Costa Ship grounded or sinking

[cruzinchris]

The idiot was showboating. That's really what it comes down to. The arrogance and stupidity is beyond comprehension, and the media isn't helping by getting so many facts wrong and making incorrect assumptions. Heck, Diane Sawyer on ABC the other night called the ship the "Carnival Concordia" three times in two minutes, never mentioning Costa. She also said that the ship was owned by Carinival Cruise Lines. Who does her research and fact checking?

 

I call it wanton hubris. jmo

[bugspost]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/costa-concordia-captain-tripped_n_1212640.html?ncid=wsc-huffpost-cards-headline

 

Now he is saying he tripped & fell in lifeboat....HA!

[Pam in CA]

I'm pretty sure ABC knows its the Costa not Carnival, but they know that people are familiar with Carnival and since it's owned by Carnival they didn't think it was incorrect. I heard the same on the radio in Washington DC and the reporter referred to it as "Canival" and people started calling in bashing Carnival, it just starts the ball rolling.

Actually, I'm not so sure ABC knows that because they specifically said that Carnival Cruise Lines owns Costa. They probably made the same assumption we see here on CC all the time that Carnival Cruise Lines owns Princess, mistaking it for the holding company, Carnival Corporation & Plc only in their case, they should do their research and have the facts. If it was a Cunard ship, I wouldn't be surprised if they said the same thing.

[Aus Traveller]

Actually, I'm not so sure ABC knows that because they specifically said that Carnival Cruise Lines owns Costa. They probably made the same assumption we see here on CC all the time that Carnival Cruise Lines owns Princess, mistaking it for the holding company, Carnival Corporation & Plc only in their case, they should do their research and have the facts. If it was a Cunard ship, I wouldn't be surprised if they said the same thing.

In Australia we have the Pacific Dawn, the Dawn Princess, the Pacific Sun and the Sun Princess. You can only imagine how confused the press (and sometimes the public) gets.:D

[bdjam]

mmmm...I'm not sure about all that. I don't know that we can say Costa (not Carnival) doesn't adequately train for disasters like this. The crew of Concordia did get over 4000 people safely off that ship before it became uninhabitable...they wouldn't have been able to do that if they hadn't been adequately trained. I think the real issue is the lack of command/coordination during the evacuation. It seems that those who should have been leading the effort were the ones that were lacking.

 

I agree that ships today are built for revenue rather than safety - but if they do live up to international regulations, they should be - for the most part - safe. I don't know if there is training on how to handle a listing ship and launching survival craft, but I would imagine that most scenarios are covered in drills...right, it's not like the real thing, but it behooves the cruise lines to have a good safety record so that they can continue to create that revenue.

 

And I really think as passengers, we need to take some of the responsibility as well. Obviously on a ship of 4000 that's taking on water, we can't expect personal attention. We need to know what we should do and when we should do it - and then we have to trust that those in command are looking out for our best interests.

 

We need to focus on demanding better training for these worst type of disasters instead of simply insisting this captain be buried under a rock for life.

 

Carnival does not adequately train for extremely stressful disasters where power goes out and the ship lists. Additionally these floating 10+ story hotels are not designed to prevent this type of disaster and I never see that changing.

 

But better training, automatic dispersal of floating inflatible life rafts and other changes could be initiated as a backup when it is not possible to get passengers in to the normal life rafts in a timely fashion.

[bdjam]

Good old Regal Princess...

 

In Australia we have the Pacific Dawn,

[bugspost]

parent company, Carnival Corporation.

[Aus Traveller]

mmmm...I'm not sure about all that. I don't know that we can say Costa (not Carnival) doesn't adequately train for disasters like this. The crew of Concordia did get over 4000 people safely off that ship before it became uninhabitable...they wouldn't have been able to do that if they hadn't been adequately trained. I think the real issue is the lack of command/coordination during the evacuation. It seems that those who should have been leading the effort were the ones that were lacking.

 

I agree that ships today are built for revenue rather than safety - but if they do live up to international regulations, they should be - for the most part - safe. I don't know if there is training on how to handle a listing ship and launching survival craft, but I would imagine that most scenarios are covered in drills...right, it's not like the real thing, but it behooves the cruise lines to have a good safety record so that they can continue to create that revenue.

 

And I really think as passengers, we need to take some of the responsibility as well. Obviously on a ship of 4000 that's taking on water, we can't expect personal attention. We need to know what we should do and when we should do it - and then we have to trust that those in command are looking out for our best interests.

The crew didn't get over 4,000 people safely off. The crew did get the majority off, but many had to jump overboard and swim to shore and others were taken off by helicopter (thanks to the Italian Coast Guard). Then there are the poor souls who didn't get off, or who may have drowned while trying to swim ashore.

 

I agree, we have to take some responsibility, but I think we can reasonably expect the ship's officers to be in charge. From what we read it was chaos (that word has been used by several survivors).

[kywildcatfanone]

So I've been thinking about this. Is it not obvious that Costa would know that their captain was taking the ship off course since it has come out now that it has been done several times and even recorded and put on youtube?

Since the ship is typically on auto-pilot and controlled by computer, wouldn't Costa be able to look at navigational logs from previous cruises and see that the auto-pilot has been turned off and the ship guided closer to shore on other occasions? I'm sure they have data showing that on previous cruises. I wonder why they didn't stop it previously knowing that it was a hazard.

 

I'm guessing these questions will be answered at various trials, but I have to believe they knew this captain had a history of doing this.

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

While I still think ships captains can be trusted 100% to look after us the passengers, there will be from time to time something like this sinking that makes us question them and the systems in place.

 

In some of the worlds shipping lanes movements are over seen by the coast guard, bigger ships or those with hazordous cargo need to provide

route information,

 

so does this need to be extended like the way air space is controlled,

 

now I am not just thinking about cruise ships, but all those oil tankers that crash or the container ship that hit the reef of NZ.

 

may be the freedom of the open seas is one thing but within x miles of land ships movement needs to be overseen

 

yours shogun

[Iamcruzin]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/18/costa-concordia-captain-tripped_n_1212640.html?ncid=wsc-huffpost-cards-headline

 

Now he is saying he tripped & fell in lifeboat....HA!

 

I just heard this on the Today Show. They also mentioned that he had a female stowaway.

[Katelab]

A lot of the ship is still above water. Some very brave crew members did help customers, but if a ship ever lists like this in deeper water thousands of lives could be lost as it QUICKLY goes below the water line.

 

severe Listing and sinking are VERY bad and the officers realize that and abandoned the passengers.

 

You will NEVER get enough life boats launched once severe listing occurs. There needs to be better training and back up automatically launched inflatable life rafts for people to swim to.

 

The colder the water the more worthless a life vest becomes. Running aground and being close enough to shore so people could swim on their own made a big difference. If this had been steered differently to deeper water and the swim was 1 mile to shore the number of lives lost would have increased dramatically.

 

 

mmmm...I'm not sure about all that. I don't know that we can say Costa (not Carnival) doesn't adequately train for disasters like this. The crew of Concordia did get over 4000 people safely off that ship before it became uninhabitable...they wouldn't have been able to do that if they hadn't been adequately trained. I think the real issue is the lack of command/coordination during the evacuation. It seems that those who should have been leading the effort were the ones that were lacking.

 

I agree that ships today are built for revenue rather than safety - but if they do live up to international regulations, they should be - for the most part - safe. I don't know if there is training on how to handle a listing ship and launching survival craft, but I would imagine that most scenarios are covered in drills...right, it's not like the real thing, but it behooves the cruise lines to have a good safety record so that they can continue to create that revenue.

 

And I really think as passengers, we need to take some of the responsibility as well. Obviously on a ship of 4000 that's taking on water, we can't expect personal attention. We need to know what we should do and when we should do it - and then we have to trust that those in command are looking out for our best interests.

[Princess Patches]

They also mentioned that he had a female stowaway.

 

Yes, I read he was entertaining a young blonde woman on the bridge at the moment of impact and the investigators are trying to locate her as an eyewitness.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/19/costa-concordia-woman-seen-captain

[pablo222]

so does this need to be extended like the way air space is controlled,

 

There are areas where there are vessel traffic control systems

in place.

[moniquet]

According to SKY TV the mystery woman has been interviewed by Moldovian TV. She had dinner with the Captain and only went onto the Bridge after the impact as she was asked to issue instructions in Russian to passengers...that's her story anyway:confused:

[Shogun]

Hi All

 

media here is reporting that a new tape has come to light

 

any one heard it

 

it says that the first the coast guard knew of the accident was when local police called them since a person onboard had called home to tell them about the accident they told the police who asked the coast guard.

 

the cost guard contacted the ship and asked the captain if everything was OK

 

his reply was that it was that the ship had lost power for twenty minutes

but no problem.

 

just how many mistakes can one man make

 

 

yours shogun

[Shogun]

Hi all

 

BBC just played new tape, amazing the coast guard, the police all knew the ship was in trouble well before the ship said it needed help.

 

Crew now saying captain left ship before order to abandon ship, that is why another officer had to give order.

 

 

yours shogun

[Pam in CA]

In Australia we have the Pacific Dawn, the Dawn Princess, the Pacific Sun and the Sun Princess. You can only imagine how confused the press (and sometimes the public) gets.:D

That I agree with. :) But for a major TV network to mis-identify the company/owner not once but multiple times?

[Princess Patches]

Hi all

 

Crew now saying captain left ship before order to abandon ship, that is why another officer had to give order.

 

 

Yes, read something similar that there was another Costa Captain (Roberto Bosio of the Costa Serena) on board the ship who actually started the evacuation of the ship when he became angry that the captain had not made the abandon ship call more than an hour after the incident.

 

The report stated that Captain Bosio was off duty and hitching a ride home. He was not part of the crew, but he allegedly took over command of the ship at about 11:00 p.m. after the captain and senior officers all "tripped and fell" into the lifeboat and left the ship. Captain Bosio alleges he stayed on the ship until the last passenger was removed about 5:00 a.m.

 

Google "Captain Roberto Bosio" and you will see several articles about it.

[JanaJohn]

...the media isn't helping by getting so many facts wrong and making incorrect assumptions. Heck, Diane Sawyer on ABC the other night called the ship the "Carnival Concordia" three times in two minutes, never mentioning Costa. She also said that the ship was owned by Carinival Cruise Lines. Who does her research and fact checking?

 

We all need to remember this when we watch ANY news report on ANY channel. I believe in their rush to be first on the air with a news story that accuracy becomes a secondary consideration. They constantly tell us about all the fact checking they do yet we keep seeing things like this. Many times I wonder why I seem to have more accurate information than the large networks (and newspapers) seem to provide. I try to get my information from a variety of sources.

[Katelab]

That I agree with. :) But for a major TV network to mis-identify the company/owner not once but multiple times?

 

Actually, in a law suit it is very easy to pierce through the corporations or LLC and get to the parent company in this case Carnival. Most people can not be bothered with the details of the brands like people on this thread and would get confused.

 

Plaintiffs lawyers will refer to it as Carnival and considering the attention span of the average viewer it is not unreasonable for a network to choose to not get into the details and just report it as Carnival. Heck I spoke with one of Carnivals lawyers once and she bragged about her client Carnival with over 100 ships in its fleet.

 

Now if they had reported a different large cruise line I would agree with you, but I think you are just wrong on this because you are to familiar with the details.

[Pam in CA]

Actually, in a law suit it is very easy to pierce through the corporations or LLC and get to the parent company in this case Carnival. Most people can not be bothered with the details of the brands like people on this thread and would get confused.

 

Plaintiffs lawyers will refer to it as Carnival and considering the attention span of the average viewer it is not unreasonable for a network to choose to not get into the details and just report it as Carnival. Heck I spoke with one of Carnivals lawyers once and she bragged about her client Carnival with over 100 ships in its fleet.

 

Now if they had reported a different large cruise line I would agree with you, but I think you are just wrong on this because you are to familiar with the details.

You're right. The devil is in the details but I still think it's mis-information to call the ship the Carnival Concordia several times in a row and not even mention Costa. We're supposed to get fact-checked information from the media but I guess that's no longer the case.

[OldSeaDog]

You're right. The devil is in the details but I still think it's mis-information to call the ship the Carnival Concordia several times in a row and not even mention Costa. We're supposed to get fact-checked information from the media but I guess that's no longer the case.

 

So, what else might that suggest about the incessant drivel on the evening "news?" :)

[RickEk]

A lot of the ship is still above water. Some very brave crew members did help customers, but if a ship ever lists like this in deeper water thousands of lives could be lost as it QUICKLY goes below the water line.

 

severe Listing and sinking are VERY bad and the officers realize that and abandoned the passengers.

 

You will NEVER get enough life boats launched once severe listing occurs. There needs to be better training and back up automatically launched inflatable life rafts for people to swim to.

 

The colder the water the more worthless a life vest becomes. Running aground and being close enough to shore so people could swim on their own made a big difference. If this had been steered differently to deeper water and the swim was 1 mile to shore the number of lives lost would have increased dramatically.

 

But it appears from all accounts that the ship was only listing slightly after the initial collision with the reef. When the captain brought the ship closer to shore by initiating a very tight turn to port and ran it aground, that's when the ship severely listed in the opposite direction. Once it was aground, that's when they started evacuating the ship with the subsequent problems with launching the lifeboats as the ship quickly listed. It seems pretty clear to me, that if the ship had stopped and begun the evacuation while still offshore, all the boats would have been launched and there would have been minimal (if any) loss of life.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/interactive-graphics/9018076/Concordia-How-the-disaster-unfolded.html

[TLC535]

Very surreal site....sister ship (Serena) passing last night....

 

thoughts & prayers for all involved.