Air booked through the cuise line to Europe

[Michidoeme]

And this is where you are WRONG and keep posting mis-information. A LOT of the Choice are tickets are "specially negotiated fares". They DO NOT have the same rules and regulations as published fare, airline direct tickets. But how do you know??? You CANNOT read the entire fare rules for most of the Choice Air tickets.

 

 

I asked agent at airline direct on this particular ticket with my booking code and was confirmed that exactly same rules and regulations applied to that particular rate as if I would have bought it direct. I must assume the airline agent must know the exact details about rules and regulations.

 

 

by-the-way ; I am just giving tips to people to try to look for the information themselves, not telling them that they have to book there.

I am not benefitting and not selling snake oil.

[iancal]

We recently booked flights from Europe to South Africa. We went with Qatar and Turkish.

 

When we looked at booking on Vayama , we looked at the fare code. It was very different than the fare code when booking directly with Qatar. The price was very similar BUT Qatar allowed changes, etc. for 100E. Vayama did not. Same flights, essentially the same price but very different restriction because one was probably a consolidator type fare and the other was economy restricted. On the Turkish flight, the direct booking fare code provides us with 6000 odd miles credit. The consolidator ticket that we looked at-with a different fare code-did not give us mileage. That mileage is worth about $100. to us based on how we redeem mileage points.

 

This was not the case when we booked Istanbul return tickets last year. Vayama was very, very competive and since it was one carrier all the way we selected it. We were aware that the fare code was different that going with KLM but the price delta and arriving early made it a worthwhile risk.

 

I have no doubt tha Choice Air offers a number of different fare codes on different flights. The fare code on your Choice Air ticket may be the same as a direct purchase-or it may not be. The trick is to check.

 

95 percent of cruisers will have no issues-especially if they allow some leeway and arrive a day or two early. But there are differences in the fare codes and it does pay to look at them. We are on an Air Transat flight from Toronto-Porto, Portugal. Not a great airline, a very restrictive ticket but for $258. inclusive of taxes we grabbed it since it is a direct flight. We have a week before the start of our cruise in Rome we if something untoward occurs we can recover.

 

I think the bottom line is that you need to be very aware of what you are purchasing. It is more than just a ride on a plane. The fare conditions could have an impact on your decision-as they did on ours.

[Michidoeme]

We recently booked flights from Europe to South Africa. We went with Qatar and Turkish.

 

When we looked at booking on Vayama , we looked at the fare code. It was very different than the fare code when booking directly with Qatar. The price was very similar BUT Qatar allowed changes, etc. for 100E. Vayama did not. Same flights, essentially the same price but very different restriction because one was probably a consolidator type fare and the other was economy restricted. On the Turkish flight, the direct booking fare code provides us with 6000 odd miles credit. The consolidator ticket that we looked at-with a different fare code-did not give us mileage. That mileage is worth about $100. to us based on how we redeem mileage points.

 

This was not the case when we booked Istanbul return tickets last year. Vayama was very, very competive and since it was one carrier all the way we selected it. We were aware that the fare code was different that going with KLM but the price delta and arriving early made it a worthwhile risk.

 

I have no doubt tha Choice Air offers a number of different fare codes on different flights. The fare code on your Choice Air ticket may be the same as a direct purchase-or it may not be. The trick is to check.

 

95 percent of cruisers will have no issues-especially if they allow some leeway and arrive a day or two early. But there are differences in the fare codes and it does pay to look at them. We are on an Air Transat flight from Toronto-Porto, Portugal. Not a great airline, a very restrictive ticket but for $258. inclusive of taxes we grabbed it since it is a direct flight. We have a week before the start of our cruise in Rome we if something untoward occurs we can recover.

 

I think the bottom line is that you need to be very aware of what you are purchasing. It is more than just a ride on a plane. The fare conditions could have an impact on your decision-as they did on ours.

 

That s right. There are a lot of variations. If I book a cheap, restricted ticket either direct via airline or on any engine (including Choice Air) I can not expect same conditions as for a full fare ticket. I know and accept that I will not get a refund, nor be able to rebook at all or only with costs, nor able to use it with an other airline.

[iancal]

The point that i was making is that in some cases the Choice Air price may be the same price as other avenues. This may encourage cruisers to book thru Choice Air. However, the same price ticket from another source may or may not have MUCH better fare restrictions.

 

These two tickets, although priced at the same rate, may not in fact be equal. One may be much better than the other-it could be the Choice Air ticket or the alternate ticket. Ticket price is not necessarily a reliable indicator of ticket flexibility.

 

We were stuck in Dulles two years ago coming back from P. Rico (snow storms). We either had at least a 1 1/2 day layover in Dulles or the chance of grabbing the last two seats on a United flight west to San Fran. I know that if we had a Choice Air ticket instead of a ticket direct from United, we would not have been given the last two seats on that aircraft since there were people behind us in priotity who also wanted make the flight. The Choice Air flight and the United flight were essentially the same price but the United ticket had a much higher standing in the priority list because of the better fare code.

 

Anyone booking Cruise Air should simply ask about the fare code/restrictions and then make the comparison to other options.

[FlyerTalker]

That s right. There are a lot of variations. If I book a cheap, restricted ticket either direct via airline or on any engine (including Choice Air) I can not expect same conditions as for a full fare ticket. I know and accept that I will not get a refund, nor be able to rebook at all or only with costs, nor able to use it with an other airline.

You are missing the point. Let me put it succinctly.

 

We are not talking about the comparison between a discounted ticket and a full-fare unrestricted ticket. The issue is that the discounted ticket from a consolidator, such as and including Choice Air, may very well be significantly different from a published discount fare ticket from the airline itself. Both may be non-refundable, both may be changeable only with a fee. However, the underlying rules for the conso ticket may have even more restrictions that can prove quite daunting if you have an irregular operations scenario.

 

Do you understand the concept of fare rules? Have you ever read any? This is what governs ALL aspects of your ticket, including re-issue, endorsement, routings and other factors that can be quite important in an irops situation.

 

In the most basic of terms: All discount tickets are not alike. And, unless you can bore down into the details, you won't know what you are buying. And, if you don't know what you are buying, you are simply making a decision on price, not value.

 

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with buying on price. Just be aware that you are almost certainly NOT getting what you would receive from the airline directly and that you will be more susceptible to "gotchas" in an irops situation.

 

If that is an acceptable business proposition to you, go right ahead. Remember the words, Caveat Emptor. Truer words are rarely spoken in the airline ticket game.

 

On a personal note....I suspect that you are fixated on the price aspect and have the mistaken belief that a seat is a seat, that a ticket is a ticket. Please know...that may be true for a baseball game or a Broadway play, but how/where you buy an airline ticket is MUCH MUCH different.

[Michidoeme]

I just mentioned that I had good experience with Choice Air bookings. Did not expect all the flak. This is supposed to be a forum to exchange opinions and experiences which might not always match.

 

The first time booking via Choice Air I was very suspicious with the extremely good deal for a one way which cost anywhere else at least 3 times more and therefore as soon as I had booking nr., I contacted airline (which was my home airline and where I have good contacts that know what they are talking about) and asked if there was a "catch" or difference in conditions, which they confirmed there was not with this particular ticket and with some others I had.

 

I understand that this might not always be the case and accept your warning for future bookings I make.

 

And, yes I understand fare rules and have quite some experience booking/flying professionally and privately - good and also very bad. However one is never too old to learn.

[kenish]

I just mentioned that I had good experience with Choice Air bookings. Did not expect all the flak. This is supposed to be a forum to exchange opinions and experiences which might not always match.

 

The reason for the flak was your post #24 stated that Choice Air was exactly the same as booking through the airline. Had you qualified it as "sometimes" being identical and to investigate before purchase (as you are now doing), probably not as much flak.:)

 

This isn't much different from warranty work on your car. You buy your car from the dealer and have all your service done there. I buy the same car through a broker, and an independent mechanic does my service. Our manufacturer's warranties are *identical*. There's a massive recall which leaves dealers backlogged and short of parts. Guess who's going to get faster service and higher priority in this "irregular" situation? No different from Choice Air....even if the fare codes are identical, when a flight is cancelled or the epic blizzard hits ORD the differences will start to show.

 

I think we all agree Choice Air has some caveats, it can be a good deal if the flights go off as planned, and the traveler has the time/ money/ airline savvy to absorb any problems. Devil's in the details.

[Grammyluvs]

Boy this is the snarkiest thread I have ever read. Glad I didn't have a question.

[FlyerTalker]

If presenting well-organized, factual information is "snarky", I will plead guilty. Thus:

 

Please feel free to buy your ticket from Unicorn & Rainbows Cruiseline air. There, you will ALWAYS find the cheapest pricing, routings that you like with carriers you prefer. Best of all, those tickets have none of those nasty rules against endorsement and rerouting. Plus you will have teams of agents standing by 24/7 waiting for your call should something happen. From a broken fingernail to a 747 out of fuel at 35000 feet, they will be there to move mountains to guarantee you'll make your cruise departure.

 

Have a nice day!!

[greatam]

Boy this is the snarkiest thread I have ever read. Glad I didn't have a question.

 

It only got snarky because one person kept insisting that Choice Air tickets were EXACTLY the same as those you would buy direct from the airline. That may or may not be true for SOME Choice Air tickets. But it is generally NOT true for the cheapest of the Choice Air tickets. They are "specially negotiated fares" as everyone kept trying to point out and have much more severe restrictions than airline direct tickets.

 

Ask all the questions you want-we try to be nice. But the frequent posters on this forum really, really do know their way around the airline business.

[mishdoob]

I started reading this thread, because we're beginning to plan our next cruise to Europe, and have always wondered about the advisability of including air (a la Oceania or some of the "deals" which include air), but my sense is from reading this - from people who clearly have more experience than myself - that I really should plan to book my own air, so I can have more control over it..... ?

Also, I was unaware that some times the tickets via cruise ines were "consolidator" tickets, so thank you.

[odysee]

So this would mean that Mr Troy Martin, Director of Travel Services for Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. would be lying in the above sticky on Choice Air !?

Quote : "A frequent topic on Cruise Critic is the value and challenges with Consolidator tickets/fares. Those are not available through ChoiceAir. All ChoiceAir fares carry the standard airline rules, and even the contracted ones are similar. The travelers have all of the airline and RCCL services available to them, and are subject to the airlines rules and restrictions. Troy specifically emphasized that RCCL does not use consolidator-type fares." unquote

 

Also he is very specific on the assistance Choice Air offers.

[FlyerTalker]

So this would mean that Mr Troy Martin, Director of Travel Services for Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd. would be lying in the above sticky on Choice Air !?

Let's just say that he is making a distinction without a difference. Saying that he is lying is so "rude". (And we must be polite above all else, correct?)

"A frequent topic on Cruise Critic is the value and challenges with Consolidator tickets/fares. Those are not available through ChoiceAir. All ChoiceAir fares carry the standard airline rules, and even the contracted ones are similar. The travelers have all of the airline and RCCL services available to them, and are subject to the airlines rules and restrictions. Troy specifically emphasized that RCCL does not use consolidator-type fares."

They avoid the use of "consolidator" but freely talk about "contracted". The word "contracted" is that same type of ticket as conso -- pre-contracted, in bulk, taken off the shelf as needed. And note....the fare rules are not the same, they are "similar".

 

Where I come from, this is an exercise in "weasel words", carefully crafted to imply one thing while never stating so.

Also he is very specific on the assistance Choice Air offers.

If you read closely, you will see there is lots of "maybe" in his statements - again, crafted to imply something specifically declaimed in their actual terms and conditions.

[greatam]

Flyertalker, shame on you. You didn't expound on the part of Troy's discussion where the frequent posters on this forum tried to nail him down about endorsement and re-routing.

 

We tried and tried and never did get a straight answer. As you posted, "weasel words" carefully crafted (and I would guess with the advice of the RCCI legal department) to make some believe it is all true. Here are the EXACT answers in quotes and my comments

 

"When selecting “published” fares, which are the same as those offered on the airline sites and leading travel booking sites, all of the conditions and fees are identical to those sites."

 

Pray tell, how do you tell what is a "published fare" and what is a "specially negotiated fare" on the Choice Air website? I can't see any way to distinguish the two on the Choice Air website other than the published fares are about twice the price.

 

 

 

 

"In the event of irregular operations the airlines will protect our guests on other airlines. I am aware that there is a misunderstanding that any ticket issued as “non-endorsable” (which some of our tickets are) would not be eligible."

 

Note that he kind of/sort of admits that SOME of the tickets are non-endorsable. But how would you know which ones are non-endorsable as an average consumer? You don't-that is the BIG fallacy on Choice Air-you can't see the ENTIRE fare rules and very, very often can’t even see the ENTIRE fare code to go elsewhere to read the fare rules. And frequently, there are MIXED fare codes if two or more airlines are used. In airline terms, generally the MOST strict fare rules apply to the ENTIRE flight.

 

 

 

 

 

"This is not the case. Many of the lowest published fares offered by the airlines on their own sites, or any other outlets, are considered non-endorsable and non-refundable. Today, there are relatively few “fully endorsable” fares that would be accepted as payment in full for travel on another carrier."

 

This statement is again dancing around the subject. When he added "any other outlets", he weaseled the statement about endorsability. Then he threw in non-refundable to confuse the issue further. Anyone who has ever purchased the least pricey airline ticket from ANY source knows the ticket is NON REFUNDABLE. Whether a ticket is refundable or not has NO impact on endorsability OR re-routing. So again, a very clever way to NOT answer the question.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"During disrupted schedules, airlines routinely issue new tickets, print and stamp electronic tickets, or create “Flight Interrupt Manifests” to protect travelers. All tickets issued through ChoiceAir are eligible for all of these approaches. Another important note is that, even though some of our special negotiated rates are not intended to be used on other carriers, most are fully refundable, changeable, and all are just as respected as a published fare from the carriers’ site when addressing operational issues that require passenger protection."

 

Please read and re-read the last sentence over and over. Again, the use of "specially negotiated rates" (which are the cheapest of the Choice Air tickets). Contract/bulk purchase/consolidator, whatever you want to call them-the RULES governing those type of tickets are STRICTLY between airline and the purchaser and can be ANYTHING the two parties agree to. And 95% of them contain the provisions of NO re-routing and NO endorsability to another airline.

 

Note also that he finally admits that Choice Air "specially negotiated rates" are NOT endorsable but are FULLY REFUNDABLE and CHANGEABLE. So visualize this scenario: You miss your connection to YYY or your flight is cancelled. You have no possible way to use your Choice Air ticket on another airline due to the very specific rules PROHIBITING endorsement. So you are now given the choice of getting a refund (that sure isn't any help in this situation) or you can change your ticket. The only problem is the change will probably cost you as much if not more than the original ticket and you are 1/2 way to your cruise if you missed your connection. You are essentially STUCK!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the last “gotcha” that was pointed out in the discussion on the Cruise Air forum.

 

"If you cancel the cruise and had purchased a published, non-refundable fare, we will not cancel the air, unless you call the ChoiceAir Support Desk and request that it be cancelled. That ticket is yours, and if you decide to cancel, you will retain the residual value of the ticket for future travel on that airline. If you cancel the cruise and had purchased one of our negotiated contract rates, we cancel the reservation, and refund the residual value (net of applicable penalties) to you."

 

Now the wording is "negotiated contract rates". And please note, AGAIN the issue of published fare vs "negotiated contract rates" raises its head. HOW do you know what you are buying??? How do you even find out??? Sorry, I digress. What the statement means-cancel the cruise with a PUBLISHED fare Choice Air ticket, you can use that ticket just as you would an airline purchased ticket to either fly to the same destination on the same dates with no additional fees or pay the change fee and use the residual value for another flight.

 

BUT if you have a "negotiated contract rate" Choice Air ticket, you merely get a refund less any change/cancellation fees. This is another one of the "gotchas"-no cruise, no air ticket even though you paid in full for the air ticket. Those tickets are booked under cruise/vacation package contracted rates (ANOTHER form of consolidator ticket). Something to seriously think about when purchasing air tickets for possibly "iffy" situations-Egypt/Middle East cruises come to mind or a cruise during hurricane season.

 

 

 

 

I am sure all of the frequent posters in this forum will agree with this statement: We all want you to be informed consumers. BUT there are too many who post in this forum who think the Choice Air tickets are the SAME as airline purchased, published fare tickets. While it may be the same airline, same flight #, same time, same connection, you have a PRN, you can pick you seats, it very, very well MAY NOT be the same ticket, particularly when you purchase strictly on price. The underlying FARE RULES on the cheapest of the Choice Air tickets may very well prevent you from getting to your cruise or getting home in a timely fashion if there is a glitch. PLEASE know what you are buying.

[waterbug123]

I am sure all of the frequent posters in this forum will agree with this statement: We all want you to be informed consumers. BUT there are too many who post in this forum who think the Choice Air tickets are the SAME as airline purchased, published fare tickets.

 

Unfortunately, it is not just this forum. A lot of people post in the individual cruise line forums, where they don't necessarily see the replies and explanations that some of the knowledgeable FF's in this forum are able to offer. I know the subject comes up on the Royal Caribbean forum and I'm sure others. When it does, it's like a pep rally... "yeah, we got a great rate too," "Choice Air is the best way to go," yada yada yada. I try to explain that they may be in for a surprise in the case of irops, and encourage/beg/implore them to come over to this board so they can be better informed, but most simply seem hell-bent on believing that they are getting the SAME ("I got to pick my seats and everything!!) ticket for pennies on the dollar, and refuse to believe that just might not be the case.

[odysee]

Isn't this the same issue on the other booking engines as well ?

So only if you buy directly with the airline can you be sure you have an "honest" ticket ?

[greatam]

Isn't this the same issue on the other booking engines as well ?

So only if you buy directly with the airline can you be sure you have an "honest" ticket ?

 

NOT NECESSARILY. WHAT are you looking at??? When do you need tickets? WHERE do you need tickets?

 

We are all willing to help get you the BEST price with the BEST ticket. But we all need more info to help you.

[greatam]

Unfortunately, it is not just this forum. A lot of people post in the individual cruise line forums, where they don't necessarily see the replies and explanations that some of the knowledgeable FF's in this forum are able to offer. I know the subject comes up on the Royal Caribbean forum and I'm sure others. When it does, it's like a pep rally... "yeah, we got a great rate too," "Choice Air is the best way to go," yada yada yada. I try to explain that they may be in for a surprise in the case of irops, and encourage/beg/implore them to come over to this board so they can be better informed, but most simply seem hell-bent on believing that they are getting the SAME ("I got to pick my seats and everything!!) ticket for pennies on the dollar, and refuse to believe that just might not be the case.

 

Such a shame!!! Those who BELIEVE they are getting the SAME tickets based on price when they buy the CHEAPEST tickets and think they got a BARGAIN are so SADLY mistaken. I don't frequent the other forums-I have never been on an RCCL cruise nor a Carnival cruise (well, just once in 1968 during college when Carnival was just starting and it was nothing but a huge drunk out for college students with fake ID's).

 

I CHOOSE to cruise Celebrity because of the upscale mentality (formal nights are TRULY formal nights rather than a free for all). But if Celebrity is "giving up the ghost" and not maintaining anything close to a "formal atmosphere", I will be done with X. Cunard/Seabourn, even though the cost is CONSIDERABLY more, fit my idea of a "formal vacation" much more than other cruise lines. I travel all over the world, have LITERALLY been around the world twice and the only thing I am looking for on cruise vacation is to get away from phones, faxes and computers for a few days and to have a "special experience" that I would not have in a 5* hotel in the rest of the world. You can schlepp in most any 5* hotel in the world in your khakis and a polo shirt. Really, really sad.

 

Back to the subject-there are so many people just believing what is NOT true about the cheapest of the Choice Air tickets when they purchase on price. A true shame. But one of these days there will be a HUGE post where some of the "cheerleaders" will be caught behind the 8 ball when irops are encountered with their Choice Air tickets. When will they learn???

[FlyerTalker]

Flyertalker, shame on you. You didn't expound on the part of Troy's discussion where the frequent posters on this forum tried to nail him down about endorsement and re-routing.

Properly chastened, I'll slink back to my cave.

 

Besides, you've always had the number of Choice Air and their weasel words.

 

Finally, I'm working on the kinder, gentler Mr FT. ;) Plus I ran out of blood pressure pills and needed to keep things in check.

[barante]

I sympahtize with the OP, who is trying to get useful advice. I'm not sure much is given.

 

My two experiences with cruiseline-booked air have been with Cardinal and HAL. Both worked smoothly, were priced far lower than I could find elsewhere. As to connection times, Carnival's (from SAMerica) were fine. HAL kept changing connections before the trip (to New Zealand) to make sure timing would work and we woudln't be left in a lurch. They had our interest -- and theirs -- at heart.

 

The bottom line here is that no one today can act solely on the advice of others, nor can they depend on outside ticket agencies. I say this having just bought flights from Baltimore to Shanghai and Singapore to Baltimore for a cruise that did not include cruise air among the choices. I was shocked to see how mass-market discounters were selling tickets with totally unreasonable connection times. Mostly they were so tight that any buyer would be certain to miss one or more flights. In some cases, though, they extended the flight from North America, doable in one day, to two days (necessitating an overnight hotel) without any corresponding price advantage.

 

Some posters have related horror stories involving travel agents, so they are not necessarily the answer, either. Their skill level, dedication and experience varies greatly.

 

The best thing to do -- and this is what I do -- is to develop enough expertise to be able to handle this on your own. At least one needs to know enough so that if you book through a cruise line and see unsatisfactory arrangements, you can bring those to the line's attention and insist on flight changes.

 

The same goes when dealing with a travel agent.

 

The fact that many cheap tickets, whether bought from the airline, or discounter -- now are final sales means that once you buy something, changing will be very expensive, if possible at all.

 

Cruise air changes are far easier in my experience, as long as they are done in order to reach the ship on time.

[waterbug123]

I sympahtize with the OP, who is trying to get useful advice. I'm not sure much is given.

 

My two experiences with cruiseline-booked air have been with Cardinal and HAL. Both worked smoothly, were priced far lower than I could find elsewhere.

 

At least one needs to know enough so that if you book through a cruise line and see unsatisfactory arrangements, you can bring those to the line's attention and insist on flight changes.

 

 

Cruise air changes are far easier in my experience, as long as they are done in order to reach the ship on time.

 

It has been said many times on this board in various threads that when everything goes fine (as you experienced), then in hindsight you can say, yeah, I saved money, that was a good choice. It is when things go awry that the real differences and potential downfalls in cruise air become apparent.

 

Being able to adjust the schedule or make changes ahead of time is one thing. Getting appropriately re-accommodated on the day of travel when flights are disrupted is quite another.

[iancal]

We like to know what we are buying. I think that most comments simply relate to that. Know what you are buying, then make a choice that suits your requirements.

 

But there is absolutely no question that we will, and have, fly on a restricted ticket if the price 'right', if the flight/connection is a good one, if we have a little extra time built in as a cushion.

 

We did in fact select a Toronto-Porto, Portugal flight that is very restricted. We know the risks. But the price, the fact that it is a direct flight, and the fact that a delay of a day or two would not cause us grief. Taking all that into account, the $258. fare, including taxes, was a bargain.

[Lisah101]

We like to know what we are buying. I think that most comments simply relate to that. Know what you are buying, then make a choice that suits your requirements.

 

But there is absolutely no question that we will, and have, fly on a restricted ticket if the price 'right', if the flight/connection is a good one, if we have a little extra time built in as a cushion.

 

We did in fact select a Toronto-Porto, Portugal flight that is very restricted. We know the risks. But the price, the fact that it is a direct flight, and the fact that a delay of a day or two would not cause us grief. Taking all that into account, the $258. fare, including taxes, was a bargain.

 

Wow.... Where did you get that airfare? I'd go to Porto for that!!

[greatam]

 

The best thing to do -- and this is what I do -- is to develop enough expertise to be able to handle this on your own. At least one needs to know enough so that if you book through a cruise line and see unsatisfactory arrangements, you can bring those to the line's attention and insist on flight changes.

 

 

As the frequent posters on this forum have tried to point out repeatedly, the downsides of a heavily restricted ticket have NOTHING to do with "unsatisfactory arrangements", short connections, seat assignments or anything other than WHAT HAPPENS IF THERE IS A PROBLEM while you are in-transit. And that is the bottom line.

 

Will your ticket ALLOW you to be re-routed or can your ticket be used on another airline if you miss your connection or your flight is cancelled? All in the fare rules. And if you can't read the ENTIRE fare rules or see the ENTIRE fare code so you can read the fare rules someplace else, you really, really have NO IDEA what you are buying. You may have opened yourself up to deep disappointment and possibly a missed cruise/vacation/important business meeting/wedding, etc. etc.

 

Barante:

 

To solve the short connection problem, instead of just typing into a search engine BWI/PVG (where you KNOW there is a connection someplace) and accepting that is the only option, look at what the search engine initially gives you. Then go to the airline website and find a connecting flight (in your case, most likely BWI/EWR, BWI/JFK, BWI/ORD or some other MAJOR international gateway) to give you a longer connection time. Then try to "force" the connection you want. You generally have to use the search by schedule feature but can get the connection you want and about 85-90% of the time at the price you originally saw.

[barante]

When I repeatedly complained about unrealistically short connection times, that had nothing to do with my attempts to fly from Baltimore to Shanghai and from Singapore to Baltimore. I bought those tickets from Delta for a fair price and with as fast connections through Detroit as any airline offers.

 

Instead, I was appalled that major discounters are pushing connecting morning rush-hour flights through EWR (Newark) or ORD (Chicago) with less than an hour to change planes. I know better than buy such tickets but many others, looking strictly at the price, may not.

 

Similarly, I was appalled to see that low prices masked a costly disadvantage -- that you might have to have an overnight hotel stay in order to make a connection. That would extend the trip over two days when many equally cheap flights would only involve an overnight flight.

 

So what am I saying? That you should have enough interest and knowledge to know what choices are being made for you by you, a travel agent or a cruise line. Precautions must be taken to prevent problems. Dscounters, in particular, seem only intersted in selling you a ticket, knowing that what happens after that is your problem.