Carnival sued over St. Thomas death

[CruiserChloe]

Nope I am well aware of the drug wars:rolleyes: Other ports are targeting cruise passengers unlike the Mexican drug wars.....yet other ports are not considered high crime ports enough to pull out.....thus no reason why they should pull out the Mexican ports....doesn't sound lamebrain to me:confused:

 

When I was in Acapulco, thugs were targeting cruise ship passengers right there at the port right in front of the ship. Imagine purse snatches and earrings ripped out of ears. That's what was happening. I know a lady that had to go to the ship's doctor that day for her ears being ripped.

 

We then went the other way and tried to walk across the elevated walkway to the fort. At the bottom of the stairs were 3 thugs who started following my Aunt and me. Luckily, coming the other way was a group with large husbands who we had met a few nights earlier on the ship. The thugs quickly disappeared. I never felt so unsafe on a cruise in all my life and we were never further than a couple hundred yards from the ship. The guys told us there were drug deals going on in and around the fort. We turned around and went right back to the ship.

 

The horror stories we heard that night were terrible.

 

And as for the drug wars, I do not care who they are targeting. Just because cruise ship passengers aren't their primary target doesn't mean I'm comfortable being in their presence. :rolleyes:

 

What's the term for tourists who are oblivious to all this and think it's all perfectly safe? Tourons? Yep.

[CWcruisers]

And this, folks, is why people get hurt. Thinking there is "no reason" for the rap a destination gets.

 

What??!! :eek:

 

11 bodies were just found along the road just outside of Mazatlan. This past January, 25 bodies were found in Acapulco, 15 or which were decapitated. A woman's body was just found in Cabo - that is, parts of her body were found over a distance of several blocks. This is all part of a massive drug war going on involving one of the most violent gangs on the planet - the Los Zetas.

 

No, these were not cruise passengers but I would say there is good reason for these places to have a "bad rap."

 

Exactly, they were not cruise ship passengers. So why do the cruise lines pull ships from Mexico ports and not from St Thomas where an actual cruise ship passenger was killed.

 

If Carnival was truly worried about liability, as they claim they were when they pulled ships from Mazatlan then they should have pulled them from St Thomas for sure, especially since, as many have stated on these boards, it's not secret that there are crime issues in St Thomas.

 

MissDiva1 Thank you for your support. There are many happy Americans and Canadians and a few Europeans happily enjoying the good life in Cabo. You would not regret your decision.

[MissDiva1]

When I was in Acapulco, thugs were targeting cruise ship passengers right there at the port right in front of the ship. Imagine purse snatches and earrings ripped out of ears. That's what was happening. I know a lady that had to go to the ship's doctor that day for her ears being ripped.

 

We then went the other way and tried to walk across the elevated walkway to the fort. At the bottom of the stairs were 3 thugs who started following my Aunt and me. Luckily, coming the other way was a group with large husbands who we had met a few nights earlier on the ship. The thugs quickly disappeared. I never felt so unsafe on a cruise in all my life and we were never further than a couple hundred yards from the ship. The guys told us there were drug deals going on in and around the fort. We turned around and went right back to the ship.

 

The horror stories we heard that night were terrible.

 

And as for the drug wars, I do not care who they are targeting. Just because cruise ship passengers aren't their primary target doesn't mean I'm comfortable being in their presence. :rolleyes:

 

What's the term for tourists who are oblivious to all this and think it's all perfectly safe? Tourons? Yep.

 

Acapulco has had a history of crime for decades no secret here. Thugs are everywhere......I believe you are confusing "thugs" with "drug lords":p

Drug deals go on every day everywhere in the world.....St. Thomas has a huge problem with drugs.....we were offered it many times right on the main drag.....and do you wonder why they have armed guards outside some the all inclusives in Jamaica:confused: Not one resort in Cabo or San Jose del Cabo have armed guards:rolleyes:

Who's oblivious:confused: LOL! I am fully aware of my surroundings are you:confused: So much that I know that alot of the ports that you think are safe are not........be careful....

[friedshrimp]

I think you missed my point, and like another poster, must have missed where I said I did not support this lawsuit.

 

I'm only trying to look at it with an open mind. The court of public opinion on Cruise Critic is obviously going to side with the cruise line because we love cruising, and most of us have been on several cruises and know what level of personal responsibility is necessary for safety. However, the media in Miami and many people in and around Miami hate the cruise industry. A Miami jury could very well side with the plaintiff if a convincing argument is presented.

 

I'm not saying this to take sides and I'm not saying it's right. I'm only voicing reality.

 

Plus, the fact is, we do not know all the details of this. We do not know what correspondence took place with Carnival, their reactions, etc.

 

No, I think you miss my point........that point being that your husband is just another lawyer who will twist anyone's words or actions (defendants and jurors alike) just to win a big settlement that they don't rightly deserve. Anyone who thinks that any cruise line (and I am no cheerleader of Carnival so you won't see any pom-poms in my hands) is responsible for guests when those guests are not on ship or on a cruise line tour is cuckoo! Guests that leave the ship and do not go on a ship sponsored tour take their own fates into their own hands, plain and simple. Most guests do this without a problem, maybe they have excellent situational awareness, maybe they learn where the safe areas are and don't venture from there, maybe they are just lucky. But to even think for one moment that this family has a case against Carnival just goes to show how manipulative lawyers think they can be (and in many cases are). That is half the problem with America these days and why we have become such a litigious society.

[Cruzaholic41]

No, I think you miss my point........that point being that your husband is just another lawyer who will twist anyone's words or actions (defendants and jurors alike) just to win a big settlement that they don't rightly deserve.

 

Go back and read my posts again. Read slowly this time and try to pay attention to the part where I said my husband is a criminal attorney, not a civil attorney. He is a State prosecutor. I never said he was an expert in these matters. And while on that subject, don't you dare try to discredit him or what he does. That is crossing the line. He gets NOTHING out of winning a case.

 

And please show me where I said that either I or my husband said we agree with this lawsuit. All that was said was food for thought on just how the plaintiff in this case just might have a leg to stand on based on past events that seem frivolous, but somehow succeed (like suing Maytag for a refrig being too heavy - and winning). That's it. It was nothing more than a devil's advocate comment. Nothing more.

 

Sheesh. What is with the comprehension around here? :rolleyes:

[Cruzaholic41]

MissDiva1 Thank you for your support. There are many happy Americans and Canadians and a few Europeans happily enjoying the good life in Cabo. You would not regret your decision.

 

I would agree with you if your comment was limited to Cabo. I do agree Cabo is relatively safe. However, you said Mexico, and that is what I was contesting.

[CWcruisers]

I would agree with you if your comment was limited to Cabo. I do agree Cabo is relatively safe. However, you said Mexico, and that is what I was contesting.

 

 

The problem is with the border towns. There is alot more to Mexico. It would be like condeming the US for crime problems in LA, Detroit, NYC, etc etc.

 

Do you get my point?

 

It is not fair that the entire country of Mexico suffer the rath. CCL feels that they should pull ships from Mazatlan because of a crime that did not involve cruise ship passengers, yet St Thomas continues to benefit even though a cruise ship passenger suffered a fatalty.:confused: Sorry, I do not get it?

 

In that line of thinking, CCL could be liable because they knew there was crime in St Thomas and yet they continued to sail there. I just do not understand why Mexico is different than the Caribbean. Can someone please explain it to me?

[Nezmo]

A lot of good debate in here. However, can we leave out the personal swipes. If not I'll have the thread locked.

[MissDiva1]

I would agree with you if your comment was limited to Cabo. I do agree Cabo is relatively safe. However, you said Mexico, and that is what I was contesting.

 

I think you just made CWcruisers point.......last I heard Cabo was in Mexico.....

[bitemyfly]

I have been Visiting Mexico since I was a little boy… First trip was in the 60’s Acapulco with my parents ( right after they say some Elvis movie), did Cabo, short trips from SD to rosé Rita beach… Many border towns and throughout the Yucatan/ Caribbean side. So of coarse there are safe places in Mexico.. But the is a flippin war going on, while limited to border towns and some old tourist places ( Acapulco) its starting to creep .. Big difference to the un- organized crime in carrib, or even in the states.. in those places when police show up or when they hire armed guards the low lifes usually stay away.. in Mexico they just bring heavier fire power… it’s a war

The Mexican Gov is at a minimum not capable of restoring order or at a max involved..

Listen I love Mexico but you will see in the future more and more ships will stop calling on her ports.. because of the liability…

Infact one of the stock analysts concerns for the cruise industry is the scaling down of destinations, thru out the world middle east, Africa and yes mexico…

[Crusing Nut]

I have to tell you I read 5 pages of this topic and had to stop.

 

When I first started to cruise hubby and I went to the excursions talks. Not only were they a lot of information (sales pitches) on shopping but also we were informed of some of the local laws and what to do and what not to do.

 

For instance, in Barbados, we were told not to wear any kind of camouflage because it was against their laws. If caught wearing it, arrest would happen and there is nothing that Carnival could do. In Belize we were warned about going past that fence on our own. Believe me, we did not go past that fence.

 

Last year, I believe during a Celebrity, cruise passengers booked a CELEBRITY excursion and were held up at gun point at St Kitt's. Pax's jewelry, money and cameras were taken. Those 4 or 5 robbers did get caught. One of our stops on our very next cruise was to St Kitt's. Hubby and I went and purchased a cheap wedding band as a just in case measure. All other jewelry was left in the ships safe. (Oh Celebrity did inform St Kitts that it would pull their ships from the island if they did not increase police protection, as far as I know they did increase their police force.

 

I am not one to believe in lawsuits. I feel really bad that these parents lost their child. That sorrow has to be beyond belief, but I do not see where Carnival was at fault. Unfortunately the costs that are involved with this tragedy, should be the parents costs. I really hope that the parents can find some peace in all their tragedy.

 

In today's world, not one place is 100% safe, even in paradise and everyone should know that by now. The economy in the US is bad, just think of all these islands, how bad it truely is.

[bodog402]

GREAT POST - I sincerely hope that Carnival and every cruise lines that fails to adequately protect its passengers pay dearly for their negligence !

Only when attorneys seek financial restitution from Carnival will policy change and hopefully these same policy changes eventually will ensure everyone safety !

[Crusing Nut]

GREAT POST - I sincerely hope that Carnival and every cruise lines that fails to adequately protect its passengers pay dearly for their negligence !

Only when attorneys seek financial restitution from Carnival will policy change and hopefully these same policy changes eventually will ensure everyone safety !

 

How is Carnival or any other cruise line suppose to adequately protect their passengers?

[Cruzaholic41]

The problem is with the border towns. There is alot more to Mexico. It would be like condeming the US for crime problems in LA, Detroit, NYC, etc etc.

 

Do you get my point?

 

It is not fair that the entire country of Mexico suffer the rath. CCL feels that they should pull ships from Mazatlan because of a crime that did not involve cruise ship passengers, yet St Thomas continues to benefit even though a cruise ship passenger suffered a fatalty.:confused: Sorry, I do not get it?

 

In that line of thinking, CCL could be liable because they knew there was crime in St Thomas and yet they continued to sail there. I just do not understand why Mexico is different than the Caribbean. Can someone please explain it to me?

 

I do get your point, but also try to see mine. The girl who died in St. Thomas was not targeted as a cruise ship passenger. She died as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Mexico is the route drugs take from South and Central America on their way to the U.S. Right now, one of the most common drug routes is by water on the West coast. Acapulco is a landing area. The cartels are all up the West coast of the mainland. Cabo, not so much. However, a major cartel leader was recently arrested there.

 

U.S. Federal agents are getting killed in Mexico and on the borders as a result of this problem.

 

I will be the first to stand up and say St. Thomas is a mess. I worked there for a while, so I know what goes on around that island. It's one of the worst crime rates in the Caribbean.

[TEXASMUNK]

1. Random violence occurs.

2. Our courts are out of control, this case should have been thrown out immediately

3. I believe we need 'loser pays." Let someone suit a cruise line, tour operator, etc. Lose the case, pay the legal fees of the winner. AND make the lawyer kick in his 33%!!! Watch the frivilous lawsuit mania go away!

4. Loser pays should apply universally. Sat on a jury last year, trucking company had gotten fed up with people thinking they were an ATM machine. Flimsy case, no evidence, no nothing to indicate the truck inn question was even at the location of the accident. Jury was 12-0 in favor of the trucking company. But they incurred big $$$ costs to defend themselves...Gues who pays??/YOU and ME!!!! Those costs go right into the price of delivering goods we buy every day!

 

There is no free lunch.....

 

Sad event, but detach yourself from the horror...we have become accustomed to someone else paying for any pain or suffering we may incur in life.....we are allowing an out of control legal system to crush our own society.

[Cruzaholic41]

Sad event, but detach yourself from the horror...we have become accustomed to someone else paying for any pain or suffering we may incur in life.....we are allowing an out of control legal system to crush our own society.

 

The litigious society we live in has gotten out of control. I'm being flamed for saying this lawsuit may actually go through, not because I agree with it, but because I'm simply pointing out reality.

 

Look at the warning labels they have to put on everything nowadays. Who doesn't know a beach ball isn't a life preserver? Who doesn't know a bicycle moves when used? Look at how side effects have to be listed on medication commercials. How do you think all this came to be?

 

I agree. It really is sad.

[lmncruise]

While I am truly saddened by this child's death and can't imagine the pain her family is in, I don't think Carnival can be held responsible for her death. I think Carnival "covers" itself when it tells people repeatedly that they do not recommend that you take non-Carnival sponsored shore excursions. Once you decide to do that, you take your life (literally) in your own hands. Violence happens everywhere. And, I have to say, I am quite sure that many people do not know just how violent and dangerous St. Thomas is. On our first visit there in 1994, my DH and I were eating at a local restaurant and talking with the waitress. We were gushing at how beautiful the island was and how lucky she was to live there. She kinda laughed and commented on how dangerous of a place it was. We were shocked. You think that somehow bad things don't happen in a place that looks like paradise, right?? Well, this waitress lived on a boat and said it was common occurence for her boat to be burglarized. She put up with it for some reason- not sure why. But Carnival pumps so much money into these ports' economies, that they do have quite a bit of leverage to work with local authorities in an effort to make safer destinations for their pax. I hope that this is at least what comes out of this lawsuit and that Carnival doesn't cave and settle out of court.

[badavis_13]

Yeah, I know that if my child died a bunch of money would make it all better.

 

To play Devil's advocate, if I died, I would want my family to be as well off as humanly possible.

[CWcruisers]

So based on the comments of how dangerous Mexico is and that the cruise lines are justified in pulling ships, I think that Naples now needs to suffer an economic blow due to the following:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4502

 

I'm sorry but you cannot convince me that Mexico is any more dangerous than anywhere else in the world, and in particular, to cruise ship passengers.

[Charles4515]

]GREAT POST - I sincerely hope that Carnival and every cruise lines that fails to adequately protect its passengers pay dearly for their negligence !

Only when attorneys seek financial restitution from Carnival will policy change and hopefully these same policy changes eventually will ensure everyone safety !

 

What policy changes can ensure everyones safety? What policy change do you think needs to be made?

 

How is Carnival supposed to protect a passenger who gets off the ship and takes a local taxi like in this case?

 

I am all for cruise lines paying for neligence. In this case though where is the negligence?

[Trailhed1]

To play Devil's advocate, if I died, I would want my family to be as well off as humanly possible.

 

Fantastic Idea here is a tip, buy some Life Insurance.

Then they will be all set.

 

To Sue everyone is just getting out of hand in the USA. Too easy too many scum lawyers. Ready to make their percentage on any settlelments.

 

Ah what a country.

[CWcruisers]

I am all for cruise lines paying for neligence. In this case though where is the negligence?

 

Some would say that the negligence lies in going to a port where known crime activity occurs. Of course that would mean the end to all cruising because no where is guaranteed safe.

[Crystalbast]

So based on the comments of how dangerous Mexico is and that the cruise lines are justified in pulling ships, I think that Naples now needs to suffer an economic blow due to the following:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4502

 

I'm sorry but you cannot convince me that Mexico is any more dangerous than anywhere else in the world, and in particular, to cruise ship passengers.

 

I was on a land tour of Italy several years ago and we did not go to Naples because of its criminal reputation.

[Charles4515]

I was on a land tour of Italy several years ago and we did not go to Naples because of its criminal reputation.

 

One of the general longstanding travel tips I have read for Italy since many years ago in addition to wearing a money belt because of the pickpockets, is not to wear a Rolex or other expensive watch in the cities.

[bodog402]

What policy changes can ensure everyones safety? What policy change do you think needs to be made?

 

How is Carnival supposed to protect a passenger who gets off the ship and takes a local taxi like in this case?

 

I am all for cruise lines paying for neligence. In this case though where is the negligence?

 

It’s simple; most major corporations call it

RISK MANAGEMENT........

Carnival, like all the other cruise lines are solely interested in the bottom profit line. Obviously we live in a dangerous society but I truly

believe that Carnival should be partially held responsible for the unfortunate death

of its passenger and blame it on contributory negligence on Carnivals part.