JUST RETURNED FROM QM2 back to back

[Underwatr]

The Commodore Club isn't a dining venue so some would argue that the evening dress code doesn't apply there. I don't tend to agree with that opinion.

[Salacia]

Regarding dress code in The Carvery: When I was onboard QM2 last July, the Daily Programme included that jackets were not required in the alternative dining venues (the ones that carry a surcharge). Subsequent to that, other posters confirmed reading the same information in the Daily Programme. Unless there has been a more recent change, the dress code for alternative dining venues is more casual than elegant casual:confused: -S

Edited September 27, 2011 by Salacia

[Whitemarsh]

The Commodore Club isn't a dining venue so some would argue that the evening dress code doesn't apply there. I don't tend to agree with that opinion.

 

My understanding was that the dress code applies to all areas of the ship with the exception of Kings Court. Below is info from Cunard's FAQ.

 

Does the dress code apply to all areas of the ship?

 

The dress code applies to all areas of the ship after 6.00pm each evening.

Should you wish to dress more casually in the evening, then you will be able to dine in the Kings Court (Queen Mary 2) and Lido Restaurants (Queen Victoria & Queen Elizabeth) though you should be aware that nearly all guests adhere to the evening's dress code and this helps to set the ambience for the evening.

[Artemis]

^ Salacia, when we crossed in July, we dined in the Chef's Galley one night (we are very high on that experience--it was well done). Both of my men enjoy dressing for dinner and decided to wear a jacket, no tie. We were pleasantly suprised to see the other gentlemen take a similarly "smart" approach in spite of the relaxed "no jacket" guideline. To be sure, there were no Hawaiian shirts! And there was only one polo, which was just right for a young teen (who paired it with slacks, no jeans). (I'm really not that obsessed with what others are wearing. :rolleyes: Chef's Galley seats a maximum of 36; only 16-18 were there the night we did it. It is intimate, which is one reason why it is such an enjoyable experience.)

 

I would like to think most passengers embrace Cunard precisely because they enjoy the ritual and ambiance created by dressing for dinner. Also, sheerly as a packing matter, my men traveled with 7 nights of apparel covering the formal, semi-formal and elegant casual designations, so they didn't really have any "no jacket" outfits that seemed dressy enough (other than their daytime wear, which they didn't want to repeat at night).

[deck chair]

GOOD EVENING READERS:

 

"Good evening Deck Chair!"

 

No one appears to want to go back in time to travel on an early trans-Atlantic vessel. Thats okay. I'll just do it on my own. Of course, I will let you know how the experience was right here on Cruise Critic...

 

 

OUTDOOR DECK SPACE. Most modern ships offer limited outdoor deck space which then leads to routine struggles to find a deck chair by the pool. You read of chair hogs. ( Do you read of chair hogs on Queen Mary 2?) You hear of passengers on some ships who are forced to get up early to find a poolside chair to "reserve." And this is suppossed to be a vacation!!!!!!

 

The lack of outdoor deck space leads to it being impossible to find a deck chair overlooking the wake of the ship. There are so few ships now with aft terraced deck space because they are taken up with more balcony cabins. THE BEAN COUNTERS WON ON THIS BECAUSE THE BEAN COUNTERS REALLY DON"T LOVE SHIPS. AND I WONDER IF THEY LOVE THE SEA!!!

 

The older cruise line advertisements from decades ago boasted of the "ACRES" of outdoor deck space. Not so much now.

 

The Queen Mary offers outdoor deck space in abundance. From the aft to the great space on the upper decks to the fabulous 360 degree teak promenade deck you can find a place to sit. The aft is terraced so that you can find a place and just watch the wake of this liner as it plows through the seas. You can tell Queen MAry 2 passengers love the outdoor space...it is also important to note that there were waiters wandering these decks for drink orders. (And not in an obnoxious fashion.)

 

The wonderul thing about Queen Mary is the promenade deck. It is a great space used for jogging/walking or just sitting in a deck chair. The Queen Mary would not be the Queen Mary without this deck.

 

 

I have read many reviews of Celebrity Cruise Line ships the writers of which often complain of the difficulty of finding a place in the sun on sea days or of deck chairs so close together that it is uncomfortable. Check out the deck plans of the typical Celebrity ship and you will find no open terraced aft decks. The Solstice class ships have no promenade deck to speak of. I WILL NEVER SAIL ON A CELEBRITY SHIP FOR THAT VERY REASON.

 

Check out the deck plans of Oceania Crusie new MARINA and tell me if you find any open terraced aft decks with deck chairs or a real useful promenade deck. The promenade deck on Marina is a very narrow space that offers access to the lifeboats. THere are no deck chairs! I will not sail on MARINA for those reasons.

 

Well, you can tell that I am a great fan of outdoor terraced deck and wonderful teak promenade decks. How about you?

 

To be continued...

 

DECK CHAIR

[Salacia]

GOOD EVENING READERS:

 

"Good evening Deck Chair!"

 

No one appears to want to go back in time to travel on an early trans-Atlantic vessel. Thats okay. I'll just do it on my own. Of course, I will let you know how the experience was right here on Cruise Critic...

 

 

OUTDOOR DECK SPACE. Most modern ships offer limited outdoor deck space which then leads to routine struggles to find a deck chair by the pool. You read of chair hogs. ( Do you read of chair hogs on Queen Mary 2?) You hear of passengers on some ships who are forced to get up early to find a poolside chair to "reserve." And this is suppossed to be a vacation!!!!!!

 

The lack of outdoor deck space leads to it being impossible to find a deck chair overlooking the wake of the ship. There are so few ships now with aft terraced deck space because they are taken up with more balcony cabins. THE BEAN COUNTERS WON ON THIS BECAUSE THE BEAN COUNTERS REALLY DON"T LOVE SHIPS. AND I WONDER IF THEY LOVE THE SEA!!!

 

The older cruise line advertisements from decades ago boasted of the "ACRES" of outdoor deck space. Not so much now.

 

The Queen Mary offers outdoor deck space in abundance. From the aft to the great space on the upper decks to the fabulous 360 degree teak promenade deck you can find a place to sit. The aft is terraced so that you can find a place and just watch the wake of this liner as it plows through the seas. You can tell Queen MAry 2 passengers love the outdoor space...it is also important to note that there were waiters wandering these decks for drink orders. (And not in an obnoxious fashion.)

 

The wonderul thing about Queen Mary is the promenade deck. It is a great space used for jogging/walking or just sitting in a deck chair. The Queen Mary would not be the Queen Mary without this deck.

 

 

I have read many reviews of Celebrity Cruise Line ships the writers of which often complain of the difficulty of finding a place in the sun on sea days or of deck chairs so close together that it is uncomfortable. Check out the deck plans of the typical Celebrity ship and you will find no open terraced aft decks. The Solstice class ships have no promenade deck to speak of. I WILL NEVER SAIL ON A CELEBRITY SHIP FOR THAT VERY REASON.

 

Check out the deck plans of Oceania Crusie new MARINA and tell me if you find any open terraced aft decks with deck chairs or a real useful promenade deck. The promenade deck on Marina is a very narrow space that offers access to the lifeboats. THere are no deck chairs! I will not sail on MARINA for those reasons.

 

Well, you can tell that I am a great fan of outdoor terraced deck and wonderful teak promenade decks. How about you?

 

To be continued...

 

DECK CHAIR

 

 

Deck Chair, I must agree with you about the decks on QM2! If there is another ship on the sea that offers such wonderful decks upon which to stroll, sit, or just stare over the railing, I'd like to know!

 

Just as an aside, Himself and I have often taken a stroll on the deck in formal attire after dinner: it ain't like it is in the movies. The deck is often slippery, even more so if you're wearing heels. And if your wearing a gown that is "dry clean only" it will be ruined in fog or mist, to say nothing of hair style/make-up. So after several mis-steps, I now change from formal attire to something more suitable after dinner for taking a stroll on the deck.

Is it a violation of the ship-wide dress code on formal nights to change into something more suitable for a stroll on the deck? If it is, it goes against common sense:) -S

[Salacia]

^ Salacia, when we crossed in July, we dined in the Chef's Galley one night (we are very high on that experience--it was well done). Both of my men enjoy dressing for dinner and decided to wear a jacket, no tie. We were pleasantly suprised to see the other gentlemen take a similarly "smart" approach in spite of the relaxed "no jacket" guideline. To be sure, there were no Hawaiian shirts! And there was only one polo, which was just right for a young teen (who paired it with slacks, no jeans). (I'm really not that obsessed with what others are wearing. :rolleyes: Chef's Galley seats a maximum of 36; only 16-18 were there the night we did it. It is intimate, which is one reason why it is such an enjoyable experience.)

 

I would like to think most passengers embrace Cunard precisely because they enjoy the ritual and ambiance created by dressing for dinner. Also, sheerly as a packing matter, my men traveled with 7 nights of apparel covering the formal, semi-formal and elegant casual designations, so they didn't really have any "no jacket" outfits that seemed dressy enough (other than their daytime wear, which they didn't want to repeat at night).

 

Hi Artemis. Thanks for your comments. We've not dinned in the alternative venues, so I have no experience of how people dress for dinner there: considering the change in dress code for those venues, I wondered how things would turn out.

 

Quite frankly, I don't understand why men wouldn't wear a jacket for dinner as a practical matter considering that it really isn't that all that warm in some areas. And as you indicated, the jacket is already packed.

 

But Artemis, have you dined there on a formal night? Do passengers dress in formal attire?

 

Thanks & best wishes,

Salacia

 

P.S. Thanks also for your comments regarding Chef's Galley. It seems I've been missing out on that experience - I'll give it a go on the next voyage :-)

Edited September 28, 2011 by Salacia

[karenbeanpole]

I have to come to Celebrity's defense here! We never found it difficult to find somewhere to sit on the Eclipse in June. And we didn't hog, nor get up early to get one. There was always somewhere to sit. Maybe not EXACTLY where you want , but near enough. The ambience of the ship was amazing, there were outdoor spaces as well as the indoor solarium, and one musn't forget the lawn deck. We never felt crowded, and it was very pleasant.

We did enjoy QM2 as well, it was different. It was nice to have the chairs on promenade deck to sit and watch the sea. We had the feeling that there were chairs available only because the weather wasn't brilliant - too windy and cold to sit outside on most days. But I must say it is the most uncrowded ship we've been on (not that Celebrity was crowded) in that we hardly saw people around on deck!

[Salacia]

I have to come to Celebrity's defense here! We never found it difficult to find somewhere to sit on the Eclipse in June. And we didn't hog, nor get up early to get one. There was always somewhere to sit. Maybe not EXACTLY where you want , but near enough. The ambience of the ship was amazing, there were outdoor spaces as well as the indoor solarium, and one musn't forget the lawn deck. We never felt crowded, and it was very pleasant.

We did enjoy QM2 as well, it was different. It was nice to have the chairs on promenade deck to sit and watch the sea. We had the feeling that there were chairs available only because the weather wasn't brilliant - too windy and cold to sit outside on most days. But I must say it is the most uncrowded ship we've been on (not that Celebrity was crowded) in that we hardly saw people around on deck!

 

Hi Karenbeanpole. I agree with you, QM2 is the most uncrowded ship I've been on too! Most of my voyages on QM2 have been to the Caribbean, so the deck/ pool areas would be as populated as one could imagine...and even then, it wasn't what I'd call crowded. When the majority of passengers are out and about, nice as you please, doing their own thing, the ship remains vast and uncrowded.

While it might seem strange to some trans-atlantic passengers, QM2 really is a joy in the Caribbean:). -S

 

P.S. Sorry, I know that has nothing to do with Celebrity (I've never sailed on a Celebrity ship, but I noted your recommendation).

Edited September 28, 2011 by Salacia

[philayl]

While realising that everyone is different, in my own case I couldn't care less if there were no loungers or chairs at all, I have never felt the need to sit, or lie, in either. If you are on the same cruise as me any time, you can have my lounger/chair with pleasure.;)

[david,Mississauga]

... I find elegant casual to be tiresome, it's my least favourite of all the dress codes.

 

I do believe it would be simpler to make every night a formal night; with the exception of the first and last nights of a voyage.

 

The "dress codes" were simpler when my wife and I started travelling by sea in the 1970s. On the ships we travelled there was no dress code published. Passengers were expected to know the traditions of the sea. Travel agents would provide guidance and as well there were discreet hints in some of the daily programmes. Of course in those days it was not yet fashionable to dress like a slob in fine restaurants, so there was no need to agonise over details of dress.

 

On liner voyages there were usually First and Tourist classes. (I don't want to offend our neighbours in the U.S., but I am amused when I read occasional comments from Americans on this forum slamming British ships - and sometimes the UK itself - for a "class system." At the time when the Cunard Queens had been reduced to two classes, the S.S. United States maintained three distinct classes.) In First you dressed every night except the first and last and any night in port. On the longer liner voyages, often referred to as the "Empire runs" - on P&O and Union-Castle, for example - Sundays would also be a non-formal night. But a gentleman always wore a jacket and tie on these non-formal nights. There was no such thing as elegant-casual or smart-casual. In Tourist class on most liners, men wore jackets and ties every night on Cunard, P&O and Union-Castle. There were some lines where more casual wear was the norm. But people didn't fret about it. It was just understood. Yes, it was a simpler era. Because I did not normally dress formally on land, I bought my first dinner jacket for my first First-class ocean crossing nearly 40 years ago.

[Jimsgirl]

David Mississauga , like you, I started my sea travel "back when" it was taken for granted that everyone would "dress for dinner" except on first and last nights.

 

I still adhere to that code. even on First and Last I still wear outfits that by today's standards could be classed as "dressy"

 

It is no more difficult to wear something appropriate as it is to wear jeans and sweatshirts, in fact my dressy outfit weighs less than jeans and sweatshirt.

 

Cunard is supposed to be "dressy",

 

There are many ships that are "come as you wish" , I cannot understand anyone booking Cunard and then complaining that they do not want to "change for dinner

[Artemis]

@Salacia, we didn't go to the King's Court deck save the one evening, so I can't answer about adherence to formal dress there. However, on formal nights, the majority remained in their finest all evening long in the various venues. It was lovely to see!

 

@deck chair, thank you for sharing your enthusiasm for being out on the decks. Our July crossing was unusually chilly, and blankets were being cleaned that voyage, so I never ventured out for more than an extremely brief walk. I will cross my fingers for better weather the next time so I can snag one of those primo deck chairs!

[deck chair]

Hello readers far and wide!!

 

If I may say, on my two crossings, the dress code seemed to be followed rather well, not that I was wandering the ship looking for the rule breakers.

 

To Karenbeanpole, I very much appreciate your defense of Celebrity. My observation regarding deck space and deck chairs is based on reading a good number of reviews of Solstice class ships and looking at the deck plans not from personal experience. Perhaps you had a different experience which to really cool. No matter what, no one can claim that the Solstice class ships have terraced afts or really usable promenade decks. I am actually wishing to try a Solstice class ship but will not for the reasons I stated. I very much appreciate your comments, however and hope to meet one day...you seem really awesome...

 

Let me also write that on my two crossings, the weather was really great except for a couple of days which were rather drizzly to the point that the crew did not set up the deck chairs or put out the cushions.. I am not saying PERFECT. Just really nice given we were on the North Atlantic....even Commodore Rynd seemed to be blown away by the conditions during his enthusiastic noon day announcements....With these great conditions, numerous passengers took advantage by hanging out on the decks and promenade deck. Passengers were using the pools. It was very clear that there was plenty of space. There was never a time I couldn't find a chair on the promenade deck.....my favorite place to read and watch the sea go by....

 

BY THE WAY THE NOVEL I READ ON THESE TWO CROSSINGS WAS "WINDS OF WAR"....Has anyone read it???

 

MOVIES ON QUEEN MARY 2....It is rather puzzling to me, given the rather sophisticated nature of the typical Cunard passenger why they show some of the movies they do in the movie theatre....

 

1. GHOSTWRITER

2. HANNAH

3. THOR

4. RIO

5. FASTFIVE

6. CARMEN

7. SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE

8. LIMITLESS

9. KUNG FU PANDA

10. WATER FOR ELEPHANTS

11. ARTHUR (THE REPEAT OF THE DUDLEY MOORE FILM)

12. KINGS SPEECH

 

This is what was shown during my 14 nights on this ship.

 

Any comments?

 

TO BE CONTINUED. THANKS FOR READING...

 

DECK CHAIR

Edited September 29, 2011 by deck chair

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

Hello readers far and wide!!

 

to read and watch the sea go by....

 

BY THE WAY THE NOVEL I READ ON THESE TWO CROSSINGS WAS "WINDS OF WAR"....Has anyone read it???

 

DECK CHAIR

 

 

Hi Deck Chair, oh yes, I'm became a big fan of Herman Wouk after reading The Caine Mutiny. I read The Winds of War years ago, and I was sad to come to the end of the novel...but if I remember correctly, there was a sequel?

 

By the way, if you enjoy Wouk's writing, may I suggest one of his less known novels: Don't Stop the Carnival. Very suitable to a Caribbean cruise, IMHO.

 

Cheers,

Salcia

Edited September 29, 2011 by Salacia

[karenbeanpole]

We went to see "Carmen" in 3D. It was absolutely fantastic. Neither of us had seen opera before, and the thought of spending 3 hrs in the cinema was nerveracking! But it was subtitled, AND in 3D, and we said we could always walk out at the interval if it proved boring. Far from it, we loved it and stayed all the way. It felt like we were actually there, live at the Royal Opera House. The 3D was really good. Won't say we'll rush to see the next opera available, but we definitely wouldn't say no now.

[Whitemarsh]

MOVIES ON QUEEN MARY 2....It is rather puzzling to me, given the rather sophisticated nature of the typical Cunard passenger why they show some of the movies they do in the movie theatre....

 

1. GHOSTWRITER

2. HANNAH

3. THOR

4. RIO

5. FASTFIVE

6. CARMEN

7. SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE

8. LIMITLESS

9. KUNG FU PANDA

10. WATER FOR ELEPHANTS

11. ARTHUR (THE REPEAT OF THE DUDLEY MOORE FILM)

12. KINGS SPEECH

 

This is what was shown during my 14 nights on this ship.

 

Any comments?

 

'The Kings Speech' I understand, that was quite a good movie. I enjoy seeing Helena Bonham-Carter out of her usual north-London, boho early nineties grunge look. I think it's a shame we don't see more of her brother, Crispin Bonham-Carter; he was quite good as Mr Bingley in the 1995 BBC production of Pride & Prejudice. My god, that's nearly twenty years ago!:eek:

 

'Water for Elephants also makes sense. As does 'Arthur'. After all, who doesn't like Liza?

 

And 'Thor' was a fun movie, the star is Australian; that's probably reason enough alone to screen the movie. :D

[Underwatr]

'Water for Elephants also makes sense. As does 'Arthur'. After all, who doesn't like Liza?

I think deck chair is referring to the 2011 remake with Russell Brand in the Dudley Moore role and (? Greta Gerwig ?) in the Liza Minelli role.

[Whitemarsh]

I think deck chair is referring to the 2011 remake with Russell Brand in the Dudley Moore role and (? Greta Gerwig ?) in the Liza Minelli role.

 

Oh, well that's different then. The remake wasn't anywhere near as good as the original.

[2old4this]

On my last B/BTA a few weeks ago we regularly ate dinner at The Carvery. The food was excellant and service first class. However the dress code was not adhered to by several people on differant occassions. I asked the Maitr'd as to "the rules" and he said that such flexability was to be accepted. On the same theme - on two evenings in the Commodore when Formal was the expected attire there were several people seriously underdressed so much so that a gentleman seated nearby noted that before long flip-flops and flowered shirts would be the norm (one of the said underdressed was indeed bedecked in a shirt reminicent of Hawaii)

 

I've just returned home from a back-to-back QM2 NY/Southampton in September. I enjoy the dress codes of QM2 and I was mindful of any violations of the codes I might see. Britannia was always black and white on both seating levels. The ship's several water holes were also populated with folks in their tux's and gowns. As for Kings Court, The Chef's Galley, and the sit down sites nearby on Deck 7, people came in attire that I call casual. Folks strolling the lobby, walkways, and attending the shows in the Royal Theater and Illuminations came dressed according to whatever venue they had just visited - dressy to casual. I found everything to my liking and I disembarked at New York satisfied with the overall adherance to dress codes throughout the ship. Jack Morris

[deck chair]

Hello readers!

 

Of course I Love sailing on the Queen Mary as you can obviously tell, her faults nothwithstanding. One reason this is so is the programming offered on board including the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. There is no ship that offers RADA! CUNARD: Never stop having RADA on board!!!

 

On my two back to back crossings, RADA offered acting lessons, poetry readings to live music in the Winter Garden and readings in the Chart Room to the Mark Hodgson Trio. These were very well attended and appreciated by all especially in the chart Room to an almost standing room only crowd....imagine the sounds of clinking cocktail glasses to readings by RADA along with the trio!!! It is amazing!!!!!!!!!!

 

On these particular crossings, the members of RADA were exceptionally friendly and approachable....

 

Of course, many passengers also look forward to the plays RADA produces in the Royal Court....for my two crossings we watched an abbreviated version of CANTERBURY TALES and HAMLET. Of course these were wonderful productions attended by a large number of passengers....

 

I do wish RADA would produce more meaningful/relevent up to date plays such as STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE or LAURA or OLEANA or THE GLASS MENAGERIE....perhaps these plays can't be reduced to 45 minutes but I do believe the would be well received....but if the ship is playing CARMEN why not a full length play???

 

Okay, I think this is a great idea! There are so many talented passengers who travel on Queen MAry 2. I think it would be great if passengers entered a play writing contest, the winner of which would have their play produced by RADA right on board! Or how about a poetry writing competition, the winner of which has his/her poem read by RADA to the Mark Hodgson Trio??? What do you think???

 

To be continued....as always, please forgive TYPOS/SPELLING ERRORS..BTW, it is very unfair i am not on board Queen MAry 2 right now!!!.

 

DECK CHAIR...

Edited October 1, 2011 by deck chair

[Oahucruiser]

PARTIAL QUOTE

Hi Deck Chair, oh yes, I'm became a big fan of Herman Wouk after reading The Caine Mutiny. I read The Winds of War years ago, and I was sad to come to the end of the novel...but if I remember correctly, there was a sequel?

Cheers,

Salcia

 

The Sequel was War and Remembrance. Excellent! Both Winds of War and the sequel were made into a super long movie with Ali McGraw many years ago.

[Salacia]

The Sequel was War and Remembrance. Excellent! Both Winds of War and the sequel were made into a super long movie with Ali McGraw many years ago.

 

Thanks Oahucruiser. I'll read the sequel and hunt down the DVD of the movie. Cheers, Salacia

 

P.S. I'm doing a lot of catch up reading...right now I'm reading Treasure Island and loving it!:)

[karenbeanpole]

We loved Hamlet and Canterbury Tales as well. Met the actors in the Queens Room on several occasions - very friendly and approachable people. They were good!

[Galleyrat]

Hello readers!

 

Of course I Love sailing on the Queen Mary as you can obviously tell, her faults nothwithstanding. One reason this is so is the programming offered on board including the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art. There is no ship that offers RADA! CUNARD: Never stop having RADA on board!!!

 

Of course, many passengers also look forward to the plays RADA produces in the Royal Court....for my two crossings we watched an abbreviated version of CANTERBURY TALES and HAMLET. Of course these were wonderful productions attended by a large number of passengers....

 

I do wish RADA would produce more meaningful/relevent up to date plays such as STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE or LAURA or OLEANA or THE GLASS MENAGERIE....perhaps these plays can't be reduced to 45 minutes but I do believe the would be well received....but if the ship is playing CARMEN why not a full length play???

 

Okay, I think this is a great idea! There are so many talented passengers who travel on Queen MAry 2. I think it would be great if passengers entered a play writing contest, the winner of which would have their play produced by RADA right on board! Or how about a poetry writing competition, the winner of which has his/her poem read by RADA to the Mark Hodgson Trio??? What do you think???

 

 

DECK CHAIR...

 

Please do not encourage RADA to butcher any more plays. Their Shakespearean productions are patronising and condescending in the extreme. A sort of Shakespeare for Dummies. I feel sorry for the actors because they know as do we all that you cannot DO HAMLET IN 45 MINUTES, or Richard lll another travesty perpetrated on QM2 some time ago. The plays you mention would not lend themselves to the kind of surgery inflicted on poor old Bill. And besides they are so dark and depressing that half the audience would probably throw themselves over the side afterwards. They are hardly holiday material. Canterbury Tales, yes OK. This is a picaresque story, in fact simply several short stories and is well suited to shortening. It was a good romp.

 

As for playwriting and poetry competions PLEASE PLEASE NO. If you were on board for the songwriting cruise you would understand my plea. Such self-indulgent, self-regarding tuneless droning would be hard to imagine if one had not heard it. Those people took themselves far too seriously, stalking about all day with their guitars permanently attached to their backs. And one more thing about RADA, these are professional actors trained at supposedly the finest acting school in the world. Why then do they have to read the poems at their gatherings. They do what, about two or three poems each, that shouldn't be so hard to learn for professionals. Even I could do that and I'm in my dotage.

Ratty