Lighters

[CruisinFools]

With so much activity regarding smoking (as there usually is), a thought crossed my mind and I wanted to share it. I've found that CC'ers have a wide variety of opinions and even if I don't always agree, it's interesting to hear other people's points of view. In any case, we all know now that lighters are amongst the other (ridiculous, IMO) items that are not allowed on board airplanes, in the name of security. Many people will say that, since the flights are non-smoking anyway (and no, I don't want to open a can of worms on THAT topic!), who needs a lighter? Well, anyone who's unfortunately addicted to nicotine will know that, after several hours without a smoke, even with nicotine gum (that's my husband's solution), once you are off the plane and outside the terminal, the first thing you want to do is light up. (Up to 4 books of matches are allowed, at least for now, but most smokers I know prefer lighters. They don't like the "taste" of the sulphur that comes off a lit match. Yes, even smokers with their "filthy" addiction have standards!)

Anyway, I was just wondering what you think of this. Personally, I think it's just plain ridiculous. We are given knives and forks to eat with. We are allowed to bring on pens and pencils (both of which can be used in a number of dangerous ways. Through the eye, ear, jugular, etc.) A lit match and a can of hairspray or deoderant makes a reliable blowtorch.

I'm all for security, but I think the ban on lighters is extreme. What do you think?

[suziehmkr]

I don't have an opinion on the lighters because I am not a smoker, but I will never forget my first flight after 9/11. My friend ordered a Bloody Mary and the stirrer that came in her drink was long enough to wrap your hands around and sharp enough to puncture your skin!! :eek:

[bjboothman]

Cruisinfools, for all the reasons you stated --- the availability of many potential weapons just as deadly as a lighter if not more so --- it is ludicrous to single out lighters. It's sad that such nonsense gives so many people a false sense of security. I lost my manicure scissors at the security checking - I think the dull blades were about 1/4 inch long - what a threat (yes I know, my own fault for forgetting to put them into the packed luggage -- but a ridiculous rule nonetheless).

[AliceJ]

The sad fact is that much of the security rules/procedures that are in place to make us "feel safer" only do just that. These procedures may stop the spur-of-the-moment/crime-of-passion type person, but if someone is really determined to cause problems on an aircraft and have planned ahead of time, it is unlikely they will be stopped.

 

We flew out of Amsterdam less than a month after 9/11. My DH and I each had a personal interview with security personnel, our luggage was screened while we were standing next to it, we were asked to identify any electric/electronic devices in our luggage while it was being screened (we weren't looking at the images as we listed what we had), we went through 1 metal detector, 2 personal screening, THEN passport control, another metal detector, at least one more personal screening, and had our carry-on luggage taken apart (and put back together). Seem excessive? EVERY person on our flight had the same level of screening, and this was done extremely efficiently (we arrive 1-1/2 hours ahead of our flight, and made it with time to spare).

 

If we had this level of screening done for every passenger on every flight, then some of the bans on lighters, small scissors, etc may make more sense, but even then I'm not so sure.

 

Happy flying to all!

[98Charlie]

We are given knives and forks to eat with. We are allowed to bring on pens and pencils (both of which can be used in a number of dangerous ways. Through the eye, ear, jugular, etc.) A lit match and a can of hairspray or deoderant makes a reliable blowtorch.

I'm all for security, but I think the ban on lighters is extreme. What do you think?

I'm no security expert but it would seem that the difference is that an incendiary device (lighter in conjunction with other flammable materials or explosives) is much more hazardous to the entire aircraft than a one-on-one weapon (any makeshift stabbing/puncture device).

 

The heat and flame produced by a book (or several) of matches would not equal the potential of a disposable lighter.

 

Regarding hairspray and matches, the flame of the match would only last for a few seconds before you would have to light another match.

 

Just some thoughts,

 

Charlie

 

P.S. The sulpher taste problem when lighting a cigarette can be solved by allowing the match to burn for 3 or 4 seconds before applying to the cigarette.

[Toto2Kansas]

From what the news has been reporting all day, this has been in the works since the shoe bombers failed attempt to blow up an aircraft. IF he would have had a lighter instead of just matches, he probably would have suceeded in his attempt.

 

They say the next thing to become taboo will probably be matches of any kind.

 

I still agree that IF someone wants to do damaged, anything from a sharpened pencil on down can accomplish just that.

But now they allow us to take knitting needles and crochet hooks onboard any aircraft but are still breaking off those tiny little files that are attached to fingernail clippers.

 

Too me, it is all TOO LITTLE and far TOO LATE! IMHO opinion of coarse.

[suziehmkr]

But now they allow us to take knitting needles and crochet hooks onboard any aircraft but are still breaking off those tiny little files that are attached to fingernail clippers.

On a flight out of San Jose to Kansas City (not sure which airline), my friend was not able to take her knitting needles in her carry on. The curbside porter saw them and told her to put them in her checked luggage. Not sure if it was airport specific or airline specific.

[Toto2Kansas]

I had actually thought that knitting needles were also banned until last year when I saw a flight attendant knitting in the airport. As we chatted she told me that they are now legal (which she said even surprised her). Since then, I take mine on every flight and although they look at them closely, I have never had to leave them behind. (Took them from Kansas City to San Diego and then Fort Lauderdale back to Kansas City just in the last few weeks) Sounds like maybe it was an airport rule but not an FAA rule for your friend.

I know I was totally shocked that they would allow them on any aircraft, you could do some serious damage with those medal needles. :D

[kryos]

Anyway, I was just wondering what you think of this. Personally, I think it's just plain ridiculous. We are given knives and forks to eat with. We are allowed to bring on pens and pencils (both of which can be used in a number of dangerous ways. Through the eye, ear, jugular, etc.) A lit match and a can of hairspray or deoderant makes a reliable blowtorch.

I'm all for security, but I think the ban on lighters is extreme. What do you think?

I think it truly sucks. It's gonna make life very difficult for someone like me who is heading to a cruise port, via public transportation (shuttle van), with no way to buy a replacement lighter for the cruise. You won't be able to buy them in the airport, from what I understand, and they don't sell lighters on the cruise ship. That means I will have to wait until my first port to get a lighter. In the case of the cruise I am leaving for on Tuesday, that first port is five days into the cruise (Hilo, Hawaii).

 

Of course, I plan to bring some matches and I also full well intend to pack a lighter or two in with my check-in luggage. I can't believe TSA is gonna be able to spot every single lighter in every single passenger bag ... especially the bags that are checked.

 

I remember on a flight last January out of Fort Lauderdale ... I took my checked baggage over to the X-ray station and the TSA guy asked me if I had any lighters in my bag. I got that patented "stupid look" that I am good at displaying and said "ahhhhhhh, I don't think so" and he took the bags for X-raying. I was shortly thereafter waved on my way. I had two lighters in my cosmetic case inside of one of those checked bags.

 

Maybe I can understand the necessity of not permitting lighters in carry-on luggage, and I can deal with that. But not to allow them in your checked bags ... bags that are inaccessible to you once aboard the aircraft ... is just plain stupid.

 

Just my humble opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Toto2Kansas]

kryos, I think you will get a surprise when you pack any lighter in your checked luggage. They WILL find it, root through your luggage to retrieve it and you will end up with a big mess on your hands. They are very serious about this lighter thing in both carry on and checked luggage!

[CruisinFools]

Thanks for all your responses. So now, the question is... where is the closest convenience store to the airport in Pape'ete?

[Hondu]

Of course, I plan to bring some matches and I also full well intend to pack a lighter or two in with my check-in luggage. I can't believe TSA is gonna be able to spot every single lighter in every single passenger bag ... especially the bags that are checked.

--rita

 

Who cares what the law is because it sure doesn't pertain to me, huh?

[Toto2Kansas]

Thanks for all your responses. So now, the question is... where is the closest convenience store to the airport in Pape'ete?

 

Your kidding right? From what we are used to in the U.S., there is no such thing in Tahiti. But there are small stores that sell lighters at the end of the pier, no stores to speak of at the airport like that. Take along a couple of books of matches, that should get you through.

[critterchick]

I've never looked, not being a smoker, but surely they sell disposable lighters in the sundries shop? I have seen the souvenir lighters, but of course they will cost more and you can't bring them home with you.

[calikak]

I looked into the knitting needle thing last fall when I was flying, and found conflicting info from TSA about knitting needles. One thing said they were all fine, the other said no metal kneedles. I just got a set of those needles that have interconnecting parts (I think they're by a company named Denise but I could be remembering the name wrong) and they're all plastic so I don't have to worry about it going through security.

 

The airport in Seattle has at least one gift shop that's outside of the secure area, I wonder if they'll still sell lighters? If so, they'll probably make a fortune from people getting off of planes. I don't see why it's such a big deal to just bring matches along instead of a lighter, but then again, I'm not a smoker.

[kryos]

I've never looked, not being a smoker, but surely they sell disposable lighters in the sundries shop? I have seen the souvenir lighters, but of course they will cost more and you can't bring them home with you.

From what I understand, shops in the airports will not be allowed to sell them anymore either.

 

If they could, I wouldn't be complaining about the new rule. I'd just leave my lighters at home and pick up a new one as soon as I got off the plane. No problem.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Who cares what the law is because it sure doesn't pertain to me, huh?

Some "laws" are just plain stupid. What next? Can't pack jackets with large buttons, CDs, shoes with pointy heels ... silk underwear?

 

Something like a small disposable lighter in a checked bag cannot possibly present a risk to passengers on the airplane.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Dreamer333]

I have no idea if this is true or not...

 

but I was talking to one of my customers/clients who told me that his wife has been allowed (recently) to bring her knitting needles on board so she can knit during the flights!

 

Knitting needles!! But no lighters?? Has anyone heard of or seen anyone being allowed knitting needles on the plane??

 

(I know that this thread is older, but I thought I would post to it instead of starting a brand new thread).

[atlcple2]

We have traveled several times by air to different cities since 9/11 and have taken a lighter and never had a problem with it at all. Yes, they x-rayed our bags that we carried on and sent us right along.

[Pam in CA]

I have no idea if this is true or not...

 

but I was talking to one of my customers/clients who told me that his wife has been allowed (recently) to bring her knitting needles on board so she can knit during the flights!

 

Knitting needles!! But no lighters?? Has anyone heard of or seen anyone being allowed knitting needles on the plane??

Yes, this is true. My sister does it all the time, both wooden and metal knitting needles. Even just after 9/11. Go figure.

[Toto2Kansas]

The rules about carrying a lighter with you on a plane changed mid April of this year. They will be confiscated it you attempt to take one onboard. They have been banned from checked luggage for some time now.

[Baxter]

I have flown quite a bit since 9/11 and have never had a problem with nail clippers, tweezers or scissors. I bought cheap ones to take with me in case they were snatched up by security, but they're still in my carry-on bag.

[Druke I]

kyros

 

Disposable lighters are considered more hazardous than the standard type (Ronson or Zippo).

 

Disposable lighters have the fluid under pressure, while the old fashioned type has the fluid in cotton or similar suspension. Pressure vessels are usually considered more dangerous than non-pressure containers, particularly at altitude.

[HighLordDave]

It has always puzzled why the FAA and the airlines are now worried about a plane being hijacked by people with knives or small sharp instruments. The chances of that are virtually zero. Not because people won't try, but because they won't succeed.

 

On 10 September 2001, if you were on a plane that was hijacked, chances are pretty good that you were going to live. The people that hijacked that plane probably wanted one of the following three things: 1) $10 million in cash and free passage to a country without an extradition treaty with the United States, 2) the release of political prisoners from the Brotherhood/Fellowship/Unifed Front/Pick-Your-Extremist-Movement-of-Choice or 3) to be diverted to Cuba or some other such country.

 

With the World Trade Center/Pentagon attacks, all that changed. Now, I guarantee that whenever someone tries to hijack a plane, they're going to be facing a passenger revolt. After all, if you're going to die anyway, you may as well take the bad guys with you. Plus, it doesn't matter if you have knives or guns, no one can fight off a plane full of angry people who realise they're going not going to live.

 

I think the bad guys know this and won't try to hijack a passenger plane again, because that's a trick that only works once, but I do worry about someone hijacking a UPS or Fed Ex plane (which may have a crew of only three or four on board) and pulling the same stunt.

 

I'm not saying that people should be allowed to take machetes or bowie knives on planes, but it seems to me that taking fingernail clippers and sewing awls is a little extreme. I also don't understand why lighters and matches are any great danger.

 

The alleged "shoe bomber" tried to detonate an explosive device, but it seems to me that they should concentrate on detecting the explosives rather than worry about smokers with a Bic.

 

Personally, I'm more worried about someone trying to blow up a plane with a bomb in the luggage compartment (Pan Am 103, for example). It seems to me that with a finite number of dollars to spend on security, it would be better to invest in detecting explosives with devices and methods we don't see than to hire all sorts of airport screeners that we do see but won't necessarily make us safer.

[spongerob]

Ban the lighters, and let me keep my shoes on when going through security.