Corruption in Mexico

[luvthebalcony]

Just returned from a cruise to Mexican Riviera. After having been to Mexico many times by sea and air it seems the corruption is becoming a major problem. Returning to the cruise terminal in PV 4 of us in a rented Jeep were stopped and involved in a Shakedown by Mexican Police. Told we were speeding ( Not!) doing same speed as all other vehicles in traffic were pulled over. Driver given a breathalyzer by blowing into officers hand, I'm sure a very accurate test. Told we could pay a fine of 800 pesos in 2 days ( officer knew we were on the ship and leaving that night ) or could pay a 500 peso fine on the spot. Handed him 50 dollars and he would not take it but told driver to put it in his ticket book. Ticket book closed, license handed back and off he went 50 dollars richer. When rental turned in agent told of what happened and asked if we had officers name. Not wearing a name badge, go figure. Says it has been a big problem and getting worse. Guess we will be looking to go elsewhere for vacation next time. Also told of a group of men in Cabo shook down for 1000 dollars for being intoxicated in public. Never had a problem before and love mexico and feel sorry for the honest citizens who need the tourist dollars but between corruption and the drug cartel problem we will be staying away for awhile. Not wanting to rant here just trying to let travelers know to be careful !

[dominichunter]

Just returned from a cruise to Mexican Riviera. After having been to Mexico many times by sea and air it seems the corruption is becoming a major problem. Returning to the cruise terminal in PV 4 of us in a rented Jeep were stopped and involved in a Shakedown by Mexican Police. Told we were speeding ( Not!) doing same speed as all other vehicles in traffic were pulled over. Driver given a breathalyzer by blowing into officers hand, I'm sure a very accurate test. Told we could pay a fine of 800 pesos in 2 days ( officer knew we were on the ship and leaving that night ) or could pay a 500 peso fine on the spot. Handed him 50 dollars and he would not take it but told driver to put it in his ticket book. Ticket book closed, license handed back and off he went 50 dollars richer. When rental turned in agent told of what happened and asked if we had officers name. Not wearing a name badge, go figure. Says it has been a big problem and getting worse. Guess we will be looking to go elsewhere for vacation next time. Also told of a group of men in Cabo shook down for 1000 dollars for being intoxicated in public. Never had a problem before and love mexico and feel sorry for the honest citizens who need the tourist dollars but between corruption and the drug cartel problem we will be staying away for awhile. Not wanting to rant here just trying to let travelers know to be careful !

Please post this on the CCL thread. Have been to PV 8 times w/ Carnival w/o a problem. Going again in May. I think we'll be more cautious this time.

Tom

[CWcruisers]

Did you report this to the Port Agent or Guest Services on the ship? I know you didn't have an officer's name, but they need to know so they let the authorities know they are in danger of loosing cruise ship business if something like that continues to happen.

 

This is a good reason to have your cruise ship info with you. I would have called the Port Agent right there in front of the officer. That may have made the whole thing go away.

[Hibiscus13]

This is not a new practice. We have friends who have been driving in Mexico for years and report that this kind of 'shake down' has been used for a number of years in lots of different areas in Mexico.

 

We experienced it ourselves in 2008 when we drove the coastal highway from Mazatlan to Huatulco. We were on our way out of Acapulco when we were pulled over for a 'rear view mirror' violation. We knew it was a bogus stop but like you said, the quickest way to get out was to pay the 600 peso 'ticket'.

 

We've learned our lesson, we carry fake documentation (in case the cop wants to keep our license), we only have 200 pesos in our car wallet, and a good deterent is to ask the officer to write down his badge number, name, where he stopped you, what the offence was, etc. Most will not do it and may be inclined to let you go.

[Taxguy77]

Above post is accurate and has a good tip I didn't use (and that includes a couple of weeks ago!).

In the 60s I was importing from Mexico. One of the truck owners got a call one of his drivers was in jail (almost) in Mexico. He went there prepared; $45 in one pocket, $30 in another, $50 in 1 boot and another $100 in the other. Another time I was tired and ornery and decided I would not pay "mordida" to a clerk in the airport; finally he realized that I was probably paid by the month and didn't care if I flew that day or the next and HE could lose his job by keeping a person with a ticket off the plane. :):confused: Did I win?:confused:

He never got a dime from me, but I realized paying can smooth your trip a lot in Mexico!:);)

[caribbean52010]

Just returned from a cruise to Mexican Riviera. After having been to Mexico many times by sea and air it seems the corruption is becoming a major problem. Returning to the cruise terminal in PV 4 of us in a rented Jeep were stopped and involved in a Shakedown by Mexican Police. Told we were speeding ( Not!) doing same speed as all other vehicles in traffic were pulled over. Driver given a breathalyzer by blowing into officers hand, I'm sure a very accurate test. Told we could pay a fine of 800 pesos in 2 days ( officer knew we were on the ship and leaving that night ) or could pay a 500 peso fine on the spot. Handed him 50 dollars and he would not take it but told driver to put it in his ticket book. Ticket book closed, license handed back and off he went 50 dollars richer. When rental turned in agent told of what happened and asked if we had officers name. Not wearing a name badge, go figure. Says it has been a big problem and getting worse. Guess we will be looking to go elsewhere for vacation next time. Also told of a group of men in Cabo shook down for 1000 dollars for being intoxicated in public. Never had a problem before and love mexico and feel sorry for the honest citizens who need the tourist dollars but between corruption and the drug cartel problem we will be staying away for awhile. Not wanting to rant here just trying to let travelers know to be careful !

 

We were in Cabo a few years ago and had a car rental. I was driving back to our resort and just on the edge of town was a set of traffic lights. It was green as I was going thru, then yellow fashed faster than I could blink, and it was red.

 

Yes I got pulled over. Took my drivers license and started to write a ticket telling me I would need to go to San Jose in three days to pay the fine. When asked if there was another way, he said I could pay him. We scrambled to gather the $100 between us (probably could have gotten it for less) and gave it to him. He gave back my license and never did finish with the ticket.

 

We drove one block forward and saw another car (in a rental car like ours) pulled over getting a ticket also.

 

A year later some friends of our had the same happen to them in Cabo at the same spot.

 

It happens all the time in Mexico. You can't argue with them as we have no rights in their county.

 

Being careful has nothing to do with it. Being lucky has everything to do with it.

[CWcruisers]

This is so sad, but we are working on it, so please, come back.:o

[Keith1010]

Just my own view but I would not rent a vehicle in Mexico and this view on my part is nothing new. For example, you don't want to get into an accident and yet something that is far worse in terms of injuries, etc. It's just not worth the risk.

 

Keith

[quincytoo]

This is not a new practice. We have friends who have been driving in Mexico for years and report that this kind of 'shake down' has been used for a number of years in lots of different areas in Mexico.

 

We experienced it ourselves in 2008 when we drove the coastal highway from Mazatlan to Huatulco. We were on our way out of Acapulco when we were pulled over for a 'rear view mirror' violation. We knew it was a bogus stop but like you said, the quickest way to get out was to pay the 600 peso 'ticket'.

 

We've learned our lesson, we carry fake documentation (in case the cop wants to keep our license), we only have 200 pesos in our car wallet, and a good deterent is to ask the officer to write down his badge number, name, where he stopped you, what the offence was, etc. Most will not do it and may be inclined to let you go.

 

Good advice about writing down the badge number, name, etc, the fake documentation I would be worried about.....

 

If you truly know you were not at fault then insist on the ticket. Yes they take your license but that ticket becomes your license until you get the license back. If you are leaving the country then get the license replaced and pay off the ticket when you get home, Mexican cities police offices have a phone and email address.

People that pay the bribe are only making it worse. .

[Hibiscus13]

In the 2.5 years that we've been living and driving in Mexico since that happened, we've never had an issue with our fake licenses. We use them as ID everywhere (other than getting on a plane, obviously) and nobody knows the difference. I do always keep a copy of my FM3 and permit in the vehicle - if it's a legitimate offence we would never try to pass off our fakes to the cops. The military check points that we pass through on a regular basis don't even look at our documentation.

 

On the car rental side - we've stopped renting cars in any foreign countries, not only have we had a scary situation in Mexico, but in Aruba as well. If you are not familiar with local laws, traffic, roads in the area, driving can just be challenging.

[Ine]

Confusing for tourists about driving a car in PVR might be the different speed on some roads.

On e.g. Francisco Medina (a section of that is between the port and town, also the road going north) speedlimit is 60 on the central section. On the lateral (the road parallel to this) only 40. Most people on the lateral drive faster then 40, risking a ticket. You will however see just a few signs about the speedlimit.

I know plenty of roads around here where people drive too fast, and police gives tickets also to locals.

Common is the police takes your driverslicence, which can be picked up at the station the next morning after paying.

Being a tourist that leaves the town that same day, many offer to pay to keep the licence and avoid a visit to the station with possible languageproblems.

I agree with quincytoo try to stick to the rules, you donot need to bribe.

[dforeigner]

 

The top police commander in the central state of Mexico acknowledged that officers extorted money from motorists and said he understood why in a video released Monday by the Reforma newspaper.

 

State Security Agency, or ASE, director Rogelio Cortes Cruz said his only concern was that officers not commit “excesses.”

 

“I’m not appalled if they grab a peso or two pesos. It’s their problem, but the day they grab them, that dude and you, you’re going to the slammer,” the chief said in a secretly taped conversation with police officers.

 

Cortes Cruz admitted that some officers carried altered ticket books that showed fines up to 600 times larger than the law allowed, Reforma reported on Sunday.

 

Noting that some cops demand as much as 15,000 pesos ($1,270) for an infraction, he said: “Then that’s an excess.”

 

That is the kind of behavior that harms the agency because it draws attention to corrupt practices, Cortes Cruz said.

 

“I’m waiting with a machete to see which dude falls,” the chief said.

 

The ASE commander said he was aware that police salaries were low and hard to live on, making it understandable that officers would squeeze motorists for bribes.

 

Cortes Cruz, a career police officer, has been in charge of the ASE since last year and has held numerous command posts since 1998.

 

Mexico state, which surrounds the Federal District and forms part of the Mexico City metropolitan area, is one of the regions most affected by drug cartels and other organized crime groups, security experts say.

 

Motorists in Mexico state and other parts of the country are used to being stopped by police officers looking to pocket some money.

 

Officers try to conceal their intentions, sometimes stopping a vehicle for 20-30 minutes until the driver pays some money to avoid a larger fine.

 

The non-governmental organization Transparencia Mexicana estimates that 197 million bribes totaling more than $2 billion were paid in Mexico in 2007.

 

FYI: this happens all over Mexico.

[Acapulco Flores]

In Acapulco you are equally unsafe in a Rental car as you are on the beach. I see Transito Police stopping people all the time and I see the money being placed in the ticket book. One motorcycle transito on bike #34 does it all the time. I see him do it daily. It must be working out well for him, I see his house and it has a whole new addition being built.

 

Sitting on a beach enjoying your day just makes you a target. The Municipal police are very bad about shaking down tourists on the beaches. They threaten to arrest you if you do not pay them for a made up charge. It has happened to me 3 times.

[gomexico]

In Acapulco you are equally unsafe in a Rental car as you are on the beach. ... Sitting on a beach enjoying your day just makes you a target. The Municipal police are very bad about shaking down tourists on the beaches. They threaten to arrest you if you do not pay them for a made up charge. It has happened to me 3 times.

 

In my 29-years of visiting Acapulco, probably 100 visits or more to the various beaches, I've never seen nor heard of police shaking-down tourists or otherwise threatening them at a beach area except once when a group of local young men I was sitting with and whom (they) were smoking pot they asked me for MX$50 to pay a supposed policeman what we might call a "street fine," a bribe not to be arrested. Police throughout Mexico are corrupt so I don't doubt something like this may happen, but I suspect it's rare and it's also not something I've ever heard mentioned by other tourists. It could be, though, something Mexican tourists encounter more than foreign tourists - because most tourists in Mexico are from Mexico and many are uneducated, poor or otherwise suceptable to the threats of real or imposter policemen. Thanks.

[Hlitner]

We read the OPs post with some amusement (we live in Mexico 2 months a year) and could not figure out what is the news about the post. Police corruption is endemic in Mexico (they are poorly paid) and it is just a part of the culture. As to the OPs bad experience, we have a friend who handles these bribes with no problem. Sure, they will ask for 500 Pesos and you really do not need to pay that amount. You could simply give them 200 Pesos (about $18) and tell them (with a smile) that they can take that money or have your drivers license. If they take the license then you normally have to go to the appropriate location (which can be quite a distance) and pay the legal fine (much less then 500 Pesos) to get your license returned. On the other hand it is a lot cheaper to just let them keep the license and get a replacement when you get home which is the best approach for cruise passengers who are not in port long enough to go pay the the legal fine. If it makes you feel better we met an American who lives in Puerto Vallarta who decided to fight this system after he got stopped by the same cop 3 times in less then a month. It took him more then a year, but he finally win his case and the police office was finally transferred to a different city. When the judge issued his favorable opinion he said that anyone who would go through all the trouble to fight a traffic fine must be telling the truth.

 

Hank

[Hibiscus13]

I find it funny that people are shocked that there is corruption among police in Mexico. Take a look in your own backyards in Canada and the US - you don't think there is corruption closer to home? One would be naive to think that is not the case.

[gomexico]

I find it funny that people are shocked that there is corruption among police in Mexico. Take a look in your own backyards in Canada and the US - you don't think there is corruption closer to home? One would be naive to think that is not the case.

 

The corruption in Mexico is on a scale unmatched in Canada, the United States and probably most developed nations. To suggest otherwise is just making excuses for a large criminal element which victimizes tens of millions of people in Mexico yearly.

[Hlitner]

I find it funny that people are shocked that there is corruption among police in Mexico. Take a look in your own backyards in Canada and the US - you don't think there is corruption closer to home? One would be naive to think that is not the case.

 

WOW! Not sure there is any equivlency to this argument. I will guarantee that if you try to offer money to most US or Canadian Cops for a traffic stop you will quickly find yourself on the way to jail or with a nasty citation (attempting to bribe a law enforcement officer is a felony in most states). We love living in Mexico, but also understand that police (and other public official) corruption is just part of the culture and tolerated as "business as usual" in most situations. As an aside, the US Consul in Puerto Vallarta (I think his office is now in Nuevo has actually asked folks to report corruption incidents to his office so he can raise the issue when he meets with Mexican officials. Now he does not say he can do anything or intervene, but apparently he is willing to talk to officials about the problem. And we are sure that when he is long gone from Mexico (on to his next assignment) the corruption will be going on as usual.

 

Hank

[Hibiscus13]

I'm saying there are degrees of corruption - not just in Mexico. My brother in law is a retired city cop, my friend's husband is an RCMP. The stories they tell would surprise a lot of people. Does it look the same as it does in Mexico? No - but, there is corruption and it's not uncommon.

[quincytoo]

I'm saying there are degrees of corruption - not just in Mexico. My brother in law is a retired city cop, my friend's husband is an RCMP. The stories they tell would surprise a lot of people. Does it look the same as it does in Mexico? No - but, there is corruption and it's not uncommon.

 

I so agree with you.....My uncle was a high ranking member of CSIS (Canadian version of CIA, (BIL was a RCMP, many friends and in-laws of police and RCMP) and yes corruption is alive and breathing in Canada, not to the same levels as Mexico but still breathing, at least. Not to say every law in enforcement officer is bad but I say the same about any law enforcement officer anywhere....even in Mexico,granted there is more in Mexico, but to suggest there is none in the States or Canada is so not true.

 

As I always have said in the past. you get a ticket anywhere, IF you believe you are in the right, then fight it.......My sister in Canada just had a $360 ticket reduced to nothing, because she felt she was unlawfully ticketed.

 

I would NOT offer money to a Cand or Amer traffic officer just the same I would bribe or offer money to a Mexican traffic officer. If I am deserving of the ticket then take my license and give me a ticket, no way, am I paying a La Mordida anywhere

[lovevacadays]

I so agree with you.....My uncle was a high ranking member of CSIS (Canadian version of CIA, (BIL was a RCMP, many friends and in-laws of police and RCMP) and yes corruption is alive and breathing in Canada, not to the same levels as Mexico but still breathing, at least. Not to say every law in enforcement officer is bad but I say the same about any law enforcement officer anywhere....even in Mexico,granted there is more in Mexico, but to suggest there is none in the States or Canada is so not true.

 

As I always have said in the past. you get a ticket anywhere, IF you believe you are in the right, then fight it.......My sister in Canada just had a $360 ticket reduced to nothing, because she felt she was unlawfully ticketed.

 

I would NOT offer money to a Cand or Amer traffic officer just the same I would bribe or offer money to a Mexican traffic officer. If I am deserving of the ticket then take my license and give me a ticket, no way, am I paying a La Mordida anywhere

 

Hey there, how are you doing? Are you sure you and QT can't make a very last minute reservation on the Sapphire? We have a really great role call for the 30th. I'm really looking forward to the cruise. I still have your restaurant suggestions so my niece and I are trying to decide what we are going to do in PV.

 

I was just reading this thread. My dad and uncle used to travel to Mexico every year from Arizona. They also spend alot of time in Mazatlan as that was their favorite Mexican port to fish in. They had their issues a few times with tickets and having to pay their way out of things. That was back in the 70's so it's not a new thing. It didn't keep them from going. I've had so many people telling me I shouldn't be cruising to Mexico. I just tell them that we will use good judgement as we would in Southern California.

[Taxguy77]

Hey there, how are you doing? Are you sure you and QT can't make a very last minute reservation on the Sapphire? We have a really great role call for the 30th. I'm really looking forward to the cruise. I still have your restaurant suggestions so my niece and I are trying to decide what we are going to do in PV.

 

I was just reading this thread. My dad and uncle used to travel to Mexico every year from Arizona. They also spend alot of time in Mazatlan as that was their favorite Mexican port to fish in. They had their issues a few times with tickets and having to pay their way out of things. That was back in the 70's so it's not a new thing. It didn't keep them from going. I've had so many people telling me I shouldn't be cruising to Mexico. I just tell them that we will use good judgement as we would in Southern California.

 

I drove that road a lot of times in the 60s and never had a problem.

Now I live next to the border and won't go a mile into the country. I do still go to Neuvo Progresso to the drugstore and restaurant, but wouldn't cross at any other point.

It's a shame as the people are VERY clean and fun-loving, but a few cartel members have ruined a great country.