with 3rd person in cabin pricing - there are some efficiencies of scale that can be obtained with 3 in a cabin).

 

If this is the case then why is the pricing structure not the same for 3rd and 4th passengers as on Carnival and Hal, both which happen to be owned by the same company as Princess?

[OCruisers]

We used to think like you until we actually sailed with an infant. We sailed with our 11 month old back in December, and after that, I realized that it was fair. We quickly learned that catering to an infant is actually much more demanding than to adults, and the crew did a phenomenal job ensuring that we had a great cruise.

 

Our cabin steward was amazing cleaning and picking up after our son, impeccably tidying up the cabin (which would get way messier than when we traveled without our son).

 

You put this very nicely and TOTALLY agree with you!

[Loonbeam]

1> Princess is a separate company from Carnival and HAL, all three of which operate on their own, CCL is simply a holding company and other than profit targets, etc really has limited say in day to day operations.

 

2> Based on a quick back of napkin analysis on some sample routes, Carnival and HAL scale their per cabin pricing a little more to the first two people. I suppose it works out given whatever their average cabin load is. The target is average revenue per passenger point, how the line balances it is up to them. In addition, the rate for 3rd/4th person may be discounted to help fill ships but that rate discount may not apply to infants as there is an expected additional revenue source from teens and up (soda cards and the like).

 

Or was there a different policy aspect you are concerned with?

 

Okay, rant mode on.

 

The OP did not ask for opinions on whether you want children on a cruise. They wanted to know why an infant was near to full price.

 

The answer has nothing to do with whether Princess wants or caters to kids. The answer is simple. A child of any age takes up one of a limited number of slots on a ship, regardless of the services they may or may not use. That is a slot Princess cannot sell to an adult, so the revenue should be close to a potential adult spot (in-line with 3rd person in cabin pricing - there are some efficiencies of scale that can be obtained with 3 in a cabin).

 

If this is the case then why is the pricing structure not the same for 3rd and 4th passengers as on Carnival and Hal, both which happen to be owned by the same company as Princess?

[kchobbs]

1> Princess is a separate company from Carnival and HAL, all three of which operate on their own, CCL is simply a holding company and other than profit targets, etc really has limited say in day to day operations.

 

2> Based on a quick back of napkin analysis on some sample routes, Carnival and HAL scale their per cabin pricing a little more to the first two people. I suppose it works out given whatever their average cabin load is. The target is average revenue per passenger point, how the line balances it is up to them. In addition, the rate for 3rd/4th person may be discounted to help fill ships but that rate discount may not apply to infants as there is an expected additional revenue source from teens and up (soda cards and the like).

 

Or was there a different policy aspect you are concerned with?

 

 

You are right in the fact that the OP wanted to know why the cost of an infant is near the same price as an adult. I would like to also know why

because in fact I prefer to cruise with Princess over Carnival. I have priced out hundreds of cruises for our family and time after time when the base price for two adults is comparable between Princess, Carnival and Hal, I am disappointed to find out the total cost of when factoring in the price of a third and fourth passenger. Ask any travel agent and they can confirm this. It is strictly a policy of Princess to charge closer to normal rates for third and 4th passenger than that of Carnival and Hal.

[blueridgemama]

We used to think like you until we actually sailed with an infant. We sailed with our 11 month old back in December, and after that, I realized that it was fair. We quickly learned that catering to an infant is actually much more demanding than to adults, and the crew did a phenomenal job ensuring that we had a great cruise.

 

Our cabin steward was amazing cleaning and picking up after our son, impeccably tidying up the cabin (which would get way messier than when we traveled without our son).

 

About meals, our son ate from the buffet and the kid's menu during the entire cruise, so we got our money's worth there as well. We tipped our waiters extra because they had to clean up messes normally not caused by adults after our little guy had caused chaos at our table and surrounding areas.

 

Our son participated in quite a few activities during the week aboard the ship. He also went on shore excursions free of charge. Overall, it was a great experience and we felt that what the cruise line charged was more than appropriate.

 

 

Why should the cabin stewart or the waiters have to clean up/pick up after your son?? There is a feeling of entitlement with parents who leave messes in public places ie: restaurants caused by their children. If your child throws food on the floor you should be picking it up yourself within reason, not leaving it there for someone else to clean up.:( I do not consider myself an old geezer but I certainly hope that I am not seated anywhere near a child that causes chaos in the dining room:(

[Loonbeam]

I can look into it, but my suspicion is that at least for Carnival overall they may book more 3rd and 4th persons and thus can spread the rates out a little. Or their ancilliary revenue per passenger is higher. I don't have the level of contact at Carnival I do at Princess, and have none at HAL. But I'll ask.

 

1> Princess is a separate company from Carnival and HAL, all three of which operate on their own, CCL is simply a holding company and other than profit targets, etc really has limited say in day to day operations.

 

2> Based on a quick back of napkin analysis on some sample routes, Carnival and HAL scale their per cabin pricing a little more to the first two people. I suppose it works out given whatever their average cabin load is. The target is average revenue per passenger point, how the line balances it is up to them. In addition, the rate for 3rd/4th person may be discounted to help fill ships but that rate discount may not apply to infants as there is an expected additional revenue source from teens and up (soda cards and the like).

 

Or was with?

 

 

You are right in the fact that the OP wanted to know why the cost of an infant is near the same price as an adult. I would like to also know why

because in fact I prefer to cruise with Princess over Carnival. I have priced out hundreds of cruises for our family and time after time when the base price for two adults is comparable between Princess, Carnival and Hal, I am disappointed to find out the total cost of when factoring in the price of a third and fourth passenger. Ask any travel agent and they can confirm this. It is strictly a policy of Princess to charge closer to normal rates for third and 4th passenger than that of Carnival and Hal.

[LoveThisCruisingThing]

;)Personally I wish they'd charge double for infants. I am quite tired of going to the diningroom, and hearing screaming and crying. They should have a child free area for those of us that are on a cruise just to relax and enjoy quiet meals in the dinningroom. And before you all start to flame me, if I screamed and cried in the dinningroom, they's ask me to leave. And Princess policy way back was no passengers under 6 years old. There are many other cruiselines that cater to families and give discounts for them, so there are other choices.

 

In total agreement.

[Cruisin' Chick]

I seem to remember getting the third person rate for my daughter on all of our cruises (Carnival and Princess) except for our first one on Princess -- and that time we got a friends and family discount.

 

I think parents can be considerate by being prepared to remove a screaming (or otherwise noisy) child from a dining room, restaurant, movie, show, whatever. But many parents are a bit tone deaf about this (for example, whenever we go to my daughter's music school recitals, the director always reminds everyone beforehand to turn off cell phones, try not to cough, remove any noisy small children as that will distract the performer and also affect the DVD recording -- but of course, you always hear a cell phone going off and a bored toddler crying).

 

On our last cruise, it wasn't the kids who were causing problems. There were a lot of rude senior citizens (and I heard this from some of their peers who said they have never seen such a bad bunch of passengers on a cruiseship).

[caribill]

Another consideration could be that while an infant will consume little food, they will not gamble, buy drinks, take excursions, etc.

 

 

But they will be charged the daily "auto-tip" fee.

[c-cruise]

I also wish Princess would reduce their prices for children such as the other lines, but I think they intentionaly do not as they are not trying to cater to families with young kids. Try Carnival or Hal if taking kids. My wife and I prefer Princess, but the 3rd and 4th pricing is much more if going on Princess vs Carnival or HAL. We have taken Carnival twice because of this and may do so in the future. We basically could get a balcony for the four of us on Carnival vs an inside room on Princess. Carnival does have an excellent Camp Carnival program for the kids once they are at least 2 years old. Princess it is three years old and up.

 

This mirrors what we have found as well. We enjoy cruising with Princess, but have mostly stayed with HAL since our kids were born because the 3rd person rates are generally much better. Our 4yr old has been on HAL 4 times and Princess once with two more HAL cruises booked.

 

NCL also generally has good rates for 3rd/4ths and discounts even more for children under 2 years of age. Never tried MSC, but kids sail free with them.

[SummerW]

Weighing in...

 

We depart tomorrow on our cruise with our 6-month-old.

 

We are fully prepared to dine in our suite if he's fussy and booked a suite so that we could do that. If he squawks in a public area, we leave. double time. Our kid travels a lot -- he has flown 3 round-trips now and taken a 28-hour (each way) train trip, and he has done a few road trips. He has spent over 25% of his life away from home.

 

We keep Starbucks gift cards handy to give to anyone who might be bothered by his presence. So far, only one person took one and only when we insisted, because he wouldn't be able to lean his seat back in front of the baby's car seat on the plane. We're bringing a bottle of wine for our neighbors in the cabins on either side, as a preemptive gesture, just in case they are bothered. If he cries on a plane or in our cabin loud enough for the neighbors to hear there's not a lot we can do in these situations, which is why we try to respond with some small gesture to compensate our neighbors.

 

So far he has only fussed on one leg of a flight, when he happened to be teething, and it was not for any significant duration. He's a pretty good baby -- and we do what we can to plan our trips to ensure that he will be happy. We bring toys to occupy him, I nurse him during takeoff and landing or whenever he seems restless, we hand off between mommy and daddy as needed, etc.

 

All this being said, we know that not everyone has this level of situational awareness. On one of our recent flights there was a mommy traveling alone with a 2-year-old who brought her on the plane with no toys, no books, nothing but a snack and some water. The mommy flipped through the SkyMall to try to entertain the child. Needless to say, we did not have to worry about being "the people with the baby", because she got to have that distinction. Another parent passenger gave her a lollypop to soothe the little girl during our descent, when she was obviously uncomfortable.

 

I agree that Princess most likely charges adult prices for 3rd and 4ths, because mainly adults occupy these slots. If a baby does, it's taking a potential slot that might otherwise be filled by an adult, who would be buying alcoholic drinks, going on excursions and burning their money in the casino.

 

Our baby doesn't eat solids yet (we chose to hold off until after the cruise, to make things simpler), so his demands may be a little less than other infants, but the typical 6-month-old and older child is eating solids and probably doing so in a pretty messy way. So babies do have some higher demands and some lower demands than adult passengers. I doubt Princess charges more for 3rds and 4ths to deliberately discourage babies and children from being onboard.

[shoreham01]

I think possibly Princess have learnt a valuable lesson as last year on one of the round Britain cruises there were reports on this forum of there being 500 children on the Crown. I think if my memory serves me well there were 600 on another cruise. Now I am not a child hater but my child bearing days are long gone and I want to go on holiday to enjoy myself not to endure hundreds of kids running around screaming. I believe the reason there were so many children on that cruise was that they were offering free child places. Unfortunately for them they may have lost a few big spending regular Princess passengers after they sailed on that cruise and others like it. Most people love children, but just can't stand noisy misbehaved ones where the parents just let them do what they want. I do blame the parents 100% for not teaching their children respect for others.

[stoneharborlady]

;)Personally I wish they'd charge double for infants. I am quite tired of going to the diningroom, and hearing screaming and crying. They should have a child free area for those of us that are on a cruise just to relax and enjoy quiet meals in the dinningroom. And before you all start to flame me, if I screamed and cried in the dinningroom, they's ask me to leave. And Princess policy way back was no passengers under 6 years old. There are many other cruiselines that cater to families and give discounts for them, so there are other choices.

 

I disagree about charging double, and I dont believe that was really meant, but I am in agreement about crying and screaming during dinner. Parents should immediately remove a noisy child or baby from the DR, as other diners should be able to eat and enjoy a meal in peace. If the child wont sit quietly, there are other dining options for the parents, the buffet, or room service.

[Coral]

I think possibly Princess have learnt a valuable lesson as last year on one of the round Britain cruises there were reports on this forum of there being 500 children on the Crown.

 

500 and 600 is nothing on that side of ship. I have been on holiday sailings and spring break sailings with close to 1000 kids. And these were paying passengers, not free. That is too many.

 

We had 500 kids on our Christmas cruise on the Sapphire (which percentage wise would be higher compared to the Crown as the Sapphire has fewer passengers) and they were pretty good.

[georgiavol]

The charge is for the pain and suffering of the rest of us adults who had the courtesy to not subject others to that age. Just because we love our own kids doesn't mean the rest of the world thinks it's great to be around a crying fussy baby.

[hubofhockey]

There were probably more than 600 kids than that on our Med cruise last summer on the Ruby. It was only problematic in that the pools in the main area became a bit rowdy on sea days and late on port days. Problem was solved by heading to the adult pool a deck higher outside of the gym/spa area. I don't understand why people want to bring babies on a cruise. But if they want to, it's their business. I don't understand the complaining about the price though. I think the price of the British Isles cruises are high. My choice is to pay it or look for other alternatives.

[Loonbeam]

For the record, can I say how impressed I am with your preparations!

 

Weighing in...

 

We depart tomorrow on our cruise with our 6-month-old.

 

We are fully prepared to dine in our suite if he's fussy and booked a suite so that we could do that. If he squawks in a public area, we leave. double time. Our kid travels a lot -- he has flown 3 round-trips now and taken a 28-hour (each way) train trip, and he has done a few road trips. He has spent over 25% of his life away from home.

 

We keep Starbucks gift cards handy to give to anyone who might be bothered by his presence. So far, only one person took one and only when we insisted, because he wouldn't be able to lean his seat back in front of the baby's car seat on the plane. We're bringing a bottle of wine for our neighbors in the cabins on either side, as a preemptive gesture, just in case they are bothered. If he cries on a plane or in our cabin loud enough for the neighbors to hear there's not a lot we can do in these situations, which is why we try to respond with some small gesture to compensate our neighbors.

 

So far he has only fussed on one leg of a flight, when he happened to be teething, and it was not for any significant duration. He's a pretty good baby -- and we do what we can to plan our trips to ensure that he will be happy. We bring toys to occupy him, I nurse him during takeoff and landing or whenever he seems restless, we hand off between mommy and daddy as needed, etc.

 

All this being said, we know that not everyone has this level of situational awareness. On one of our recent flights there was a mommy traveling alone with a 2-year-old who brought her on the plane with no toys, no books, nothing but a snack and some water. The mommy flipped through the SkyMall to try to entertain the child. Needless to say, we did not have to worry about being "the people with the baby", because she got to have that distinction. Another parent passenger gave her a lollypop to soothe the little girl during our descent, when she was obviously uncomfortable.

 

I agree that Princess most likely charges adult prices for 3rd and 4ths, because mainly adults occupy these slots. If a baby does, it's taking a potential slot that might otherwise be filled by an adult, who would be buying alcoholic drinks, going on excursions and burning their money in the casino.

 

Our baby doesn't eat solids yet (we chose to hold off until after the cruise, to make things simpler), so his demands may be a little less than other infants, but the typical 6-month-old and older child is eating solids and probably doing so in a pretty messy way. So babies do have some higher demands and some lower demands than adult passengers. I doubt Princess charges more for 3rds and 4ths to deliberately discourage babies and children from being onboard.

[donna5]

Weighing in...

 

We depart tomorrow on our cruise with our 6-month-old.

 

We are fully prepared to dine in our suite if he's fussy and booked a suite so that we could do that. If he squawks in a public area, we leave. double time. Our kid travels a lot -- he has flown 3 round-trips now and taken a 28-hour (each way) train trip, and he has done a few road trips. He has spent over 25% of his life away from home.

 

We keep Starbucks gift cards handy to give to anyone who might be bothered by his presence. So far, only one person took one and only when we insisted, because he wouldn't be able to lean his seat back in front of the baby's car seat on the plane. We're bringing a bottle of wine for our neighbors in the cabins on either side, as a preemptive gesture, just in case they are bothered. If he cries on a plane or in our cabin loud enough for the neighbors to hear there's not a lot we can do in these situations, which is why we try to respond with some small gesture to compensate our neighbors.

 

So far he has only fussed on one leg of a flight, when he happened to be teething, and it was not for any significant duration. He's a pretty good baby -- and we do what we can to plan our trips to ensure that he will be happy. We bring toys to occupy him, I nurse him during takeoff and landing or whenever he seems restless, we hand off between mommy and daddy as needed, etc.

 

All this being said, we know that not everyone has this level of situational awareness. On one of our recent flights there was a mommy traveling alone with a 2-year-old who brought her on the plane with no toys, no books, nothing but a snack and some water. The mommy flipped through the SkyMall to try to entertain the child. Needless to say, we did not have to worry about being "the people with the baby", because she got to have that distinction. Another parent passenger gave her a lollypop to soothe the little girl during our descent, when she was obviously uncomfortable.

 

I agree that Princess most likely charges adult prices for 3rd and 4ths, because mainly adults occupy these slots. If a baby does, it's taking a potential slot that might otherwise be filled by an adult, who would be buying alcoholic drinks, going on excursions and burning their money in the casino.

 

Our baby doesn't eat solids yet (we chose to hold off until after the cruise, to make things simpler), so his demands may be a little less than other infants, but the typical 6-month-old and older child is eating solids and probably doing so in a pretty messy way. So babies do have some higher demands and some lower demands than adult passengers. I doubt Princess charges more for 3rds and 4ths to deliberately discourage babies and children from being onboard.

 

You do sound like a parent that truly cares. I make it a point in a store or restaurant (especially when there is loud. crying and children running around screaming) and I am in line or near a really nice well behave child/baby to say to the parent what a cute/sweet well behaved baby/child they have. There are many people that shouldn't have children since they do not pay attention to them and seem to be able to tune them out. I am a retired/disable cop and I felt really sorry for some of the children that ended up in Social services because their parents jobs and social life meant more to them than their child. Some were acting out (not doing anything that would have been illegal if they had been an adult) just to get attention. Some felt all alone. Right now I am getting tears in my eyes just thinking of two (one young man got the attention he needed from his social worker and me, the other one it was too late for as he committed suicide[he tried to talk to his father that morning but his father was just tooo busy to take the time, he said he would talk to him later that night and the father never got to talk to his son]

 

So parents if you choose to have children please for their sake, love them, enjoy them and don't put your own wants first. You have been entrusted with a special gift.

 

So now you all know I'm not a cold hearted idiot!

[Minoushka]

I started to cruise when my little guy was 5 my big guy 8 .They behaved admirably everywhere.They had better table manners then some adults using cutlery appropriately .They ate 'ADULT "food loving meat and fish dishes with plenty of veggies . No mac no peanut butter They were NEVER a problem We enjoyed snorkeling together ,minigolfand bocci ball and they played Volleyball in water with adults and held their own plus basketball regularly They had suits for fancy nights and looked very chic

THey are now 16 and 19 and have done close to 30 cruises . I wanted them to see the world ...I'd say we have done half so far

Good for you ,you want your kids to see it too If your little guy behaves KUDOS to him

My kids loved Carnival and RCI because of all their activities geared towards them .My youngest loved skating in the Caribbean

Keep on travelling with him ..it is the Best education

 

mIchele

[4cruisecampers]

You know what ruins my vacation? some ADULTS

 

While I can't remember one cruise where my full enjoyment was hindered by a baby, I can tell you numerous instances where ADULTS who lack proper manners, etiquette, or behavior have definitely hindered my enjoyment.

 

If you've ever been on a cruise where you've encountered the loud person at the table next door who doesn't have volume control, the smoker who thinks its OK to smoke in non smoking areas, the fellow cruiser who pushes and shoves to get in the elevator in front of everybody else, the fellow cruiser who must cut in line in front of you at the buffet, the fellow cruiser who has no idea what formal attire means, the fellow cruisers who drink a little too much and thinks its cute to scream at the top of their lungs as they are walking down cabin hallways, or the tablemates who learned manners from a pack of wolves attacking their prey, THEN you know what I'm talking about.

 

Our son has been traveling since he was three months old. In one year, he's already flown more than many adults travel in their entire life, even in first class. He took his first cruise in December, and he will be cruising again to Alaska before he turns two. Not ONCE did he throw a temper tantrum or scream in public during our last cruise.

 

Exposing him to travel has truly paid off because he knows how to travel. Numerous times, people approach us to compliment his public behavior, whether we are at a restaurant, movie theater, airplane, OR a cruise ship.

 

I'm not going to be delusional and pretend that he's an absolutely perfect angel. But I know when it's time to remove him from a public setting if there's the slightest hint that his behavior may not be appropriate in public. I think that that's where the problem lies. Not with the babies, but with the parents who don't follow this basic rule.

 

Unfortunately, there are people who automatically categorize every young traveler in one group. It would be the same as generalizing with any other age group.

 

 

 

I don't think that the mainstream cruise lines are trying to deter anybody from cruising. They are charging what's fair for a third or fourth passenger, regardless of age. As I mentioned before, its easy to think that because someone is young they shouldn't pay as much, but they are going on the same cruise, sleeping in a bed, eating the same food, visiting the same destinations, participating in the same activities, and enjoying their time onboard just as much as any other passenger of any other age... Why should they be charged LESS?

 

 

What she said....and very well I might add;)

[icyfrost]

I find the pricing ridiculous too. We have taken our grandchildren on a Hal cruise b/c the 3th/4th rates are reasonable. While a good cruise, most people gave dirty looks to my son and daughter in law just for seeing the child in the dining room. Have seen this on princess too although not as bad. It is usually the same kind of people doing this, retirement age. These are the people that i think should be charged double.They complain,yell at staff and slow things down, my 02 cents.

[4cats4me]

The charge is for the pain and suffering of the rest of us adults who had the courtesy to not subject others to that age. Just because we love our own kids doesn't mean the rest of the world thinks it's great to be around a crying fussy baby.

 

Agreed. We had over 500 kids on an Alaskan sailing once, and the kids

were great! Very well behaved, but on occasion we have been subjected

to a whiney fussy infant and the parents were not courteous, and all

the adults in the immediate surrounding area were annoyed.

 

I believe that it's best to take little ones on the Disney line unless they're

old enough to act appropriately, and I do think Princess should continue

to charge the rates they're charging for little ones.

 

There are plenty of other types of vacations to go on if people don't like

to pay the 3rd/4th person rates.

[4cats4me]

duplicate

[cacy6893076]

thanks to all that took the correct side.........the $$$ for security is per person, the $$$$$ for all the behind the scenes folks, to keep the satellites running and to keep the electrical systems and the fuel to get from one place to the other , to keep the computers runinng and the lights on in the call center etc has to be per head count................some lines " make it up " in different ways, princess is infact up-front in reality: Operating cost /ship= operating cost/ ship

[countrycruzr]

As someone who is childless by choice and does not even want kids in my universe, I am grateful that Princess discourages people from bringing them along.

 

I am aware that not all children are offensive, screaming creatures, but there are a lot of parents that allow this behavior than those who stop it quickly, IMO. Within 10 minutes of going to the pool on Carnival, I saw a woman with an infant in a swim diaper in the pool! Right below the sign that said no kids in diapers! Fortunately, an employee promptly told her to leave.

 

Is it a person's right to take their kid on a cruise? Yes. Absolutely. Do I have to like it? No! Bravo to Princess for charging full fare!

 

Try MSC. Kids sail free there; which is why we would never sail with them.