Costa Concordia SINKING

[USNUZULOOSE]

Sounds like "Left Coasters Unite" now there are 3. My winter place is in the Corona zip code, small world. The resort I have a site at is the Glen Eden Sun Club, you heard of it, just off the 15 at Indian Truck Trail Rd?

Yes I know where it is.

[Cuizer2]

Not counting water and fittings, the ship weighs about 115,000 tons. Finding enough anchor points and high tensile cable alone would be a challenge. Mix in water, fuel, ocean movement, I don't think its feasible.

 

The anchor points alone would have to be dug, sunk several dozen feet and wait for concrete or other filler to set.

 

If you are referring to the ship being 115,000 tons - that is a space rating, not a weight rating. One ton is equal to 100 cubic feet.

 

http://***************/grt.htm (Oops - I guess this is a competing site and thus forbidden.)

 

In the case of passenger ships, the word 'tonnage' is a measurement of space, NOT of weight. GRT (or Gross Registered Tonnage) measures the amount of enclosed space within the confines of the hull and superstructure. The problem is further complicated because there is no one universal standard of measurement for this. Americans measure gross tonnage by one set of criteria, the British use another, the Panama Canal has yet a third way for toll purposes, and the Suez Canal sets its own standard.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_ship

 

By convention and long usage, the size of civilian passenger ships is measured by gross tonnage, which is a measure of enclosed volume. Gross tonnage is not a measure of weight, although the two concepts are often confused. Weight is measured by displacement, which is the conventional means of measuring naval vessels. Often a passenger ship is stated to "weigh" or "displace" a certain "tonnage," but the figure given nearly always refers to gross tons.

[jopocop]

Yes, you sound right, that it is just not feasible. So, we all have to watch and wait and pray to see if it stays put at least until they can drain the fuel.

[jopocop]

I was hoping from an engineering standpoint something could be done, but, if there was, I we would be seeing that already done by now.

 

It looks gloomy that a big storm pushes it off the shelf...

[Cruiseorr]

Thank you DeckOfficer. I have read all your posts on this thread since Saturday with interest. I've always been interested in the why and how of things....I appreciate your contributions.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Finally - Carnival takes some action!!

 

Carnival Corporation announces fleetwide safety overhaul

 

Anita Dunham-Potter

 

 

 

 

Following the tragic Costa Concordia accident, Carnival Corporation, parent company of Costa Cruises and nine leading cruise lines around the world, today announced a comprehensive audit and review of all safety and emergency response procedures across all of the company’s cruise lines. Carnival Corporation is the parent company of ten cruise lines including Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Seabourn, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises, Cunard, Ibero Cruises, P&O Cruises (UK) and P&O Cruises (Australia).

 

Carnival Corporation and the cruise industry as a whole have maintained an excellent safety record over the years. “However, this tragedy has called into question our company’s safety and emergency response procedures and practices,” said Micky Arison, chairman and CEO of Carnival Corporation. “While I have every confidence in the safety of our vessels and the professionalism of our crews, this review will evaluate all practices and procedures to make sure that this kind of accident doesn’t happen again.”

The review is being led by Captain James Hunn, a retired U.S. Navy Captain and currently the company’s senior vice president of Maritime Policy & Compliance. Following a 32-year career in the Navy, Hunn has held senior positions at Carnival Corporation for nearly a decade, focusing on corporate-wide efforts to establish maritime policy standards, while overseeing the company’s health, environmental, safety, and security practices. Hunn and senior health and safety executives from each of the lines will review all safety and emergency response policies and procedures, officer and crew training and evaluation, bridge management and company-wide response and support efforts. Hunn will report to the Health, Environment, Safety & Security Committee of the Board, and to Howard Frank, vice chairman and chief operations officer of Carnival Corporation.

 

In addition, the Health, Environment, Safety & Security Committee is engaging outside industry-leading experts in the fields of emergency response organization, training and implementation to conduct an audit of all of the company’s emergency response and safety procedures and to conduct a thorough review of the Costa Concordia accident.

 

Frank said, “This company-wide initiative will identify lessons learned and best practices to further ensure the security and safety of all of our passengers and crew.” Carnival Corporation also supports the call for a comprehensive evaluation of safety regulations by the International Maritime Organization, which was requested earlier today by the Cruise Lines International Association.

[jtwitch]

 

Carnival Corporation announces fleetwide safety overhaul

 

Anita Dunham-Potter

 

 

It's probably not correct of the author to use the phrase "overhaul." What Carnival Corporation has announced is a "review and audit," which is not the same thing. An overhaul implies that problems have been found and are being corrected. A "review and audit" is a process by which they will review the current policies and procedures, and determine if the policies are sufficient and are being followed.

 

An overhaul may follow, but it is a bit sensationalistic to call this an overhaul.

[Leadft]

It's probably not correct of the author to use the phrase "overhaul." What Carnival Corporation has announced is a "review and audit," which is not the same thing. An overhaul implies that problems have been found and are being corrected. A "review and audit" is a process by which they will review the current policies and procedures, and determine if the policies are sufficient and are being followed.

 

An overhaul may follow, but it is a bit sensationalistic to call this an overhaul.

 

Agree. Carnival is calling it a "safety review" --

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/20/us-carnival-idUSTRE80I2EC20120120

[Cuizer2]

I'm not an engineer either, but my guess would be that any lines attached to the ship to hold it towards shore would exert way too much pressure onto the attachment points and literally tear the ship apart. Picture parking your car on a hill, putting on the emergency brake, and bolting 4 cables into a rock at the top of the hill and to 4 points on the car. Then take off the emergency brake. The cables most likely would pull the quarterpanels/sheet metal off the car and snap back towards the top of the hill, tearing the car apart and sending it careening down the hill.

 

That answer was SO MUCH BETTER than mine! Thank you. (Hangs head, embarrassed) :o

 

Actually I think you post was very good. You approached the issue in a different way than I did and mentioned something important that I just glanced over with my reference to "engineering".

 

To be honest, I'm just waiting for my two new friends to attack me again.

[Leadft]

Aye aye aye:

 

Another audio tape has been released in Italy revealing how a crew member of the Costa Concordia cruise ship reassured coast guards there was no emergency, 30 minutes or so after it hit rocks.

 

 

 

A coast guard asked the crewman if everything was all right and the crewman repeatedly said it was a blackout.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16641079

[Cuizer2]

Aye aye aye:

 

Another audio tape has been released in Italy revealing how a crew member of the Costa Concordia cruise ship reassured coast guards there was no emergency, 30 minutes or so after it hit rocks.

 

 

 

A coast guard asked the crewman if everything was all right and the crewman repeatedly said it was a blackout.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16641079

 

It was night time, I'm sure it was black out. :rolleyes:

[deckofficer]

Yes I know where it is.

 

Well, back on topic. Since we are all speculating how the salvage operation is going to take place, I will speculate also, because lets face it, it is like a lottery (but nothing to win), as we put our thoughts forward and then wait for how the pros will do it.

 

My speculation,

 

First, to head off destroying that pristine harbor, fuel oil needs to come off. I believe unlike the commercial ships I sail, bunker C is not the fuel oil but rather a more clean burning diesel. Diesel runs the range of 820~950 Kg/cubic meter, while sea water is 1025 Kg/cubic meter. This alone will be a touchy operation because the seabed that the ship lies in is steep, and its footing is not secure. For every gallon of fuel removed, 0.85 gallons of sea water needs to take its place to increase the odds of the ship not moving from its perch. After this operation is complete and the surrounding air has had the chance to dissipate the fumes, I would think patching by welding sheets to the exposed damage area would be the next step. Now the really tricky part, a re-float. There is no way this can be done with cranes, combined with de-ballasting due to the ship being in water so shallow. The only why I can see it done safely (I have no salvage experience, just instructors and text books during my academy years), is for divers to run cables under the ship across the beam from bow to stern and use the huge lifting air bags that salvage crews use. By the amount of air pumped into different bags, you can slowly lift and bring upright the ship in a controlled manner.

 

The above is just my speculation or as they say my 0.02 cents worth, and I'll be the first to admit that is all it is worth.

[Uniall]

 

Ship Stability diagram showing centre of gravity (G), centre of buoyancy (B), and metacentre (M) with ship upright and heeled over to one side. Note that for small angles, G and M are fixed, while B moves as the ship heels, while for big angles both B and M are moving.

 

Wikipedia? LOL

 

Wikipedia? LOL

 

 

Quote:

Copyright Infringement

The posting of blocks of text obtained from anywhere on the Internet, online newspapers, web sites, Facebook and other social media sites, magazines, etc., defeats the purpose of our Cruise Boards. All of this information is available to everyone online, and doesn't add to the idea of sharing firsthand experiences and cruise advice. Also, the majority of information out there is protected by an author's individual copyright. Therefore, we will remove such information from the message boards. However, linking via url to the information is allowed.

 

The one exception to this would be Cruise Line press releases. You may post these word for word on the boards, if you clearly indicate the source.

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/faq.php?faq=guidelines

 

ReallyItsMeMa

 

I think it might be in order to cut "Deck Officer" a little slack. He seems to be the only poster on this thread with very specialized maritime expertise in navigation, seamanship, and nautical engineering.

 

If using a diagram from wikipedia helps him communicate knowledge to us, I'm all for it.

 

Raising technical objections by posting rules which are intended to prevent copyright infringements seems a little harsh under present discussions and circumstances. Some rules are made to be broken (or bent) some of the time and this may be one of those times.

[SomeBeach]

Finally - Carnival takes some action!!

 

Carnival Corporation announces fleetwide safety overhaul

 

Anita Dunham-Potter

 

 

 

 

Following the tragic Costa Concordia accident, Carnival Corporation, parent company of Costa Cruises and nine leading cruise lines around the world, today announced a comprehensive audit and review of all safety and emergency response procedures across all of the company’s cruise lines. Carnival Corporation is the parent company of ten cruise lines including Carnival Cruise Lines, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises, Seabourn, AIDA Cruises, Costa Cruises, Cunard, Ibero Cruises, P&O Cruises (UK) and P&O Cruises (Australia).

 

Carnival Corporation and the cruise industry as a whole have maintained an excellent safety record over the years. “However, this tragedy has called into question our company’s safety and emergency response procedures and practices,” said Micky Arison, chairman and CEO of Carnival Corporation. “While I have every confidence in the safety of our vessels and the professionalism of our crews, this review will evaluate all practices and procedures to make sure that this kind of accident doesn’t happen again.”

The review is being led by Captain James Hunn, a retired U.S. Navy Captain and currently the company’s senior vice president of Maritime Policy & Compliance. Following a 32-year career in the Navy, Hunn has held senior positions at Carnival Corporation for nearly a decade, focusing on corporate-wide efforts to establish maritime policy standards, while overseeing the company’s health, environmental, safety, and security practices. Hunn and senior health and safety executives from each of the lines will review all safety and emergency response policies and procedures, officer and crew training and evaluation, bridge management and company-wide response and support efforts. Hunn will report to the Health, Environment, Safety & Security Committee of the Board, and to Howard Frank, vice chairman and chief operations officer of Carnival Corporation.

 

In addition, the Health, Environment, Safety & Security Committee is engaging outside industry-leading experts in the fields of emergency response organization, training and implementation to conduct an audit of all of the company’s emergency response and safety procedures and to conduct a thorough review of the Costa Concordia accident.

 

Frank said, “This company-wide initiative will identify lessons learned and best practices to further ensure the security and safety of all of our passengers and crew.” Carnival Corporation also supports the call for a comprehensive evaluation of safety regulations by the International Maritime Organization, which was requested earlier today by the Cruise Lines International Association.

 

You can bet that every cruise corporation is doing the exact same thing.

[Aus Traveller]

ReallyItsMeMa

 

I think it might be in order to cut "Deck Officer" a little slack. He seems to be the only poster on this thread with very specialized maritime expertise in navigation, seamanship, and nautical engineering.

 

If using a diagram from wikipedia helps him communicate knowledge to us, I'm all for it.

 

Raising technical objections by posting rules which are intended to prevent copyright infringements seems a little harsh under present discussions and circumstances. Some rules are made to be broken (or bent) some of the time and this may be one of those times.

Yes, I agree and thank Deck Officer for his posts. :):)

[IRL_Joanie]

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-19/concordia-is-at-high-risk-of-sinking-italian-minister-says.html

 

CONCORDIA IS AT HIGH RISK OF SINKING!

 

Can anyone on this forum tell me why the ship cannot be secured with heavy duty lines off of the nearby rocks. It seems to me that there should be many support lines pounded into the earth and fastened to the ship.

 

What is the engineering problems with that, as I am not an engineer?

 

Is it because the ship is so heavy, that with a violent surf all lines would give way in any event?

 

It seems to me that all costs the ship is saved from sinking!

 

I think, and remember I say I THINK....The reason(s) they cannot secure the ship is

 

1. What in the world would they secure it to??

2. This is a resort area and the reefs there are being damaged enough (and no I am not an environmentalist, but even I can see they cannot ruin the underwater habitat even more than it is being damaged now)

3. It is literally a Natural Treasure and is considered The pearl of the Tuscan Archipelago

 

QUOTE: "Isola del Giglio - The pearl of the Tuscan Archipelago The Isola del Giglio is one of the most "beautiful children in Tuscany", as they are called in the popular language. Giglio's mild climate, unspoilt nature and crystal-clear waters...." UNQUOTE

 

How would we like it if someone, in order to save a $450.million US Dollar ship ruined one of our national treasures???

 

I will use the US Grand Canyon as one example. If a $5 Billion US Dollar Satellite crashed into the Grand Canyon and the only way to retrieve it and possibly reuse it was to damage in any way shape or form the beauty of one of our (US) most beloved national treasures... NO WAY Jose!! We as Americans would be up in arms faster than you can say "Shut Up Joanie!"

 

Hope that makes sense:)

 

Joanie

[Uniall]

Reports don't jive.

One report states the Cowardly Captain is dining and boozing it up with his lady friend ...

Another states Cermotan was called up from dinner to help with translations of instructions for how the small number of Russian passengers should evacuate.

 

I'm thinking they were having a secret rendezvous' date=' secret love affair, and trying to cover their B***s so his wife doesn't find out. :cool:

 

I do not speak Filipino, but maybe someone on this thread does.

 

To translate what the cook is saying.

 

http://blog.cytalk.com/2012/01/costa-concordia-captain-ordered-dinner-as-ship-sank/[/quote']

 

Actually, Tagal is the native language of the Filipines but English is a primary language.

[SomeBeach]

Well, back on topic. Since we are all speculating how the salvage operation is going to take place, I will speculate also, because lets face it, it is like a lottery (but nothing to win), as we put our thoughts forward and then wait for how the pros will do it.

 

My speculation,

 

First, to head off destroying that pristine harbor, fuel oil needs to come off. I believe unlike the commercial ships I sail, bunker C is not the fuel oil but rather a more clean burning diesel. Diesel runs the range of 820~950 Kg/cubic meter, while sea water is 1025 Kg/cubic meter. This alone will be a touchy operation because the seabed that the ship lies in is steep, and its footing is not secure. For every gallon of fuel removed, 0.85 gallons of sea water needs to take its place to increase the odds of the ship not moving from its perch. After this operation is complete and the surrounding air has had the chance to dissipate the fumes, I would think patching by welding sheets to the exposed damage area would be the next step. Now the really tricky part, a re-float. There is no way this can be done with cranes, combined with de-ballasting due to the ship being in water so shallow. The only why I can see it done safely (I have no salvage experience, just instructors and text books during my academy years), is for divers to run cables under the ship across the beam from bow to stern and use the huge lifting air bags that salvage crews use. By the amount of air pumped into different bags, you can slowly lift and bring upright the ship in a controlled manner.

 

The above is just my speculation or as they say my 0.02 cents worth, and I'll be the first to admit that is all it is worth.

 

This seems to follow, with added information, what I saw in a news program about how to get the ship righted. It will be a long process as I understand just removing the fuel can take 2 to 4 weeks. During that time they have to hope the ship does not continue to slide.

[reallyitsmema]

ReallyItsMeMa

 

I think it might be in order to cut "Deck Officer" a little slack. He seems to be the only poster on this thread with very specialized maritime expertise in navigation, seamanship, and nautical engineering.

 

If using a diagram from wikipedia helps him communicate knowledge to us, I'm all for it.

 

Raising technical objections by posting rules which are intended to prevent copyright infringements seems a little harsh under present discussions and circumstances. Some rules are made to be broken (or bent) some of the time and this may be one of those times.

There are many posters posting on this thread that have actual maritime expertise. Others are just posting large blocks of text and taking credit for that information. To post that they are an actual editor of the quoted article and don't need to post the url is just crazy. The one and only time they edited that article was today and wiki has already reversed the edit because of lack of a published, credible source.

 

I agree that some rules are made to be broken, ok bent a little;), but outright lying about about something is going to far.

 

As I and many others have said many times, it would be great if this thread could stay with the actual facts.

[Fury1995]

You can bet that every cruise corporation is doing the exact same thing.

 

and I can't think of anyone who would be upset if they did, no matter which cruise line it is. ;)

[Loonbeam]

I sit corrected and thank you for the information..

 

Still willing to go with the fact that she's still probably fairly heavy, or more so than cables could easily handle.

 

If you are referring to the ship being 115,000 tons - that is a space rating, not a weight rating. One ton is equal to 100 cubic feet.

 

http://***************/grt.htm (Oops - I guess this is a competing site and thus forbidden.)

 

In the case of passenger ships, the word 'tonnage' is a measurement of space, NOT of weight. GRT (or Gross Registered Tonnage) measures the amount of enclosed space within the confines of the hull and superstructure. The problem is further complicated because there is no one universal standard of measurement for this. Americans measure gross tonnage by one set of criteria, the British use another, the Panama Canal has yet a third way for toll purposes, and the Suez Canal sets its own standard.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_ship

 

By convention and long usage, the size of civilian passenger ships is measured by gross tonnage, which is a measure of enclosed volume. Gross tonnage is not a measure of weight, although the two concepts are often confused. Weight is measured by displacement, which is the conventional means of measuring naval vessels. Often a passenger ship is stated to "weigh" or "displace" a certain "tonnage," but the figure given nearly always refers to gross tons.

[Uniall]

There are many posters posting on this thread that have actual maritime expertise. Others are just posting large blocks of text and taking credit for that information. To post that they are an actual editor of the quoted article and don't need to post the url is just crazy. The one and only time they edited that article was today and wiki has already reversed the edit because of lack of a published, credible source.

 

I agree that some rules are made to be broken, ok bent a little;), but outright lying about about something is going to far.

 

As I and many others have said many times, it would be great if this thread could stay with the actual facts.

 

 

Really Its Me Ma

I won't let you draw me into a public squabble.

 

But, the primary rule of all of these threads is that it is permissable to disagree with a posters presentations and state your counter position. But, launching personal attack on the poster is a no no.

 

In my opinion, you seem to have come right up to (if not crossed) the line.

[IRL_Joanie]

Since this horrific accident happened, there have been lights shining onto the ship illuminating it for whatever reasons, rescue, recovery....

 

Just a few minutes ago, the ship went totally dark:eek: No lights are shining on the ship or that immediate vicinity. I have double checked it against 2 separate Giglio Web Cams:

 

http://www.world-cams.be/live/3728

http://www.giglionews.it/2011052057453/webcam/isola-del-giglio/webcam-spiaggia-arenella-isola-del-giglio.html

 

Not going to speculate, but this has me greatly concerned....

 

Joanie

[mcrcruiser]

I just went to the Costa Link you provided, Thank you:) And clicked on the 3rd video on the right. It took me to a You Tube page which has at the top right a video where the Costa Official (no idea who he is) discusses Law Suits.

 

NOW, I have not watched it in its entirety as I know people want this kind of info so I rushed back here to post the You Tube Link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O8Eh6qiOSQ&feature=relmfu

 

Joanie

 

Joanie thanks for the video link :). He must be the CEO of costa .Very inforamtive;)

[deckofficer]

There are many posters posting on this thread that have actual maritime expertise. Others are just posting large blocks of text and taking credit for that information. To post that they are an actual editor of the quoted article and don't need to post the url is just crazy. The one and only time they edited that article was today and wiki has already reversed the edit because of lack of a published, credible source.

 

I agree that some rules are made to be broken, ok bent a little;), but outright lying about about something is going to far.

 

As I and many others have said many times, it would be great if this thread could stay with the actual facts.

 

So I guess you are suggesting that every maritime article I have posted to Wiki that I remembered to include footnotes and sources (which I didn't today, but had Wiki researched on their own would have known the validity) I dig through and link for your satisfaction? Do you have a secretary you could offer for that chore?