Ensenada Bus to San Diego - Your Experiences

[3418ahl]

Solstice schedule summer 2013. Also NCL has I think the Pearl? is doing Alaska round trip Seattle this year.

 

First of all READ THE POSTS. There is a difference between the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act and you are getting them confused.

 

Secondly, read the reply from Cindy. The Pearl is a round-trip starting and ending in the same city. Different rules apply.

[momofmeg]

That's not answering my question, you said one ways work from Seattle to Alaska, I said show me. The one ways run out of Vancouver.

 

 

 

I am referring to Celebrity Solstice from Seattle to Ensenada, Sept. 13, 2013. Not the Millie from Vancouver to San Diego.There is a stop in San Diego the day before Ensenada on the Solstice-why would I not be able to disembark there since there are ports in Victoria and Namino British Columbia, Canada which are outside the US?

 

This Jones act is TOO complicated.

[momofmeg]

First of all READ THE POSTS. There is a difference between the Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act and you are getting them confused.

 

Secondly, read the reply from Cindy. The Pearl is a round-trip starting and ending in the same city. Different rules apply.

 

Okay then why can you go from Boston to Tampa on RCI jewel of the Seas?

[momofmeg]

That sailing goes to both Curacao and Aruba, both considered foreign distant ports

 

Duh-YES BINGO!!! But it is TWO US cities-so why is not Seattle to US cities and why is Victoria can qualify as a "distant port" for round trip Seattle to Alaska but NOT Seattle To San Diego??????????

 

Two different laws, I get that NOW (which you did not explain-some one else was nice enough to say this)-but yet it still does not make sense-bottom line -it seems I will have to disembark in Ensenada if I book that Solstice cruise. I think I prefer to embark in Vancouver and just book the Millie.

 

I think some of these laws need to be repealed. They do not even make sense.

[3418ahl]

Why would the Solstice use Victoria as a foreign port on the Seattle to Ensenada cruise if Victoria is ABOVE Seattle and not even on the way down??

[Cruise Junky]

Duh-YES BINGO!!! But it is TWO US cities-so why is not Seattle to US cities and why is Victoria can qualify as a "distant port" for round trip Seattle to Alaska but NOT Seattle To San Diego??????????

 

Two different laws, I get that NOW (which you did not explain-some one else was nice enough to say this)-but yet it still does not make sense-bottom line -it seems I will have to disembark in Ensenada if I book that Solstice cruise. I think I prefer to embark in Vancouver and just book the Millie.

 

I think some of these laws need to be repealed. They do not even make sense.

 

You are not reading what has been posted. Victoria isn't a foreign distant port on any run. There are two rules here...on return trips, ie Seattle to Seattle for Alaska, ships have to visit a foreign port, ie...Victoria. On one way cruises, ie what you'd like to do is Seattle to San Diego...the ship has to visit a foreign...DISTANT port, there aren't any in North America, so unless you want Solstice tracking down to South America before pulling into San Diego, ain't going to happen. You cannot start and end in two different US ports unless the ships hits a foreign distant port.

[momofmeg]

You are not reading what has been posted. Victoria isn't a foreign distant port on any run. There are two rules here...on return trips, ie Seattle to Seattle for Alaska, ships have to visit a foreign port, ie...Victoria. On one way cruises, ie what you'd like to do is Seattle to San Diego...the ship has to visit a foreign...DISTANT port, there aren't any in North America, so unless you want Solstice tracking down to South America before pulling into San Diego, ain't going to happen. You cannot start and end in two different US ports unless the ships hits a foreign distant port.

 

As I posted you I got that finally. Victoria can't be a distant foreign port for the one law, but yet it is okay for round trip via the Jones Act. I suppose if JOS had gone to Bermuda and Nassau instead of Aruba and the other non US southern Caribbean ports, that would not have qualified either.

 

I still say that is a lot of red tape and some laws need to be repealed. If I book Celebrity for the Pacific coast it would be the Millie I guess. I was not going to make a decision until after our cruise on the Solstice the summer to see if I liked the Solstice much better than I did the Connie. We are considering Princess also.

[momofmeg]

Why would the Solstice use Victoria as a foreign port on the Seattle to Ensenada cruise if Victoria is ABOVE Seattle and not even on the way down??

 

Well, I now know it is not considered a DISTANT foreign port. However, the Sept. 12, 2013 Solstice cruise does go north to Victoria and Namiino before it goes to Astoria and San Francisco. So you will have to ask Celebrity why they choose to go north before they go south.

 

BTW-this thread was on page 4 before I posted. Originally, I thought perhaps the OP was considering this cruise also-when I posted- then when one person said I would do better to do the Millie if I did not want to go to Ensenada,I was confused. I had no idea it had already been discussed. The thread was about taking the bus from Ensenada to San Diego (which I am glad to know there is one-I thought I would have to take a flight if I booked the cruise) I had no idea 2 different laws had been discussed. After all that is not the title of the thread-so why would I know that?

[Cindy]

Well, I now know it is not considered a DISTANT foreign port. However, the Sept. 12, 2013 Solstice cruise does go north to Victoria and Namiino before it goes to Astoria and San Francisco. So you will have to ask Celebrity why they choose to go north before they go south.

 

 

I agree with what you said in another post...the laws are complicated, and in the case of cruise ships they can make things difficult. There are very, very few passenger ships that were built in the US, are flagged in the US, and have a predominately US crew. I was originally booked on the Solstice for September 13, 2013. When I realized that I had an option that would not require me to disembark in Ensenada I quickly changed ships. Cruise lines are very diligent about ensuring the rules are followed, and will often cancel a booking if it breaks the law.

 

I imagine Celebrity goes north to include two interesting ports on the cruise! Certainly, if the Solstice class could fit under the Lion's Gate Bridge the cruise would depart from Vancouver and the PVSA rules wouldn't be part of the equation.

 

By the way...PVSA is the law that affects all passenger vessels. The Jones Act is for cargo ships. The restrictions are essentially the same.

[EddiesToys]

Okay then why can you go from Boston to Tampa on RCI jewel of the Seas?

Could it be that Aruba is "distant" from Boston? Just guessing....("A distance of 2,054 miles [3,306 kilometers; 1,785 nautical miles] separates Boston, Massachusetts from Aruba's capital at Oranjestad.") Hey "Mom'o give Meg a hug for us!

[robtulipe]

Well, I now know it is not considered a DISTANT foreign port. However, the Sept. 12, 2013 Solstice cruise does go north to Victoria and Namiino before it goes to Astoria and San Francisco. So you will have to ask Celebrity why they choose to go north before they go south.

 

It could be because Seattle is not a port on the Pacific Ocean but is on Puget Sound. The only way out of that sound into the Pacific is for a large ship is to go north into the Juan de Fuca Strait between Vancouver Island and Washington's Kitsap Peninsula which separates Puget sound from the Pacific. This route passes right by Victoria.

 

[robtulipe]

Could it be that Aruba is "distant" from Boston? Just guessing....("A distance of 2,054 miles [3,306 kilometers; 1,785 nautical miles] separates Boston, Massachusetts from Aruba's capital at Oranjestad.") Hey "Mom'o give Meg a hug for us!

Both Aruba and Curacao are on the South American continental shelf thus geographically are part of that continent which is the closes land mass to the lower 48 US states that meets the PVSA distant foreign port requirement for one way cruise between two different US ports. Other SA islands like Bonaire, Margarita and Trinadad/Tobago also qualify as PVSA distant ports.

[momofmeg]

It could be because Seattle is not a port on the Pacific Ocean but is on Puget Sound. The only way out of that sound into the Pacific is for a large ship is to go north into the Juan de Fuca Strait between Vancouver Island and Washington's Kitsap Peninsula which separates Puget sound from the Pacific. This route passes right by Victoria.

 

 

Well perhaps-but the law is still a bit of something-especially when you realize that Ensenada is a little under 73 miles from San Diego-but that qualifies as a "distant foreign port."

 

I am certainly not an attorney or even bright enough to understand complicated laws- all this mumble jumble is "Greek" to me. Bottom line I guess is Victoria and Namino are not distant foreign ports from the US but Ensenada is. All I need to understand is that I guess- and forget the "why?" part.

 

Reminds me of when I was a kid and my folks would tell me to do something and I would ask "why;" and I would be told "Because I said so." Or in other words, "we are your parents, you do as we say, and you are not to question us."

 

I guess the same is true here-laws have been made and it is not for a little peon like me to question why.

[3418ahl]

You are really confused...Ensenada does NOT qualify as a distant foreign port. That is why the cruise has to END in Ensenada and cannot go on to San Diego!

[Gonzo70]

Well perhaps-but the law is still a bit of something-especially when you realize that Ensenada is a little under 73 miles from San Diego-but that qualifies as a "distant foreign port."

 

I am certainly not an attorney or even bright enough to understand complicated laws- all this mumble jumble is "Greek" to me. Bottom line I guess is Victoria and Namino are not distant foreign ports from the US but Ensenada is. All I need to understand is that I guess- and forget the "why?" part.

 

Reminds me of when I was a kid and my folks would tell me to do something and I would ask "why;" and I would be told "Because I said so." Or in other words, "we are your parents, you do as we say, and you are not to question us."

 

I guess the same is true here-laws have been made and it is not for a little peon like me to question why.

 

Why are you having such a hard time understanding the Passenger Vesel Services Act (PVSA)? It really is not that complicated. No port in North America or Central America is considered distant - so no ports in Canada and no ports in Mexico are distant. Ensenada is not a distant foreign port - it is a near foreign port.

 

The PVSA dictates that a cruise that starts in one U.S. port and ends in that same U.S. port (i.e. closed loop) must stop at at least one foreign port (can be any foreign port, near or distant).

 

The PVSA dictates that a cruise that starts at one U.S. port (i.e. Miami, FL for example) and ends at a different U.S. port (i.e. San Diego, CA for example) must stop at at least one DISTANT foreign port - so it must call somewhere in South America (i.e. Colombia) or one of the Caribbean ports deemed distant (most Caribbean ports are not deemed distant, but a few such as Aruba and Curaco are).

 

The Jones Act is a similar type of law, but has nothing to do with cruise ships; the Jones Act governs the transportation of cargo (i.e. container ships) and the PVSA the transportation of people (i.e. ferries and cruise ships).

[BEAV]

Perhaps this will help a little.....

 

1. One-Way cruises from one U.S. port to a different U.S. port: Must visit a distant foreign port. Distant foreign ports are:

 

Aruba

Bonaire

Curacao

Cartegena, Columbia.

 

This is why FL to CA one-way Panama Canal cruises always schedule a stop at one of the four distant foreign ports listed above. Also why cruises out of Boston or New York can legally sail one-way to Miami (FLL, etc), by calling ng at any one of these ports.

 

And since none of the above distant foreign ports are anywhere near Canada or Mexico, this is why you never see one-way sailings between Anchorage/Whittier/Seward and Seattle or between Seattle and LA/San Diego.

 

2. Round trip cruises originating/terminating at the same U.S. port: Call at any foreign (non-U.S.) port.

[iSailor]

Perhaps this will help a little.....

 

1. One-Way cruises from one U.S. port to a different U.S. port: Must visit a distant foreign port. Distant foreign ports are:

 

Aruba

Bonaire

Curacao

Cartegena, Columbia.

 

This is why FL to CA one-way Panama Canal cruises always schedule a stop at one of the four distant foreign ports listed above. Also why cruises out of Boston or New York can legally sail one-way to Miami (FLL, etc), by calling ng at any one of these ports.

 

And since none of the above distant foreign ports are anywhere near Canada or Mexico, this is why you never see one-way sailings between Anchorage/Whittier/Seward and Seattle or between Seattle and LA/San Diego.

 

2. Round trip cruises originating/terminating at the same U.S. port: Call at any foreign (non-U.S.) port.

 

Thank you for making it so clear to us.

[gentlemancruiser]

I believe it depends upon where the cruise originates. Because the cruise mentioned above is originates Seattle it must stop in Ensenada. There is no reason why after stopping in Ensenada the ship cannot return to San Diego. I believe that cost is probabaly a factor in the decision.

 

Last year we took the wine cruise on the Millie and we embarked in Vancouver and disembarked in San Diego. We made two stops in Canada (Naniamo & Victoria) before stopping at Seattle, San Francisco, Monterrey, and Catalina Island.

[momofmeg]

I believe it depends upon where the cruise originates. Because the cruise mentioned above is originates Seattle it must stop in Ensenada. There is no reason why after stopping in Ensenada the ship cannot return to San Diego. I believe that cost is probabaly a factor in the decision.

 

Last year we took the wine cruise on the Millie and we embarked in Vancouver and disembarked in San Diego. We made two stops in Canada (Naniamo & Victoria) before stopping at Seattle, San Francisco, Monterrey, and Catalina Island.

 

Then why not skip Namino or Victoria instead of going to both of those ports? Or else wait and do San Diego last-as it is the last port before Ensenada. Perhaps Scheduling difficulties? Or else something to do with that law makes it impossible. It can't be cost because it goes to San Diego.

[Cruise Junky]

I believe it depends upon where the cruise originates. Because the cruise mentioned above is originates Seattle it must stop in Ensenada. There is no reason why after stopping in Ensenada the ship cannot return to San Diego. I believe that cost is probabaly a factor in the decision.

 

Last year we took the wine cruise on the Millie and we embarked in Vancouver and disembarked in San Diego. We made two stops in Canada (Naniamo & Victoria) before stopping at Seattle, San Francisco, Monterrey, and Catalina Island.

 

You are incorrect....the reason the ship isn't going to San Diego isn't cost, it's breaking the PVSA if it disembarks there as it would be a Seattle to San Diego cruise with no foreign distant port. Your Millie cruise started in Canada, no PVSA rules come into play.

[3418ahl]

I believe it depends upon where the cruise originates. Because the cruise mentioned above is originates Seattle it must stop in Ensenada. There is no reason why after stopping in Ensenada the ship cannot return to San Diego. I believe that cost is probabaly a factor in the decision.

 

Last year we took the wine cruise on the Millie and we embarked in Vancouver and disembarked in San Diego. We made two stops in Canada (Naniamo & Victoria) before stopping at Seattle, San Francisco, Monterrey, and Catalina Island.

 

As previously stated, the PVSA only applies to cruises leaving from US

and ending in US.

[fleckle]

I believe it depends upon where the cruise originates. Because the cruise mentioned above is originates Seattle it must stop in Ensenada. There is no reason why after stopping in Ensenada the ship cannot return to San Diego.

The ship can return to San Diego. It is the passengers who cannot.

 

The PVSA prohibits the ship from transporting passengers between 2 US ports without visiting a distant foreign port (which Ensenada is not, as has been pointed out numerous times).

[momofmeg]

You are really confused...Ensenada does NOT qualify as a distant foreign port. That is why the cruise has to END in Ensenada and cannot go on to San Diego!

 

Confused-no I understand it can't be done per the law. The only thing I have tried to say is between the 2 laws that it is complicated and a lot of red tape, and those two laws make it confusing. Like many others, I do not understand is the reasoning behind these laws.

 

IF I book this cruise I will be taking the bus from Ensenada to San Diego. After all I don't have a choice do I? I comprehend that, not confused a bit about that.

[momofmeg]

Perhaps this will help a little.....

 

1. One-Way cruises from one U.S. port to a different U.S. port: Must visit a distant foreign port. Distant foreign ports are:

 

Aruba

Bonaire

Curacao

Cartegena, Columbia.

 

This is why FL to CA one-way Panama Canal cruises always schedule a stop at one of the four distant foreign ports listed above. Also why cruises out of Boston or New York can legally sail one-way to Miami (FLL, etc), by calling ng at any one of these ports.

 

And since none of the above distant foreign ports are anywhere near Canada or Mexico, this is why you never see one-way sailings between Anchorage/Whittier/Seward and Seattle or between Seattle and LA/San Diego.

 

2. Round trip cruises originating/terminating at the same U.S. port: Call at any foreign (non-U.S.) port.

 

So as I mentioned earlier a Boston to Tampa could not go Bermuda and Nassau and San Juan between. I get that.

 

What is is I found confusing is a cruise can't go Seattle to San Diego with Canada ports in between, it has to end with Ensenada-but I get it now-it could not go to Ensenada and end in San Diego either.

 

Oh well-you know this all just a moot point anyway for me now . Hubby says he wants a cruise that ends in Los Angeles. He is planning on renting a car and us driving to Arizona and spending a few days post cruise.

[Gonzo70]

Like many others, I do not understand is the reasoning behind these laws.

 

 

Cabotage laws are primarily to protect jobs. Could you imagine how badly the airlines would be doing in the US if foreign carriers were permitted to fly people from one U.S. city to another? Foreign companies do not have the same labor laws as the U.S. and it would put U.S. companies at an unfair advantage if they had to compete within the U.S. with other companies who have much lower labor costs. While there is only one major cruise ship that is U.S. flagged (NCL's Pride of America) there are still lots of river cruise ships, lake cruise ships, Alaskan cruise ships etc. that are U.S. flagged and there are lots of ferries that are U.S. flagged. All of these would be threatened if the PVSA was repealed.

 

There are other issues at play as well, but this is the largest factor and easiest to explain. The cruise lines do not want the PVSA repealed as then they may be subject to different (more unfavorable) restrictions that the PVSA protects them from currently. Fortunately not too many itineraries are dramatically impacted by the PVSA, so the best solution is to just have to deal with the inconvenience when they do arise (i.e. the Ensenada issue).