norovirus--what would you do

[SwissMyst]

TO DISINFECT

 

Wipe surface to be disinfected; use enough wipes for treated surface to remain visibly wet for 4 minutes. Let surface dry. For highly soiled surfaces, clean excess dirt first.

 

Ricki[/size][/font]

 

Term of art: "disinfect" is not the same as sterilize, so appreciate the limitations posted here. Glad this included the contact time required and the amounts necessary to "disinfect". Sobering to think a quick wipedown with a dubious contact product does anything besides provide false assurances and exposure to even tougher bugs left behind.

 

Still best to put the emphasis on not sticking fingers into mouth, hands and eyes or swallowing anything touched with contaminated hands. Use your knife, fork and spoons.

[SwissMyst]

Informal, passenger-instituted sanitation methods may well increase the numbers and types of resistant bugs left behind. Leave it to the experts. Or just stick to mechanical soap and water physical removal.

[Robin7]

Luckily, we did not get sick but we lost one full day of our cruise and the rest was limited in what we could do. No pools were open, no books in library, no self service. Very long lines for food and staff was stretched to the limit.

 

Not the best cruise we have ever been on, but we made the best of it. That was my experience with noro.:eek:

 

We've had Code Red twice. Once in Alaska for two days on the Zaandam. Then for 12 of 14 days on the Volendam New Zealand/Australia. None of the six of us got sick, but people we were friendly with did.

 

The two-day Code Red did not bother us at all because we did not use the pools in Alaska. Our tablemates were first time cruisers and were very confused about the lack of salt and pepper shakers the first night. They were relieved when we explained that's not how it usually is!

 

In NZ/Aus. it was a little harder. It was pre-eBook, so we NEEDED the library! Thankfully, we were so busy on excursions that between the six of us, we had enough books to trade due to lack of time to read! And it was not a pool cruise either. It was NZ/Australia's spring and was still a little chilly. We did feel TERRIBLE for the crew though. They had lots of different staff working in the Lido. It did slow up the lines quite a bit, but we just added on time. We ate in the Lido A LOT that cruise because we were so busy with excursions. (That is not our usual thing. We prefer the MDR for all meals when it's open.)

 

Robin

[ariawoman]

My DH had it at home about 5 days after a hospital stay. It took him about 7 gays to get rid of it. No one else in the house got it, but I was very careful about sanitizing our home. I'd really hate to get it on a trip as bad as he had it. I'm a religious hand washer and keep them away from my face.

 

I'm sorry, I know it was a typo, but it cracked me up when you posted that it took 7 gays to get rid of noro. If that's the case, I want to sail with 70 gays each time just to be safe :-)

[innlady1]

We were booked on the Zuiderdam when we found out before we flew to Florida that the ship was returning to the US infected with Noro. Found out through the CC site-not from HAL. We decided to go anyway.

 

The first thing I did was contact my travel insurance company. They told us that if we became sick, to make sure we received care from the ships doctor and to get it documented. If we were quarantined to our room we would be reimbursed for the cost of those days.

 

We had friends visiting us at the hotel we stayed at so they brought us to the ship early to find out what the story was. At the pier we weregiven a notice about the contamination and that the CDC required a full cleaning. We were also given the option of canceling with a full refund. We were told boarding would start at 5 pm instead of 11 am and that they had rented the convention center to house all the people that were arriving. HAL ran buses back and forth and also gave passengers tickets for the water taxi in case they wanted to go shopping. Food was provided at the convention center as well as movies and some other entertainment.

 

We decided to return to the hotel and called our travel insurance co. They told us that because of the long delay, we could stay there and have dinner where we wanted, but to keep the receipts to be reimbursed.

At 7 pm we returned to the convention center hoping boarding would begin soon. It started around 9 pm and we sailed at midnight.

The cruise was in code red for the first 3 days out of it for 1 and then back in again for 3.

Even with all the sickness, some people refused to sanitize their hands and gave the crew a very hard time about it. I overheard more than one passenger saying they did not feel well but they paid for the cruise and were going to get everything they paid for.

 

I took cans of disenfectant and sprayed every inch of the cabin even though it was midnight. Phones, door handles, remotes, bathroom, etc.

Luckily, we did not get sick but we lost one full day of our cruise and the rest was limited in what we could do. No pools were open, no books in library, no self service. Very long lines for food and staff was stretched to the limit.

 

Not the best cruise we have ever been on, but we made the best of it. That was my experience with noro.:eek:

 

What a horrible experience, knitlady. I am so sorry that your much anticipated cruise turned out this way.

[NoWhiners]

ML - we are a little walking pharmacy. We take immodium and a lot of things that can make life simple if there is an issue. It's especially important in Europe. (and we like to go there a lot) dh laughs at me every time. Every time they have been put to use - but for our fellow passengers - one fell in the Venice Canal and was 'banged' by the water taxi' and our 'patches' helped him along with our medications. another did get quite sick and we gave them our immodium. They are all off the shelf meds so nothing wrong. I thank God every time that we didn't get it but I always packed prepared for whatever and happy to share

 

me too! Hubby was totally mad that I bough a box of different sized bandaids--you would have thought it was going to kill him. It was only $1 for a box (and I bought 2)! We have only used tylenol thank heavens but nice to know we had things if needed.

 

Hopefully lightening doesn't strike a third time, otherwise I will be paranoid to post on a roll call ;)

 

BTW dh was very happy that the Giants won too:)

 

If DH is a Giants fan, then all is forgiven and I will risk lighning striking again:)!!

 

ML

[ricki]

Term of art: "disinfect" is not the same as sterilize, so appreciate the limitations posted here. Glad this included the contact time required and the amounts necessary to "disinfect". Sobering to think a quick wipedown with a dubious contact product does anything besides provide false assurances and exposure to even tougher bugs left behind.

 

Still best to put the emphasis on not sticking fingers into mouth, hands and eyes or swallowing anything touched with contaminated hands. Use your knife, fork and spoons.

I understand the difference between disinfect and sterilize. Do you have to challenge everything I post?

 

It seems like it is vital to you to have the last word--PLEASE--- that's very rude and disrespectful.

 

Ricki

[NoWhiners]

This ended up as an interesting topic for me (even as OP)!!

 

Never realized so many CC'ers had personal experience with noro, given that it doesn't happen all that often.

 

great insights provided by all--thanks!

 

ML

[startwin]

ML - we are a little walking pharmacy. We take immodium and a lot of things that can make life simple if there is an issue. <snip>

 

Me too, we prepare for every eventuality, just in case. Immodium, laxatives (well, you never know) antihistamines (for allergy reactions), bandaids, antibiotic ointments, tylenol, cold meds.... heck I take it all. And always, always, the disinfectant wipes - but I worry more about the plane journey than on-board ship. I wipe everything down on the plane, and also in our cabin (phone, door handles etc,) when we first get there. I think I have a good immune system, but my DH has caught some pretty nasty bugs on long plane journeys, some that have wiped him out for a couple of days. So it never hurts to pack those extra items. Oh, and we always carry the little bottles of antiseptic handwash.

[Shiraz]

I talked to Clorox company this morning. They did say that their Disinfecting Wipes do not kill noro. The Clorox bleach product cleansing solution recipe is 3/4 c. bleach to 1 gallon water (ventilation might be a good idea, sounds smelly; keep away from ammonia products). It needs to sit on the surface for 5 mins. If food prep surface or something going in your mouth, it needs to be rinsed or wiped with plain water after that 4 mins.

 

It is hard to know what one would do when faced with this circumstance. You look forward to the cruise so much and want to partake in all there is offered, but if you feel horrible I guess you'd limit yourself. I can see justification in thinking you might not be the one responsible for spreading the illness if you leave your cabin -- considering there are so many potential ways to catch it: local restaurants, airplane, airport security, all public surfaces and given that the alcohol sanitizer doesn't kill the virus. Makes me wonder if using a paper towel to dry off generously alcohol-ed hands would help at least remove it from your hand somewhat better than plain evaporation.

 

Oh well, seems like having your immunity strong is the best defense.

 

Happy cruising all!

[kazu]

If DH is a Giants fan, then all is forgiven and I will risk lighning striking again:)!!

 

ML

 

actually he was :)

[kazu]

Here's a comment from someone on the Princess right now. Looks like it still has noro:eek:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1567711

[SwissMyst]

I talked to Clorox company this morning. They did say that their Disinfecting Wipes do not kill noro. The Clorox bleach product cleansing solution recipe is 3/4 c. bleach to 1 gallon water (ventilation might be a good idea, sounds smelly; keep away from ammonia products). It needs to sit on the surface for 5 mins. If food prep surface or something going in your mouth, it needs to be rinsed or wiped with plain water after that 4 mins.

 

It is hard to know what one would do when faced with this circumstance. You look forward to the cruise so much and want to partake in all there is offered, but if you feel horrible I guess you'd limit yourself. I can see justification in thinking you might not be the one responsible for spreading the illness if you leave your cabin -- considering there are so many potential ways to catch it: local restaurants, airplane, airport security, all public surfaces and given that the alcohol sanitizer doesn't kill the virus. Makes me wonder if using a paper towel to dry off generously alcohol-ed hands would help at least remove it from your hand somewhat better than plain evaporation.

 

Oh well, seems like having your immunity strong is the best defense.

 

Happy cruising all!

 

 

If touching face, nose, eyes and mouth remain unconscious habits, there is little hope anyone is doing all they can for disease prevention. It is not just the bugs. It is what you do to yourself after you pick up the bug. Be aware of how many times you might unconsciously self-innoculate yourself during the day.

[BruceMuzz]

Just wondering if you think that using chlorox wipes in our cabins would actually help? do you think the room stewards use stronger cleaners when they service the rooms? I know you are very knowledgeable about this, so wanted to ask!

 

thanks

ML

 

Clorox wipes don't accomplish very much - except taking dust off the hard surfaces and killing a bit of bacteria - but not viruses.

 

The cruise lines use the very best tools available to battle this ongoing problem.

 

We cannot solve the problem of marketing cruises to people raised by wolves.

We cannot successfully teach adults how to properly wash their hands and stay clean.

We cannot even seem to stop people from eating in public bathrooms, which is getting more and more popular these days.

 

We can only employ the best tools to avoid the worst scenarios.

 

Highly concentrated chlorine bleach would work best, but it would also poison and kill our passengers, pollute the environment, and destroy the interiors of our ships.

 

Hand sanitizers - under the best of ideal conditions - have been proven to be mildly effective. But most everyone uses them improperly, creating a false sense of cleanliness that actually leads to an increase in the number of sick passengers.

 

The only chemical that is generally effective without killing people or destroying the environment or the ship is Activated Hydrogen Peroxide - a non-chlorine bleach.

This product is produced in Canada under 2 brand names; Virkon and Virox.

 

Every major cruise line on earth uses one or both of these products. They work.

[kazu]

Clorox wipes don't accomplish very much - except taking dust off the hard surfaces and killing a bit of bacteria - but not viruses.

 

The cruise lines use the very best tools available to battle this ongoing problem.

 

We cannot solve the problem of marketing cruises to people raised by wolves.

We cannot successfully teach adults how to properly wash their hands and stay clean.

We cannot even seem to stop people from eating in public bathrooms, which is getting more and more popular these days.

 

We can only employ the best tools to avoid the worst scenarios.

 

Highly concentrated chlorine bleach would work best, but it would also poison and kill our passengers, pollute the environment, and destroy the interiors of our ships.

 

Hand sanitizers - under the best of ideal conditions - have been proven to be mildly effective. But most everyone uses them improperly, creating a false sense of cleanliness that actually leads to an increase in the number of sick passengers.

 

The only chemical that is generally effective without killing people or destroying the environment or the ship is Activated Hydrogen Peroxide - a non-chlorine bleach.

This product is produced in Canada under 2 brand names; Virkon and Virox.

 

Every major cruise line on earth uses one or both of these products. They work.

 

Thanks Bruce:D

[innlady1]

Interesting post, BruceMuzz. The Virox wipes were available in the Explorations Cafe on our recent Maasdam cruise...by the computers.

Wonder why they don't use those everywhere on the ship?

[sail7seas]

Interesting post, BruceMuzz. The Virox wipes were available in the Explorations Cafe on our recent Maasdam cruise...by the computers.

 

Wonder why they don't use those everywhere on the ship?

 

 

Very good question, Sheila.

Why don't they hand out those wipes when we enter the dining room if they have the effective agents rather than providing the single squirt of the ineffective product?

 

If we are to be using much more in order to get good results, why aren't they squirting more into each hand....... though I'd rather seem them providing a product that is stated to work better.

[NoWhiners]

Clorox wipes don't accomplish very much - except taking dust off the hard surfaces and killing a bit of bacteria - but not viruses.

 

The cruise lines use the very best tools available to battle this ongoing problem.

 

We cannot solve the problem of marketing cruises to people raised by wolves.

Sad but true

We cannot successfully teach adults how to properly wash their hands and stay clean. ditto but it seems obvious...

We cannot even seem to stop people from eating in public bathrooms, which is getting more and more popular these days. OMG-ick!! Why do people do this? And talk on their cell phones while 'going'? No kidding, every time I am in a public bathroom, the person in the stall next to me is talking on a phone. Truly disgusting...

 

We can only employ the best tools to avoid the worst scenarios.

 

Highly concentrated chlorine bleach would work best, but it would also poison and kill our passengers, pollute the environment, and destroy the interiors of our ships.

 

Hand sanitizers - under the best of ideal conditions - have been proven to be mildly effective. But most everyone uses them improperly, creating a false sense of cleanliness that actually leads to an increase in the number of sick passengers.

 

The only chemical that is generally effective without killing people or destroying the environment or the ship is Activated Hydrogen Peroxide - a non-chlorine bleach.

This product is produced in Canada under 2 brand names; Virkon and Virox.

 

Every major cruise line on earth uses one or both of these products. They work.

good to know

[BruceMuzz]

Very good question, Sheila.

Why don't they hand out those wipes when we enter the dining room if they have the effective agents rather than providing the single squirt of the ineffective product?

 

If we are to be using much more in order to get good results, why aren't they squirting more into each hand....... though I'd rather seem them providing a product that is stated to work better.

 

Virox wipes are quite effective at cleaning hard surfaces, like counters, desks, and keyboards.

User error is one reason they do not work so well with hands. Most adults do not know how to properly sanitize their hands without missing crucial spots. Wiping a cloth over them is less effective that immersing and scrubbing them in soapy water, or drowning them in semi-effective hand sanitizer.

 

Two more issues:

1. Activated Hydrogen Peroxide is not as damaging to skin as concentrated chlorine bleach, but it is not a good thing to be rubbing on your body. Ship's crew are encouraged to wear plastic gloves whenever handling Virox or Virox wipes.

 

2. Virox wipes are frightfully expensive.

[sail7seas]

Thanks, BruceMuzz.

 

The bad PR and a ship full of virus is also pricey. :eek:

But I get the point.

 

I appreciate this conversation and hopefully many of us have learned from it.

 

I actually am finding it stunning we've been on over 85 cruises and DH has never had Noro like virus (and I hate to jinx him) and I have had it once. Guess I should consider us very lucky or very careful.......or maybe both? :confused: ;)

 

It's so highly contagious it's good Officers/crew/staff can, for the most part, avoid getting it. Now and then a 'spore or two' might sneak through no matter how careful.

 

 

[NoWhiners]

sail

 

Now you've done it--jinxed both of you!!;)

 

ML

[sail7seas]

sail

 

Now you've done it--jinxed both of you!!;)

 

ML

 

 

Thanks for your good wishes. :eek: :D

[Watson's aunt]

I think the cruise line can clean these ships until they are blue in their face but if one crew member is sick and made to work the viruis will sprea.

 

one of my last air plane flight i aways sjit up front in cheap seats. It was event one of the pilots was sick. I was flying cross country I prayed I would not have to use the rest room, but I did I made sure I had my wipes with me anything I touch it was with a wipe. I did not catch anyrhing .. I do have a very low resitant due to health issues. I am lucky I don't seem to catch stuff but when I do I am in bed for days

[jimmysgrl]

My DF got sick the last night of our first cruise, but I believe it was food poisoning not Noro. He didn't have the nausea or vomiting but had horrible breath that he didn't realize until our drive home. He burped then said to me "Did you fart?" I said hell no that's your breath!! He looked like he was going to cry and said "If that's my breath, I'm going to die!" Mean I know but I couldn't stop laughing!! :D I still think it is funny how he said that after 3 years..lol Needless to say he doesn't :rolleyes: