What is princess doing?

[Iamcruzin]

They look interesting and lots going on. I'm "game", but never in an inside cabin.

 

 

 

Costa, where everyone smokes anywhere they can. Where nobody obeys rules. They are hurting because the American market has shut them out. Actually, now all the Princess smokers may go to Costa.

Princess, Carnival, HAL, and Celebrity smokers. Seems non of them are allowing smoking in staterooms anymore. I don't know about Royal Caribbean's policy.

[Maraprince]

Funny posting today on Cruise News Daily....Carnival is placing a ship year round out of NYC.

So if the American market is such a bad revenue producer, this would seem to be a foolish move on Carnival's part and go against everything that BruceMuzz posted.

 

MARAPRINCE

[Loonbeam]

A> It depends on the ship.

 

B> Carnival has a generally better onboard spend per person than Princess does and caters more to the younger crowd than Princess does, making the demographics favor them slightly.

 

Comparing Princess to Carnival is Apples to Oranges. It's a different product, and different products work better in different areas.

 

Disney is moving into NYC too, albeit with an older ship, because it puts larger families in driving range of their product, eliminating airfare costs.

 

Funny posting today on Cruise News Daily....Carnival is placing a ship year round out of NYC.

 

So if the American market is such a bad revenue producer, this would seem to be a foolish move on Carnival's part and go against everything that BruceMuzz posted.

 

MARAPRINCE

[jewopaho]

Princess, Carnival, HAL, and Celebrity smokers. Seems non of them are allowing smoking in staterooms anymore. I don't know about Royal Caribbean's policy.

Royal Caribbean's policy allows smoking on balconies, but not in staterooms ... Carnival's will mirror this. I hadn't heard about HAL joining in ... but it's definitely a trend.

[Siglee]

Ditto:)

Funny posting today on Cruise News Daily....Carnival is placing a ship year round out of NYC.

 

So if the American market is such a bad revenue producer, this would seem to be a foolish move on Carnival's part and go against everything that BruceMuzz posted.

 

MARAPRINCE

[trailercruiser]

Cruise Lines so not make any money selling cruises.

 

They only make money when they they carry passengers who spend plenty onboard.

 

Summer Caribbean cruisers are the worst spenders. We are lucky to get them to part with $40 per day.

Alaska cruisers are far better at around $100 per day.

Europe is one of the best at close to $200 per day.

 

When you look at $200 per day versus $40 per day, we can give away the cabins in Europe and still make more money than in the Caribbean.

You also deal with more drunks and smokers as I can attest to. By the way if forced I would choose carnival over RipoffCorporationIgnorant(RCI);)

[Iamcruzin]

Funny posting today on Cruise News Daily....Carnival is placing a ship year round out of NYC.

 

So if the American market is such a bad revenue producer, this would seem to be a foolish move on Carnival's part and go against everything that BruceMuzz posted.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

I haven't sailed on Carnival since 1986. If want to sail with my kids I may have to consider this. I would like to take my family on a cruise in 2013 to celebrate my son's High School Graduation. If Princess isn't sailing in the Caribbean then this may be a good option.

[cruisemom42]

Funny posting today on Cruise News Daily....Carnival is placing a ship year round out of NYC.

 

So if the American market is such a bad revenue producer, this would seem to be a foolish move on Carnival's part and go against everything that BruceMuzz posted.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

Actually, I think it perfectly bears out what he is saying. CCL is putting one ship there because there is a small demand, but it is their lower cost/entry line, because pax don't or won't spend as much.

 

When I sailed out of NY on CB a few years back, I recall that although the ship was full, the fares paid by a great many of the local area cruisers were ridiculously low.

[Iamcruzin]

Actually, I think it perfectly bears out what he is saying. CCL is putting one ship there because there is a small demand, but it is their lower cost/entry line, because pax don't or won't spend as much.

 

When I sailed out of NY on CB a few years back, I recall that although the ship was full, the fares paid by a great many of the local area cruisers were ridiculously low.

I am a local and I never saw or received any last minute deals from Princess for the 9 day CB sailings. The price was lower between May and the end of June but as far as July thru Aug never saw a deal. May and June prices were about equal to what they would charge from Jan to April out of FLL. Maybe they were sending out last minute deals for those who have to fly to the port similar to what they are doing now with Europe.

[6pack]

That's too bad! We loved embarking out of the Big Apple! This allowed us to visit New York in the summer as well as take a great caribbean cruise. It just doesn't get any better!

[Pia1913]

I am a local and I never saw or received any last minute deals from Princess for the 9 day CB sailings. The price was lower between May and the end of June but as far as July thru Aug never saw a deal. May and June prices were about equal to what they would charge from Jan to April out of FLL. Maybe they were sending out last minute deals for those who have to fly to the port similar to what they are doing now with Europe.

 

That's 'cause you were too busy doing laundry. :D Sorry Mike, and others, I just couldn't resist. My bad! :p

[whitshel]

Michele,

It depends on your definition of "doing well".

Remember that we do not make any money selling cruises.

We make money selling things to you once you get aboard.

 

If a cruise ship in Europe is only half full, it still makes far more money than a completely full ship in the Caribbean.

If we manage to fill the ship in Europe by giving away half the cabins, we still make even more money - and profit.

 

I find this hard to believe, if you look at the Carnival Financials for 2010 thier ticket revenue was 5,087 (millions) On-board and tour combined were only 1,378(millions) Im sure the profit margins on the tours and On-board are better than ticket revenue but not that much better.

 

If a ship in Europe sails half full making more than a full ship in the Caribbean why dont they just give the other half away to make money on board?

 

Obviously the cruise lines make more money in Europe and Alaska that why they move them, and they are businesses with share holders. They need to get as much out of their business as they can.

[cruisemom42]

I am a local and I never saw or received any last minute deals from Princess for the 9 day CB sailings. The price was lower between May and the end of June but as far as July thru Aug never saw a deal. May and June prices were about equal to what they would charge from Jan to April out of FLL. Maybe they were sending out last minute deals for those who have to fly to the port similar to what they are doing now with Europe.

 

On the cruise I was on (end of May), I talked to numerous folks from NY/NJ area who booked a couple of months out and got fares much lower than I ever saw (flying in from ATL). :rolleyes:

[Maraprince]

On the cruise I was on (end of May), I talked to numerous folks from NY/NJ area who booked a couple of months out and got fares much lower than I ever saw (flying in from ATL). :rolleyes:

 

 

Florida residents get much lower fares than passengers in NY because they want to have the ships as full as possible leaving the port. While there may be a temporary rate drop for some categories that are not selling as well as expected, Florida still is getting better resident rates than NYers.

 

If you saw the special TV program that was running last year on NCL (Cruises Inc. or something like that), their biggest objective was to get people to book -- no revenue from an unsold cabin -- and they were willing to drop fares in order to fill ships up. They could tell you to a penny what each passenger had to spend on board for them to make a profit. Drinks of all types (sodas were included) were "pushed" to help achieve the $ revenue goals per passenger that were set by the home office. The CD's main job was to keep the passengers in a happy mood since they spend and drink more that way. Florida is a very competitive market with passengers who can and do leave for a sailing at the drop of a hat if the price is right.

 

MARAPRINCE

[PescadoAmarillo]

Just read this thread from the start. Interesting comments! I always enjoy looking at the financial side of cruising. As well, I always respect the views of BruceMuzz and Loonbeam, who seem to know first hand the in's and out's of a cruise line P&L.

 

But the truest words spoken were that when a cruise line decides that their Elite passengers are no longer profitable, they will make them so miserable as to force them away. That is exactly what will happen. So many of us are Elite because we cruise more frugally than others, and for that I will not apologize. Stupid me if I didn't take advantage of the ridiculously low pricing. As soon as the cruise lines can find enough new passengers willing to fill their ships and spend lots onboard, we Elites will find ourselves de-perked to the point where our loyalty will fade. The future of cruising is NOT sailing small ships full of seniors to the far corners of the world. It is sailing huge ships full of active young people on short (7 days), affordable cruises. And hopefully their loyalty will be gained enough that they'll stick around when they are seniors.

 

But what continues to baffle me is the number of new ships being ordered. The last response I would imagine to excess capacity is more excess capacity. Yes, the excitement they bring is good marketing, and they are larger ships with the resulting economies of scales, but unless the smaller ships are sold, they still represent excess capacity.

[Loonbeam]

It's not just economy of scale, its economy of operation. Take Oasisbehemoth of the Seas. Thanks to technological innovations, she uses less fuel to move more people than do many large ships with smaller counts. Add in improvements in electrical usage and other areas and sometimes its cheaper to build new and operate than retrofit (and in some case the retro is not possible). The expectation is that as new ships come on line, the fleet has the option of selling older ones (a la the royal princess)

 

 

 

It's also worthy of note that most new ship builds and refits are focused not on cabin improvements, for example, but in adding revenue generating or cost reducing areas. The grand for example added that tea bar, but cabins only got a rudimentary makeover, if any.

 

Just read this thread from the start. Interesting comments! I always enjoy looking at the financial side of cruising. As well, I always respect the views of BruceMuzz and Loonbeam, who seem to know first hand the in's and out's of a cruise line P&L.

 

But the truest words spoken were that when a cruise line decides that their Elite passengers are no longer profitable, they will make them so miserable as to force them away. That is exactly what will happen. So many of us are Elite because we cruise more frugally than others, and for that I will not apologize. Stupid me if I didn't take advantage of the ridiculously low pricing. As soon as the cruise lines can find enough new passengers willing to fill their ships and spend lots onboard, we Elites will find ourselves de-perked to the point where our loyalty will fade. The future of cruising is NOT sailing small ships full of seniors to the far corners of the world. It is sailing huge ships full of active young people on short (7 days), affordable cruises. And hopefully their loyalty will be gained enough that they'll stick around when they are seniors.

 

But what continues to baffle me is the number of new ships being ordered. The last response I would imagine to excess capacity is more excess capacity. Yes, the excitement they bring is good marketing, and they are larger ships with the resulting economies of scales, but unless the smaller ships are sold, they still represent excess capacity.