Anyone know about the Jones Act maritime law??

[pops72106]

booked a carnival cruise leaving from New orleans for 7 days ending up in san juan and then booked a cruise leaving san juan for 8 and ending up in miami...carnival says i might be in violation of the jones act...I dont understand how it would be a violation if I disembark in san juan and then embark the same day ?????

[firefly333]

I have seen posts from others they were not allowed to book that B2B ... how did you manage to book it?

 

Yes, I have read on here it is in violation, that particular cruise you mentioned. If they dont cancel it .. you might get by with just paying a fine of $300.

 

I have the same problem with the B2B, the last cruise to alaska, and then the repo to calif via hawaii .. thats why those two are now 2 weeks apart on my signature. (the 2 I wanted first one ends on vancouver and the next one starts in vancouver.. canada is not a distant foreign port).

 

Im curious how you managed to book what others were not allowed?

[pops72106]

I booked thru discover as 2 seperate cruises with seperate deposits

[Bunkie103]

Carnival appears to allow people to book but eventually cancels the second portion. Happened to someone who was supposed to cruise to Alaska with us last year AFTER having done the Hawaii cruise. They did reimburse him for airfare he had purchased. I would try a search for Jones Act and see what you come up with. We had thought about doing that cruise also with the B2B but changed our mind.

[firefly333]

I booked thru discover as 2 seperate cruises with seperate deposits

 

Probably the TA doesnt know the law .. but if you are ok with getting charged the fee if its not cancelled .. you are probably ok.

 

I offered to pay the $300 but could not get Carnival to agree and my TA would not book it that way unless I got Carnival to agree, unforunately he did know the law.

 

I would have rather paid the $300 and not have to fly there twice, as two separate cruises.

[pops72106]

I read where puerto rico is excluded if a US vessel dosent offer the same trip....

 

A reader paying careful attention at this point might say, "Hey, I can think of some cruises that don't fit into those exemptions." Well, that's because we haven't got to two more rules:

 

* The US Virgin Islands are presently exempt from the regulations, and may be treated as though its ports were "nearby foreign ports."

* Travel between the US mainland and Puerto Rico is allowed, provided that no eligible US vessel offers such service

 

The penalty for breaching the rules is a fine of $200 per passenger, even if the ship breaks the rules because of some emergency.

[firefly333]

I booked thru discover as 2 seperate cruises with seperate deposits

 

btw there is no other way to book two separate cruises, other than booking them as two separate cruises with 2 deposits .. so what you said above is a given .. its always true .. no matter if its a B2B, its always treated as 2 separate cruises.

 

there would be no other way to book 2 separate cruises.

 

I did see posts on CC that others wanted to book the cruise B2B you booked and were told no, it was no allowed.... so if you are ok with the chance of being cancelled last minute .. Keep it .. maybe no one will notice until you are on the ship and you would just then be charged the fine, but be allowed to board.

[Yazoo cruiser]

My wife tried to book these same 2 cruises last week with our PVP we have been using for years. The first words out of her mouth" you cannot due that beecause of the Jones act". I have studied it and still don't understand it because you get off in San Juan before returning to Miami. My wife even e mailed John Heald to ask and he haid the same reply.

[Paul Bogle]

This situation happens every year when the Alaska ships repo to Mexico via Hawaii. Someone always books the last Alaska cruise and the repo to Hawaii. When the cruise line catches the booking they force a choice of one or the other. They cannot knowingly book both.

 

The most likely thing that will happen in this case is the cruise line will catch the B2B bookings and ask you to choose one or the other. If they fail to catch it they will be fined $300 and they will pass the fine along to you via your ship board account.

[Paul Bogle]

My wife tried to book these same 2 cruises last week with our PVP we have been using for years. The first words out of her mouth" you cannot due that beecause of the Jones act". I have studied it and still don't understand it because you get off in San Juan before returning to Miami. My wife even e mailed John Heald to ask and he haid the same reply.

 

It may be two different cruises to you me and the cruise line but to the federal government all that matters is where you first got on the ship and where you last departed the ship. As far as the feds are concerned you booked passage on the Carnival Conquest from New Orleans to Miami. Carnival cannot offer this cruise without stopping in a "distant foreign port" like Aruba. The only reason cruise lines can offer a cruise that ends in San Juan is due to a specific exemption for Puerto Rico.

[EddieCruzer]

I read where puerto rico is excluded if a US vessel dosent offer the same trip....

 

A reader paying careful attention at this point might say, "Hey, I can think of some cruises that don't fit into those exemptions." Well, that's because we haven't got to two more rules:

 

* The US Virgin Islands are presently exempt from the regulations, and may be treated as though its ports were "nearby foreign ports."

* Travel between the US mainland and Puerto Rico is allowed, provided that no eligible US vessel offers such service

 

The penalty for breaching the rules is a fine of $200 per passenger, even if the ship breaks the rules because of some emergency.

 

Yes, this is the case. I recently cruised from SJU to NY without issue.

[zqvol]

Yes, this is the case. I recently cruised from SJU to NY without issue.

 

 

Right but the OP is doing New Orleans to Miami, via San Juan and that is a violation. Everyone can throw out all the arguments they want about why ti is OK, why it should be OK, etc., but the bottom line is that the proposed two cruises is a violation and will not be allowed.

[Paul Bogle]

I see the San Juan to Miami is an 8 day itinerary. Carnival could have offered a nice 8 day sailing from San Juan that stopped in Aruba. Had they had the wisdom to do so this whole problem would be moot.

[CruisefromNY]

I tried to book this B2B but was not able to. Too bad, Carnival really dropped the ball on this one.

[LHP]

To be specific....it is the Passenger Vessel Services Act of 1886 (yes, 1886) that was an addendum to the Jones Act. The Jones Act technically deals with cargo and is therefore can not be touched.

 

However the PVSA could easily be revolked if we could get anyone to listen.

 

I have contacted Federal Representatives from the West Coast, Southern States and the East coast.....because this could generate some much needed interest in short cruises for ports like Mobile....

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I still don't know how Disney got away with it at the beginning of this year's Alaska season.

 

Bill

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tutankhamen]

Ok, what am I missing. I thought the law was you could not cruise a foreign flagged ship from one port to another without stopping in a foreign port.

 

If this is true, and the two sailings the OP is discussing, stop in foregn ports, how is that in violation of the Jones act?

[ohiogymrat]

Ok, what am I missing. I thought the law was you could not cruise a foreign flagged ship from one port to another without stopping in a foreign port.

 

If this is true, and the two sailings the OP is discussing, stop in foregn ports, how is that in violation of the Jones act?

 

This might help clear things up for you

 

From Carnival FAQ

http://www.carnival.com/Funville/blogs/faqs/archive/2012/06/12/what-are-the-jones-act-and-cabotage-laws.aspx

Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act)

 

Federal Law prohibits ships on Non-U.S. registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S. ports. or example, you cannot board the ship in New Orleans and then debark in Tampa. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S. ports, which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships. Any guests who insists on debarking under these circumstances accepts responsibility for any and all resulting penalties.

 

NOTE: Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S. ports under this act.

 

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a "distant foreign port." South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands do not qualify as distant foreign ports.

 

Cruise Only Guests

 

Guests who do not purchase our Fly Aweigh® program will be responsible for any and all travel expenses incurred, including the $300 USD per person Jones Act fee that Carnival may incur for violating this act. Guests will be charged the fee upon boarding the ship and can pay with a credit card, cash or on their Sail & Sign card.

 

Guest Solutions or Guest Services Sailing Support must be contacted. Before meeting the ship, the guest must sign an acknowledgment letter that they would like to meet the ship at the next U.S. port and are willing to pay the fine. The signed letter will be scanned and sent to the on board Guest Services Manager along with any pertinent flight information.

 

Fly Aweigh® Guests

 

As part of our Fly Aweigh® program, Travel Services will cover the expense of the Jones Act fee $300 USD per person for our Fly Aweigh® guests.

 

When guests book Carnival's Fly Aweigh® program, they have the guarantee that should they experience a flight problem or delay along the way, Carnival will be responsible for getting them to their next destination (ship, next port-of-call or home) by securing flights, hotels and meals, when applicable, at no cost to them.

 

Cabotage Law

 

Similar to The Jones Act/the passenger Services Act, Italy's European law prohibits ships of Non-Italian registry from embarking and disembarking guests at two different Italian ports; the exception to this law is if the ship calls at a foreign port other than a non Italian port. Additionally guests are prohibited from embarking or disembarking the ship in Dubrovnik, Croatia

.

[kbmeow]

Ok, what am I missing. I thought the law was you could not cruise a foreign flagged ship from one port to another without stopping in a foreign port.

 

If this is true, and the two sailings the OP is discussing, stop in foregn ports, how is that in violation of the Jones act?

 

 

Puerto Rico is a US territory. the have representation is Washington. Not a foreign port..

[Paul Bogle]

Puerto Rico is a US territory. the have representation is Washington. Not a foreign port..

 

The Jones Act and the Passenger Vessel Services Act apply to the fifty states. US insular territories are exempt from the act and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is exempt as long as no domestic carrier is offering scheduled service between the island and the fifty states.

 

Under current circumstances ports in Puerto Rico, the US Virgin Islands, Guam, the Northern Marianas and American Samoa are treated as near foreign ports for purposes of the act.

[Tutankhamen]

But if both cruises do not violate the law, how does the combination of the 2 cruises violate the law? Unless the OP would get off one ship prior to the end of the cruise....

[govgurl]

But if both cruises do not violate the law, how does the combination of the 2 cruises violate the law? Unless the OP would get off one ship prior to the end of the cruise....

 

The law states that you cannot cruise from one US city to a different US city unless you stop in a distant foreign port. Puerto Rico is a "near foreign port", not a distant foreign port. However, Puerto Rico is not considered a US city for the purposes of this act.

 

SO, the cruise from New Orleans to San Juan doesn't violate the law because you are cruising from a US City (New Orleans) to a non-US city (San Juan). The cruise from San Juan to Miami does not violate the act because you are cruising from a non-US city (San Juan) to a US city (Miami).

 

The back to back, New Orleans - San Juan, San-Juan - Miami probably does violate the law because you are cruising from a US City, to a near foreign port (not a distant foreign port), and then back to a US city.

 

If the OP had booked this same itinerary but from, say, New Orleans to Aruba, Aruba to Miami (this probably does not exist, but as a hypothetical), she'd be in the clear, because Aruba is considered a "distant" foreign port. San Juan is not.

[Tutankhamen]

The law states that you cannot cruise from one US city to a different US city unless you stop in a distant foreign port. Puerto Rico is a "near foreign port", not a distant foreign port. However, Puerto Rico is not considered a US city for the purposes of this act.

 

SO, the cruise from New Orleans to San Juan doesn't violate the law because you are cruising from a US City (New Orleans) to a non-US city (San Juan). The cruise from San Juan to Miami does not violate the act because you are cruising from a non-US city (San Juan) to a US city (Miami).

 

The back to back, New Orleans - San Juan, San-Juan - Miami probably does violate the law because you are cruising from a US City, to a near foreign port (not a distant foreign port), and then back to a US city.

 

If the OP had booked this same itinerary but from, say, New Orleans to Aruba, Aruba to Miami (this probably does not exist, but as a hypothetical), she'd be in the clear, because Aruba is considered a "distant" foreign port. San Juan is not.

 

THANKS!! Makes perfect sense. Well, your explanation makes perfect sense.......the law, not so much.

[COMBOY]

Yes, you can not cruise B2B New Orleans to Miami via San Juan unless you stop at a distant foreign port like Aruba. You can cruise either New Orleans to San Juan or San Juan to Miami, but not both segments as B2B. I know it's strange, but that's the law. Carnival can not allow this type of booking even if you paid the $300 penalty because they would be conscientiously breaking the law, but it would still be allowed (plus $300) if had to get off the ship due to some medical or family emergency...like in Key West on a cruise from NO to San Juan. Now you could sail to San Juan, get off the ship, spend the night in a hotel and board another ship and sail to Miami. That's OK because technically your are not sailing the same ship from one US port to another US port as a B2B. It's weird because you can sail from Los Angeles to Ft Lauderdale, New York to Miami, Boston to New Orleans, Baltimore to San Diego as long as they stop in Aruba, Curacao or Bonaire or Cartegena.