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Don't get sick on carnival


apollobeach

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As a cardiologist, I can tell you that fainting not once but twice from atrial fibrillation is VERY serious. If I were the ship's doctor, I would recommend you be admitted to a hospital for monitoring immediately as well.

 

K

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What blatant lies did they tell. There was no reason for any lies. The man had unstable A fib. Automatic ticket off the boat.

 

Um... did you actually read the letter before writing your reply? No? OK, let me help:

 

"The call from me to Jessica on Tuesday morning, and her report of it, is not only erroneous but slanderous. The only truth to her statement is that, a) I did contact her; and b) I did tell her we would not surrender our Passports. That is all that was said by me. At no time was our use of an attorney ever mentioned, and I resent the fact that your employee has to, in all candor, lie to cover her actions."

 

"We were told, both individually and together from the ship's infirmary personnel that an air-evac had been planned to take me back to The United States. In fact, the insurance company has told me, while that was discussed, at no time was it authorized. Again, Mr. Sours and myself were lied to, and we were landed in St. Lucia to Tapion Hospital, with no assistance from Carnival or your Port Agent. "

 

 

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You are so far off base with your ignorant moral. You'll never know how many lives the ships infirmary staffs have saved, including my husbands. I hope that you never find yourself in need of their care. :rolleyes:

 

Am glad they were able to help your husband, but lukes dad is NOT that far off. Many of the "doctors' on the ship ARE in fact doctors, doctors of veternary science, doctors of dentistry, and other areas of expertise, but don't be fooled. All doctors are not medical doctors on the ships.I learned this from a doctor while sitting at the Captains table on a cruise and the "doctor" having a little too much grape and admitting he was sometimes perplexed by some of the things people came to him for.

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Um... did you actually read the letter before writing your reply? No? OK, let me help:

 

"The call from me to Jessica on Tuesday morning, and her report of it, is not only erroneous but slanderous. The only truth to her statement is that, a) I did contact her; and b) I did tell her we would not surrender our Passports. That is all that was said by me. At no time was our use of an attorney ever mentioned, and I resent the fact that your employee has to, in all candor, lie to cover her actions."

 

"We were told, both individually and together from the ship's infirmary personnel that an air-evac had been planned to take me back to The United States. In fact, the insurance company has told me, while that was discussed, at no time was it authorized. Again, Mr. Sours and myself were lied to, and we were landed in St. Lucia to Tapion Hospital, with no assistance from Carnival or your Port Agent. "

 

 

 

Actually I did read it. Twice. That is the OP's side of the story.

 

Why would they lie? The man showed up at their doorway asking for assistance after fainting twice and knowing he had Afib. They did not go looking for him. The ship infirmary attempted to stabalize him, and he was sent to an on land ER. And released back to the ship. He was then seen again in the ships infirmary where again they tried to stabalize him. He was then put off the ship.

 

The fact he was not put off in the first port buy only sent to the er says they were trying to get him through the cruise. When he was again having to be treated there was no option but for them to put him off.

 

Do you understand how dangerous Afib is?

 

So what do they have to lie about?

 

I think they had his best interest at heart and tried to correct the problem before he was put off the ship. If all they were trying to do was get rid of him, he would have been off at the first port.

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Actually I did read it. Twice. That is the OP's side of the story.

 

Why would they lie? The man showed up at their doorway asking for assistance after fainting twice and knowing he had Afib. They did not go looking for him. The ship infirmary attempted to stabalize him, and he was sent to an on land ER. And released back to the ship. He was then seen again in the ships infirmary where again they tried to stabalize him. He was then put off the ship.

 

The fact he was not put off in the first port buy only sent to the er says they were trying to get him through the cruise. When he was again having to be treated there was no option but for them to put him off.

 

Do you understand how dangerous Afib is?

 

So what do they have to lie about?

 

I think they had his best interest at heart and tried to correct the problem before he was put off the ship. If all they were trying to do was get rid of him, he would have been off at the first port.

 

Again, did you read that part of the letter? They weren't lying about the Afib and the OP was not denying that part. I also don't think the OP is most upset about being landed in the first place but rather how he was TREATED during the whole situation. What the "lies" seem to refer to is a conversation that OP had with Jessica that seems to have been relayed to Carnival Corp incorrectly by Jessica. From what I can gather Jessica seems to have told Carnival Corp that OP threatened to sue them or call an attorney and was otherwise acting in a threatening matter (please, OP, forgive me if I've misinterpreted this part and please clarify it since it is a bit confusing). So the lies were not about the Afib or being landed or any of that, but rather this conversation of unknown manner between OP and the Jessica.

 

It also seems that Carnival told OP he was going to be Air-evaced back the US once he was landed in St. Lucia, which it seems OP was OK with (again, please correct me if I'm reading this part wrong) but then they turned around and just landed him in St. Lucia and left without the assistance to air-evac him home that they had told him he would get. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you have one conversation where you are told you are going straight back to the US and then you wake up the next day to learn you're just being left in St. Lucia with no assistance in getting home?

 

I would understand being upset but have no recourse if he'd been told they'd be leaving him in St. Lucia and he would have to get his own transportation home, but it doesn't seem like this is what he'd been told at all and only came to this realization after arriving in St. Lucia.

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Am glad they were able to help your husband, but lukes dad is NOT that far off. Many of the "doctors' on the ship ARE in fact doctors, doctors of veternary science, doctors of dentistry, and other areas of expertise, but don't be fooled. All doctors are not medical doctors on the ships.I learned this from a doctor while sitting at the Captains table on a cruise and the "doctor" having a little too much grape and admitting he was sometimes perplexed by some of the things people came to him for.

 

What are you talking about? The doctor HAS to be a doctor:

 

"Though three years postgraduate experience in A&E, ICU and CCU and current full registration is the minimum requirement for entry as a ship's physician." from P&O website. Same for all major cruise lines like Carnival. That's for the JUNIOR doctor. The senior has to have at least twice that training and experience. :rolleyes:

 

This lists most cruise lines, requirements, etc:

 

http://www.acep.org/content.aspx?id=24930

 

One quote from Disney Cruise Line: We preferentially hire American or Canadian-trained emergency physicians for minimum contracts of 30 days. We will also consider family practice and internal medicine physicians with appropriate experience and advanced trauma life support/advanced cardiac life support certification. We also offer an elective in cruise medicine to third- and forth-year emergency medicine residents.

 

FYI while the docs may not be American, they must speak English on all cruises that have any port calls in the US, Canada or Caribbean in a 6 month period.

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@op - Sorry you had such a frustrating experience. If you have travel insurance and are before the booking window on your 4 upcoming cruises, you might want to see if your doctor will help you get a refund by writing a letter saying at the "present time a cruise trip is not indicated" or some such.

 

Also, and maybe I've been an attorney too long, but I found the meat of your complaint hard to find in the letter. The old "issue - conclusion - narrative" format probably could punch it up, e.g.

 

Issue

 

I was de-boarded from the ship without reasonable medical cause and then not provided adequate support by you or your port agents

 

Conclusion

 

As a loyal customer and shareholder with 4 upcoming cruises I want you to take steps X, Y, Z.

 

Discussion

 

the stuff you have

 

Anyhow, best wishes for you for continued health and thank you for sharing here.

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Again, did you read that part of the letter? They weren't lying about the Afib and the OP was not denying that part. I also don't think the OP is most upset about being landed in the first place but rather how he was TREATED during the whole situation. What the "lies" seem to refer to is a conversation that OP had with Jessica that seems to have been relayed to Carnival Corp incorrectly by Jessica. From what I can gather Jessica seems to have told Carnival Corp that OP threatened to sue them or call an attorney and was otherwise acting in a threatening matter (please, OP, forgive me if I've misinterpreted this part and please clarify it since it is a bit confusing). So the lies were not about the Afib or being landed or any of that, but rather this conversation of unknown manner between OP and the Jessica.

 

It also seems that Carnival told OP he was going to be Air-evaced back the US once he was landed in St. Lucia, which it seems OP was OK with (again, please correct me if I'm reading this part wrong) but then they turned around and just landed him in St. Lucia and left without the assistance to air-evac him home that they had told him he would get. Wouldn't you be a little upset if you have one conversation where you are told you are going straight back to the US and then you wake up the next day to learn you're just being left in St. Lucia with no assistance in getting home?

 

I would understand being upset but have no recourse if he'd been told they'd be leaving him in St. Lucia and he would have to get his own transportation home, but it doesn't seem like this is what he'd been told at all and only came to this realization after arriving in St. Lucia.

 

Again, that is the OP's side of the story.

 

As to the air lift to the US, that is probably what the ship's doctor wanted, and that is what they were planning for. That does not mean it is going to happen like that. Just last night we planned to air evac out a seriously injured pt. Had him all set to go and then we received a call back that the helicopter could not fly. That is it. We have to make different plans for the pt. We did not lie to the pt because we thought he was going to be flying out, but had to tell him other arrangements had to be made. So instead of a 25 min smooth flight, he got to ride 2 hours in the back of what I call the log truck because there is no suspension in an ambulance. There was no choice. He was injuried beyond our ability to take care of him.

 

The OP had a medical problem that was beyond the ship's ability to care for him, although it is apparent, they tried to improve him before that decision was made.

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One point I do not understand. Took the same cruise last week and we went to St Lucia first and than two days later to St Martin.

 

Are you sure you have your facts straight?

According to the Miracle's itineraries posted here, they stop in St. Maarten before St. Lucia on all cruises. Do you have your facts straight??
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"The hospital did testing and blood work, and after several hours found me fit to sail and I returned to The Miracle. According to the records of the medical personnel on The Miracle, I did not see a cardiologist in St. Maarten. In fact, the ER physician in St. Maarten did consult with a Cardiologist before clearing me to return to the ship.

 

 

When I returned to The Miracle I was directed to see the ship's physician, and he placed me on various IV's with medicine, so I was told, to slow my heart rate down. The doctor told me I was in Atrial Fibrillation (A-Fib), and my heart rate was beating too rapidly.

 

 

I informed Dr. Debeljacki, the ship's physician, that I had been in A-Fib since February 2010, and was being treated for same by my cardiologist. He told me that he was going to lower my heart rate through the use of IV and medicine added to the IV, and that would help. He also told me he was going to provide me with oral medication to help keep my heart rate down. I was never provided this medication.

 

 

After several hours Dr. Debeljacki released me from the facility, and I was free to move about the ship. "

________________________________________________________________________

 

The hospital released him to return to the ship, AND the ship's Dr cleared him to leave the clinic, if his life was hanging by a thread :cool:, why would two (hopefully) qualified physicians clear him at all? Also, why did the ship's Dr feel the need to medicate him further if the hospital they sent him to didn't? It sounds to me like Carnival just wanted to be rid of him because of his pre-existing condition. If that's how they want to play, they should take complete medical history before selling cabins to potential cruisers.

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"The hospital did testing and blood work, and after several hours found me fit to sail and I returned to The Miracle. According to the records of the medical personnel on The Miracle, I did not see a cardiologist in St. Maarten. In fact, the ER physician in St. Maarten did consult with a Cardiologist before clearing me to return to the ship.

 

 

When I returned to The Miracle I was directed to see the ship's physician, and he placed me on various IV's with medicine, so I was told, to slow my heart rate down. The doctor told me I was in Atrial Fibrillation (A-Fib), and my heart rate was beating too rapidly.

 

 

I informed Dr. Debeljacki, the ship's physician, that I had been in A-Fib since February 2010, and was being treated for same by my cardiologist. He told me that he was going to lower my heart rate through the use of IV and medicine added to the IV, and that would help. He also told me he was going to provide me with oral medication to help keep my heart rate down. I was never provided this medication.

 

 

After several hours Dr. Debeljacki released me from the facility, and I was free to move about the ship. "

 

________________________________________________________________________

 

 

The hospital released him to return to the ship, AND the ship's Dr cleared him to leave the clinic, if his life was hanging by a thread :cool:, why would two (hopefully) qualified physicians clear him at all? Also, why did the ship's Dr feel the need to medicate him further if the hospital they sent him to didn't? It sounds to me like Carnival just wanted to be rid of him because of his pre-existing condition. If that's how they want to play, they should take complete medical history before selling cabins to potential cruisers.

 

Because his condition probably improved, but it did not stay improved.

 

We are not talking about a broken bone which will stay broken until it is healed. This is a delicate peice of the body that can come and go out of normal behavior. After treatment, he was improved. Shortly thereafter, the heart went into a bad rhythm again. Again he was treated, but it did not fix the problem.

 

Sometimes treatment will fix the problem on the spot and he would have been good to go. In the OP's case, the problem came back in spite of treatment. After 2 treatments at least in the ships infirmary, the problem was obviously not improved. The ship's doctor was correct to send him to land to a better equiped hospital.

 

After the OP had been treated twice and the problem returned, what choice did they have? Just let him go back on board and hope you were not coding him in a few hours? Or send him somewhere better equiped if his problem became more serious?

 

I am positive after several days of him not staying improved, they wanted him off the ship. They had done what they could. The doctor is a real doctor, but he is probably not a cardiologist and they do not have all the necessary things to take care of someone having bad heart problems.

 

Sometimes medication will "fix" the problem. In the OP's case, it did not. But they tried that before he was put off.

 

When the heart is in a bad rhythm, it does not circulate blood effectively and therefore oxygen levels can go down among other things. We have no way of knowing how much trouble the OP was having, but the fact he fainted at least twice, was treated at least 2 times and was put off the ship, I suspect a lot.

 

And on a side note, if he was told he would be given oral medications and was not, he should have asked about them. However, he said he was on medication for the problem already, and it is just possible, he was on the same medication they had onboard. If he was already taking a medication at the correct dose, you do not give more of the same.

 

The plain truth is, the next time this man "fainted" could have been the last time he "fainted" if you can understand that.

 

The doctor on the ship made the right decision. The OP may not have liked it and you may not like it, but the ship's doc did not have a crystal ball to be able to tell if this man would be ok, or drop dead before morning.

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Because his condition probably improved, but it did not stay improved.

 

We are not talking about a broken bone which will stay broken until it is healed. This is a delicate peice of the body that can come and go out of normal behavior. After treatment, he was improved. Shortly thereafter, the heart went into a bad rhythm again. Again he was treated, but it did not fix the problem.

 

Sometimes treatment will fix the problem on the spot and he would have been good to go. In the OP's case, the problem came back in spite of treatment. After 2 treatments at least in the ships infirmary, the problem was obviously not improved. The ship's doctor was correct to send him to land to a better equiped hospital.

 

After the OP had been treated twice and the problem returned, what choice did they have? Just let him go back on board and hope you were not coding him in a few hours? Or send him somewhere better equiped if his problem became more serious?

 

I am positive after several days of him not staying improved, they wanted him off the ship. They had done what they could. The doctor is a real doctor, but he is probably not a cardiologist and they do not have all the necessary things to take care of someone having bad heart problems.

 

Sometimes medication will "fix" the problem. In the OP's case, it did not. But they tried that before he was put off.

 

When the heart is in a bad rhythm, it does not circulate blood effectively and therefore oxygen levels can go down among other things. We have no way of knowing how much trouble the OP was having, but the fact he fainted at least twice, was treated at least 2 times and was put off the ship, I suspect a lot.

 

And on a side note, if he was told he would be given oral medications and was not, he should have asked about them. However, he said he was on medication for the problem already, and it is just possible, he was on the same medication they had onboard. If he was already taking a medication at the correct dose, you do not give more of the same.

 

The plain truth is, the next time this man "fainted" could have been the last time he "fainted" if you can understand that.

 

The doctor on the ship made the right decision. The OP may not have liked it and you may not like it, but the ship's doc did not have a crystal ball to be able to tell if this man would be ok, or drop dead before morning.

Bingo!

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Because his condition probably improved, but it did not stay improved.

 

We are not talking about a broken bone which will stay broken until it is healed. This is a delicate peice of the body that can come and go out of normal behavior. After treatment, he was improved. Shortly thereafter, the heart went into a bad rhythm again. Again he was treated, but it did not fix the problem.

 

Sometimes treatment will fix the problem on the spot and he would have been good to go. In the OP's case, the problem came back in spite of treatment. After 2 treatments at least in the ships infirmary, the problem was obviously not improved. The ship's doctor was correct to send him to land to a better equiped hospital.

 

After the OP had been treated twice and the problem returned, what choice did they have? Just let him go back on board and hope you were not coding him in a few hours? Or send him somewhere better equiped if his problem became more serious?

 

I am positive after several days of him not staying improved, they wanted him off the ship. They had done what they could. The doctor is a real doctor, but he is probably not a cardiologist and they do not have all the necessary things to take care of someone having bad heart problems.

 

Sometimes medication will "fix" the problem. In the OP's case, it did not. But they tried that before he was put off.

 

When the heart is in a bad rhythm, it does not circulate blood effectively and therefore oxygen levels can go down among other things. We have no way of knowing how much trouble the OP was having, but the fact he fainted at least twice, was treated at least 2 times and was put off the ship, I suspect a lot.

 

And on a side note, if he was told he would be given oral medications and was not, he should have asked about them. However, he said he was on medication for the problem already, and it is just possible, he was on the same medication they had onboard. If he was already taking a medication at the correct dose, you do not give more of the same.

 

The plain truth is, the next time this man "fainted" could have been the last time he "fainted" if you can understand that.

 

The doctor on the ship made the right decision. The OP may not have liked it and you may not like it, but the ship's doc did not have a crystal ball to be able to tell if this man would be ok, or drop dead before morning.

 

Pretty much nails this one down. Sucks for the OP, really does, but maybe they saved his life.

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There is nothing to defend. Everything concerning this entire issue is covered under the ticket contract/terms and conditions. The OP obviously didn't read it before' date=' so didn't notify Carnival of her medical conditions...and the limits to the care available onboard...nor did she read about being put ashore in a hospital if the physician believes she needs more care. And what's more, she obviously hasn't read it today..or she wouldn't have written such a ridiculous letter...

 

The fact that she was fainting all over the place was a pretty good indication she should have told someone about her A-Tac. The one good thing she did was buy insurance.

 

As for all the nonsense about lies told by "them" and pushing her aside to avoid liability is simply that ... nonsense.[/quote']

why do you keep saying she.....it was a male and his partner. I didn't read the whole letter but could tell it was a male.

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I simply put a letter written to Carnival on this Board and said, in my opinion, don't get sick on Carnival.

 

I had not planned on saying anything further on this subject; however, the vitriol directed to me by many people responding to my posting needs to be addressed.

 

To those who had differing opinions to mine, and expressed them in a thoughtful way, I appreciate your comments, even though we might not agree.

 

To those who saw this as a method to viciously slam me, for whatever your hateful reason, I have absolutely no respect for you.

 

Two glaring cases in point - G'ma, and your constant referring to me as "she" or "her" in the nasty and vicious postings. Your ignorance and bigotry are showing, big time, and is not lost on me at all. Hope you are happy with your hate toward me. And, your posting verges on the slanderous. You couldn't have missed the picture posted by our name.

 

To golfadj - Do you have any facts straight before you accuse someone on not having their facts straight? I'm not the idiot here - we knew the itinerary, and surely knew what island and hospital we were on/in.

 

Very few of you bothered to read the WHOLE letter to Carnival, which, while being long, is very detailed as the the TREATMENT by Carnival regarding my landing, and the lack of assistance by Carnival after the landing.

 

Now, I well know that I will be called "too sensitive" and "nasty" as well as other vitriol that will be leveled at me. And, to those that will hurl even more insults, I could give a care.

 

Like so many people that visit Cruise Critic, I've pretty much ceased joining discussions on CC, due in part to the haters that exist it seems for no other reason than to slam other posters. That's really sad, because a healthful debate/dialogue, such as exhibited by so many in response to my initial posting, is good, healthy, and many times helpful. But so many, when they don't agree, find it so easy to spew their hate and nastiness on these Boards.

 

So, "slammers" - do your thing in response to what I have written here - I surely won't be reading your vitriol.

 

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I read the whole letter, it was well written. So sorry you went through that. I think you were treated poorly by Carnival's staff, but I would agree that you should have been landed. Seems if they'd just been kind and followed through with accurate information, you wouldn't have needed to write this letter. I hope your condition improves![/quote

 

I agree, they made a decision that you would be better served in a hospital than on board a cruise ship. I also feel that they should have provided you with better customer service and made you feel taken care of rather than dumped off. They should have a cruise line representative on the island much like the airlines do.

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They should have a cruise line representative on the island much like the airlines do.

 

I am sure they do - at least they did in Belize, and if they have one there, I would think they have them everywhere. To defend the op - the port agent we dealt with was great at first - but when dd was deemed "fit to travel" she kinda disappeared, and I was left on my own to make my own arrangements out of Belize. OP was placed in a very stressful situation. Maybe CCL didn't handle everything correctly, but I would rather be in a hospital getting care than on a cruise ship infirmary getting care!

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Everything concerning this entire issue is covered under the ticket contract/terms and conditions. The OP obviously didn't read it before' date=' so didn't notify Carnival of her medical conditions...and the limits to the care available onboard...nor did she read about being put ashore in a hospital if the physician believes she needs more care. And what's more, she obviously hasn't read it today..or she wouldn't have written such a ridiculous letter...

[/quote']

 

There are cheerleaders, and then there is you. Your lack of compassion for someone's vacation being ruined is just downright nasty. :mad:

 

So what if the contract covers these issues? No one plans for this sort of thing to happen and just because it did doesn't mean the ship or their agents on land couldn't help these people better with the logistics.

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I am a cardiac nurse and I would definitly have to side with Carnival on this case. How fast was your heart rate? If you fainted twice due to the Afib you were certainly not stable to remain on a cruise ship. If the ship's doctor had you on IV medicine to slow down your rate I would assume it was probably a Cardizem drip. This is something very serious and requires continuous cardiac monitoring. Afib with a high rate can be very dangerous, you were at a high risk of having a stroke or progressing into a more serious lethal arrythmia such as Vtach or Vfib. I am so sorry that this had to happen to you on your cruise and you had to get off. It is good that you had insurance and nothing worse happened to you.

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I am sorry that happened to you. Being put ashore..well, sucks!

I do agree with Carnival on the medical aspect though. It definately could have led to something more serious and they are definately not equipped to handle such a "possible" medical emergency and it was in their best interest, as well as yours, to send you packing, so to speak :p.

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As a cardiologist, I can tell you that fainting not once but twice from atrial fibrillation is VERY serious. If I were the ship's doctor, I would recommend you be admitted to a hospital for monitoring immediately as well.

 

K

 

That is what many suspected. Thanks for offering the medical seriousness in all of this.

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Am glad they were able to help your husband, but lukes dad is NOT that far off. Many of the "doctors' on the ship ARE in fact doctors, doctors of veternary science, doctors of dentistry, and other areas of expertise, but don't be fooled. All doctors are not medical doctors on the ships.I learned this from a doctor while sitting at the Captains table on a cruise and the "doctor" having a little too much grape and admitting he was sometimes perplexed by some of the things people came to him for.

 

:rolleyes: It really doesn't matter, since they are only there for reasonable emergency medical care, and to treat non-emergencies. They don't hide that fact. That's why patients needing more comprehensive care cannot be treated there. This explains their qualifications though...

 

 

 

Medical Staffing and Equipment

In order to maintain a safe and comfortable environment for our guests, our medical centers meet or exceed the standards established by the International Council of Cruise Lines and the American College of Emergency Physicians.

 

Our medical centers are staffed by qualified physicians and nurses who are committed to providing the highest quality of shipboard medical care. Each ship in the fleet carries one doctor and three nurses; the Destiny, Triumph and Victory each carry two doctors and four nurses.

 

Doctors on our ships are required to have a current and valid medical license from the USA, one of its territories, or Canada, Australia, New Zealand or South Africa, or have full registration with the British General Medical Counsel of the United Kingdom or current full registration with the British General Medical Council of the United Kingdom, or current full registration with the medical council of a member country of the European Union. In addition, doctors must demonstrate competent skill levels and hold current certification in basic and advanced cardiac life support and cardiac care, have experience in general medicine or general practice including emergency or critical care, and have one to three years clinical experience and minor surgical skills, and board or similar international certification is preferred. The doctors on board are independent contractors.

 

Shipboard medical facilities are set up to provide reasonable emergency medical care for guests and crew. In cases of extreme emergency where more comprehensive facilities are required, patients are referred to shoreside facilities.

 

In addition to standard lifesaving equipment such as defibrillators and external pacemakers, our medical centers carry some of the latest in medical technology including thrombolytic therapy, electrocardiograph machines, lab equipment, pulse oxymeters and x-ray machines on many of our ships.

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