Is the Med about to become a war zone?

[travelberlin]

Hi Palmetto,

you say the military in Lybia is not a dangeur to anyone anymore. Can you please explain why?

[Palmetto Pilot]

Hi Palmetto,

you say the military in Lybia is not a dangeur to anyone anymore. Can you please explain why?

Because it has been destroyed. It ceases to exist as an entity. Command and Control has been destroyed along with the infrastructure of the military has been destroyed as well. All of this was done to create the no fly zone and to protect the rebels.

[LarryL]

Although we are only skirting the Spanish coast next fall, I don't feel we are in any imminent danger on our cruise ship. As others have said, the cruise lines have the safety of their passengers at stake and I don't see them maintaining a destination that isn't safe.

These coalition forces, for the US, have actually used Air Force, Navy, and Marine aircraft during these strikes. Add the Navy missiles and it's no wonder the Libyan miltary has gone silent.

As far as using mustard gas acquired in the 80's I think is not a threat at all being that chemical compound begins to break down after about 10 years. If there is anything left in Libya, it is most likely useless.

I would hate to see this interesting forum lose it's momentum and get off track due to fear mongering.

[foxesden1]

Dear friends:

 

It's nice to see the comments start to chime in.

 

I'm usually one of the most adventurous persons I actually know. When I was a diplomat, I was in war zones and countries with severe safety deficiencies.

 

However, we're not talking about work -- we're talking about a holiday -- a vacation.

 

I'm watching the live broadcast of our 9 o'clock news here in Spain right now. You actually see the warships, aircraft carriers, etc. leaving port with the French Riviera in the background.

 

While cruise ships will obviously stay away from the Libyan and North African coasts, it just seems too close to me, and I don't know if I want to cruise right through an area where all of this is going on.

 

My next upcoming RCCL cruise is around Holy Week (one month from now) -- let's see how all of this unfolds.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

We are cruising into Spain in two weeks time. I am also very area of what is going on in the area - if the US or Canada rqsts a travel ban on Americans or CDNs going into that area. We will of course cancel. If it happens, while we are already on board, we will disembark before the ship arrives in Barcelona and take the train to France. Avoiding all coasta areas if need be.

 

To much? Maybe but if gives my family and I peice of mind then so be it.

 

T

[Attapooch]

Hi Palmetto,

you say the military in Lybia is not a dangeur to anyone anymore. Can you please explain why?

 

In short, if Libya still has any working toys the minute that they turn on anything that uses radar we detect it and send over a rocket to blow it up.

[DramaBB82]

*I am cross-posting this because for some reason this thread is more active than the other one, even though the other one is older*

 

Ok, please no one flame me for this, as I am posting some very real concerns here that even sound ridiculous to me- but I want to voice them just in case, because I honestly feel Gaddafi is out of his mind and capable of anything.

 

So here is my question:

What if he does start attacking cruise ships in the same way that Bin Ladin attacked American passenger planes for 9/11? Or worse yet, what if previous terrorist forces - like Bin Ladin's - see this as an opportunity to attack cruise ships as a way of furthering his cause? Perhaps either trying to pin it on Lybia, or even allying with Lybian forces for tourist terrorism? :(

 

I am scheduled for Nav OTS out of Rome the first week of June, so we'd be in the Eastern Med, North of Lybia, touring Greece and Turkey- hot spots for war protests and directly across the Med Sea from Lybia.

 

Thank you for any civil discussion...

[manu4evr]

So here is my question:

What if he does start attacking cruise ships in the same way that Bin Ladin attacked American passenger planes for 9/11? Or worse yet, what if previous terrorist forces - like Bin Ladin's - see this as an opportunity to attack cruise ships as a way of furthering his cause? Perhaps either trying to pin it on Lybia, or even allying with Lybian forces for tourist terrorism?

The way I see it is that attacking cruise ships would not be a very easy thing to do. Bin Laden didn't attack American airplanes, he used them as weapons to make an attack on symbols of American life. Cruise ships don't lend themselves to that kind of protest. Hostage taking, yes, but I don't think that is what the terrorists are about. The Achille Lauro was about hostage taking, but the "prize" was the release of political prisoners, which didn't happen.

[foxesden1]

The way I see it is that attacking cruise ships would not be a very easy thing to do. Bin Laden didn't attack American airplanes, he used them as weapons to make an attack on symbols of American life. Cruise ships don't lend themselves to that kind of protest. Hostage taking, yes, but I don't think that is what the terrorists are about. The Achille Lauro was about hostage taking, but the "prize" was the release of political prisoners, which didn't happen.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

 

not sure if I agree with what you are saying..

[Mrs Miggins]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

 

not sure if I agree with what you are saying..

 

WOW - now we are going back to World War One and 1915 ! How is this relevant ?

[Palmetto Pilot]

WOW - now we are going back to World War One and 1915 ! How is this relevant ?

It's not....at all.

[Attapooch]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

 

not sure if I agree with what you are saying..

 

I'm not sure the Germans would appreciate being equated with bin Laden or al-Qaida.

 

That said, it's true that the Lusitania was targeted during WWI but it's also true that prior to her sailing the Germans printed advertisements saying that the ship was a legitimate target and that traveling on her was at your own risk.

 

All that said, bringing the Lusitania into the conversation is essentially a non sequitur.

[Mrs Miggins]

Hi,

UK airforce aborted a mission yesterday because there were civilians in the target area. Of course we don't know if they were all there willingly or as a ploy to stop the bombardment.

There is no UN mandate for regime change - the point as I understand it is to stop Gadaffi killing more of his own people but he does appear to have some support.

The strikes were lead by the US with UK involvement at all levels. The coalition includes France, Canada, Spain Denmark and Belgium. As you say there appears to be limited support from the Arab League

Looks like we are all in it together !

 

Back to the OP.s question - I don't think anyone should cancel -

[emilymad]

While I agree that I don't think I would cancel my cruise but what about if you hadn't booked yet. We are looking to cruise in September so I feel mostly confident that this issue will be resolved by then but it is making me hesitant to actually book something. We are trying to decide on which exact ship and we were hoping to book this week. I think we might wait a little longer to see how this plays out.

[NordicPrince]

Dear friends:

 

My wife and I have several RCCL Mediterranean cruises booked this Spring and summer, starting as early as next month.

 

I would just like to start a friendly debate and exchange of opinions as to whether there is cause to be a little apprehensive because of the Libya situation.

 

Bases are being used in Spain, France, Italy, Cyprus. More than 100 Tomahawk missiles were fired from a warship in the Mediterranean Sea.

 

If Gaddafi retaliates against the allies, he probably couldn't reach mainland Italy. But could he reach the Italian Islands? Malta?

 

We live in Spain (Madrid), and just the thought of being so close to Libya does make me a little nervous.

 

Even if in this debate we all decide that it is perfectly safe, don't we still feel a little bit tense sailing on our cruise ship through a sea where there are missiles going up into the air around us and war planes going back and forth?

 

Happy Sunday to all and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Boy, wouldn't it be ironic if you got on a ship and a bad situation developed and the military forces of the U.S. had to step up and protect you?

 

I bet you might change your previously posted poor perceptions of American intentions then.

 

As far as relations with the Mad Colonel, the U.S. involvement with him goes back to the bombing of Pan Am 103 in which an innocent 23 year old co-worker in our firm in New York on the way home from London for Christmas was killed. Recently we as Americans begged the Scottish government not to return the convicted mastermind of the plot to Libya to no avail. The deal was done on humanitarian grounds because the mastermind supposedly had less than 6 months to live. Surprise, he gets home and can live another 10 years. The deal was done to cement good relations between the Colonel and the British government (acting on behalf of British Petroleum). Now less than a year later they're involved in military action against him. Talk about irony.

 

Just goes to show you, in the case of Madman Colonel., once a bad actor, always a bad actor.

 

Unless you truly want to become the next Leon Klinghofer I would stay away from sailing in the Mediterranean and take a river cruise on the Rhine this year. Besides RCI charges way too much to cruise there anyway.

 

I hope the Libyan people are successful in their efforts to remove this thorn in the side of civilized nations.

[foxesden1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Lusitania

 

not sure if I agree with what you are saying..

 

 

I brought up the Lusitania, because the person whom I had quoted said that (or as I understood it) that cruiseships are not targets. I was just stating that they have been targets, and might very well one day be a target. no one knows for sure.

 

as far as the comment on it being the war in 1915 - and it having nothing to the med today - war is war. people still talk about and are still aware of the Lusitania. as they are of lockerbie and of 9/11. just because it happened in the past, does not mean it could not happen again.

 

and as far as the comment on comparing Germans.. I did no such thing.

[Mrs Miggins]

This thread has become ridiculous and objectionable. My post states that there is a coalition of like minded nations doing their best to protect Libyan civilians. That is right. It is wrong to insult others. We all have our political opinions but perhaps this is not the right forum to discuss our prejudices. The original thread was a reasonable question and now it has been reduced to the lowest common denominator.

 

Many UK citizens died in the Pan Am 103 disaster. The biggest irony is that somehow the return to Libya of the only person to be tried has somehow been blamed on the original poster. Many people from all nations disagreed with the return but it is also true that some of the relatives of those who died did not object and do not believe he was guilty.

 

We should be grateful to live in Democracies that allow us to object to what our various Governments are doing.

[manu4evr]

I brought up the Lusitania, because the person whom I had quoted said that (or as I understood it) that cruiseships are not targets. I was just stating that they have been targets, and might very well one day be a target. no one knows for sure.

As I understand it, the Lusitania was not a cruise ship and while she was carrying passengers, she was also carrying a large shipment of small arms (rifles) from the US to Great Britain for use in WWI against Germany. That made her a legitimate target for sinking by the German Navy.

You are correct in stating - ...and might very well one day be a target. no one knows for sure. True, however, I was just giving an opinion that I didn't consider them to be targets because of the previous actions of Al Qaeda to attack more symbolic targets. Lusitania was torpedoed by a German submarine, I doubt Al Qaeda or Qaddafi has that as a resource.

As far as relations with the Mad Colonel, the U.S. involvement with him goes back to the bombing of Pan Am 103 in which an innocent 23 year old co-worker in our firm in New York on the way home from London for Christmas was killed.

One of the flight engineers on Pan Am 103 lived in Westminster, Ca. Our son in law was a police officer in Westminster and had the task of informing his family of his death.

[jigsaw101]

Dear friends:

 

It's nice to see the comments start to chime in.

 

I'm usually one of the most adventurous persons I actually know. When I was a diplomat, I was in war zones and countries with severe safety deficiencies.

 

However, we're not talking about work -- we're talking about a holiday -- a vacation.

 

I'm watching the live broadcast of our 9 o'clock news here in Spain right now. You actually see the warships, aircraft carriers, etc. leaving port with the French Riviera in the background.

 

While cruise ships will obviously stay away from the Libyan and North African coasts, it just seems too close to me, and I don't know if I want to cruise right through an area where all of this is going on.

 

My next upcoming RCCL cruise is around Holy Week (one month from now) -- let's see how all of this unfolds.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

 

Hi Gunther and Uta

We are also on a RCCL (The Mariner) to the holy land departing April 29 and are somewhat concerned as all of us should be. One never knows what may or may not happen during armed conflict. We have never done the holy land and have been looking forward to it very much. If RCCL cancels that is one thing but if they decide to substitute a western Med then we are screwed as we have done that a number of times.

We can only hope for the best.

PS

Are you on the 29 April cruise?

[pcur]

If RCCL cancels that is one thing but if they decide to substitute a western Med then we are screwed as we have done that a number of times. We can only hope for the best.

 

When RCCL does a substitution they always give the passengers the choice of staying with the cruise, getting a refund, or getting a credit for a future cruise. Not the original cruise you signed up for, but they do attempt to take care of you.

[pcur]

*I am cross-posting this because for some reason this thread is more active than the other one, even though the other one is older*

 

Ok, please no one flame me for this, as I am posting some very real concerns here that even sound ridiculous to me- but I want to voice them just in case, because I honestly feel Gaddafi is out of his mind and capable of anything.

 

So here is my question:

What if he does start attacking cruise ships in the same way that Bin Ladin attacked American passenger planes for 9/11? Or worse yet, what if previous terrorist forces - like Bin Ladin's - see this as an opportunity to attack cruise ships as a way of furthering his cause? Perhaps either trying to pin it on Lybia, or even allying with Lybian forces for tourist terrorism? :(

 

I am scheduled for Nav OTS out of Rome the first week of June, so we'd be in the Eastern Med, North of Lybia, touring Greece and Turkey- hot spots for war protests and directly across the Med Sea from Lybia.

 

Thank you for any civil discussion...

 

No one else has addressed your question, so I will:

 

First of all I don't think he's got the resources any more to go outside and attack. He's all tied up trying to keep it together in Libya, and not doing too well. His infrastructure to get things organized and done is falling apart.

 

I don't think there will be any cruise ships going in the area you are talking about if things are still hot and heavy by early June. If you refer to what RCCL is doing right now with Egyptian cruises, you will see that they have changed itineraries all the way into October 2011. So, keep and eye on their home page about Eastern Mediterranean cruises.

[NordicPrince]

...The biggest irony is that somehow the return to Libya of the only person to be tried has somehow been blamed on the original poster.

 

Nowhere was this stated by anyone posting.

 

Many people do agree that now is not the time to traveling around into geo-political hot-spots.

[Deeliteful]

I agree with Mrs Miggins.

 

My next cruise is 18th April Italy, Greece and Turkey. I am going but if RCI change the itinerary so be it.

[manu4evr]

No one else has addressed your question, so I will

I thought I did in post #32. Guess I was having another senior moment.

[pcur]

I thought I did in post #32. Guess I was having another senior moment.

 

Nope. My bad. It was MY senior moment, not yours! You can have yours later. :D

[Pami1968]

I just booked an Eastern Med cruise last week that sails in May. I honestly didn't really think about this BEFORE booking, but now that I AM booked, I have experienced momentary pangs.

 

However, I think the chances of something bad happening to/with my ship are not any higher than the chances that my plane will drop out of the sky. And I think that if something were to happen, at least I would be doing what I love doing so much when it does - namely cruising, travelling, and seeing new exciting locations.

 

I'm going, and that's that.