Build quality of the shipyard, new RCI ships being built in Germany

[Saracruise]

It's possible that Project Sunshine, may use the hull design of the solstice class, so design costs would be cheaper

 

That's what I was thinking, I have heard that Project Sunshine will be on the Solstice Class hull so why not use the shipyard that is familiar with that so called model.

[papakaiser]

I was thinking that another possibility for choice of shipyard could be the financing. I remember reading that both Oasis and Allure received financing with the involvement of the Finnish government. Could be that was no longer available or the terms were not as advantageous as other sources associated with Meyer.

You may have hit the nail on the head. Think back a year or two. After financing for Oasis and Allure were finalized, RCI let it be known that their creditors wanted RCI's debt paid down, before more ships were built. This Finnish government may not have wanted to jump back in this soon after the Oasis/Allure package.

[kbmeow]

I think German cars have great build quality. If they put that same effort into ships it will be great

[Wendy-Europe]

Hi

 

I am sure all shipyards are proud of their work.

 

I think, when a big cruise company like RCCL orders a new ship (or more than one), there are many reasons for the decisions.

 

Price, workmanship, availibility, investors, maybe subsidies....

 

If you visit Meyers website, you will see: they are really experienced building cruiseships and the shipyard was founded in 1795 - family owned in 6. generation!

 

http://www.meyerwerft.com/page.asp?lang=d&main=3&subs=0&did=1877

 

They delivered the

 

Radiance of the Seas, RCI 2001

Brilliance of the Seas, RCI 2002

Serenade of the Seas, RCI 2003

Jewel of the Seas, RCI 2004

 

three more ships for Celebrity (two more in queue), the Disney Dream (one more in queue).

 

I am sure, the company was fully satisfied - so they are a loyal returning customer - like many in this forum....

 

But I am sure, RCCL will disperse their orders to offer their guests different productlines to meet their expectations....

 

Wendy

[Aquahound]

It's possible that Project Sunshine, may use the hull design of the solstice class, so design costs would be cheaper

 

That's exactly what came to my mind.

 

The yards in Finland are great at what they do. They have made several very large ships with huge, open, indoor promenades, not only for RCI, but also for Silja. The design similarities can be seen in the two lines. (Sorry, but I don't remember specifically what was built at stx, turku, or Aker).

 

RCI has used this German yard in the past and it has proven very successful. Possibly, RCI is answering the cries for another class of Radiance-type ships.

[Paulxyz2004]

Just as STX, Meyerwerft has a long business relation with RCCL.

 

As already stated some very succesful classes of ships have been built in Papenburg for RCCL. The first ones I think were the century class ships for X, followed by Radiance Class for RCI and still in progress Sostice class for X again.

It´s correct that the Meyerwerft is limited sizewise and could not have built Oasis. However Freedom class could have been built at Meyerwerft (sizewise).

 

As for the reasons why Meyerwerft or STX, I would think it´s always a package decision. Part of the package will be of course the price, but I would think there is other parts like timing, ship architecture, ability to match the ideas of RCLL and probably reputation and reliability of the shipyard.

I know before getting into the final decision and contracting Mr. Fain visits the shipyard in Papenburg several times to discuss details and I´m sure the same is done at STX.

[hotrod1954]

Hi

 

RCCL cannot get a ship size of an oasis of the seas or allure of the seas from Meyer shipyard – you have to bring the ships from the shipyard to the open sea – along the river Ems.

 

So size is the limit. Biggest ship ever at the moment was Disney Dream with 128.000BRT.

 

Meyer itself maybe could be able to build bigger ships – but cannot bring them to the open sea.

 

Quality is wonderful – if you ever sailed with Norwegian Dawn you know what I am talking about. (for sure: you get, what you order...)

 

Think about driving a Mercedes Benz or BMW .....

 

Wendy

I thought RCL had to take the liberty or Exployer to Germany to have its azipod changed due to dirt in the berrings. was this the same shipyard we are talking about.

[Goldryder]

I thought RCL had to take the liberty or Exployer to Germany to have its azipod changed due to dirt in the berrings. was this the same shipyard we are talking about.

 

Generally Meyer-Werft build the ships, Lloyd-Werft or Blomn + Voss stretches & repairs/maintains the ships.

 

Around 10 years ago Lloyd-Werft built them too, but they now concentrate on repairs, refurbishments & stretching.

 

B+V in Hamburg deal with Meyer-Werft newbuilds for any tweaks required before handover and after sea trials.

 

Build quality in German yards is far superior to that of any of the French or Finnish yards...Meyer is especially different in that regard thanks to every ship being built indoors, thus out of the weather & all the damage that can occur from steel being outside for months on end.

 

Fincantieri, who build most of the CCL group ships in several yards across Italy are in a critical stage currently, their order books are drying up rapidly and some yards...like those in Finland...are on short time or closed altogether until new orders come in. Many of the yards are turning towards ferry & commercial shipping now as a stopgap til the cruise capacity drops...at the moment (and forseeable future) there are way too many cruise ship berths than their are bodies to fill them. The shipbuilders have been working their guts off for the last few years on newbuilds and that orderbook...except at Meyer Werft...is shrinking rapidly.

 

Most yards are now going more in the direction of repair/refurbishment where there is more money to be earned....and a regular stream of work available, whether it be standard maintenance, annual refresh/refurb, accident damage repair, breakdown repair etc. There are so many ships in service now that the reapir facilities are the ones working overtime nowadays.

[EVALUATOR]

Generally Meyer-Werft build the ships, Lloyd-Werft or Blomn + Voss stretches & repairs/maintains the ships.

 

Around 10 years ago Lloyd-Werft built them too, but they now concentrate on repairs, refurbishments & stretching.

 

B+V in Hamburg deal with Meyer-Werft newbuilds for any tweaks required before handover and after sea trials.

 

Build quality in German yards is far superior to that of any of the French or Finnish yards...Meyer is especially different in that regard thanks to every ship being built indoors, thus out of the weather & all the damage that can occur from steel being outside for months on end.

 

Fincantieri, who build most of the CCL group ships in several yards across Italy are in a critical stage currently, their order books are drying up rapidly and some yards...like those in Finland...are on short time or closed altogether until new orders come in. Many of the yards are turning towards ferry & commercial shipping now as a stopgap til the cruise capacity drops...at the moment (and forseeable future) there are way too many cruise ship berths than their are bodies to fill them. The shipbuilders have been working their guts off for the last few years on newbuilds and that orderbook...except at Meyer Werft...is shrinking rapidly.

 

Most yards are now going more in the direction of repair/refurbishment where there is more money to be earned....and a regular stream of work available, whether it be standard maintenance, annual refresh/refurb, accident damage repair, breakdown repair etc. There are so many ships in service now that the reapir facilities are the ones working overtime nowadays.

 

As for new ships, All That Cruise, which is allegedly buying a 74,000 ton used ship similar to a Sovereign class vessel to start operating in January 2012, has stated they will add a 100,000 ton ship in 2014.

 

After that they plan to expand with four 150,000 ton ships from 2016-2020.

It would be interesting to see where they might come from.

 

There are a lot of "used" 70,000 ton ships in service. There are not that many 150,000 ton ones.

 

Wonder what shipyard might want to stick their neck out for that project if it is a new build.

[Goldryder]

As for new ships, All That Cruise, which is allegedly buying a 74,000 ton used ship similar to a Sovereign class vessel to start operating in January 2012, has stated they will add a 100,000 ton ship in 2014.

 

After that they plan to expand with four 150,000 ton ships from 2016-2020.

It would be interesting to see where they might come from.

 

There are a lot of "used" 70,000 ton ships in service. There are not that many 150,000 ton ones.

 

Wonder what shipyard might want to stick their neck out for that project if it is a new build.

 

I personally still have my doubts about the denial from RCCL regarding the sale/transfer of Majesty/Monarch to Korea.

 

Main reason, as I have stated before, is why would a company the size of RCCL sit back and allow another company use their publicity material (in this case photo's) of one of their ships and not go for the lawyers under copyright infringement?

 

The website for the Korean outfit is still active and still using RCCL's images of the exterior/interior of an RCCL owned ship.

 

Seriously...if there was no truth in the Korean story, why is it that injunctions against the use of that material not in the courts (it would have been granted within hours of the images appearing) and why are RCCL being really quiet about the whole saga?

 

I think there is a sale/transfer and I believe that the Korean media let the cat out of the bag before RCCL wanted it.....that is the only reason why a firm the size of RCCL has not jumped all over the Korean outfit & had their website pulled.

 

However....

 

There is one cruise ship in Asia that could be the Korean mystery ship. She has been in lay up for 3 years off Syros, but she is smaller than 74000 tonnes...that ship is Norwegian Dream.

 

Time will tell on the Korean mystery though.

 

Also there is word that Carnival Cruise Lines are looking to go smaller again, along the lines of the size of the Fantasy class. Cahill mentioned this on the Carnival Magic's inaugural last week.

 

So maybe the lines are finally realising that too many berths, forcing massive discounting, and ships that are too big - and thus take away the true ethos of a cruise - are no longer the way to go.

 

No bad thing in the current economic climate.

[EVALUATOR]

I personally still have my doubts about the denial from RCCL regarding the sale/transfer of Majesty/Monarch to Korea.

 

Main reason, as I have stated before, is why would a company the size of RCCL sit back and allow another company use their publicity material (in this case photo's) of one of their ships and not go for the lawyers under copyright infringement?

 

The website for the Korean outfit is still active and still using RCCL's images of the exterior/interior of an RCCL owned ship.

 

Seriously...if there was no truth in the Korean story, why is it that injunctions against the use of that material not in the courts (it would have been granted within hours of the images appearing) and why are RCCL being really quiet about the whole saga?

 

I think there is a sale/transfer and I believe that the Korean media let the cat out of the bag before RCCL wanted it.....that is the only reason why a firm the size of RCCL has not jumped all over the Korean outfit & had their website pulled.

 

However....

 

There is one cruise ship in Asia that could be the Korean mystery ship. She has been in lay up for 3 years off Syros, but she is smaller than 74000 tonnes...that ship is Norwegian Dream.

 

Time will tell on the Korean mystery though.

 

Also there is word that Carnival Cruise Lines are looking to go smaller again, along the lines of the size of the Fantasy class. Cahill mentioned this on the Carnival Magic's inaugural last week.

 

So maybe the lines are finally realising that too many berths, forcing massive discounting, and ships that are too big - and thus take away the true ethos of a cruise - are no longer the way to go.

 

No bad thing in the current economic climate.

 

The Dream is nowhere near the dimensions of the ship they said they are buying. The 880' x 106' and 1193 cabins with 2744 pax capacity points to a Sovereign class.

 

Time will tell on that one. All That Cruise is supposed to get a conditional operating license from Korea MLTM "on or before May 20".

 

Could be an interesting next couple of weeks in the 74,000 ton mystery ship.

[Goldryder]

The Dream is nowhere near the dimensions of the ship they said they are buying. The 880' x 106' and 1193 cabins with 2744 pax capacity points to a Sovereign class.

 

Time will tell on that one. All That Cruise is supposed to get a conditional operating license from Korea MLTM "on or before May 20".

 

Could be an interesting next couple of weeks in the 74,000 ton mystery ship.

 

Dream is around 50000 tonnes, so of course she is smaller than the one advertised in Korea. But at the moment she is the only cruise ship of reasonable size that is out of service...and her voyage to Asia started a few days prior to the Korean media announcement regarding their cruise venture.

 

It is probably sheer coincidence...but as one who keeps a close eye on cruise ship movements...that is, from one owner/operator to another...it just seemed a little odd that a ship which has been used as a taxi tween the Greek islands & Piraeus for the last 3 years suddenly heads off to Asia at the same time the news is broken that a new Korean upstart is about to float their boat.

 

However.....the mystery of Majesty/Monarch will no doubt be brought out into the open soon enough. RCCL could have egg on face if the blog entry that denied the claim is then turned around...as you say...time will inevitably tell on that one.

 

But in respect to the German yards getting the work, it's most likely that its down to economics...the best bang for the buck seems to be eminating from Meyer-Werft...otherwise why would Disney, NCL, Celebrity, AIDA, RCI etc all have ships on the order book there?

 

Meyer must be doing it right and, most importantly, at the right price/completion date. Out of all the yards, they are the only one which has a bulging orderbook into the next 4-5 years. Has to say something about them, doesn't it?

[wwcruisers]

One of the earliest rumors that I heard about the new Sunshine Class was that it would be built on the hull of the X Solstice Class ships. Since those are out of Meyer Weft, it would make sense to have the new RC class built there, as well. :cool:

[PeterPan]

The length and beam of Solstice class are not large enough to meet the numbers cited by Royal Caribbean. I suppose the basic hull could be stretched, but how is that really any different than building a new hull design?

 

Not being a smart*** here, does anyone have a reasonable answer to this?

 

It has been stated several times that Sunshine will be slightly larger than Freedom, but smaller than Oasis. Think "long and skinny" as I recall.:D

[Germancruiser]

If anyone get´s the chance to vivist Meyer- Werft - just take it- it is amazing. I visited while the Solstice was built- really a great experience. Almost a sensation which is covered in every press release here in germany- is when the Ships are going through the River Ems to the open Sea. Can´t wait to see how the new Sunshine Class looks like. I love the amount of glas they used for their Radiance Class. Can´t get enough of looking out those great windows " to see the seas"!

Michael

[Dave85]

[quote name='Goldryder']
Fincantieri, who build most of the CCL group ships in several yards across Italy are in a critical stage currently, their order books are drying up rapidly and some yards...like those in Finland...are on short time or closed altogether until new orders come in. Many of the yards are turning towards ferry & commercial shipping now as a stopgap til the cruise capacity drops...at the moment (and forseeable future) there are way too many cruise ship berths than their are bodies to fill them. The shipbuilders have been working their guts off for the last few years on newbuilds and that orderbook...except at Meyer Werft...is shrinking rapidly.[/quote]

Fincantieri's quality has always struck me as awful in comparison to the others. You can see a big difference even within CCL between their larger ships that were all built in Italy and the Spirit Class ships which were built in Finland. The Fincantieri ships don't seem to have aged well at all whereas the Spirit Class ships don't seem to have aged much at all.