Big mistake by Holland America

[Liz Whiting]

I booked a cruise with Holland America for August next year and then a couple of weeks ago we were notified, through the travel agent and not personnally, that the cruise was cancelled. I could not believe that the boat had been privately chartered and everyone that had booked were cancelled. Obviously Holland America does not care about their customers and money talks! Is there anyone else in my situation as well?

I am a very angry and disappointed Holland America customer. :mad:

[celle]

I booked a cruise with Holland America for August next year and then a couple of weeks ago we were notified, through the travel agent and not personnally, that the cruise was cancelled. I could not believe that the boat had been privately chartered and everyone that had booked were cancelled. Obviously Holland America does not care about their customers and money talks! Is there anyone else in my situation as well?

I am a very angry and disappointed Holland America customer. :mad:

 

Liz, I'm sorry this happened to you and I understand how upset you must be.

 

However, this sort of thing does happen from time to time throughout the cruise industry. Royal Caribbean did it to us a couple of years ago, and it is not uncommon for other lines to do it, too.

 

Usually, some sort of offer is made to customers who are cancelled, so that they can take another cruise at slightly reduced rates.

 

By the way, if you booked through a travel agent Holland America will not deal with you direct, but will communicate through your travel agent. This, too, is standard in the industry.

 

I hope you will be able to book another cruise and that you will enjoy that cruise.

[Boatdrill]

Obviously Holland America does not care about their customers and money talks!

 

Just so you don't feel alone, the group that booked the full ship charter is also a customer of Holland America.

[IndyDenise]

Just so you don't feel alone, the group that booked the full ship charter is also a customer of Holland America.

 

------------------------

 

This is true, Maybe Liz should have said HAL doesn't treat SOME of their customers correctly". :rolleyes:

 

I know this can happen in the cruise industry but ( to me ) it does not make it right. :mad:

 

Many people research a cruise before they book. In my case I looked at all of the cruise lines/ports..and then visited here to get a feel of the type of passenger. I liked the posters here..there were not the usual " can you sneak booze on board" threads.. Then I got with my traveling people and we all cleared it with our jobs, hubbies, and dogs. The dogs were not pleased but they understood.:D

 

So I booked with HAL a roundtrip out of Italy. Watched air prices and when they went down I pounced and bought 3 air tickets. I saved $600.00 a peice ( 1800.00 ) buy buyng when I did...I did also buy trip insurance for the air portion too!

 

I also booked ( with HAL ) a 2 day pre cruise Rome stay.. and booked and paid for aprivate walking tour to the Vatican. Then I bought all of my excursions through HAL. * not from a lack of research but in deference to my mom who would find it easier to get from a-b*

 

Then I booked ( and paid for ) a one night post Rome stay.

 

Now I find myself making a back up B plan if HAL cancels my cruise. There is only one cruise ( NCL ) that fits my time frame but the cruise is shorter.

I decided instead on a land based vaca if I lose my cruise...Rome, Paris, Rome...or I am going to see if Delta will allow me to change to an open jaw. That way my air tickets aren't wasted. Being the anal planner I am I also have back up c and D plans too.

 

I won't be happy if my cruise is kaput, no not at all. I will feel like HAL took my money and was happy to do so until bigger money came along.

 

I know the odds are that HAL will not cancel my cruise in May due to a charter...but it really, really, really, sucks that the possiblilty is there:(:eek:

[DFD1]

The reality is that this sort of thing happens from time to time. It happens industry-wide, not just with HAL. However, because of the somewhat smaller sizes of HAL ships, they likely have more complete-ship charters than the other mainstream cruise lines.

[cruisinggranmama]

I would be unhappy too especially if it involved expensive airline tickets, arranging days off and (it goes without saying) anticipation of a wonderful cruise. Even though they have the right to do this, 7 months out does not make it good business and definitely not good customer relations.

[efoote01]

This happened to us as well thru Carnival (thank goodness I only had the cruise booked). Needles to say I will never book w/them again.

[Karennella]

I totally agree. I am busy booking flights for June and looking at Europe in september, and if I tied a cruise in with that, as we did last year, I would be very cranky if the cruise was cancelled.

[Krazy Kruizers]

This has happened a lot with HAL lately.

 

Most times people have gotten enough notice -- at least a year -- so many did not have airline tickets bought yet. But a few have been given short notice.

 

We have had it happen to us a couple of times over the years.

[jtl513]

This happened to us as well thru Carnival (thank goodness I only had the cruise booked). Needles to say I will never book w/them again.

It can happen with any cruise line, so I guess you had better stop cruising.

[sapper1]

------------------------

 

This is true, Maybe Liz should have said HAL doesn't treat SOME of their customers correctly". :rolleyes:

 

I know this can happen in the cruise industry but ( to me ) it does not make it right. :mad:

 

Many people research a cruise before they book. In my case I looked at all of the cruise lines/ports..and then visited here to get a feel of the type of passenger. I liked the posters here..there were not the usual " can you sneak booze on board" threads.. Then I got with my traveling people and we all cleared it with our jobs, hubbies, and dogs. The dogs were not pleased but they understood.:D

 

So I booked with HAL a roundtrip out of Italy. Watched air prices and when they went down I pounced and bought 3 air tickets. I saved $600.00 a peice ( 1800.00 ) buy buyng when I did...I did also buy trip insurance for the air portion too!

 

I also booked ( with HAL ) a 2 day pre cruise Rome stay.. and booked and paid for aprivate walking tour to the Vatican. Then I bought all of my excursions through HAL. * not from a lack of research but in deference to my mom who would find it easier to get from a-b*

 

Then I booked ( and paid for ) a one night post Rome stay.

 

Now I find myself making a back up B plan if HAL cancels my cruise. There is only one cruise ( NCL ) that fits my time frame but the cruise is shorter.

I decided instead on a land based vaca if I lose my cruise...Rome, Paris, Rome...or I am going to see if Delta will allow me to change to an open jaw. That way my air tickets aren't wasted. Being the anal planner I am I also have back up c and D plans too.

 

I won't be happy if my cruise is kaput, no not at all. I will feel like HAL took my money and was happy to do so until bigger money came along.

 

I know the odds are that HAL will not cancel my cruise in May due to a charter...but it really, really, really, sucks that the possiblilty is there:(:eek:

If your cruise is in May I think you can relax because chartering groups need a lot of lead-in time to fill the charters. It would be a risky proposition to chance a charter at this point and hope to fill the ship in time.

 

We had a 20 day European cruise on the Eurodam booked for the summer of 09 and the first 10 days of the cruise were chartered out at the 13 month mark. Holland America offered to let us keep the second 10 days and then tag on another 16 days which included a TA back to NYC. They offered us $400 OBC and offered the extra six days for $800 total in extra cost. This was for a VA cabin. We decided to take it and were treated to amazing visits to Greenland and Iceland. We never would have thought to go there if the situation had not unfolded as it did but now we are happy that things turned out that way. Mind you, when we were first told about the change we were less than happy. We had not yet booked airfare so that was not an issue. We missed going to Norway but now that can be another cruise.

 

We are retired so we have the option to be flexible. It must be a real dilemma for people who have to work around a vacation schedule or children's school breaks.

 

I do understand that when faced with a whole ship charter a year before sailing, the cruiselines have to take the guaranteed full ship price without having to worry themselves about actually filling the ship.

 

Your cruise sounds like it will be wonderful and here's fingers crossed that you will be able to make it. Somehow, at this point I think you will.

[doncarlos]

Remember HAL is a business and and such eyes the bottom line. It is certainly less costly [ on a per capita basis ] to operate charter rather than an individual sale cruise . As has been noted this happens all over the industry like it or not . Full disclosure : I own stock in Carnival Corp.and watch the bottom line and enjoy those dividend checks .:)

[BruceMuzz]

We live in a free market society where money talks - very loudly.

 

If you book a cruise, and three months out find a better deal with another cruise line, you can usually cancel the first cruise and book the cheaper one. This happens alarmingly often. The average mass market stateroom is sold 8 times before the cruise actually begins. This creates loads of extra work and confusion for the cruise line, but has become normal practice.

 

If you book a cruise, and the cruise line finds somebody willing to pay more money for your stateroom, they can cancel you and book the passenger willing to pay more. This happens rarely, and usually occurs many months before the cruise begins, allowing you ample time to find a better deal. This can be annoying or aggravating, but is rarely a life-changing event.

[sail7seas]

I'm sorry to read this happened to you but happy you found us here so you could vent your frustration.

Your thread title indicates HAL made a big mistake, but they really did not. They were able to generate higher revenue. They are a for profit business and their stock holders expect profits. They did not break any laws or do something in error. They made a profitable business decision.

 

This is not unheard of and all cruise lines do this.

You have a lot of lead time to make alternative plans.

When you book with a TA, ALL communication between you and the cruise line goes through that TA. That is why you have one. You cannot speak directly with the cruise line about your reservation so that is why you were advised about the charter through your TA. You chose to use them.

 

Hope you find a satisfactory alternative and have a great vacation.

[Boytjie]

I have only sailed on HAL on charters, so I too am a HAL customer :D

 

As has been said, charters are usually contracted about a year ahead. It would be rather unusual to have a ship chartered closer to the sail date but it has happened before.

 

Charters are very lucrative to the cruise line - I would expect that the per cabin rate they get can be higher than on a regular cruise where they may have to discount cabins to fill the ship. Now some charters may have lower spending onboard (I woudl imagine religious charters don't have as much spending on alcohol and in the casino) while others charters have much higher spending (for RSVP charters they set up extra bars out on deck when there are dance parties :) )

 

With ships getting bigger I would expect that HAL's smaller ships would continue to be popular for charters.

 

I can understand that it is disappointing that a cruise you booked is canceled due to a charter, but remember that a lot of other things can interfere in your plans too (airline goes out of business, volcanoes erupt grounding flights etc). With enough advance notice (and some incentives) one would hopefully be able to make alternate plans.

[Viesczy]

Remember HAL is a business and and such eyes the bottom line. It is certainly less costly [ on a per capita basis ] to operate charter rather than an individual sale cruise . As has been noted this happens all over the industry like it or not . Full disclosure : I own stock in Carnival Corp.and watch the bottom line and enjoy those dividend checks .:)

 

A business needs to remember that as a business that is in a form of customer service, how it services its customers is as paramount for the long term viability of the said business as the short term dividends are important. Don't believe me, check out Netflix & their recent debacle for proof positive of what I just stated. Dumping excrement on your core demographic is the surest way to alienate that core demographic to the point of them finding other options to provide the same service.

Sales is the transfer of enthusiasm and confidence where the seller is enthusiastic and confident in the product which they are selling and the client buys that enthusiasm and confidence. Typically the buyer isn't buying the product being sold but the person that is doing the selling; you buy the man, not the watch. The moment the enthusiasm and confidence falters in the client, say goodbye as once lost confidence and enthusiasm is not regained.

Operating in a bubble and acting with impunity has only one outcome.

Derek

[sail7seas]

HAL has been 'selling' their product for over 135+ years so one has to believe they have a grasp of how to sell cruises. :)

 

[baggal]

Besides refunding your deposit, I thought (mistakenly?) that the cruise line will reimburse you for at least the cost of changing your air tickets or any other expenses you may have already incurred if they cancel your reservation because they have chartered the ship? Is this still correct?

[tcook052]

Is there anyone else in my situation as well?

 

Yes, as I believe was under discussion here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1529945&highlight=cancelled

[Opinions]

HAL has been 'selling' their product for over 135+ years so one has to believe they have a grasp of how to sell cruises. :)

 

 

HAL was sold to the Carnival Cruise Corporation years ago...Apparently they couldn't make it as a independent cruise line.

[sail7seas]

That is over TWENTY Years ago. They have been run independently all this time.

[SwissMyst]

I appreciate your distress having what you thought were secure vacation planned aborted. However 8 months sounds like good lead time to make new vacation plans. The instability of countries today both politically and economically even in Western Europe make all future vacation planning precarious too.

 

And if you want to take this out on HAL, that is reasonable to you too. I think we can all trot out stories of vacation plans gone awry for all sorts or reasons, including weather.

[mountainmare]

I'm sorry that your plan A plans have to be changed. You do sound like a go with the flow planner, and quite frankly a land tour including Rome and Paris sounds great.

Go to tripadvisor to get even more plans and advice. You could make a huge adventure out of this and look into taking the train. Seat 61 is a wonderful site (and he's on tripadvisor also.)

Just because oringinally you were planning on a cruise with HAL doesn't mean that you have to take a cruise, especially since you already have you air covered.

I know that to use miles or get the best fares you do have to plan longer out than 8 months. If I was planning a trip overseas I would have most of the essentials already booked, I agree that to cancel the cruise at this somewhat late date is extremely disappointing.

Think about how many posters here say how they book their cruises as soon as they are open, well over a year in advance, to get the room and dining they want.

I know that you will have a wonderful trip, and if HAL gives you a discount or OBC for a future cruise, so much the better.

[worldspan]

HAL was sold to the Carnival Cruise Corporation years ago...Apparently they couldn't make it as a independent cruise line.

Holland America could have made it. However, money speaks, and every ship as well as every cruise line in fact is up for sale at any time "for the right price"

 

Worldspan

131 cruises strong

[whogo]

The Holland America cruise contract mentions nothing about allowing cancellation of a cruise because of a whole ship charter. Perhaps it is covered by "the need to render assistance to others [the whole ship charterers], or by "changes by third parties [the whole ship charterers]. I don't see where it says they can cancel your cruise because they can make more money doing something else, but it is probably stuck in their one sided contract somewhere. It is very clear that they owe nothing but the refund amount for the cancellation. Any legal wannabes care to weigh in?

 

 

 

Holland America cruise contract - http://www.hollandamerica.com/legalAndPrivacy/Main.action

 

"5. Change in Itinerary/Cancellation/Cabotage Laws: (a) Although we will use our best efforts to provide you with the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trips, situations may occur which require that changes be made.

 

"By way of example only, we may adjust itineraries and schedules, delay departures or arrivals, or cancel a Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip, due to casualty, weather, labor problems, the need to render assistance to others, governmental or insurer directives, passenger or employee injury or illness, schedule delays or changes by third parties, repair and maintenance requirements, fuel or other shortages, or damage to the Ship, other means of transportation, roads, tracks, bridges, docks, equipment or machinery.

 

"Furthermore, the Master of the Ship or of any other vessel as well as the operator of any other means of transportation may, in his/her sole discretion, elect not to proceed in the ordinary course. Consequently, we cannot guarantee the itinerary of the Cruise, Cruisetour or any Land Trip (including time of sailing from or arrival at any port or that all ports will, in fact, be called at, or that all places on your Cruisetour or Land Trip will be visited).

 

"We reserve the right to provide you with alternative transportation whenever the Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip is unable to proceed or be completed in the ordinary course or, in the case of hotels, to substitute facilities of similar category in cases where the planned hotel is unavailable due to overbooking or otherwise.

 

"(b) Your safety is very important to us. For safety or other reasons that we believe qualify as good cause, we may, without notice, substitute any suitable ship, ships or other means of transportation, change any date of sailing or travel or cancel any sailing, Cruisetour segment, port of call, Cruisetour or Land Trip destination or stopover, or the entire Land Trip, Cruise or Cruisetour.

 

"© If the Cruise or Cruisetour or a Land Trip is cancelled, we may disembark you at any port or terminate your travel at any location, and transship and forward (at our expense, but at your risk) you and your property to or toward a port or location from which you may return home or to the Ship, as appropriate. The means of conveyance may or may not belong to us and may or may not proceed directly to the desired destination.

 

"If a Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip is cancelled before commencement, you will be entitled, as your exclusive remedy, to receive the applicable Refund Amount. If a Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip is cancelled after commencement, you will be entitled, as your exclusive remedy, to receive the applicable Refund Amount less a reasonable allowance for transportation and services already provided to you. The reasonable allowance will be determined on a pro rata basis by taking into account the time missed relative to the scheduled duration of the Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip. Notwithstanding the foregoing, we are not obligated to issue any refund to you in the event of a cancelled Land Trip to Half Moon Cay."