The other side of the Freedom/tobacco story

[wreckem2013]

I think you speak with knowledge and experience on these matters and I am respectful of your opinion.

 

Do you think if the bag of smoking material was large enough they might have held them for further lab testing?

 

Many people speak of a dry run. Do you really think that someone with a federal firearms dealer license would risk losing that license over the amount of marijuana that would fit in a shaving can? How much dope can you cram into that can? And if it is a supposed dry run, does anyone really think the marijuana from the caribbean is that much better and worth losing a federal firearms license over?

 

I know people, even very smart ones, do incredibly dumb acts because they think they can get away with it. I personally beleive the husband didn't want to explain his perfectly legal tobacco to some over zealous security who may not know what it is. I once got yelled at for smoking a hookah with some friends. We were deployed to Saudi Arabia and bought the pipe (water bong) and tobacco right on base, all completely legal, but it certainly does not look legal. We were not allowed to use the hookah anymore.

 

A hookah pipe and water bong are two different things. A water bong cannot smoke shisha. A hookah pipe can smoke shisha and can also be modified by attachment to smoke pot. They require different types of bowls to smoke because pot is dry and is is burnt by fire, shisha is wet and is smoldered by coals.

 

You aren't going to be allowed to take a hookah pipe on a ship(or inside most hotels for that matter) just because they are a fire hazard.

[wreckem2013]

welll, legally it sounds like they wont get a refund/compensation! they should have known better--they just had to wait until they got to Jamaica and imbibe during the day as they pleased- yah, 'mon -maybe next time if they find the urge to bring their favorite herb they should conceal it in teabags and hope it can pass for tea--- but if RCI finds wine and other forms of alcohol (in standard or concealed bottles), then what makes them think they can get away with it?--

 

maybe they should have not concealed it -- they just put it on their carry on bag--- maybe they should have brought apple or peach flavor or something else which has a different appearance, instead of halo hookah summer swing-- RCI may have overreacted b/c it was just tobacco, but it was their turf in a 4000 passenger cruise - all passengers signed the contract, otherwise they dont board!

 

and if RCI had reason to think this couple was potentially high risk (for prohibited substances), then RCI is likely to prevail....

 

They shouldn't have tried to bring a hookah on board.

[BND]

I think you speak with knowledge and experience on these matters and I am respectful of your opinion.

 

Do you think if the bag of smoking material was large enough they might have held them for further lab testing?

 

Many people speak of a dry run. Do you really think that someone with a federal firearms dealer license would risk losing that license over the amount of marijuana that would fit in a shaving can? How much dope can you cram into that can? And if it is a supposed dry run, does anyone really think the marijuana from the caribbean is that much better and worth losing a federal firearms license over?

 

I know people, even very smart ones, do incredibly dumb acts because they think they can get away with it. I personally beleive the husband didn't want to explain his perfectly legal tobacco to some over zealous security who may not know what it is. I once got yelled at for smoking a hookah with some friends. We were deployed to Saudi Arabia and bought the pipe (water bong) and tobacco right on base, all completely legal, but it certainly does not look legal. We were not allowed to use the hookah anymore.

 

People with a lot to lose do stupid things all the time. I know people with security clearances who have done really stupid things and lost those clearances which mean they lose their jobs, but they still did them knowing they were risking their jobs. Don't think that people don't risk licenses and careers all the time. They do one stupid thing that they know is wrong, but they do it anyway.

 

Some people keep talking about innocent til proven guilty, etc, but no one was arrested. The reasons they were denied reboarding don't have to be that they were convicted of anything. It just has to be a decision based on what was known at the time. The Captain is ultimately responsible for the ship and those onboard and the reality is he can remove anyone he wants for any reason. This story is a first on CC, so maybe everyone needs to realize that maybe, just maybe, there were very good reasons for what resulted? There's too many people muddying the discussion with rum runners, cigarettes, etc. None of those have anything to do with this issue.

[Cruising89143]

IMO, the bottom line isn't so much about the legality of substance itself, but more about the husband being labeled as "high risk." Once that was even remotely considered, all of their rights to cruise went poof. I'm really VERY okay with the Captain having the right to make that call and act on it - whether or not the person in question actually had ill-intentions or not. It's like joking around about bombs in an airport - you just don't do it without possibly dire consequences.

 

I don't think any of us has enough of the details to know what the original intent was, or the specific actions of those involved. I'd like to give the OP and spouse the benefit of the doubt and chalk this whole incident up to some really bad judgement and decisions - from concealing a suspicious looking substance, to bringing it under a bright spotlight in the forums. I do sympathize with them for missing their cruise, but I just don't see how they have a leg to stand on legally.

 

I wonder if the OP had gone to RCI and had actually given them time to work on this before posting it on CC she might have had a better resolution? By coming here and making RCI look like the bad guy and omitting an important part of the story probably ticked off the cruise line.

[Rockfordcruiser]

People with a lot to lose do stupid things all the time. I know people with security clearances who have done really stupid things and lost those clearances which mean they lose their jobs, but they still did them knowing they were risking their jobs. Don't think that people don't risk licenses and careers all the time. They do one stupid thing that they know is wrong, but they do it anyway.

 

These people wouldn't work for the secret service would they? lol

[wreckem2013]

People with a lot to lose do stupid things all the time. I know people with security clearances who have done really stupid things and lost those clearances which mean they lose their jobs, but they still did them knowing they were risking their jobs. Don't think that people don't risk licenses and careers all the time. They do one stupid thing that they know is wrong, but they do it anyway.

 

A large number of professionals such as Dr's, Lawyers, and people on Wall Street do massive amounts of cocaine. If they get caught, they lose everything. They are just smart enough to not get caught, which is pretty easy since rarely are professionals drug tested regularly/at all.

[johneeo]

What laws was he not in abidance with?

 

I did not say that.

 

I simply made the point that the CAPTAIN IS NOT GOD as some have asserted a number of times.

 

This is beyond absurd that some of the posters here sincerely believe that.

 

Incredibly pathetic.

[wayne_trisha]

A hookah pipe and water bong are two different things. A water bong cannot smoke shisha. A hookah pipe can smoke shisha and can also be modified by attachment to smoke pot. They require different types of bowls to smoke because pot is dry and is is burnt by fire, shisha is wet and is smoldered by coals.

 

You aren't going to be allowed to take a hookah pipe on a ship(or inside most hotels for that matter) just because they are a fire hazard.

 

Well it was 20 years ago and I lived in a tent in the Saudi Arabian desert for 6 monhts. We bought tobacco and the damned pipe to smoke it. All I remember is that it was f'in hilarious when someone in authority thought we were smoking dope when it was a pipe and tobacco we bought on base in the store. The tobacco was hubbly bubbly. at least I do remember that.

[Aquahound]

I think you speak with knowledge and experience on these matters and I am respectful of your opinion.

 

Do you think if the bag of smoking material was large enough they might have held them for further lab testing?

 

Many people speak of a dry run. Do you really think that someone with a federal firearms dealer license would risk losing that license over the amount of marijuana that would fit in a shaving can? How much dope can you cram into that can? And if it is a supposed dry run, does anyone really think the marijuana from the caribbean is that much better and worth losing a federal firearms license over?

 

I know people, even very smart ones, do incredibly dumb acts because they think they can get away with it. I personally beleive the husband didn't want to explain his perfectly legal tobacco to some over zealous security who may not know what it is. I once got yelled at for smoking a hookah with some friends. We were deployed to Saudi Arabia and bought the pipe (water bong) and tobacco right on base, all completely legal, but it certainly does not look legal. We were not allowed to use the hookah anymore.

 

Thank you...and I respect you and anyone else who can express an opinion respectfully.

 

With regard to further lab testing, we are not sure that isn't happening. It may very well be. However, unless the Florida FDLE lab has changed recently, the results won't come anytime soon.

 

I would like to think a firearms dealer would not do this. However, every career field has its bad apples (including law enforcement). Heck, we don't even know that's what he is. He could just work there. It's yet another thing we are taking at face value.

 

You want to know what really sucks? I have the contacts with both PC and RCI to find out exactly what happened. But to do so would be abusing my powers as a LEO since it would be for personal reasons....and I am not one of those bad apples. ;)

[Big_G]

I think you speak with knowledge and experience on these matters and I am respectful of your opinion.

 

Do you think if the bag of smoking material was large enough they might have held them for further lab testing?

 

Many people speak of a dry run. Do you really think that someone with a federal firearms dealer license would risk losing that license over the amount of marijuana that would fit in a shaving can? How much dope can you cram into that can? And if it is a supposed dry run, does anyone really think the marijuana from the caribbean is that much better and worth losing a federal firearms license over?

 

I know people, even very smart ones, do incredibly dumb acts because they think they can get away with it. I personally beleive the husband didn't want to explain his perfectly legal tobacco to some over zealous security who may not know what it is. I once got yelled at for smoking a hookah with some friends. We were deployed to Saudi Arabia and bought the pipe (water bong) and tobacco right on base, all completely legal, but it certainly does not look legal. We were not allowed to use the hookah anymore.

 

There we go attacking security again. They probably make just over poverty level and have to deal with stupid people like the husband on a daily basis. But it's their fault because they're 'overzealous' right?

 

contract law

 

I'm pretty sure the contract covers the Captain's decision.

[Langley Cruisers]

...By coming here and making RCI look like the bad guy and omitting an important part of the story probably ticked off the cruise line.

 

Possibly but I don't know... something tells me RCI can take care of themselves, though. *shrug* ;)

[johneeo]

Uh, yea you did.

 

UH, no I did not.

[smoosh21]

anyone on here who is siding with royal on this needs to give their head a shake!

 

both side left details out and or lied about details

 

final report seems to state the contents were legal to have.

 

 

 

the whole thing smells of poor comunication and big power trip!

 

:mad:

 

 

I agree. From the latest news it does seem that Royal is not telling the truth either. And while the OP didn't tell the full truth about how stupid their actions were, Royal has a lot more to lose in the long run.

 

Royal is penny wise and pound foolish by taking such a hard stance and refusing to credit back the $3000. The bad publicity they are getting is costing them much more than that. I am trying to get some friends to join us on a cruise and they read this and it makes them wonder how Royal treats it customers. So Royal may be losing out on gaining some new customers.

 

This new thread is already several hundred posts long. It appears that it is not just going to go away. Royal has gone and made a big mess for themselves.

[BND]

These people wouldn't work for the secret service would they? lol

 

Nope:D Fed Gov, yes, but SS, no. I see these cases because of my job. It's not something a lot of people are ever aware of.

[Cruising89143]

Possibly but I don't know... something tells me RCI can take care of themselves, though. *shrug* ;)

 

I'm sure they can but when you're trying to get your cruise fare returned the last thing you want to do is tick them off.

[Langley Cruisers]

I'm sure they can but when you're trying to get your cruise fare returned the last thing you want to do is tick them off.

 

Indeed. :)

[iwannacruznow]

Sue away. RCCL will file for (and receive) an immediate dismissal based on the contract we all agreed to to submit disputes to arbitration. Then she will be out not just her fare, but the filing and attorney fees.

Not sure about this. If they can prove that RCCL acted in a negligent way then they can collect.Maybe even punitive damages. Witch is something RCCL really would want to avoid. I think I would find a atty. that would take it pro bono.

[room010]

As usual, the devil is in the detail.

 

So the "pipe" was a hookah and the "tobacco" was concealed in a spray can? Duh. Game over.

 

(No, I haven't read the whole thread)

[Aquahound]

Nope:D Fed Gov, yes, but SS, no. I see these cases because of my job. It's not something a lot of people are ever aware of.

 

Yep. Just incarcerated someone with a TS-SCI clearance. It never ceases to amaze me what some people will do to throw away a 6 figure salary.

[richardb]

UH, no I did not.

 

Go back and re-read your post 289 on page 15. That is EXACTLY what you said.

[BND]

Yep. Just incarcerated someone with a TS-SCI clearance. It never ceases to amaze me what some people will do to throw away a 6 figure salary.

 

I saw someone just this week get walked out and that individual also had those tickets and a six figure salary too. It's amazing how many people hit their 40's and decide they have to try pot. Really? You couldn't have done that in college?

 

Maybe my experience is why I questioned this story from the beginning. A thorough investigation looks at all sides.

[kccrzr]

Clearly OP's husband exercised very poor (or no) judgment and engaged in suspicious activity. However, according to the RCI spokesperson, the reason for denial of boarding was possession of material which tested positive as a controlled substance in a field test - not because of the pipe and not because of the can with the false bottom.

 

Although a captain clearly has actual authority to deny boarding that does not mean that the decision was allowed under the contract. There is an issue of fact regarding whether there was a breach by OP's husband of the contract. Although the original field test was positive, subsequent testing was that it was not a controlled substance but according to police RCI still denied boarding. Being a "risk" is not the same as actually having breached the contract by possessing a controlled substance. Given the paucity of info from RCI, it is likely there is more to their side of the story as well and odds are, not all in favor of its breach of contract justification.

 

Reasonable minds can disagree on whether the right decision was made. RCI may be denying payment because it thinks that supports the captain in exercising judgment. However, I do not think this is a slam dunk case of contract breach based on what has been said by RCI as to the reason for denial and the contrary test results, police report and statements from the police.

[Cruising89143]

 

According to you, the captain, if he so desires could have executed the perps and tossed their bodies at sea.

 

I guess you did.

[wayne_trisha]

People with a lot to lose do stupid things all the time. I know people with security clearances who have done really stupid things and lost those clearances which mean they lose their jobs, but they still did them knowing they were risking their jobs. Don't think that people don't risk licenses and careers all the time. They do one stupid thing that they know is wrong, but they do it anyway.

 

Some people keep talking about innocent til proven guilty, etc, but no one was arrested. The reasons they were denied reboarding don't have to be that they were convicted of anything. It just has to be a decision based on what was known at the time. The Captain is ultimately responsible for the ship and those onboard and the reality is he can remove anyone he wants for any reason. This story is a first on CC, so maybe everyone needs to realize that maybe, just maybe, there were very good reasons for what resulted? There's too many people muddying the discussion with rum runners, cigarettes, etc. None of those have anything to do with this issue.

 

I have held a security clearance for 24 years now. I have seen people do some really sutpid stuff, some of if is simply boggles the mind. It certainly appears it was a rather dumb move to hide the smoking material along with a pipe. Why he did it, we do not know.

 

I agree the captain can remove anyone he wants. Absolutely. But the captain's actions might violate a contract without cause. The CC story is already suspect on the part of RCCL. They told CC it was illegal and destroyed yet that is contested by someon (whoever it was) and backed up by the police report.

 

I personally beleive it was miscommunication on the security people to the captain. Refund them, give them a nice free cruise, and a happy ending for both.

[iwannacruznow]

Did anyone notice one of flavors of halo hooka

 

Carnival candy