My public letter to Royal: why do you keep pushing me away?

[coordinator23]

It took us many years to reach the Diamond Status. Like others, we were frustrated when the "carrot" was taken away. One of the nicer replacements for lost perks was the Diamond breakfast. On our recent "family cruise" my husband and I (in our 60's) and my parents (in their mid-80"s) went to the Diamond breakfast area on Serenade of the Seas. A large family group, of about 14-15 people, ate their about half of the time in the morning. After hearing about how "I have to go pee" and watching little ones tantrum (partly because the service was far to slow for pre-school kids), I asked why they were there (to the waiter). He claimed they were all "Diamond". (yeah right! I'm sure the "nanny" was too). Another woman insisted on bringing her closest friends into the room because she was Diamond and wanted to eat with them. The poor little hostest was afraid to turn people away. She would only ask for Diamond proof if older male staff was around watching her. My complaint(s). 1. It cheapens a so called "perk" if anyone can access it. I worked(spent) hard to get to the Diamond level. It's hard to not when you live in the Chicago area and have to fly into port. I like to feel appreciated. When anyone can walk in and take advantage, it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. If you want to eat with your friends, there is a main dining room (and boo-hoo if the non-Diamond friends have to PAY for a specialty coffee). 2. If children are being disruptive, remove them. Take into consideration that very young children cannot sit for an hour and enjoy their meal. Have the nanny (or one of the parents take them to the windjammer) if you are in a large party and want to enjoy a leisurely breakfast. Don't expect me to have to put up with their behavior (no matter how cute they are). Part of what I am saying follows a theme in this thread, Royal needs to enforce their own rules.:)

[Debde]

The age old 'things change' is a joke when you have people who have literally invested life savings in a company only to be ignored.

 

If you invested your life savings and own stock in RCCL-that was your choice to invest in this company.

If you have spent or spending your life savings on vacations, that is also your choice.

 

Neither one is a road I would take but to each his own.

[BruceMuzz]

While I agree that all cruiselines have to market to everyone, including families with children to fill their cruises (yes, I have kids and sometimes they cruise too), there is still never an excuse for why the cruiseline does not enforce their own rules.

 

Royal has a curfew for kids after a certain time, only to find young pre-teens, teens, and even a few really young kids running up and down the halls at all hours of the night, not to mention their fun elevator late night games. Just ENFORCE THE RULES.

 

They have rules against children being in the Adult Only areas of the ship, only to find the adult hot tub always loaded with teenagers at all hours of the day. Just ENFORCE THE RULES.

 

As far as C&A benefits go, I'm sure they have to change the rules with the changing times, however maybe they could at least find a better way of doing so. Ex. Why not have an early "soda" hour for family time in the Lounge, and have it open later to only adults? That's a compromise. They just need to quit throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and think outside the box. It's just not smart to alienate loyal customers when widening your market.

 

These are just a few examples, but really if the cruiselines would simply enforce their own rules, maybe it would be a better cruising experience for ALL. JMHO

 

It all sounds so easy - and it was until a few years ago. Then the cruise lines got a bit greedy. We started building bigger and bigger ships, taking advantage of economies of scale to improve the bottom line. It worked. But to fill those ships we were forced to market our cruises to all of humanity. We made cruises so inexpensive that people who would normally never cruise are on our ships - filling every cabin to improve profitability.

 

Many of those people have never stayed in a hotel in their lives; they have never traveled anywhere in their entire lives. They do not know how to behave in an international setting.

They cannot or will not afford a passport.

They cannot or will not afford to buy clothing to meet dress codes.

They have not trained their children how to behave in public.

Many of them cannot afford to pay their bar bills at the end of the cruise.

 

In the not so old days, if a passenger tried to wear shorts or inappropriate clothing in the dining room, he was politely informed that he would need to change his clothing for entry. He would apololgize and come back better dressed.

 

Today we need to inform a much larger percentage of our passengers that they are not properly dressed. Do they apologize and come back better dressed? No.

They throw a punch at the crewmember who informed them, then make up a wild story that he insulted them, trying to get the employee fired. They are often successful. Many of today's crew are not willing to sacrifice their careers in order to enforce a dress code.

 

I do not blame those raised by wolves for wanting to take a cruise. I blame the cruise lines for making it possible.

[finallyonboard]

Lawgirl,

 

I agree with everything you said. I have been loyal to royal for at least 20 years, but am becoming disenchanted because they seem to change their policies daily.

[Cruising89143]

While I agree that all cruiselines have to market to everyone, including families with children to fill their cruises (yes, I have kids and sometimes they cruise too), there is still never an excuse for why the cruiseline does not enforce their own rules.

 

Royal has a curfew for kids after a certain time, only to find young pre-teens, teens, and even a few really young kids running up and down the halls at all hours of the night, not to mention their fun elevator late night games. Just ENFORCE THE RULES.

 

They have rules against children being in the Adult Only areas of the ship, only to find the adult hot tub always loaded with preteens at all hours of the day. Just ENFORCE THE RULES.

 

As far as C&A benefits go, I'm sure they have to change the rules with the changing times, however maybe they could at least find a better way of doing so. Ex. Why not have an early "soda" hour for family time in the Lounge, and have it open later to only adults? That's a compromise. They just need to quit throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and think outside the box. It's just not smart to alienate loyal customers when widening your market.

 

These are just a few examples, but really if the cruiselines would simply enforce their own rules, and keep in mind prevouse promises made, maybe it would be a better cruising experience for ALL. JMHO

 

I think that the crew have given up on trying to enforce the rules. On our last cruise, I asked the Concierge why they were allowing people in the lounge in shorts and t-shirts after six. He stated that they had given up after it got rather nasty in the past. Seems someone was staying in the Royal Loft and was told that he would have to change his dress to stay in the lounge. Well it went south from there. Management backed up the guest and not their own associate. As long as RCI can fill the ships, they are happy.

[Big_G]

If you invested your life savings and own stock in RCCL-that was your choice to invest in this company.

If you have spent or spending your life savings on vacations, that is also your choice.

 

Neither one is a road I would take but to each his own.

 

OK, you got me. Obviously you missed the point or choose to ignore it. I haven't exactly spent a life savings on RCI but what I've spent could be a life savings to some and some have spent more than me. Just like any other business, if you're loyal to a company you expect to be heard and hopefully listened to. If you don't expect it, that's your business. Don't criticize me for expecting it.:rolleyes:

[Loonbeam]

Hear hear! We'd all like to think that everyone does their research and so forth, but as we've all noted, ship's impact is limited to on the ship.

 

Bruce makes a great point, from what I have seen when it comes to Customer versus Staff on here, we all ask for rules enforcement in the aggregate but then at the same time discuss how those rules can be bent or broken (count the number of posts on how to circumvent the beverage policy in the past week), AND we get upset at the staff for enforcing the rules that we personally don't like. And based on what I have seen, the line will more often than not take the side of passenger over staff if it comes down to individual confrontation. After all, staff members are easy to replace, there's a long waiting list I suspect. So I can't say I am surprised when staff chooses not to make a scene over a kid in the pool. OFFICERS on the other hand are a different matter.

 

 

 

It all sounds so easy - and it was until a few years ago. Then the cruise lines got a bit greedy. We started building bigger and bigger ships, taking advantage of economies of scale to improve the bottom line. It worked. But to fill those ships we were forced to market our cruises to all of humanity. We made cruises so inexpensive that people who would normally never cruise are on our ships - filling every cabin to improve profitability.

 

Many of those people have never stayed in a hotel in their lives; they have never traveled anywhere in their entire lives. They do not know how to behave in an international setting.

They cannot or will not afford a passport.

They cannot or will not afford to buy clothing to meet dress codes.

They have not trained their children how to behave in public.

Many of them cannot afford to pay their bar bills at the end of the cruise.

 

In the not so old days, if a passenger tried to wear shorts or inappropriate clothing in the dining room, he was politely informed that he would need to change his clothing for entry. He would apololgize and come back better dressed.

 

Today we need to inform a much larger percentage of our passengers that they are not properly dressed. Do they apologize and come back better dressed? No.

They throw a punch at the crewmember who informed them, then make up a wild story that he insulted them, trying to get the employee fired. They are often successful. Many of today's crew are not willing to sacrifice their careers in order to enforce a dress code.

 

I do not blame those raised by wolves for wanting to take a cruise. I blame the cruise lines for making it possible.

[ducklite]

Nope, I just said that your minimizing disability to make a point sounded heartless to me.

 

I'm most certainly not minimizing disabilities. You are trying to read something that simply isn't there.

[CruiseKeeper]

Not at all, I spent two years on and off in a wheelchair due to having a spinal tumor, so I've been there. I never expected to be able to cut in front of others and would wait my turn.

 

Duck, chill. Not one disabled person on this thread expected to cut in front of the line.

[dagored]

it all sounds so easy - and it was until a few years ago. Then the cruise lines got a bit greedy. We started building bigger and bigger ships, taking advantage of economies of scale to improve the bottom line. It worked. But to fill those ships we were forced to market our cruises to all of humanity. We made cruises so inexpensive that people who would normally never cruise are on our ships - filling every cabin to improve profitability.

 

Many of those people have never stayed in a hotel in their lives; they have never traveled anywhere in their entire lives. They do not know how to behave in an international setting.

They cannot or will not afford a passport.

They cannot or will not afford to buy clothing to meet dress codes.

They have not trained their children how to behave in public.

Many of them cannot afford to pay their bar bills at the end of the cruise.

 

In the not so old days, if a passenger tried to wear shorts or inappropriate clothing in the dining room, he was politely informed that he would need to change his clothing for entry. He would apololgize and come back better dressed.

 

Today we need to inform a much larger percentage of our passengers that they are not properly dressed. Do they apologize and come back better dressed? No.

They throw a punch at the crewmember who informed them, then make up a wild story that he insulted them, trying to get the employee fired. They are often successful. Many of today's crew are not willing to sacrifice their careers in order to enforce a dress code.

 

I do not blame those raised by wolves for wanting to take a cruise. I blame the cruise lines for making it possible.

 

bingo!!!!!

[Tralynn]

I think that the crew have given up on trying to enforce the rules. On our last cruise, I asked the Concierge why they were allowing people in the lounge in shorts and t-shirts after six. He stated that they had given up after it got rather nasty in the past. Seems someone was staying in the Royal Loft and was told that he would have to change his dress to stay in the lounge. Well it went south from there. Management backed up the guest and not their own associate. As long as RCI can fill the ships, they are happy.

Sad, but so true...

 

Maybe if more of us that wish to have the rules enforced would start speaking up to Management more things would change. I would think.....or at least, I would hope.....that we would outnumber those that wish to disregard and disrespect the rules. Of course, that's only wishful thinking......

 

No matter what your opinion is, it is always important to not just list it here but to send it directly to the cruiseline. You are buying their product and have a right to let them know your opinions and expectations.

[Lazz]

 

Many of those people have never stayed in a hotel in their lives; they have never traveled anywhere in their entire lives. They do not know how to behave in an international setting.

They cannot or will not afford a passport.

They cannot or will not afford to buy clothing to meet dress codes.

They have not trained their children how to behave in public.

Many of them cannot afford to pay their bar bills at the end of the cruise.

 

.

 

I am an advisor for a high school club that travels out of state every year. You are so correct that young people do not know how guests should behave. I inform my students what I require, in terms of behavior, if they wish to travel with me. My expectations for behavior while en route and at hotels are high, but they understand they represent the school and their families. What is shocking to me is to find out that their parents do not require this type of behavior when they travel.

[Ocean Boy]

Have to agree with this.

 

The truth is that many of the D+ are very vocal and think that they are the most important people onboard, staying in the cheapest cabin. Sooner they are banned from the CL the better. Sorry if that upsets.

 

A very very small percentage of RCI passengers post on this forum and so it is not representative of how passengers feel.

 

Enjoy your cruise for what it is and if the product is not right for you, find a product that is.

 

Why do you feel that we are not a good representation of the cruising public in general? We come from very different backgrounds and we cruise for many different reasons. I think that, as a whole, together we all bring a lot of different interests, likes, and dislikes to the table for discussion. Maybe many of us are a bit more passionate about cruising than the average cruiser but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

[ducklite]

Duck, chill. Not one disabled person on this thread expected to cut in front of the line.

 

I didn't say they did. I was responding to someone who said he has told people to give priority elevator access to those using mobility devices, I questioned why they should get this priority when others who were waiting longer might also have disabilities that prevent them from using the stairs.

[Debde]

OK, you got me. Obviously you missed the point or choose to ignore it. I haven't exactly spent a life savings on RCI but what I've spent could be a life savings to some and some have spent more than me. Just like any other business, if you're loyal to a company you expect to be heard and hopefully listened to. If you don't expect it, that's your business. Don't criticize me for expecting it.:rolleyes:

 

One cruise on an inside cabin could very well be someones life savings.

Expect a good vacation and you will go through life quite satisfied with the money you spent, one would think.

Be happy you can cruise.

Expecting something from a loyalty program that is free to join and is a thank you for returning, well, I just don't get it.

[willing292]

I have been holding this in and just have to get it out to my fellow CC posters (with full knowledge that I will be lambasted by some of you).

 

I have been loyal to Royal despite their every attempt to alienate my kind: a childless couple who want a nice cruise and the benefits of repeat customer appreciation.

 

You see, DH and I don't have children and don't particularly want to have tons of kids on our vacation. Yet, we like to cruise and can't afford to book ultra luxury or adults only cruises.

 

Yes, there are very well behaved children out there. But even those of you who parent such children must admit that there are also numerous kids whose parents let them run amuck on a cruise.

 

So we follow the rules: we take long itineraries on the off season, avoiding Holidays, etc. (except for the upcoming Allure trip, which I am doing just to see the ship). We go to the solarium, choose late seating, go to only late night shows.

 

Even so... There was the cruise where the kid cannonballed into the HOT TUB knocking over my $8 drink while dad told him he was cute. The kid who threw ice down from above while I was on my balcony. The one who thought it was fun to run back and forth between his inside cabin and his parents balcony room slamming doors. (yes, his parents left two elementary aged kids alone in the inside cabin while they enjoyed the balcony cabin).U

 

So, we book suites... At least we get some quiet time in the Conceirge Lounge. No more as most of you know. Yes, I like the free drinks. But not as much as I like (or used to like) having grown-up conversations. A place where we met the same adults every night to make new friends, where they had my favorite cocktail waiting...without worrying about kids running around . It is just a different atmosphere without kids.

 

Here's my main point AND my weariness with Royal. I play by your Rules. When booking a cruise, I don't shop Princess or NCI, I go to Royal. Why? I like your product, but you also lured me in with your programs and insincere promises of benefits. So if I am loyal, why do you keep changing your rules?

 

First, I buy stock because I get a shareholders discount. Whoops, sorry we are changing that rule so you can't combine it with other discounts and it is now worthless (except for the stock which plummeted).

 

Next, I reach Diamond only in time to have the Conceierge Privileges taken away.

 

Now, We are close to D+... Too bad, we're making your nightly respite cocktail hour into a family friendly soda fest.

 

So my years of loyalty, my tens of thousands of vacation dollars devoted to Royal mean this little.

 

Here's the thing.. I can't instantly become Diamond or Diamond Plus. It takes years, so when making my choice of cruiselines, i HAVE to rely upon what yoy say your benefits are. I booked all these cruises based upon what I expected to get in return. It is unfair to keep changing these rules. You suck me in, then water down your benefits.

 

Yes, I can start over with some other line and I will start shopping around. But what a shame - what a spit in the face to loyal customers - that I should have to do so.

 

When will they stop changing the Rules and realize that it takes all types (including us with no kids) to fill a ship.

 

OK, start lambasting me....

 

well said, thank you for voicing my opinion. there's a time and place for everyone, and the CL should not be for children.

[Ocean Boy]

This is the first I have ever heard a comment like that about Celebrity. Could you please elaborate? Shortage of activities? Land tours?

 

No, it has far more to do with sea days. I love the sports deck, rock climbing, flowriders, etc. I have a very hard time just sitting still for very long.

[Debde]

No, it has far more to do with sea days. I love the sports deck, rock climbing, flowriders, etc. I have a very hard time just sitting still for very long.

 

Ocean Boy-meet my husband!! :D

[jmrothermel]

Even though I am nowhere near Diamond status, I think that the CL should be only for adults. They earned the right to have somewhere they can go and relax where children are off limits. I don't think it's too much to ask that they have that area to unwind without having to worry about someone's unsupervised child.

 

I am no where near D, D+, or P either, but the CL is also for suite guests (which I do have access to on my next cruise), and I fully intend to visit once or twice. Now, I do have children, and if I decide to take one in with me at some point, I feel that they have the same right as well. They paid the same fare that I did, or the person down the hall. I didn't pay a cent less because they're not drinking the alcohol, or enjoying themselves in the CL. However, I do agree that it's not AO, and not a place for unsupervised children.

 

I have seen some HORRENDOUS :eek: behaviour on cruises that I have been on by children, that make me shake my head. My children (and yes I have 5), are by no means angels at all. But, I do teach them to be respectful. Wait your turn in line. Say please and thank you. Let people who are disabled or elderly before you. Take the stairs if the elevator is full and it looks like other people need the elevator more than you. Don't cut in line. Don't argue with each other. Don't run down halls. Don't go into adult only areas or adult only pools. Respect people who are older than you. Simple common courtesy. Unfortunately, what should be "common" courtesy isn't so "common" anymore, and that goes among adults as well. I have seen adults do things that I would pull my children back to the stateroom by their ears for and they would sit there for the rest of the day. Truely rude and inconsiderate behavior - and that's from full grown adults.

 

To the OP, what makes your childless loyalty more valuable than my childfilled loyalty? There has to be a comprimise between both sides somewhere. Unfortunately, unless you take an adults only cruise you run the risk of bad parenting - and that's something that Royal Caribbean has no control over. Those are the times I say you should have to have a license to be a parent. :mad:

[Cruisin824]

well said, thank you for voicing my opinion. there's a time and place for everyone, and the CL should not be for children.

 

Except for the fact that the rules state children can be there. Everyone is so big on RCCL not enforcing rules but they are enforcing this rule by allowing children in the CL. Soon the CL will be only for Suite guests and then the conversation will turn to being about the C&A members not being allowed in. When that day comes folks remember you made your own bed by complaining. The suite guests paid more to be in a suite and thus earned the perk while some that took a few cruises just want their free booze time. Call it what it is.

[luvscruising2007]

It occurs to me that the cruise line has decided to come down to the level of passengers who donot want to follow rules, policies or suggestions. It seems to me that the Cruise line should raise its expectations and make the passengers come up to a certain level. I know many passengers would be upset for awhile but eventually things would improve.

[beachnative]

i have been holding this in and just have to get it out to my fellow cc posters (with full knowledge that i will be lambasted by some of you).

 

I have been loyal to royal despite their every attempt to alienate my kind: A childless couple who want a nice cruise and the benefits of repeat customer appreciation.

 

You see, dh and i don't have children and don't particularly want to have tons of kids on our vacation. Yet, we like to cruise and can't afford to book ultra luxury or adults only cruises.

 

Yes, there are very well behaved children out there. But even those of you who parent such children must admit that there are also numerous kids whose parents let them run amuck on a cruise.

 

So we follow the rules: We take long itineraries on the off season, avoiding holidays, etc. (except for the upcoming allure trip, which i am doing just to see the ship). We go to the solarium, choose late seating, go to only late night shows.

 

Even so... There was the cruise where the kid cannonballed into the hot tub knocking over my $8 drink while dad told him he was cute. The kid who threw ice down from above while i was on my balcony. The one who thought it was fun to run back and forth between his inside cabin and his parents balcony room slamming doors. (yes, his parents left two elementary aged kids alone in the inside cabin while they enjoyed the balcony cabin).u

 

so, we book suites... At least we get some quiet time in the conceirge lounge. No more as most of you know. Yes, i like the free drinks. But not as much as i like (or used to like) having grown-up conversations. A place where we met the same adults every night to make new friends, where they had my favorite cocktail waiting...without worrying about kids running around . It is just a different atmosphere without kids.

 

Here's my main point and my weariness with royal. I play by your rules. When booking a cruise, i don't shop princess or nci, i go to royal. Why? I like your product, but you also lured me in with your programs and insincere promises of benefits. So if i am loyal, why do you keep changing your rules?

 

First, i buy stock because i get a shareholders discount. Whoops, sorry we are changing that rule so you can't combine it with other discounts and it is now worthless (except for the stock which plummeted).

 

Next, i reach diamond only in time to have the conceierge privileges taken away.

 

Now, we are close to d+... Too bad, we're making your nightly respite cocktail hour into a family friendly soda fest.

 

So my years of loyalty, my tens of thousands of vacation dollars devoted to royal mean this little.

 

Here's the thing.. I can't instantly become diamond or diamond plus. It takes years, so when making my choice of cruiselines, i have to rely upon what yoy say your benefits are. I booked all these cruises based upon what i expected to get in return. It is unfair to keep changing these rules. You suck me in, then water down your benefits.

 

Yes, i can start over with some other line and i will start shopping around. But what a shame - what a spit in the face to loyal customers - that i should have to do so.

 

When will they stop changing the rules and realize that it takes all types (including us with no kids) to fill a ship.

 

well said....we absolutely, totally agree with what you have said.

[Scotty G]

I will also stand back and let a disabled person go in the elevator before me. I have even asked others to wait and let someone in a scooter go in front of them.

 

I have seen disabled people waiting long periods of time for elevators, just like the rest of us.

 

I'm thankful I can still walk.

Agree completely!

[Scotty G]

I have 3 teen boys. You don't 'try to reason with him', you just tell him 'no', and that's that.

 

If you do this on a consistent basis, he'll eventually get the idea, sort of like training a puppy (and I have 2 of those as well). He'll still have the occasional tantrum, but not nearly as often as a toddler who gets his way all the time.

 

You asked.

Agree, children do not reach the point of reason until 7 years of age.

[niksmom630]

I swear-I'm not picking on you so please roll with me here for a bit:;)

 

How are they not rewarding those that are loyal but rewarding those who spend more??

 

No offense taken--I'm pretty thick skinned :) --actually, as I recall (and it was awhile ago) when I first joined C & A, one needed to get to Diamond level to access the concierge lounge, and all it's benefits (priority on excursions, reservation assistance, etc.) So, while not my number one priority, was certainly looking forward to those benefits once I got there. Just saying that the benefits continue to get watered down as the membership grows--not sure there's anything that can be done about that, and again it certainly won't stop me from cruising--but my point was: someone can take a cruise one time, get a junior suite, and enjoy all the benefits of the concierge club, while I, after spending lots of $$$$$ on RCCl cruises cannot. Just a pet peeve of mine