Royal Caribbean International will offer compensation to 130 passengers of the Seren

[LBcruzman]

Give it up people. The apologists for Royal Caribbean will never get it. Please don't engage them further. End this thing now! RCL handled this in a very bad manner end of story. Please don't let these Cheerleaders go on and on.

[Cuizer2]

This argument holds no weight.

 

Turn around time on airliners is sometimes as short as a half hour. The flight has to arrive before it can leave. Even the first flight of the day from any given airport wouldn't do that unless it left totally empty. And if a HUGE storm were coming that might toss around the aircraft as sometimes happens with rare hurricanes, they just might fly it away. But in that case, no one would be arriving at the airport as they would be making their own hurricane preparations.

 

I do have a friend in the midwest from cruise critic - Bill-Wi :) - who has been known to watch for these sort of winter snow storms. He has the unusually ability to call the airlines and get his flights moved up by a couple of days so he never misses a winter cruise.

 

Flights don't fly out once a week and spend the day loading supplies for thousands of passengers. There is just no comparison because it really is impossible to fly the plane away 5 hours early when it hasn't even arrived with it's previous occupants.

 

It still gives no one a free pass.

 

I'm just not buying that reasoning.

 

Gina

 

You must be kidding right? An airline is going to dispatch a flight out 5 hours early "empty" !?:eek:

 

Here in the snowy NE, the term "grounded" and "canceled" comes to mind.

 

While I really wish Royal had handled this better and I wish they had taken good care of all you arrived by normal checkin deadline, the analogies used by some posters on these thread just do not work.

I live in snow country. The flights do not go early. The are delayed or canceled.

To make that poster's analogy work, the airport tells flights they must leave pronto before the airport closes the runways. I have never seen a flight depart early, but I have watched airports close. I once had a cheap flight to North Carolina where I was registered (prepaid) for an expensive professional conference. The expensive conference hotel had a 72 hour cancelation policy. A light snow was predicted, and we had an easy drive to the airport. Suddenly, the light snow turned into a blizzard (shift in wind caused lake effect:eek:). The airport closed all runways to incoming and outgoing flights, rather like the port closed, ah. they delay our flight again and again, then canceled it. We were moved to a later flight, and it too was delayed, then canceled. The airline offered us another flight in 4 days, but the conference would have been over. When we declined that offer, the airline offered a flight one or weeks later. Umm, no, the conference would be over and did not repeat in future weeks:rolleyes:. the airline did not want to give me a refund. Frankly the cost of the airfare was small compared to to the registration fee, the hotel penalty, and the lost professional opportunity.

 

It is a hypothetical question folks - not an exact analogy. The point is not that airlines and cruise lines operate the same - they don't. The point is, if you arrived on time and found out the plane left early and the airline was not offering any refund - HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

 

The point is not to compare airlines to cruise lines. The point is to say if this happened how would you feel?

 

The Royal Caribbean cheerleaders keep trying to deflect the point. So I'll put it simply. Both Royal Caribbean and Carnival left the port early. Yet only one of the cruise lines is being blasted for its lack of customer care. People keep saying, "What else should Royal Caribbean have done?" The answer is simple - Royal Caribbean should have acted more like Carnival and less like some non-caring huge corporation.

[Aquahound]

Thats often the issue with analogies, its comparing apples to oranges.

 

Why pull airplanes and trains into it,when we can just compare how 2 cruiselines handled the exact same issue.

 

That's exactly how I see it. One cruise line showed significantly more care than the other. Done.

 

But unfortunately, according to some, that line of thinking makes me a cheerleader or an apologist. :rolleyes: Never mind that I've been against RCI's lack of care in this incident throughout this entire story.

 

I don't know who is worse....cheerleaders, or folks who are so quick to throw out the accusation because we don't think exactly the same as them. :rolleyes:

 

Whatever.....I'm boarding a cruise ship this morning, so I'm not going to let something I had absolutely no part of upset me. :)

[cruisefeen2304]

My sister was sailing Carnival that same day and her ship left early. Though I'm not the biggest fan of them, I gotta say Carnival won some cool points in my book. They helped EVERYONE who had a passport, get to Barbados so they could board the ship on Wednesday and attempt to enjoy the rest of the cruise. Even those who didn't have travel insurance and those who didn't buy airfare through the ship.

[mommabean]

Actually, there is. The Coast Guard has a progression of port conditions that escalate to the point of closing the port and trying to get all the ocean going vessels out of port. Any vessel operator [i.e. RCI] should be well aware of the normal progression. As soon as they know that a hurricane is possible, operators likewise know early departure is possible. How many decades has RCI been operating in the Caribbean in general and San Juan in particular. With a hurrican in the area and on track to be near, if not over, San Juan on Sunday, to argue an experienced operator like RCI would not recognize the possibilities is in my opinion ridiculous.

 

By Saturday evening, with specific warnings being made, I think vessel operators in San Juan should have known early departure was not only possible, but likely. Mommabean has confirmed that announcements were being made on board Serenade as early as 11 a.m. Sunday. Even that is enough to convince me that failing to even try to notify passengers is inexcusable.

 

11:34 was the announcement as time stamped on my camera. Not that it's a huge difference. You can hear me quietly say, "oooh" since it was the first we'd heard this would happen.

 

Gina

[sherilyn70]

It is a hypothetical question folks - not an exact analogy. The point is not that airlines and cruise lines operate the same - they don't. The point is, if you arrived on time and found out the plane left early and the airline was not offering any refund - HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

 

The point is not to compare airlines to cruise lines. The point is to say if this happened how would you feel?

 

Well I can tell you how I felt a few weeks back when on a Friday night my flight from Philly to Chicago got canceled. I was trying to go home after a business trip but there were severe thunderstorms on the east coast (this was the week before Irene) and they had canceled multiple flights. By the time they got to canceling our flight we were bottom of the barrel and they said "we can't get you home until Monday". Guess who had to pay for the hotel bill in the mean time? My company was going to have to because the airline had no responsibility for the weather. Instead I ended up driving home so I'd get home 2 days faster and the airline didn't offer to compensate for that either.

 

I know how it made me feel... it was frustrating. But I also understand that they can't control the weather so I just made a plan b and moved on.

[CTNYER]

This argument holds no weight.

 

Turn around time on airliners is sometimes as short as a half hour. The flight has to arrive before it can leave. Even the first flight of the day from any given airport wouldn't do that unless it left totally empty. And if a HUGE storm were coming that might toss around the aircraft as sometimes happens with rare hurricanes, they just might fly it away. But in that case, no one would be arriving at the airport as they would be making their own hurricane preparations.

 

I do have a friend in the midwest from cruise critic - Bill-Wi :) - who has been known to watch for these sort of winter snow storms. He has the unusually ability to call the airlines and get his flights moved up by a couple of days so he never misses a winter cruise.

 

Flights don't fly out once a week and spend the day loading supplies for thousands of passengers. There is just no comparison because it really is impossible to fly the plane away 5 hours early when it hasn't even arrived with it's previous occupants.

 

It still gives no one a free pass.

 

I'm just not buying that reasoning.

 

Gina

 

Actually, their analogy is perfect from an educational standpoint because it constitutes pre-cognitive recognition of patterns by which we say if A is sufficient similar to B, then if A leads to C, B will lead to something similar to C (call it C prime). To make a point about analogy with an analogy, the power comes from the extent to which A matches B, like a five point or a ten point match in fingerprinting, even though it is still no more than an explanatory theory about the causal relationship between A and C, on one hand, and B and C prime, on the other. Therefore what I bolded above is neither here nor there.

 

With regards to those making excuses for RCCL's ineptitude, I think it's equally a lack of understanding and lack of comprehension of the facts at hand. I refuse to believe that people can be so cold. :o

[mommabean]

actually, their analogy is perfect from an educational standpoint because it constitutes pre-cognitive recognition of patterns by which we say if a is sufficient similar to b, then if a leads to c, b will lead to something similar to c (call it c prime). To make a point about analogy with an analogy, the power comes from the extent to which a matches b, like a five point or a ten point match in fingerprinting, even though it is still no more than an explanatory theory about the causal relationship between a and c, on one hand, and b and c prime, on the other. Therefore what i bolded above is neither here nor there.

 

With regards to those making excuses for rccl's ineptitude, i think it's equally a lack of understanding and lack of comprehension of the facts at hand. I refuse to believe that people can be so cold. :o

 

lol

[Starry Eyes]

It is a hypothetical question folks - not an exact analogy. The point is not that airlines and cruise lines operate the same - they don't. The point is, if you arrived on time and found out the plane left early and the airline was not offering any refund - HOW WOULD YOU FEEL?

The point is not to compare airlines to cruise lines. The point is to say if this happened how would you feel?

The Royal Caribbean cheerleaders keep trying to deflect the point. So I'll put it simply. Both Royal Caribbean and Carnival left the port early. Yet only one of the cruise lines is being blasted for its lack of customer care. People keep saying, "What else should Royal Caribbean have done?" The answer is simple - Royal Caribbean should have acted more like Carnival and less like some non-caring huge corporation.

Well the person who posted called it an analogy, and his/her analogy breaks down instantly.

to your point, I have been stranded by airlines. The airlines were not caring, saying they are not responsible for weather. The airlines did not offer to refund my airfare. Quite the opposite, they wanted to keep it. Eventually after insisting and after going through supervisors and suggesting I would challenge via the credit card they refunded the airfare. small potatoes, really, as the other expenses are much greater. Never has one picked up a hotel bill or covered other costs associated with my cancelled flight. so, even if we accept the analogy, the airlines would have behaved just as badly. how would I feel? frustrated, yes, mostly at my bad luck and unfortunate timing.

 

I have said repeatedly that Royal made a very bad PR move by failing to have somebody greet the people you arrived at the port, taking their names, documenting their arrival times, and offing condolences and assistance. For those you arrive before the scheduled check-in deadline who had passports, they should have offered forward transit, not because they contractually had to do so, but because it is better business and better PR. For the timely ones without passports, they should have offered assistance in finding a hotel for a night or two, and help coordinating the change in their original return air ticket. for those who arrived late, well they would have missed the ship and sadly needed to use their own travel insurance or own resources as any other time.

[AJ28]

After the announcement from RC, Cruise Critic should have dropped it. CC's coverage of the situation comes off like schaudenfreude,IMO.

 

It's old hat to be sure-and the fact that CC seem to take so much pleasure in reporting it is-for lack of any other phrase-disturbing.

 

 

I suggest that you step away from this thread now and leave it for people who DO want to read, comment and post about this issue.

 

I found it illuminating to read about the vastly different responses to the same event from RCCL and Carnival. It mirrors RCCLs dismal behaviour in Europe last year during the Iceland Volcano fall-out.

 

Whereas other cruise companies looked after their passengers (Thomson, P&O) who would have been stranded at European ports, by either letting them stay on board for a longer period or sorting out accommodation on land, plus getting them home. RCCL did nothing. Not.a.thing. Washed their hands of the whole mess, could not get rid of passengers fast enough, with no help, no advice, nothing.

 

So, I am not at all surprised to see them behaving in the same way with these passengers. Sad though.

 

This thread will continue for as long as CC members want it to. Many of us have travelled with RCCL in the past and have booked cruises for the future. We care how they treat us, their passengers. We want reassurance that we will be treated with respect when things go wrong.

 

Hiding behind 'terms and conditions' is not good enough.

[Cuizer2]

Well I can tell you how I felt a few weeks back when on a Friday night my flight from Philly to Chicago got canceled. I was trying to go home after a business trip but there were severe thunderstorms on the east coast (this was the week before Irene) and they had canceled multiple flights. By the time they got to canceling our flight we were bottom of the barrel and they said "we can't get you home until Monday". Guess who had to pay for the hotel bill in the mean time? My company was going to have to because the airline had no responsibility for the weather. Instead I ended up driving home so I'd get home 2 days faster and the airline didn't offer to compensate for that either.

 

I know how it made me feel... it was frustrating. But I also understand that they can't control the weather so I just made a plan b and moved on.

 

This is not a weather related issue either. No one is faulting Royal Caribbean for leaving early. The issue is how DIFFERENTLY the two lines reacted. Carnival showed that it cared about its passengers while Royal Caribbean showed that it didn't care about its passengers.

[Cuizer2]

Well the person who posted called it an analogy, and his/her analogy breaks down instantly.

to your point, I have been stranded by airlines. The airlines were not caring, saying they are not responsible for weather. The airlines did not offer to refund my airfare. Quite the opposite, they wanted to keep it. Eventually after insisting and after going through supervisors and suggesting I would challenge via the credit card they refunded the airfare. small potatoes, really, as the other expenses are much greater. Never has one picked up a hotel bill or covered other costs associated with my cancelled flight. so, even if we accept the analogy, the airlines would have behaved just as badly. how would I feel? frustrated, yes, mostly at my bad luck and unfortunate timing.

 

I have said repeatedly that Royal made a very bad PR move by failing to have somebody greet the people you arrived at the port, taking their names, documenting their arrival times, and offing condolences and assistance. For those you arrive before the scheduled check-in deadline who had passports, they should have offered forward transit, not because they contractually had to do so, but because it is better business and better PR. For the timely ones without passports, they should have offered assistance in finding a hotel for a night or two, and help coordinating the change in their original return air ticket. for those who arrived late, well they would have missed the ship and sadly needed to use their own travel insurance or own resources as any other time.

 

In other words, Royal Caribbean should have acted more line Carnival - I agree.

[piscesgal223]

I'm not a fan of Carnival..but people shouldn't be turning a blind eye to THEIR missteps either.

[readytogo2]

I'm not a fan of Carnival..but people shouldn't be turning a blind eye to THEIR missteps either.

 

I don't think people are saying carnival can do no wrong....they are just stating that in this case, they did the right thing.

[piscesgal223]

Fair enough, Carnival *did* step up. But to keep shaming Royal Caribbean the way that Cruise Critic has is,IMO becoming rediculous.

 

I have a feeling that this situation will crop up again at least one more time-if not more- during hurricane season, accompanied by the usual "outrage" until the cruise line compensates its passengers.

[DaytonCruiser]

Fair enough, Carnival *did* step up. But to keep shaming Royal Caribbean the way that Cruise Critic has is,IMO becoming rediculous.

 

I have a feeling that this situation will crop up again at least one more time-if not more- during hurricane season, accompanied by the usual "outrage" until the cruise line compensates its passengers.

 

If the "exact" same thing happens again, we have a precedent. Which is important IMO

[dfishner]

1) Both Carnival and RCL left early because the port told them they had to because of weather..I believe most people are in agreement with that fact.

 

2) Both cruise lines did not have to offer anything to the guests that missed the ship. I would agree with that they were not required to

 

3) In this instance Carnival reached out to their guests by email and phone put them up in a hotel and flew them over to the next port or flew them home at the lines expense. RCL only took care of their passengers that had a vacation package with them and left the rest to fend for themselves, they did not try to email or contact their guest.

 

4) RCL took the route of sticking with the terms of their contract which was correct but it was not the best thing to do public relations wise and hence their problem they stood by their contract and not by their guests and Carnival decided to take care of their guests. In this case RCL made a major mistake will they learn for this I sure hope so..

[sherilyn70]

This is not a weather related issue either. No one is faulting Royal Caribbean for leaving early. The issue is how DIFFERENTLY the two lines reacted. Carnival showed that it cared about its passengers while Royal Caribbean showed that it didn't care about its passengers.

 

And my point was Southwest said "sorry about your luck" and left me stranded in Philadelphia for 2 extra days at my own cost. They didn't offer me any compensation at all, all they did was give me plane tickets to get home 2 days late when I had no where to stay.

[Ocean Boy]

I'm not a fan of Carnival..but people shouldn't be turning a blind eye to THEIR missteps either.

 

Nor am I a fan of Carnival. I don't give them my business. We are all discussing this one specific incident not the two cruise lines in general. Carnival handled this better than RCI. However I still sail with, and give my business to, RCI. They very simply have great ships and a great product.

[caribbean sailor]

This is not a weather related issue either. No one is faulting Royal Caribbean for leaving early. The issue is how DIFFERENTLY the two lines reacted. Carnival showed that it cared about its passengers while Royal Caribbean showed that it didn't care about its passengers.

 

 

I agree if you are loyal to Royal Caribbean as my wife and i ,nine cruises one a year.A little respect in return is not a lot to ask for.:eek: :(

[Cuizer2]

And my point was Southwest said "sorry about your luck" and left me stranded in Philadelphia for 2 extra days at my own cost. They didn't offer me any compensation at all, all they did was give me plane tickets to get home 2 days late when I had no where to stay.

 

I understand what you said, but this is a cruise ship forum, not an airline forum.

[caribbean sailor]

And my point was Southwest said "sorry about your luck" and left me stranded in Philadelphia for 2 extra days at my own cost. They didn't offer me any compensation at all, all they did was give me plane tickets to get home 2 days late when I had no where to stay.

 

Are you saying what southwest did to you was right.I sure don't think so,I think you should have called the main office to complain when you got home.Some times the extra effort helps. Sorry you had to go through this.

[piscesgal223]

Nor am I a fan of Carnival. I don't give them my business. We are all discussing this one specific incident not the two cruise lines in general. Carnival handled this better than RCI. However I still sail with, and give my business to, RCI. They very simply have great ships and a great product.

 

 

I think the percentage of RC faithful who would actually NOT cruise on RC because of this is pretty small.As I said earlier some people's reaction to this is "outrage".

 

 

Is it going to keep me from cruising on RC next year?No. But I won't be cruising during during hurricane season.:p

[TNCruzer]

I'm not a fan of Carnival..but people shouldn't be turning a blind eye to THEIR missteps either.

Question......an this goes out to all rci defenders:

 

Can you name a previous incident where there was such an immediate and diametrically opposed corporate response to a bad situation? That is to say: CCL`s knee jerk reaction was to take care of people!

RCI`s knee jerk reaction was to hide behind the contract of carriage and do virtually nothing for people!

If so please list it.

[Stags14]

They did nothing to ensure the safety of those customers who were left behind. By leaving them behind they put them in a position of potential danger and forced them to seek their own accommodation, nit knowing if they could afford to do so, or even if there were suitable accommodation available to them. They abandoned these customers completely.

 

 

 

This time it was a hurricane. Next time, it could be a pending harbor strike stopping you from boarding. The nature of the issue is quite irrelevant as to how those issues are dealt with.

 

 

Are you serious? For a start you could be the next person to experience this. Secondly, just because it doesn't happen to you, doesn't mean you should ignore the fate of those who have experienced significant stress. Do you donate to overseas crisis relief?

 

The cruise left early, passengers got left behind... unfortunately, it happens to passengers all the time and they are left to fend for themselves. Should RCI have just cancelled the cruise for EVERYONE? Then people would be saying "well they had the opportunity to leave early, why didn't they do that - at least it would have been 150 upset pax instead of 3,000." So, with certain customers I think it's lose/lose.

 

They were safe, they still had the company to assist them, they could have met up with them at the next port. Could they have flown them there? Yea, I suppose they could have and it wouldn't have bankrupt the company. But I'm sure that somewhere in the fine print it states they aren't responsible for such an incident. People need to be proactive during the height of hurricane season as well. We had friends miss a cruise because of a storm - they flew to Jamaica and met the ship midway through the vacation. They made the best of the situation at hand. They are adults, and they dealt with it accordingly. If you cannot survive a situation like this (I admit it does suck) then you should not be traveling in the first place.

 

I have a cruise on the Allure on Sept 18th. Having common sense, I knew it was hurricane season. Therefore, we are due to travel down to FLL on Wednesday the 14th. PLENTY of time to assure that we are 1) get down there on time - even if our flight is cancelled we have time to drive and 2) we're one of the first at the port of call to get on the ship the second it opens to passengers. Plan ahead, and get there early. This hurricane had been forcasted for nearly 2 weeks. People need to learn to take things into their own hands sometimes.

 

Again, they could have met them at the next port and finish their trip as well as getting another trip with equal value. What more could they do?