Birth certificate or SS card?

[njhorseman]

I do not think that poster was belittling you. One thing to consider is that a passport is probably actually more essential for someone who is elderly than who is young. Without a passport it is time consuming and a hassle to fly back to the U.S. part-way into a cruise if some kind of emergency arises. Someone in their 80s is far more likely to experience a medical emergency that requires them to need to cut the cruise short. Without a passport significant extra steps, hassle and stress and time are involved in obtaining clearance to return to the U.S. If it was my parents in this scenario, I personally would be strongly encouraging them to obtain a passport. Only you and your parents can decide what is the right thing for you guys to do, but please take in all the information and do not dismiss opposing views as being insulting; people are simply trying to provide you with helpful information that will make life much easier for you in the unfortunate case of an emergency arising during your vacation.

 

While it may not have been belittling from a factual perspective, the tone of the post as set by the opening sentence "This is a stereotypical newbie question" followed by "I could never understand why..." was pretty offensive simply because that whole tone was totally unnecessary to convey the poster's point.

 

On almost every passport thread there seems to be a couple of posters who find it necessary to take a "holier than thou" attitude and rather than simply presenting the facts and letting the OP make his/her own decision as a presumably intelligent adult, slap the OP upside the head as is if they are some type of idiot incapable of making an intelligent decision.

[cherylandtk]

As well, keep in mind that there are closed loop cruises where a passport is required because one or more of the port stops is in a country that requires all passengers to have a valid passport, period. The US cannot require those countries to waive the requirement for US citizens who are on closed loop cruises. I've read a number of stories about passengers being left at the port because they didn't bother to make sure of what they needed. The cruise lines make darn sure to cover themselves by stating that passengers are responsible for their own documents and ID.beachchick

I am pretty sure that all of the mass market up to 10 day RT cruises from the US do not visit any countries that separately require a passport. If you know of one, please advise. The nearest place where that tends to be a problem is Brazil, which generally does not fall under the RT itineraries. A couple of the luxury lines require passports of all pax, but that is not due to the destination.

 

While I always recommend passports if asked, I also recognize that this issue is matter of personal choice; as long as a pax is making an informed, adult choice it is not anyone else's responsibility to talk them out of it or change their mind. Having the correct up-to-date facts is essential. For those who won't or choose not to stay aware of the facts, a passport is probably essential. Promoting false information as a way of encouraging passport use, is, however, probably best described as either ignorance or a scare tactic.

[greatam]

The problem, as I see it, is the cruise lines allow the BC/DL on closed loop cruises but NEVER point out that you CANNOT get back into the USA easily with JUST the BC/DL if you don't arrive via the same ship you left on. BIG downfall which effects a lot of people's thinking about passports.

 

For the person who is taking 80+ grandparents on a cruise, PLEASE encourage them to get a passport. Even if the family has to chip in to cover the cost of the passports, you will be doing yourself and your grandparents a BIG favor. If something were to happen where they needed to get off the ship (and as someone pointed out, this is more likely due to their age), they will be disoriented enough without having to deal with the passport issue. How would you get grandma and grandpa back to the USA without the passport. Something to really think about.

[scottbee]

Although I gernerally agree with what you are trying to say, you don't have your facts straight on a couple of counts:

 

(1) There are no US land border crossings that allow you to use a birth certificate and photo ID. At a minimum adults need a passport card or WHTI compliant document such as an EDL for land crossings Between the US and Canada or Mexico. Closed loop cruises are the only international travel permitting use of the BC/photo ID.

 

(2) There is a very significant area of the world where it is possible to travel from country to country without a passport...within the 25 country Schengen area in Europe...which consists of, with a couple of exceptions, the countries of the European Union. So, the US is not the only country that allows some international travel without a passport.

 

And to clarify #1 slightly. You require a Passport (or WHTI compliant document like an EDL) becuase the US government requires you to have this to re-enter the United States. The rules to enter Canada (and most Caribbean countries) is; and has always been:

 

1. Proof of US Citizenship (such as a Birth Cert)
   
2. Govt Issued Photo ID (such as Driver's License)
   
3. Documentation to return home
   

As #3 is a passport (or WHTI document); you hence require those to enter Canada (or other nearby neighbours)

 

Canada, and the Caribbean countries did not change their rules, the USA did.

[phish tales]

On a closed loop cruise to the Caribbean, will a social security card suffice as proof of citizenship or do you have to have an orginal/certified copy of your birth certificate?

 

We do not plan on getting passports.

 

why would anybody who travels at this day and age not have a passport. this is almost unbelievable......................

[njhorseman]

And to clarify #1 slightly. You require a Passport (or WHTI compliant document like an EDL) becuase the US government requires you to have this to re-enter the United States. The rules to enter Canada (and most Caribbean countries) is; and has always been:

 

1. Proof of US Citizenship (such as a Birth Cert)
   
2. Govt Issued Photo ID (such as Driver's License)
   
3. Documentation to return home
   

As #3 is a passport (or WHTI document); you hence require those to enter Canada (or other nearby neighbours)

 

Canada, and the Caribbean countries did not change their rules, the USA did.

 

Sorry...but where did I say anything that would even remotely attribute the rules changes to Canada or the Caribbean counties, and for that matter why is it relevant to this discussion? Whether the rules are due to Canadian requirements, Caribbean country requirements or US requirements they are the rules, and will be enforced by whatever country(ies) made them.

[njhorseman]

The problem, as I see it, is the cruise lines allow the BC/DL on closed loop cruises but NEVER point out that you CANNOT get back into the USA easily with JUST the BC/DL if you don't arrive via the same ship you left on. BIG downfall which effects a lot of people's thinking about passports.

 

For the person who is taking 80+ grandparents on a cruise, PLEASE encourage them to get a passport. Even if the family has to chip in to cover the cost of the passports, you will be doing yourself and your grandparents a BIG favor. If something were to happen where they needed to get off the ship (and as someone pointed out, this is more likely due to their age), they will be disoriented enough without having to deal with the passport issue. How would you get grandma and grandpa back to the USA without the passport. Something to really think about.

 

Actually, at least some cruise lines do tell you why you may need a passport. From NCL's FAQs:

 

Note: If you miss your ship at its scheduled U.S. departure port and need to travel outside the U.S. to meet your ship, or should you unexpectedly need to depart the ship from a foreign port prior to the end of sailing, a passport would be required to leave or re-enter the U.S. by air. To that end, NCL strongly recommends all guests to obtain a passport for their voyage on any NCL vessel.

 

Similarly, from Royal Caribbean's FAQs:

 

Our Recommendation

Royal Caribbean International strongly recommends that all guests travel with a valid passport during their cruise. This greatly assists guests who may need to fly out of the United States to meet their ship at the next available port should they miss their scheduled embarkation in a U.S. port; guests entering the U.S. at the end of their cruise; and guests needing to fly to the U.S. before their cruise ends, because of medical, family, personal or business emergencies, missing a ship's departure from a port of call, involuntary disembarkation from a ship due to misconduct, or other reasons.

 

Guests who need to fly to the United States before their cruise ends will likely experience significant delays and complications related to booking airline tickets and entering the United States if they do not have a valid U.S. passport with them.

 

I'm not going to bother to check any other cruise lines, but I'll wager that many, if not most, say something similar to Royal Caribbean and NCL.

[scottbee]

Sorry...but where did I say anything that would even remotely attribute the rules changes to Canada or the Caribbean counties, and for that matter why is it relevant to this discussion? Whether the rules are due to Canadian requirements, Caribbean country requirements or US requirements they are the rules, and will be enforced by whatever country(ies) made them.

 

I didn't. I said "This is why you now need a passport: The USA changed their rules, not the other countries". Perhaps that sentence is clearer, but my original explanation included "why".

[beachchick]

Although I gernerally agree with what you are trying to say, you don't have your facts straight on a couple of counts:

 

(1) There are no US land border crossings that allow you to use a birth certificate and photo ID. At a minimum adults need a passport card or WHTI compliant document such as an EDL for land crossings Between the US and Canada or Mexico. Closed loop cruises are the only international travel permitting use of the BC/photo ID.

 

You're right. I keep forgetting that. We have both passport cards and passports...and it slips my mind that BC and DL are not acceptable for land crossings anymore.

 

(2) There is a very significant area of the world where it is possible to travel from country to country without a passport...within the 25 country Schengen area in Europe...which consists of, with a couple of exceptions, the countries of the European Union. So, the US is not the only country that allows some international travel without a passport.

 

I didn't write about where/whether passports are required between countries. I wrote about the attitude of citizens regarding getting passports. I actually thought about that before posting, but decided not to mention it because I wasn't referencing whether passports are needed, but how people feel about having them. Of course, I haven't actually asked everyone throughout the world what they think, but I'm sure you've read the same posts I have--multitudes over the years--from non-US CC members who simply do not understand why so many US citizens get all up in arms about passports.

 

beachchick

[navybankerteacher]

I totally agree with this post. It is almost like some people have a personal agenda with the passport issue. Who cares.

If you don't need one than don't get one.

 

 

The point is: if you do happen to need a passport, then it is the only thing which will help. If the 85 year old had a medical emergency and had to be removed from the ship at a foreign port -- which the line has a right to do -- the 85 year old would not be able to get home without a passport.

 

The only "agenda" is exhaustion listening to people argue against getting a passport -- they are simply being stupid -- sorry if I sound judgmental, but it is stupid to fail to consider contingencies -- and while an 85 year old may not outlive a ten year passport, he is more likely to actually need one than a younger person on a closed loop cruise.

[SadieN]

Might or might not pertain to the OP--

 

We took a day trip from St Thomas to Virgin Gorda. We needed our passports to re-enter the US in St John.

[agabbymama]

Most of the folks here are going to the Caribbean(St.Maartin, Cayman, Bahama's, ect). Not Beirut, S Africa, or the Middle East.

 

I think they will be OK.

 

Nice scare tactic......

 

NOT SCARE tactics at all. While there are a lot of folks that cruise the Caribbean, there are just as many that go to the Baltics, the Med, the Pacific, and lots of other destinations. While maybe not Beirut, S. Africa or the Middle East, the Caribbean isn't the only cruise destination.

 

I took my first trip abroad in 1987, I got a passport. When one leaves the country, it is best to have proper proof of identity. You may never need it, but if anything happens and you have to fly home, you're going to be in trouble. I even use my passport for flights to Hawaii.

 

But then I'm not a risk taker, I'll play it safe every time.

[greatam]

Actually, at least some cruise lines do tell you why you may need a passport.

 

 

It certainly isn't easy info to find or the questions about passports would not come up so very, very frequently.

 

Maybe if they put the warnings on the cruise docs, more people would pay attention and it wouldn't be an issue anymore.

[near the beach]

You don’t need a passport on a closed loop cruise. What about a repositioning cruise where you start and end the cruise in different locations? Would you need a passport for that cruise? :confused:

[Shmoo here]

You don’t need a passport on a closed loop cruise. What about a repositioning cruise where you start and end the cruise in different locations? Would you need a passport for that cruise? :confused:

 

Yes.

 

:)