NCL stop the 15% gratuity on drinks, please

[johnql]

AHH Thank you. I do miss the point. I assumed (and we all now know what that means) that all the staff earn a normal wage.

 

That was easy, no need for anything more to be said.

 

Mods close it down, rip it up and shove it in the bin. I am enlightened.

 

All that remains is a BIG THANK YOU to all those that helped me in the error of my ways and especially to sjbdtz.:D

 

Good night, really need to sleep for work tomorrow (eek today)

Aha! Assumptions - yup, they get us in trouble. I, for one, assumed (!) that you knew that most of the service staff makes dirt and rely on the tips (or Daily Service Charge) for the bulk of their pay.

[PleaseNo]

Can somebody with far more intelligence than me ask a mod to close this thread, i really need my bed and i just cant face the FAQ's if i honest to find out how to complete this request.

 

Good night all,

[dockrocker]

You're up awfully late for an Italian it's 2.40am! :rolleyes:

 

Yes, it's fairly late in Italy. But not where I am.

 

Failure of imagination will get you every time.

[dockrocker]

Can somebody with far more intelligence than me ask a mod to close this thread, i really need my bed and i just cant face the FAQ's if i honest to find out how to complete this request.

 

Good night all,

 

The thread is useful whether or not you continue to post in it. Why do you need it to be shut down?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Actually in starting this i have begun to understand more the view from the other side.

 

Its all a learning curve. Tonight i am learning so it is positive.

 

I'd like to know is why when I come to the UK they make me drive on the wrong side of the road?

 

They don't do that here in the U.S.? (tic):p

 

Bill

[halos]

If you don't like the rules you don't have to play.

 

good answer ;)

 

But just as Americans who leave their comfort zone and expect everything to be just like it is in the US are being unreasonable, so are you when you expect international cruiselines to operate like everything does on your home base.

 

Passengers are not going to rise up en masse and demand that the gratuity be removed because most passengers simply don't agree with you. There is quite a bit of complaining around here about the drink autogratuity being a full 15% (mostly from people who live in rural areas and/or are elderly), but very few people are arguing, as you are, that there shouldn't be a tip at all. (And fortunately, even fewer people are pretending that their job situations at home are remotely analogous to cruise ship crews'. The "just move on" bit is priceless.)

 

You can pay the autogratuity or you can skip the cruise.

 

Amen.

[cacj]

While we still sit on the fence a bit (more pro than con) about the auto-tip on a drink bill, what we are clearly unhappy with is the staff member who might indicate that he/she expects a tip on top of the tip on the bill....that aspect happens, and it is totally unacceptable. If the auto-tip on the drink bill truly goes to the bar staff, then we feel we have transacted in compliance. But do not sigh, roll your eyes, or stand an extra moment past the "thank you" expecting more tipping. Not only has this happened at the bar/pool service area....but also in the spa...where I had an attendant tell me that the 18% was not really going to reward her for her service. Pffffft!

[bigfoot88]

They always have to squeeze a penny to try and make it a dime.

 

Going to add fuel to the squeezing statement. On the Oct 2010 Jewell cruise I found several members of the bar staff up charging me for “Top Shelf” liquor when standard was used, and when asked about it the bar staff lied to my face. The lie was confirmed when I called and confronted the Food and Beverage Director, the F&B Director credited that drink and spoke to the person involved, it happened two more times that cruise bar other members of the bars staff at other bars on the ship.

 

So I ask the question, why did this happen????? The Bar staff makes nothing more on the sale other than the additional .03 cent tip,,,, a TRUE nickel and penny

[bluecollar141]

I think im getting off light w 15% tip. When I am at a bar I tip a buck everytime I get a beer and if Im buying a round its usually a few bucks.

[sdmike]

I made a cabbie's day on a drive from Schiphol to downtown Amsterdam when I added a significant tip to the bill. Only later did I find out from my Dutch friend that you don't tip there. I learned that when I ordered up my $25 steak dinner that cost $40 :)

 

One way or another you'll pay the cost plus reasonable profit. It actually benefits all of us for the cruise lines to add a DSC instead of adding an equivalent amount to the far. The line gets taxed on the fare as part of the income statement. If that amount is 20% (hypothetically) then the fare would have to be increased by the amount of the DSC plus an additional amount for the same net result. It's a bit of a shell game they play, and when enough people did not leave the "recommended" gratuity in the envelopes left in the cabin the staff suffered significantly and the DSC was implemented. Same applies to the bartenders. Same shell game. That 15% probably keeps us from paying 20% more for drinks.

 

When I visit Europe I know I'm going to pay out the nose even at the Burger King drive through, gas is more expensive than scotch :), if you ask for water it comes in a tiny bottle for about $5 (no tap), and soda's in restaurants are about 8 oz (which is why we drank beer. lol). Those not used to the tipping policies on cruise ships should either understand it's there and budget for it, or choose a vacation more to their liking.

 

 

By the way, for some reason I thought I remembered the NCL bar tip at 18% not 15%, but could be very wrong.

Happy Cruising!!

Edited February 14, 2011 by sdmike

[peg013]

Spinnaker Lounge

Norwegian Jewel

CHK 9684 12 Feb '11 22:50

1 Pina Colada $9.00

Bicardi Select

Icicle Glass

Subtotal $9.00

Autogratuity 1.35

Total Paid $10.35

 

$9.00 x 15% = $1.35 :p

 

I know, I screwed up and forgot to tell them no souvenier glass!

Edited February 14, 2011 by peg013

[Chuck2810]

Problem here is Europeans do not have customary tipping. I've been there and tried to slip half a quid to a bartender, and get a really strange look! It is not a convention there. That said, Europe remains unique in that in the Americas bar-tending, among a few other discreet jobs, have tipping as the conventional method of compensation. Employers set hourly rates based on this. Many waiters get no salary at all, and exclusively live off the tips they get. Others may get paid what is called minimum wage - which is just a mere pittance, but they might make $200-$400 a night in tips. So deciding to 'stiff' someone really hits them at home. This is the basis of a great deal of the anti-European feelings, its just a misunderstanding of pay. My very limited experience in the UK suggests that the cost of a pint, easily includes the amount I would have tipped, but I don't know what salary they have negotiated with the staff, but I suspect they make more than £4.50 / hr.

 

NCL, is - for the most part - operating as an American vessel. There are plenty of Med cruises, but the majority are in the Caribbean and Alaska. I won't defend the prices of the drinks, but they are obviously fair, or they would have no business!

 

So, when in Rome...

[cuprsnel]

Since we are talking about the pay of the bar staff, tipping, and the UK, I remember when most of the bartenders used to be British. When the cruise industry changed to keycards and stopped using cash they quit en masse. Princess was one of the first to do this and others followed suit quickly once they saw profits soar.

[alreadypacked]

If you want the staff to get a fair wage without it coming out of tips, you can plan on your cruise fare doubling or tripling.

 

Gratuities are a large part of the reason that labor is so cheap on cruiselines, which keeps your base fare low.

 

The other reason that labor is cheap on cruiselines is that the lines recruit from impoverished countries where job opportunities are exceptionally limited. When you make flippant comments like, "If they don't like it, they can move on," you're showing a stunning lack of understanding of how the rest of the world lives.

 

Bless you!! This is absolutely true. Thank you for saying it!

[sparks1093]

Yes, I was joking, hence the little :p's

I was referring to the Bahamas being part of the British Commonwealth :rolleyes:

 

I guess the irony was lost, sorry!

 

I know you were, the thread was moving so fast that I believe I quoted the wrong post (and I did like your humor, btw:)). But in essence it was to answer the question "which custom do you follow on an American owned ship that is flagged in the Bahamas that is visiting ports in Europe". The ship's established custom would obviously be followed.

 

One of the undercurrents that I'm sensing in this thread is that someone that works for tips is working for a pittance. I know several people who work for upscale establishments who receive most of their compensation via tips. They are doing quite well and have no complaints with the system. I have no problem with the system, either.

[youngestof9]

It's funny, coming from New York, I pretty much throw a buck (sometimes 2) every time we buy a round of drinks. Extremely customary. (although so are buy-backs which is not customary in most places!). So in the end, the added 15% is probably cheaper for me! And as far as prices, I paid $5.75 for a bacardi & diet coke on the Epic. I paid $6.25 at a local restaurant. I can tell you with certainty that the view was not the same.

 

so for me, keep the gratuity as it is. If you raise the price and not mark it as gratuity, the staff gets less in the long run, even if there's a fair amount of good tippers. There will always be the "no tippers".

[auntierobin]

It's funny, coming from New York, I pretty much throw a buck (sometimes 2) every time we buy a round of drinks. Extremely customary. (although so are buy-backs which is not customary in most places!). So in the end, the added 15% is probably cheaper for me! And as far as prices, I paid $5.75 for a bacardi & diet coke on the Epic. I paid $6.25 at a local restaurant. I can tell you with certainty that the view was not the same.

 

so for me, keep the gratuity as it is. If you raise the price and not mark it as gratuity, the staff gets less in the long run, even if there's a fair amount of good tippers. There will always be the "no tippers".

 

:D I have to agree, coming from Chicago the drink prices are actually cheaper onboard than they are in a restaurant most of the time. We always give the bartender/waitress a couple of extra dollars with each set of drinks ordered on top of the automatic 15%.

At home we usually tip 20% on the final bill, so we don't mind tipping extra onboard, to bring that 15% up to at least the 20% level, the service is great and the crew has to put up with the whining passengers.

 

You might think about booking a lower category cabin next time and save your money for extras.

P.S. We usually travel in a mini-suite (sometimes a penthouse)

[Sea Monster 2]

I've been following this thread with great interest. I think a lot of posters hit it on the head, that when we travel it is our responsibility to know the customs where we are going, including those related to tipping. I can understand OP's complaint that his cruise will be more expensive than what was marketed to him because of these "hidden" costs, but it sounds like his beef should be with his TA rather than NCL, whose policies are publicly available (although not actually blaring from the home page :rolleyes:). NCL is entitled to operate as they see fit within the law, and this is the choice they have made, and obviously it has not had a negative impact on their ability to fill ships.

 

FWIW, and too late for OP, I think it's very important to always have a cash/credit cushion when traveling, because so often there are unanticipated and unavoidable events, such as emergencies, delays, strikes, natural disasters, etc., for which you may have to pay, at least initially, out of pocket. I do fondly remember the days in my youth when I would blithely go trotting off to Europe with $300 in my pocket for weeks at a time... but those days are over! I know a lot more about what can happen in the world and what it can cost to deal with those situations! :eek: I hope OP has a great cruise in spite of this unpleasant "surprise!!"

[che5904]

What it really comes down to is your opinion is totally based on the customs on your country of origin.

For example, I am from Canada our custom is 10%-15% for gratuity based employment, and given on the service received above the basic job description of that employee. For example it is expected your server will bring you a menu, take your order, twist your bottle cap etc., If they do a table check, offer to refill your coffee when low etc (that is above their basic job). In saying that I am finding here as well, that we are adopting a different mentality that for some reason the worker is entitled to a 15% tip to subsidize their wage. I do not agree with this and still tip if the worker goes above her/his call of duty.

I can understand that, although the ship is Bahama based, it probably has more United States travelers than from one other specific country, therefore over time has adopted the mentality of “we are to subsidize lower paid professions, instead of forcing companies to just up their pay scale”. Therefore, cruise ships know they are not risking customers by doing this, if the majority of their customers believe in and understand that philosophy. I do prefer to have specific prices stated and not have to add taxes or gratuities in my head for the bottom dollar and just let admin figure out how much is the price and how much is gratuities etc. Makes my travel less brain taxing when on vacation. But when in Rome….. So I have found if I go to order a drink, I just ask “OK so what is the bottom dollar” Because I really don’t care who gets what in the end, I am on vacation, I will worry about social issues when I come back home.

Now to all the posters who have jumped on the OP or will jump on me. Please understand that if you come from somewhere who does not adopt the same philosophy as your country of origin, it’s not from lack of doing research but from understanding why you do what you do or feel the way you do. To the OP you also have to understand that your opposition posters are from a country that believe this is their social responsibility to subsidize lower paying employment and not the hiring company’s responsibility to pay their staff better in the first place. So again since most cruisers on NCL are States based you are not going to get many that would stand against this, because to them it is the norm and makes total sense.

Happy cruising all!

[mjkacmom]

I agree. The OP misses the point that back in Europe, where tips are not customary, the "gratuity" is built into the base price of the item. It is going to be paid either way.

 

Of course, the drinks on a ship are way overpriced, especially considering the duty-free nature of the ingredients, but that is a separate issue.

 

And ship here realize that since people from other countries might not realize that most people throw a buck down on the bar after received their drinks, it's a good idea just to have it covered in the price of the drinks.

 

As for the drinks being overpriced, I live in the NYC city area, and was pleasantly suprised. You can't get a martini for under $10 here, and a glass of wine is about $8 in bars and restaurants. I found the coffee bar to be considerably cheaper than coffee bars here as well.

[halos]

One way or another you'll pay the cost plus reasonable profit. It actually benefits all of us for the cruise lines to add a DSC instead of adding an equivalent amount to the far. The line gets taxed on the fare as part of the income statement. If that amount is 20% (hypothetically) then the fare would have to be increased by the amount of the DSC plus an additional amount for the same net result. It's a bit of a shell game they play, and when enough people did not leave the "recommended" gratuity in the envelopes left in the cabin the staff suffered significantly and the DSC was implemented. Same applies to the bartenders. Same shell game. That 15% probably keeps us from paying 20% more for drinks.

 

When I visit Europe I know I'm going to pay out the nose even at the Burger King drive through, gas is more expensive than scotch :), if you ask for water it comes in a tiny bottle for about $5 (no tap), and soda's in restaurants are about 8 oz (which is why we drank beer. lol). Those not used to the tipping policies on cruise ships should either understand it's there and budget for it, or choose a vacation more to their liking.

!!

 

Some people have what I like to call 'Ostrich Syndrome'

They feel better when they can't see something.

 

Do you recall when CCL and NCL first started with the fuel supplement?? People went through the roof! Many said they hated that surcharge and would rather have it built into the cruise cost.

Why????

You pay it no matter what.

 

SO...I can tell you first hand what Carnival did...the cost of their cruises went up only slightly (if at all) when they eliminated the fuel surcharge BUT the cuts they have made over the past year or two have been way more than noticeable.

One way or another you pay.

 

Tipping doesn't bother me...but not everyone feels this way.

I also don't feel the drinks on the ship are expensive...but I compare them to what I pay when I travel to other places (vacation resorts) and of course, what I pay here at home. There is little to no difference to what I pay at home and ship drinks on any cruise I have sailed are equal to or sometimes a lot less than what I pay at any other vacation spot. Hell, they days I spent pre and post cruise in Miami, the drinks were overpriced and WEAK...which pisses me off.

The drinks I had on the islands where the cruise ship stopped were more costly and weaker than what I got on the ship...The only exception to this rule is Mexico, where food and booze come very cheap.

My next booked cruise is to hawaii :eek: I have no delusions about what it is going to cost me to eat and drink on those Islands. What I pay for a drink on the ship will likely be a lot less even with the 15% gratuity PLUS additional tip on top of that.

 

All in all, cruising is always a great deal, tipping incuded. :)

Edited February 14, 2011 by halos

[flintg]

If you want the staff to get a fair wage without it coming out of tips, you can plan on your cruise fare doubling or tripling. Please define "fair wage"? By what standard?

Gratuities are a large part of the reason that labor is so cheap on cruiselines, keeps your base fare low.

The other reason that labor is cheap on cruiselines is that the lines recruit from impoverished countries where job opportunities are exceptionally limited.

Exactly - which makes the who question of "fair wage" even more confused!

Take a room steward servicing 20 rooms with 2 people in each = 40 people x 3.50 each = $140 per day X 7 = $980 per week X 4 = $3920per month X 12 = $47040 per year, not including those cabins with more then 2 people! $3920 per month is more then most of these people could earn in a year in their home countries, not to mention the pay received from the cruise line, plus room and board and other benefits! MOST of us should have it so good!

 

When you make flippant comments like, "If they don't like it, they can move on," you're showing a stunning lack of understanding of how the rest of the world lives.

 

Granted they work long hard hours, but so do many of us! Frankly I get tired of hearing how abused these people are - they fight for these jobs, at

the rates quoted by the cruise lines. Tipping should be for service rendered above and beyond - period.

[ColinIllinois]

What it really comes down to is your opinion is totally based on the customs on your country of origin.

 

For example, I am from Canada our custom is 10%-15% for gratuity based employment, and given on the service received above the basic job description of that employee. For example it is expected your server will bring you a menu, take your order, twist your bottle cap etc., If they do a table check, offer to refill your coffee when low etc (that is above their basic job). In saying that I am finding here as well, that we are adopting a different mentality that for some reason the worker is entitled to a 15% tip to subsidize their wage. I do not agree with this and still tip if the worker goes above her/his call of duty.

 

I can understand that, although the ship is Bahama based, it probably has more United States travelers than from one other specific country, therefore over time has adopted the mentality of “we are to subsidize lower paid professions, instead of forcing companies to just up their pay scale”. Therefore, cruise ships know they are not risking customers by doing this, if the majority of their customers believe in and understand that philosophy. I do prefer to have specific prices stated and not have to add taxes or gratuities in my head for the bottom dollar and just let admin figure out how much is the price and how much is gratuities etc. Makes my travel less brain taxing when on vacation. But when in Rome….. So I have found if I go to order a drink, I just ask “OK so what is the bottom dollar” Because I really don’t care who gets what in the end, I am on vacation, I will worry about social issues when I come back home.

 

Now to all the posters who have jumped on the OP or will jump on me. Please understand that if you come from somewhere who does not adopt the same philosophy as your country of origin, it’s not from lack of doing research but from understanding why you do what you do or feel the way you do. To the OP you also have to understand that your opposition posters are from a country that believe this is their social responsibility to subsidize lower paying employment and not the hiring company’s responsibility to pay their staff better in the first place. So again since most cruisers on NCL are States based you are not going to get many that would stand against this, because to them it is the norm and makes total sense.

 

Happy cruising all!

 

You make some good points that I agree with and I am from the U.S.

 

Even when I go to restaurants I don't look at the server and think "damn, they are only getting minimum wage so I'd better tip well". That's not my responsibility.

 

What is my responsibility is as a consumer is to to tip according to proper etiquette and circumstances. I tip well for outstanding service and if you give me crappy service then don't expect 20 percent or more but you will get tipped.

 

Charge me the 12 bucks a day service charge. I think that's a great system and I'm fine with it. Put the drink tip on my bill and I'm fine with that. If I tip you more it's a bonus. If I don't think your service warrants more, you aren't getting more. You haven't done anything special to earn it.

 

I'm on vacation. I wan't my brain to melt slowly with the occasional help of some tasty adult beverages. NCL makes that easy to do.

[cod]

I like the auto tip policy...since I always tipped anyway, this makes things much easier. And yes, if I ask for something out of the norm from, say, a cabin steward I will tip something additional. As for the 15% bar add-on, we don't drink a lot and I could care less. And as has been said, it would be gotten one-way-or-another.

 

Years ago we were on a RC ship out to NO..there were 7 of us and next to our table was an even larger table of a Japanese family. I couldn't help but notice on the last night that no 'envelopes' changed hands when this family left and that our wait-staff seemed really down! Were they stiffed from this group?..I think so although of course I can't be sure. A few years later, when auto tipping went into effect I couldn't help but remember that time and thinking 'horay' that stiffing these hard working people - by anyone!! -would come to an end!! JMHO...as always!!!

[cod]

I like the auto tip policy...since I always tipped anyway, this makes things much easier. And yes, if I ask for something out of the norm from, say, a cabin steward I will tip something additional. As for the 15% bar add-on, we don't drink a lot and I could care less. And as has been said, it would be gotten one-way-or-another.

 

Years ago we were on a RC ship out to NO..there were 7 of us and next to our table was an even larger table of a Japanese family. I couldn't help but notice on the last night that no 'envelopes' changed hands when this family left and that our wait-staff seemed really down! Were they stiffed from this group?..I think so although of course I can't be sure. A few years later, when auto tipping went into effect I couldn't help but remember that time and thinking 'horay' that stiffing these hard working people - by anyone!! -would come to an end!! JMHO...as always!!!